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CIS Hockey Expansion opportunities?

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Old
04-02-2011, 11:18 AM
  #1
nosl
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CIS Hockey Expansion opportunities?

I've mentioned St John's, NF as a potential spot the CIS could expand into Mile One Stadium. However, an interesting opportunity might have risen out West.

I've read in the Major Junior forums that Chilliwack is losing its WHL club to Victoria (despite averaging 3300 fans). The community has the University of the Fraser Valley. The city also has a nearly brand new facility at the Prospera Centre (5000 seats). It might also be an opportunity to even out the Canada-West at 8 teams.

http://www.gov.chilliwack.bc.ca/main/page.cfm?id=77

Thoughts?

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04-02-2011, 11:35 AM
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The main campus of the University of Fraser Valley is located at Abbotsford. Chilliwack would be a satellite campus. Don't know if that matters...........
It's funny though when you think about it that Alberta has three CIS teams (Alberta, Calgary, Lethbridge) and Saskatchewan has two (Saskatchewan, Regina), while B.C. has just one (UBC/aka OUA West Coast). If there was ever room for CIS expansion in the Canada West, you would think it could be found in the basketball-playing, soccer-kicking, volleyball-bumping uni's of British Columbia...But hockey is an expensive CIS sport to house, especially based out of B.C., where air travel is often necessary.

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04-02-2011, 11:45 AM
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Looking at the schools in BC, I'd say Trinity Western would be the best bet to start a hockey program, could play out of the Langley Events Centre, but they would have a tough time attracting Major Junior players if they expect them to live by their code of sanctity.

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04-02-2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puck passion View Post
The main campus of the University of Fraser Valley is located at Abbotsford. Chilliwack would be a satellite campus. Don't know if that matters...........
It's funny though when you think about it that Alberta has three CIS teams (Alberta, Calgary, Lethbridge) and Saskatchewan has two (Saskatchewan, Regina), while B.C. has just one (UBC/aka OUA West Coast). If there was ever room for CIS expansion in the Canada West, you would think it could be found in the basketball-playing, soccer-kicking, volleyball-bumping uni's of British Columbia...But hockey is an expensive CIS sport to house, especially based out of B.C., where air travel is often necessary.
What's the deal on UBC, saw a CIS article, from their website concerning their (CIS's) reaction to UBC's consideration of something?? they jumping to the NCAA or Independent? or thinking of it? Heard of this before, thought it was just football only.
What about Simon Fraser, TW has done really well in everything they have ventured into? volleyball, basketball, soccer? I wonder, if the same thing was ever said about Toronto St Mike's, They were pretty devout, lots of tough rugged hockey players too, Now running a CHL team. Same as BYU in football, Notre Dame for that matter.Are the players necessarily sanctimonious at TW? or is it like the rest, the university is for sure, but once they are on that field, ice etc....look out.

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04-02-2011, 02:21 PM
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According to veteran journalist Serge Vleminckx, there's universities in Quebec thinking about starting a hockey program.

http://www.ruefrontenac.com/sports/s...re-lhjmq-allie

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04-02-2011, 04:51 PM
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Memorial makes the most sense. Haven't heard any discussion about it though. St. John's seem more focused on geting back a major junior team.

Mount A could definitely work again. From what I've heard we have to wait for the current AD regime to retire for that to happen.

There's always UNBSJ.

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04-02-2011, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Island Husky View Post
What's the deal on UBC, saw a CIS article, from their website concerning their (CIS's) reaction to UBC's consideration of something?? they jumping to the NCAA or Independent? or thinking of it? Heard of this before, thought it was just football only.
What about Simon Fraser, TW has done really well in everything they have ventured into? volleyball, basketball, soccer? I wonder, if the same thing was ever said about Toronto St Mike's, They were pretty devout, lots of tough rugged hockey players too, Now running a CHL team. Same as BYU in football, Notre Dame for that matter.Are the players necessarily sanctimonious at TW? or is it like the rest, the university is for sure, but once they are on that field, ice etc....look out.
It was probably something to do with UBC moving to the NCAA for certain sports (Football, Basketball, Baseball, etc.) but remaining in the CIS for others. I think Swimming was the one not offered in NCAA. CIS said they can't compete in NCAA for certain sports and CIS for others.

