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04-03-2011, 12:51 PM
  #51
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Looks like he found a way.
And defied the laws of physics along the way...

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I do understand it, which is why I agreed. You could use a little less condescension in your posts, Jig, especially when you interpret the tone incorrectly.
I thought I was being pretty nice...

No home slice references - check
No references about not playing hockey - check

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Neal does often use a true wrist shot - as do a fair number of pros, and there's no shortage of scouting reports to support that position.
Not exactly, but we'll agree to disagree.

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But Neal also takes forever to load it up, which is the point of this thread. If what he's shown of it in Pittsburgh is indicative of what he'll do with it moving forward, he'd do well to take more snap shots, like you're suggesting.
When he is pressing the defender back, he does in fact load up a true wrist shot from 25+ feet out, we agree on that. He could snap the puck... slap it... drop kick... whatever... but he isn't going to score with any shot on a regular basis from that distance.

As I said if you can reference anytime he has been given the puck in the slot or above/inside the circles where he can snap off the puck, don't hesitate to refresh my memory.... because I can't think of any.

Or even any one time chances aside from the faceoff win I mentioned a few posts ago...

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04-03-2011, 12:57 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
And defied the laws of physics along the way...
Are Jiggy physics like Pronger physics?

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I thought I was being pretty nice...

No home slice references - check
No references about not playing hockey - check
I do play hockey. I just never had the resources growing up to play organized hockey. It happens.

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Not exactly, but we'll agree to disagree.
Check the stats.

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When he is pressing the defender back, he does in fact load up a true wrist shot from 25+ feet out, we agree on that. He could snap the puck... slap it... drop kick... whatever... but he isn't going to score with any shot on a regular basis from that distance.
Then he needs to find a better option. I say that as a card-carrying Neal-supporter.

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As I said if you can reference anytime he has been given the puck in the slot or above/inside the circles where he can snap off the puck, don't hesitate to refresh my memory.... because I can't think of any.

Or even any one time chances aside from the faceoff win I mentioned a few posts ago...
Like I said earlier, I agree that he'll need Crosby/Malkin to maximize his skillset. Playing with two slow guys like Kovy/Tube isn't doing him any favours.

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04-03-2011, 12:57 PM
  #53
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Turns out there is a site that keeps track. And it looks like pros use wrist shots much more frequently than you suggest:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_shot_...19+20+21+22+23

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_shot_...24+25+26+27+28
You can't be desperate enough to be using a site like that as a reference... go check the whois dns information...

TK is credited with 30 snap shots the entire season... gold.

Be real CW.

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04-03-2011, 01:00 PM
  #54
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Are Jiggy physics like Pronger physics?
Been watching too much Mythbusters bro...

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I do play hockey. I just never had the resources growing up to play organized hockey. It happens.
No shame in that.

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Check the stats.
You mean those "official stats" from the expert site you referenced?

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Then he needs to find a better option. I say that as a card-carrying Neal-supporter.
17 games and one goal... probably right.

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Playing with two slow guys like Kovy/Tube isn't doing him any favours.
Probably not.

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04-03-2011, 01:01 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You can't be desperate enough to be using a site like that as a reference... go check the whois dns information...

TK is credited with 30 snap shots the entire season... gold.

Be real CW.
?

And no, it's not desperation. It's a site that meticulously keeps track of these sorts of things. Maybe you should argue your definition of a wrist/snap shot with them.

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04-03-2011, 01:05 PM
  #56
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
?

And no, it's not desperation. It's a site that meticulously keeps track of these sorts of things. Maybe you should argue your definition of a wrist/snap shot with them.
2m Alexa rank... less than 3 real time visitors a day...

Legit site. *cough*

Where did you dig that up?

I don't have to argue with them... seeing TK credited with 30 snap shots this season is all I need to know it is bogus.

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04-03-2011, 01:10 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
2m Alexa rank... less than 3 real time visitors a day...

Legit site. *cough*

Where did you dig that up?

I don't have to argue with them... seeing TK credited with 30 snap shots this season is all I need to know it is bogus.
behindthenet is pretty much the standard for advanced statistics. I take issue with some of the conclusions they draw from their data, but I don't see much reason to doubt the data itself.

If you can find a more legitimate site with this sort of info, I'll gladly dump mine and switch over. If not, it looks like either players use the wrister more often than you suggest, or your definition deviates from behindthenet's.

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04-03-2011, 01:11 PM
  #58
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I have no horse in this race, but BTN is a terrific site.

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04-03-2011, 02:22 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
behindthenet is pretty much the standard for advanced statistics. I take issue with some of the conclusions they draw from their data.

