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03-30-2011, 11:03 PM
  #1
glenngineer
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2003 Time Machine

While watching Anaheim tonight I got to thinking something, and this has been a thought I've had a few times so I thought I'd discuss it here. If we could go back to the 2003 draft and alter our picks without anything else in the draft changing, would you give up Suter and Weber and replace them on the roster with Getzlaf and Perry? I can't honestly think of any 2 teams that drafted 2 players that are all studs in the same draft class. Then looking back real quick I see the Flyers drafting Richards and Carter that same year. All in all one of the best drafts ever, if not the best ever. While I think Richards and Carter are great players, I'd take Getzlaf and Perry over them as a pair. So back to the original question, would you give up Suter and Weber if you knew Getzlaf and Perry would be coming here instead?

I honestly don't have an answer to this question. Let's keep salary out of the equation as they'll all make about the same when all is said and done and let's not replace these 4 guys in this discussion. This is would Nashville be better, worse or the same with Perry and Getzlaf as opposed to Weber and Suter.

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03-30-2011, 11:17 PM
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Joe T Choker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
While watching Anaheim tonight I got to thinking something, and this has been a thought I've had a few times so I thought I'd discuss it here. If we could go back to the 2003 draft and alter our picks without anything else in the draft changing, would you give up Suter and Weber and replace them on the roster with Getzlaf and Perry? I can't honestly think of any 2 teams that drafted 2 players that are all studs in the same draft class. Then looking back real quick I see the Flyers drafting Richards and Carter that same year. All in all one of the best drafts ever, if not the best ever. While I think Richards and Carter are great players, I'd take Getzlaf and Perry over them as a pair. So back to the original question, would you give up Suter and Weber if you knew Getzlaf and Perry would be coming here instead?

I honestly don't have an answer to this question. Let's keep salary out of the equation as they'll all make about the same when all is said and done and let's not replace these 4 guys in this discussion. This is would Nashville be better, worse or the same with Perry and Getzlaf as opposed to Weber and Suter.
I don't think I would trade Suter & Weber for Getzlaf/Perry or Richards/Carter ... With how things have transpired on our defense corp over the last few years (Hamhuis) leaving ... I'd keep Suter/Weber

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03-30-2011, 11:22 PM
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Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
I don't think I would trade Suter & Weber for Getzlaf/Perry or Richards/Carter ... With how things have transpired on our defense corp over the last few years (Hamhuis) leaving ... I'd keep Suter/Weber
I agree. By keeping Suter and Weber we're able to better balance the team budget. We have tremendous depth at D and a few studs in net too. I'd rather pay my top D pair the big bucks and have to only fill 4 other spots at that position with a more limited budget rather than going top heavy at F and compensating by stretching the budget thin to fill an additional 10 spots in the lineup.

If we were a cap team though I might consider it more, but since we're not...I prefer the path we've taken.

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03-30-2011, 11:25 PM
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it is impossible to say things would stay where they are. i would take the anaheim duo in a heartbeat. we have those guys, we find a way to ship arnott out sooner, dumont too more than likely. so it covers the money. and i am comfortable thinking poile would have found a way to address the defense

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03-30-2011, 11:27 PM
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May be heresy but I would do it in a heartbeat. The way poile is always money drfting d men he would have found a suitable alternative in another draft, most likely hed have drafted dmen instead of radulov and geoffrion or we would still have hamhuis and zanon or something like that. Would our d be as good? No, but if we still had rinne it wouldn't have to be because we would score so much more

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03-30-2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
it is impossible to say things would stay where they are. i would take the anaheim duo in a heartbeat. we have those guys, we find a way to ship arnott out sooner, dumont too more than likely. so it covers the money. and i am comfortable thinking poile would have found a way to address the defense
You'd still have Blum, Klein, Franson, Sulzer, Josi, Ellis, Roussel, etc in
the pipeline and might have been able to find a way to keep Hamhuis and Zanon if you don't have Suter and Weber anchoring the backend...

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03-30-2011, 11:49 PM
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I think the biggest 'whoops' was not moving up to get a forward we desperately needed (and still do).

We had a ridiculous amount of picks. It's also back when Arkhipov and others had some value. Could have easily moved in the mid-20s to pick a quality forward prospect like Richards, Kesler or Perry.