If UBC were to move to NCAA, hockey would be the hardest sport to switch over. Yes, they have an arena, but it would big money for them to move up to Div. 1 hockey, not mention the transition period it would take for them to become competitive since most of their players would be inelligible due to playing major junior. There is no Div. II hockey, and all the Div. 3 schools only come as far west as Wisconsin.

SFU is now an NCAA Div II school, but run a club team in the British Columbia Intercollegiate Hockey League.

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04-02-2011, 09:56 PM
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Memorial makes the most sense. Haven't heard any discussion about it though. St. John's seem more focused on geting back a major junior team.

Mount A could definitely work again. From what I've heard we have to wait for the current AD regime to retire for that to happen.

There's always UNBSJ.
More like wait for the former AD to pass away... But I for one would love to have a team at MTA, the girls program have a decent rivalry going on and it would be fun to have the same with the guys.

I'm kind of torn on Memorial tough... While I would love to see them also have a team, I've heard many horror stories of flying to Newfoundland in the winter and I'm not the bravest soul on a plane so I'd need a good supply of Crown Royal for those trips haha.

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04-02-2011, 11:32 PM
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Fraser Valley, Thompson Rivers, and Trinity Western all play in the BCIHL. Trinity said at the start of this season that their team would have full varsity status with a view to a future jump to CIS.

IMO, an equivalent league out east would be nice for new programs or schools that could not compete in the CIS.

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04-03-2011, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by timbitca View Post
I'm kind of torn on Memorial tough... While I would love to see them also have a team, I've heard many horror stories of flying to Newfoundland in the winter and I'm not the bravest soul on a plane so I'd need a good supply of Crown Royal for those trips haha.
St. John's would be the ultimate road trip.

I know Memorial is in the AUS for Basketball so the travel can be done.

But if I had to choose I would go with Mount A as well.

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04-03-2011, 10:05 AM
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Mount A would be a great addition location wise but a 9 team league would not be great for scheduling purposes.

CBU did very well really during their CIS men's hockey years but really cut down to 5 very successful varsity teams after their football venture. CBU already has an excellent facility. During this past season there were 15 -16 former CB Screaming Eagles playing in the AUS league, almost like a natural but not guaranteed feeder system.

In the past, teams made one trip to Memorial for 2 games but weather was a concern. Unfortunately, Memorial has lost its Q league feeder team but there are still large numbers of Newfoundlanders playing CHL hockey that might love to return home to continue their education. A CIS team in St. John might be able to fill the void in that great unused facility and really draw fans much like UNB does in Fredericton.

It would be great for the AUS if 2 of these 3 teams were to step back into CIS men's hockey but I can't see it happening really.

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09-11-2011, 08:37 AM
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There has not been a post in this thread for a few months now and i am sure everyone is aware that the Mount Royal Cougars, from Calgary, have been accepted into Canada West for the 2012-13 season. They are playing exhibition games this fall against almost all the current Canada West teams and just wrapped up a two-game set with the University of Lethbridge which saw them win both games. Maybe they could be fast-tracked into the league for this year Looks like their program will be immediately competitive.

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09-11-2011, 09:37 AM
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Winning against Lethbridge does not suddenly make you competitive.

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09-11-2011, 10:45 AM
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There has not been a post in this thread for a few months now and i am sure everyone is aware that the Mount Royal Cougars, from Calgary, have been accepted into Canada West for the 2012-13 season. They are playing exhibition games this fall against almost all the current Canada West teams and just wrapped up a two-game set with the University of Lethbridge which saw them win both games. Maybe they could be fast-tracked into the league for this year Looks like their program will be immediately competitive.
The ACAC teams always play several games against the CW teams very fall, and sometimes at Christmas also. They have always been just below the calibre but not that much. IMO if they all joined it would make the CW a lot like the OUA.