If you can find a more legitimate site with this sort of info, I'll gladly dump mine and switch over. If not, it looks like either players use the wrister more often than you suggest, or your definition deviates from behindthenet's.
If you want to believe a site that is stating TK has taken 30 snap shots this season, by all means do so.

I guarantee you he has taken 30 snap shots just in the last month, if not more because that is his primary shot.

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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
but I don't see much reason to doubt the data itself
How about the fact that Crosby is credited with 16 snapshots this season and he had 161 shots on goal... that doesn't strike you as odd?

All Crosby uses is a snapshot... good luck finding a clip of him using the wrist shot.

So basically Crosby and TK this season have taken a combined 46 snapshots out of 386 shots, even though their primary shot is a snapshot...

And you actually believe this data? Really?


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 04-03-2011 at 02:55 PM.
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04-03-2011, 03:03 PM
  #60
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I have never been a huge fan of that site.

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04-03-2011, 03:13 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
If you want to believe a site that is stating TK has taken 30 snap shots this season, by all means do so.

I guarantee you he has taken 30 snap shots just in the last month, if not more because that is his primary shot.



How about the fact that Crosby is credited with 16 snapshots this season and he had 161 shots on goal... that doesn't strike you as odd?

All Crosby uses is a snapshot... good luck finding a clip of him using the wrist shot.

So basically Crosby and TK this season have taken a combined 46 snapshots out of 386 shots, even though their primary shot is a snapshot...

And you actually believe this data? Really?
It looks like there's some discrepancy in definition. I'd be interested to know how yours and theirs differ...many of the shots probably fall into a sort of grey area like the one you and I disagreed on, and they lean towards my interpretation.

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04-03-2011, 03:37 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
It looks like there's some discrepancy in definition. I'd be interested to know how yours and theirs differ...many of the shots probably fall into a sort of grey area like the one you and I disagreed on, and they lean towards my interpretation.
I have no idea how they conclude their data, but any site telling me that Crosby took 16 snapshots this season isn't one I'd use to back up my argument.

Again, many people see a snapshot and think it is a wrist shot.

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04-03-2011, 04:31 PM
  #63
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Neal is being counted on as a primary source for scoring and thats not his role. He's a secondary scorer and when crosby and malkin return he will fit in much better, less pressure and more space

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04-03-2011, 04:40 PM
  #64
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Just to weigh in on the "snap shot" vs wristshot debate:

Often times, the two are very hard to tell apart. I've had shots where I had a sweeping motion but followed through with just the tiniest of a flick of the wrist. I think its safe to say that some people would call that a snapshot and some would call it a wrister. It just depends on how you view the definition because I've heard it both ways (and I've been playing the game for a long time).

To see an example of someone who shoots pure snap shots, watch Joe Sakic (who I think has perhaps the best "snapper" of all time).

Pure wrist shot players are tough to find (see Jiggy's explanation). The snap shot is just so much quicker of a release and is just as accurate. I see Ovechkin take a decent amount of wristers but even he takes his fair share of snap shots too. Kovalev used to/still does take a lot of pure wristers

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04-03-2011, 04:44 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
Just to weigh in on the "snap shot" vs wristshot debate:

Often times, the two are very hard to tell apart. I've had shots where I had a sweeping motion but followed through with just the tiniest of a flick of the wrist. I think its safe to say that some people would call that a snapshot and some would call it a wrister. It just depends on how you view the definition because I've heard it both ways (and I've been playing the game for a long time).

To see an example of someone who shoots pure snap shots, watch Joe Sakic (who I think has perhaps the best "snapper" of all time).


Pure wrist shot players are tough to find (see Jiggy's explanation). The snap shot is just so much quicker of a release and is just as accurate. I see Ovechkin take a decent amount of wristers but even he takes his fair share of snap shots too. Kovalev used to/still does take a lot of pure wristers
I think the following just goes to show how different people define the shots differently:

Quote:
Talk about your most potent weapon, your wrist shot.

JS: I use it almost all the time. I rarely use the slapshot. Even from the point, I will most often use the wrist shot and just try to get it through the forward and hope it makes it to the net.
http://www.hockeyplayer.com/paid/pub...icle_247.shtml

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04-03-2011, 04:47 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I think the following just goes to show how different people define the shots differently:



http://www.hockeyplayer.com/paid/pub...icle_247.shtml
Well there you have it. Joe Sakic IMO is the prototypical example of the snapshot.