Sure it's easy to see now. But other teams had the foresight. Like NJ moving up to get Parise for example.

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03-31-2011, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
You'd still have Blum, Klein, Franson, Sulzer, Josi, Ellis, Roussel, etc in
the pipeline and might have been able to find a way to keep Hamhuis and Zanon if you don't have Suter and Weber anchoring the backend...
Or in Philly's case, with Carter & Richards, get Pronger for relatively cheap and Coburn for peanuts to fill out the backend.

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03-31-2011, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I think the biggest 'whoops' was not moving up to get a forward we desperately needed (and still do).

We had a ridiculous amount of picks. It's also back when Arkhipov and others had some value. Could have easily moved in the mid-20s to pick a quality forward prospect like Richards, Kesler or Perry.

Sure it's easy to see now. But other teams had the foresight. Like NJ moving up to get Parise for example.
I should've put a poll up if you'd say something like this. You do not disappoint as I know you'd post something to this effect. While hindsight is 20/20 all I was asking is if you or anyone else would swap our D for the two Anaheim forwards, not detailed analysis of how we misused our assets or messed up in the draft.

And if you are going to say that, If we use a pick or two to move up in the draft to pick one of the forwards you mentioned, we wouldn't have Klein and Weber as we already had taken Suter and those were 2 of our next 3 picks. We had three second rounders and probably would've had to part with 2, if not 3 of them to move up to pick any of those guys. I digress.

Would you rather have Weber/Suter or Perry/Getzlaf? Pretty simple question, or is it?

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03-31-2011, 08:14 AM
  #10
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I'm really not sure I trade Suter/Weber for Perry/Getzlaf, but I'd certainly think about it hard. The pick I would change for sure is Kevin Klein. I would have gone with someone like Bergeron or Backes instead. Now that would have been awesome

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03-31-2011, 08:22 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
I'm really not sure I trade Suter/Weber for Perry/Getzlaf, but I'd certainly think about it hard. The pick I would change for sure is Kevin Klein. I would have gone with someone like Bergeron or Backes instead. Now that would have been awesome
Just remember, it was Suter and Weber on the ice for the two goals in the third against Vancouver the other night.

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03-31-2011, 08:30 AM
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One last caveat to this, if you could take 2 of the 4, Suter, Weber, Getzlaf and Perry, knowing what we know now, which two would you select?

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03-31-2011, 08:48 AM
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Weber/Getzlaf

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03-31-2011, 09:07 AM
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Weber and Perry. Or Weber and Richards.

Not that Weber and Suter are not a great leadership duo to build on, but look at what kind of leader Richards has turned into, won't lead the league in scoring but would certainly be the best forward on the Preds by a mile. Perry has taken a little longer to become that leader but he's getting there.

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03-31-2011, 10:37 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Would you rather have Weber/Suter or Perry/Getzlaf? Pretty simple question, or is it?
Not really. What would we have done with the other 18 roster spots?

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03-31-2011, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
One last caveat to this, if you could take 2 of the 4, Suter, Weber, Getzlaf and Perry, knowing what we know now, which two would you select?

Excellent question, I still go with Suter and Weber because it locks up the entire top line of defense, and the amount of time they spend on the ice is greater. However, had we drafted Getzlaf and Perry, I expect my answer would be them over Suter and Weber.

Now for the above part, I actually would go with Suter and Getzlaf. I don't actually think there is a wrong answer to this question, except maybe Jessiman.

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03-31-2011, 11:57 AM
  #17
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I would tend to say Suter/Getzlaf for me as well except I wouldn't trade Weber for Getzlaf right now so what does that say? If Flyers are included, then Suter/Richards and I might trade Weber for Richards.

If I had to lose one of Suter or Weber over the next 24 months, let it be Weber. I love him but I think Suter is more valuable to our team.

Just think, if Poile had succeeded (he tried apparently) in trading to get the NJ pick to choose Parise....

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03-31-2011, 03:31 PM
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A little devil's advocate ....

There is no guarantee that any of these players mentioned develop into the studs we see today if drafted by another team. Different influences, coaching styles, linemates, mentors, etc probably result in a different outcome.

It's the basic premise of every time travel movie ... changing the time space continuum makes everything different. Ask McFly.

