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Holik Ready to Help Renney

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07-07-2004, 03:48 AM
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BwayBshirt
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Holik Ready to Help Renney

http://www.nypost.com/sports/rangers/26887.htm

extremely encouraging words from our soon-to-be Captain...bravo

although that last line could understandably scare the hell out of us

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07-07-2004, 08:25 AM
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Sather yesterday said he'd spoken casually to Mark Messier a couple of weeks ago and that the 42-year-old center's status "remains status quo." That means Messier is keeping open the option of returning for another season, and Sather has been unwilling to eliminate that option.

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07-07-2004, 08:27 AM
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I've heard encouraging words...

from Holik in the past...proof is in the pudding. He hasn't helped jack yet. I think the reason why he likes Renney is Renney will play him with Jagr on a top line as opposed to a checking line with checkers, which was the reason he came to New York.

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07-07-2004, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
from Holik in the past...proof is in the pudding. He hasn't helped jack yet. I think the reason why he likes Renney is Renney will play him with Jagr on a top line as opposed to a checking line with checkers, which was the reason he came to New York.
I was under the impression that Holik doesn't WANT to be on a line with Jagr because their styles don't mesh. I thought that was one of his big complaints toward the end of last season.

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07-07-2004, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
from Holik in the past...proof is in the pudding. He hasn't helped jack yet. I think the reason why he likes Renney is Renney will play him with Jagr on a top line as opposed to a checking line with checkers, which was the reason he came to New York.
i don't think that's the reason at all...trottier played holik on the top line a lot and look what happened. it's not like holik ever endorsed trottier the way he has renney. when holik came to the rangers, he knew they were planning to make him a 2nd line center. i seriously doubt he ever thought they'd thrust him onto the top line.

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07-07-2004, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch
from Holik in the past...proof is in the pudding. He hasn't helped jack yet. I think the reason why he likes Renney is Renney will play him with Jagr on a top line as opposed to a checking line with checkers, which was the reason he came to New York.
Agreed. Actions speak louder than words and all Holik has done since he signed here is yak, yak, yak.

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07-07-2004, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MyCaptain11
i don't think that's the reason at all...trottier played holik on the top line a lot and look what happened. it's not like holik ever endorsed trottier the way he has renney. when holik came to the rangers, he knew they were planning to make him a 2nd line center. i seriously doubt he ever thought they'd thrust him onto the top line.
they planned from the get go to use him on the 2nd line?? Why? Doesn't anyone understand he is a Checking line center...He SHUTS DOWN other scoring lines, he is not PART OF a scoring line.

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07-07-2004, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20
they planned from the get go to use him on the 2nd line?? Why? Doesn't anyone understand he is a Checking line center...He SHUTS DOWN other scoring lines, he is not PART OF a scoring line.
This is the Rangers' pattern. Take people who excel (or are at least competent) in a certain role, overpay them, and put them in a different role for which they are ill-suited. You don't win by picking off other teams' stellar 3rd line centers and making them second line centers.

The same thing happened to Sylvain Lefebvre, who we criminally misused. He was a steady #5/6 dman his entire career, and we moved him into the top 3 or 4 and were very disappointed that he didn't have more of an impact.

See also Greg DeVries. See also Brian Skrudland. See also Mike Keane. These guys weren't bad players. They were just used wrong, and often given more responsibility than they had ever had before.

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07-07-2004, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
This is the Rangers' pattern. Take people who excel (or are at least competent) in a certain role, overpay them, and put them in a different role for which they are ill-suited. You don't win by picking off other teams' stellar 3rd line centers and making them second line centers.

The same thing happened to Sylvain Lefebvre, who we criminally misused. He was a steady #5/6 dman his entire career, and we moved him into the top 3 or 4 and were very disappointed that he didn't have more of an impact.

See also Greg DeVries. See also Brian Skrudland. See also Mike Keane. These guys weren't bad players. They were just used wrong, and often given more responsibility than they had ever had before.
Yep, i completely agree...completely insane what they do. and insane that some people on here feel it's ok to play the guy on a top line.