Watching this video, a lot of these shots are snapshots, especially at the 1:22 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVBuLmblvHc


Last edited by hctopcheds11: 04-03-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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04-03-2011, 04:56 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
Well there you have it. Joe Sakic IMO is the prototypical example of the snapshot.

Watching this video, a lot of these shots are snapshots, especially at the 1:22 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVBuLmblvHc
Honestly? I think the definitions might have changed a little over time.

Sakic would've seen the wristshot just as an alternative to the slapper, while a snapshot was more of an abbreviated half-slap, rather than what Jig and yourself are suggesting.

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04-03-2011, 04:59 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Honestly? I think the definitions might have changed a little over time.

Sakic would've seen the wristshot just as an alternative to the slapper, while a snapshot was more of an abbreviated half-slap, rather than what Jig and yourself are suggesting.
Not sure CW.

Growing up, everyone I know always looked at Joe Sakic as having the "best snapshot" in the game. No one ever really talked about his wrister per se, it was always the snapshot due to how hard he flicked his wrist. Has he scored a bunch of goals with his wrister? Absolutely. But his snapshot was what made him the sniper he was.

For instance, watch the Avalanches goals #2 and #3 in this game. These are prototypical Sakic snap shots @ 1:11 and 1:54. Especially the replay of the two goals, where you can see no sweeping motion and just a flick of the wrist:


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04-03-2011, 05:02 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
Not sure CW.

Growing up, everyone I know always looked at Joe Sakic as having the "best snapshot" in the game. No one ever really talked about his wrister per se, it was always the snapshot due to how hard he flicked his wrist. Has he scored a bunch of goals with his wrister? Absolutely. But his snapshot was what made him the sniper he was.

For instance, watch the Avalanches goals #2 and #3 in this game. These are prototypical Sakic snap shots @ 1:11 and 1:54. Especially the replay of the two goals, where you can see no sweeping motion and just a flick of the wrist:

We definitely grew up in different areas, haha. Sakic had the wrist shot, Hull the snap, and MacInnis the slap.

At least in and around rural Manitoba.

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04-03-2011, 05:07 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
We definitely grew up in different areas, haha.
I think snap shots are often times grouped into "wristers". Therefore, I can see why people talked about his "wristshot" but playing hockey, people always used Sakic as the example of a great "snapshot".

If you go by your definition, he shoots a wristshot. Jiggy's definition is that he shoots a snap shot. I think I'm somewhere in between. Joe Sakic's shot is about as pure of a snap shot as you will see (of course not all of them but the ones shown in the video above from the finals). Whereas I agree with you that OV is more of a wrist shot guy.

Doesn't have to be so black and white. I think there's definitely a huge grey area.

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04-03-2011, 05:08 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
I think snap shots are often times grouped into "wristers". Therefore, I can see why people talked about his "wristshot" but playing hockey, people always used Sakic as the example of a great "snapshot".

If you go by your definition, he shoots a wristshot. Jiggy's definition is that he shoots a snap shot. I think I'm somewhere in between. Joe Sakic's shot is about as pure of a snap shot as you will see (of course not all of them but the ones shown in the video above from the finals). Whereas I agree with you that OV is more of a wrist shot guy.

Doesn't have to be so black and white. I think there's definitely a huge grey area.
For sure.

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04-03-2011, 05:10 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
For sure.
Its definitely interesting that this is being so heavily debated though.

I remember talking about how it was crazy that Joe Sakic took snapshots off the toe of his blade. That always boggled my mind.

What would you group those two shots from the Finals as?

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04-03-2011, 05:19 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
Its definitely interesting that this is being so heavily debated though.

I remember talking about how it was crazy that Joe Sakic took snapshots off the toe of his blade. That always boggled my mind.

What would you group those two shots from the Finals as?
I think Sakic would qualify those as wrist shots, as they're pretty textbook Sakic shots. Jiggy would certainly call them snap shots.

Me? I'd say they're snap shots as most people would define them now.

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04-03-2011, 05:20 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I think Sakic would qualify those as wrist shots, as they're pretty textbook Sakic shots. Jiggy would certainly call them snap shots.

Me? I'd say they're snap shots as most people would define them now.
Certainly interesting. Obviously I feel the same way, but man could he shoot.

Speaking of which, Sakic is the man. Does anyone hate that guy?

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04-03-2011, 05:23 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
Certainly interesting. Obviously I feel the same way, but man could he shoot.

Speaking of which, Sakic is the man. Does anyone hate that guy?
I don't think he ever said enough to earn anyone's ire, and he never saturated the media as the face of the NHL so people couldn't develop an irrational hate for him, haha.

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