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03-31-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
A little devil's advocate ....

There is no guarantee that any of these players mentioned develop into the studs we see today if drafted by another team. Different influences, coaching styles, linemates, mentors, etc probably result in a different outcome.

It's the basic premise of every time travel movie ... changing the time space continuum makes everything different. Ask McFly.
Your logic is not welcome here. We were having a great time pretending

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03-31-2011, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
A little devil's advocate ....

There is no guarantee that any of these players mentioned develop into the studs we see today if drafted by another team. Different influences, coaching styles, linemates, mentors, etc probably result in a different outcome.

It's the basic premise of every time travel movie ... changing the time space continuum makes everything different. Ask McFly.
or the one armed bellman at Kodiak Valley Lodge

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03-31-2011, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
A little devil's advocate ....

There is no guarantee that any of these players mentioned develop into the studs we see today if drafted by another team. Different influences, coaching styles, linemates, mentors, etc probably result in a different outcome.

It's the basic premise of every time travel movie ... changing the time space continuum makes everything different. Ask McFly.
HEAVY

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03-31-2011, 04:09 PM
  #22
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The 2010-11 version of Weber, Suter, Perry, Getzlaf, Richards, et al are the type players that all teams hope to see their early draft picks develop into. In reality the difference between a serviceable early draft pick and a star isn't much. A lot of times it is how that player is developed that determines how much of their potential they reach. Look at the difference between the situation Legwand came into as a young player, and that of Suter/Weber. The difference between where Tavares and Stamkos ended up. Individual talent only goes so far .... groups of complementary skilled individuals make great teams.

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03-31-2011, 04:26 PM
  #23
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I think defenseman can be "coached" more than forwards. You can't really teach offensive skill and natural goal scoring ability; maybe getting more garbage goals. Offensive ability can be honed a little bit, but there is a reason Oveckin/Crosby broke into the league tearing it up with bad linemates on a bad team-- they had natural, unteachable skill. Radulov would be a another example, though not to the extent of Crosby obviously.

Defense can be taught more, and I think Trotz is one of the best in the league. Here turned journeymen like Zanon, Eaton, etc into top4 dmen. Turned other journeymen like Bouillion, O'Brien, etc into a serviceable guys. And most every prospect that came through the system-- Timonen, Skrastins, Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, Klien, Franson, etc have met or exceeded their projected potential.

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03-31-2011, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I think defenseman can be "coached" more than forwards. You can't really teach offensive skill and natural goal scoring ability; maybe getting more garbage goals. Offensive ability can be honed a little bit, but there is a reason Oveckin/Crosby broke into the league tearing it up with bad linemates on a bad team-- they had natural, unteachable skill. Radulov would be a another example, though not to the extent of Crosby obviously.

Defense can be taught more, and I think Trotz is one of the best in the league. Here turned journeymen like Zanon, Eaton, etc into top4 dmen. Turned other journeymen like Bouillion, O'Brien, etc into a serviceable guys. And most every prospect that came through the system-- Timonen, Skrastins, Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, Klien, Franson, etc have met or exceeded their projected potential.
All good points. Let's throw out 101's theory from above and project Getz and Perry to become the players they've become, it would be hard to turn these two down as Trotz is able to coach defensively and get more out of less on the blue line. I would probably take Getz and Perry in this scenario because of what you stated. You can't teach offense. Some guys have it and some guys don't. If Trotz still has the ability to make the most out of blueliners, then you go with two top 3 forwards, build around them up front and then develop from the back end out with Korn(goalies) and Trotz(defensemen) and then all of a sudden Legwand and Erat are your second line guys which fit their skill sets better.

And for those who were saying Richards and/or Carter, as good as those two are, I think Perry and Getzlaf are the better pair and are better individually. Perry has been a stud all year long and Getzlaf is a freaking beast. I like Richards but would much rather have the Ducks duo.

And if I had to pick two I'd probably go with Suter and Getzlaf more than likely although I might be hard pressed to go with Suter and Perry as Perry still succeeded without Getzlaf for part of the year and he's an excellent penalty killer in addition to being good at even strength and on the PP.

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04-01-2011, 12:19 AM
  #25
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give me perry and suter.

perry is nasty enough to offset weber. give me the elite puck mover and the forward that can pot 40 and hit.

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