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07-07-2004, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20
Yep, i completely agree...completely insane what they do. and insane that some people on here feel it's ok to play the guy on a top line.
Well, Holik has been a pretty steady scorer his whole career, but he has NEVER been a playmaker. He's a guy who shuts down the opposing line while pitching in some goals, particularly on the PP. He doesn't really run an offense. He's more of a park-in-front-of-the-net or shoot off of the rush type. It's not like he has no offensive skills. He just doesn't fit, style-wise, on an offensive line. He's a counter-attacker with the added bonus of having skills valuable to a powerplay. Which is why he's particularly ill-suited to center Jagr. Their styles don't compliment one another. Jagr is about puck-control. Holik is more about bum-rushing the goalie. He doesn't really make OTHER players better.

I mean, you're right to say that Holik shouldn't be our first line center, but he is a fairly good offensive player. One thing that putting Holik in this kind of role does, is it limits Holik's abilities. His strength is in making life miserable for his opposing center. He's not a guy who should be counted on to cover-up other people's mistakes. He's a guy who has to have people cover up his mistakes so he can take liberties with opposing players.

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07-07-2004, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
Well, Holik has been a pretty steady scorer his whole career, but he has NEVER been a playmaker. He's a guy who shuts down the opposing line while pitching in some goals, particularly on the PP. He doesn't really run an offense. He's more of a park-in-front-of-the-net or shoot off of the rush type. It's not like he has no offensive skills. He just doesn't fit, style-wise, on an offensive line. He's a counter-attacker with the added bonus of having skills valuable to a powerplay. Which is why he's particularly ill-suited to center Jagr. Their styles don't compliment one another. Jagr is about puck-control. Holik is more about bum-rushing the goalie. He doesn't really make OTHER players better.

I mean, you're right to say that Holik shouldn't be our first line center, but he is a fairly good offensive player. One thing that putting Holik in this kind of role does, is it limits Holik's abilities. His strength is in making life miserable for his opposing center. He's not a guy who should be counted on to cover-up other people's mistakes. He's a guy who has to have people cover up his mistakes so he can take liberties with opposing players.
The guy is at his best when he is shutting down the opposing teams top line...so why not use him in that role? he may have some offensive skill, but why not use him at what he does best?

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07-07-2004, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20
The guy is at his best when he is shutting down the opposing teams top line...so why not use him in that role? he may have some offensive skill, but why not use him at what he does best?
After listening to Renney on 1050 ESPN Radio, it sounds like that's what he plans to do.

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07-07-2004, 06:57 PM
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"We're continuing with the plan we established in the spring," Sather said yesterday. "We're building an enthusiastic, youthful organization."
:gman:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej20
The guy is at his best when he is shutting down the opposing teams top line...so why not use him in that role? he may have some offensive skill, but why not use him at what he does best?
Because that wouldn't be logical lol.

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07-07-2004, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Balej20
they planned from the get go to use him on the 2nd line?? Why? Doesn't anyone understand he is a Checking line center...He SHUTS DOWN other scoring lines, he is not PART OF a scoring line.
i should have said 2nd-3rd line to be honest. sorry for that little omission on my part. bottom line is, we all agree he's not a true no. 1 line player and he knew it when he came over. he never expected to be pushed onto a top line and when a guy like trottier did it holik never once embraced the concept publicly, which shows he didn't just come over for more "ice time"

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07-07-2004, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MyCaptain11
i should have said 2nd-3rd line to be honest. sorry for that little omission on my part. bottom line is, we all agree he's not a true no. 1 line player and he knew it when he came over. he never expected to be pushed onto a top line and when a guy like trottier did it holik never once embraced the concept publicly, which shows he didn't just come over for more "ice time"
The thing i have a problem with is not just Trottier throwing him on the top line, but where is sather? Sather is the guy who got Holik, why isn't Sather going down to Trottier and telling him to take him off the top line?

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