BTW last year was the first I remember when the ACAC was whitewashed against the CW. MRU won the ACAC last year and should be recruiting heavily for next year. I don't know what kind of team the H0rny Ones will have this year.

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09-11-2011, 09:37 PM
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Island Husky
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Originally Posted by Archie Jones View Post
Mount A would be a great addition location wise but a 9 team league would not be great for scheduling purposes.

CBU did very well really during their CIS men's hockey years but really cut down to 5 very successful varsity teams after their football venture. CBU already has an excellent facility. During this past season there were 15 -16 former CB Screaming Eagles playing in the AUS league, almost like a natural but not guaranteed feeder system.

In the past, teams made one trip to Memorial for 2 games but weather was a concern. Unfortunately, Memorial has lost its Q league feeder team but there are still large numbers of Newfoundlanders playing CHL hockey that might love to return home to continue their education. A CIS team in St. John might be able to fill the void in that great unused facility and really draw fans much like UNB does in Fredericton.

It would be great for the AUS if 2 of these 3 teams were to step back into CIS men's hockey but I can't see it happening really.
That's true, Cape Breton had real problems recruiting, they lost a ton of guys to the mainland teams, but now with that Junior team in there, I would think it would be alot like Charlottetown. Glace Bay had a Tier II Jr team very briefly but economics did them in too. Still, I think the overall experience scared them for a long time, especially that year long football thing with JI Albrecht....everything the guy touched turned to poison, and in one year very nearly did in the entire Dept. Since the cancellation of hockey, (and for a short time did they not drop soccer too?) they have concentrated on the remaining sports and they are doing well in basketball and soccer by doing so.
As for Memorial, yes soccer teams have been going there since the beginning, but like basketball, a team goes over there one year and Memorial comes here the next. They, Memorial, play doubleheaders by this method every weekend.
The way it used to be with the Kelly and MacAdam divisions and four teams qualifying in each for the playoffs, always left the MacAdam Division and the Mounties out of the loop, at the same time ALL four teams remaining in the Kelly made the playoffs, Saint Mary's got in that way for two years running. The scheduling changed little, as you played each team in your own div four times and those in the other, twice. But it would be more difficult now that everyone is in the same and you play everyone four times. Have to have bye weeks I guess.
I'd lkove to see both those teams, CBU and MTA back in it, but after last year and what happened to Saint Mary's womens team, yeeesh...it's tough and it can happen to anyone.

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09-12-2011, 11:39 AM
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I don't want to throw cold water on any teams coming into the CIS. But is there any report of anybody wanting a team? It is easy to list universities without teams and say "there's a potential new team". We all know that McMaster and Laval are big universities without teams, and that the AUS has had several schools fold hockey programs, but have any of them released a statement about this?

The BCIHL and ACAC teams are possible additions to Canada West simply because they already have teams. But so far Trinity Western is the only one with an announced intention to do so. Of course, the ACAC would require admission to the CIS first. (Even if they were admitted I would prefer that they play in a tier 2 league.)

The Brandon rumour from last year (ostensibly from Andy Murray) hit the papers and about 4 years ago there was a Winnipeg rumour (fomented by Lloyd Axworthy). In the meantime, the MCAC (which always struggled to find a third team) folded their hockey competition in 2010. Realistically, Brandon and Winnipeg would be better off getting CMU and Assiniboine College to start up again and then joining them in a MCAC league.

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09-12-2011, 10:15 PM
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Nothing public that I am aware of, See Major junior, although in its 17th? year now is still the thing to aspire for, from a community perspective. Economics are also influencing career choices where more and more kids are going to colleges now, and some universities,like UPEI are starting to scramble, make deals with Holland College for offering joint programs etc. Most of our colleges have a ways to go to catch up to the others in Canada in terms of size, at least the popular ones. However, Holland College is growing in leaps and bounds. Last year they instituted a football league, HC has one team, UNBSJ has one also, Moncton folded, Dalhousie put a team in, but it is by no means a varsity league. You don't even have to be in school to play on the teams! Whereas Holland College does well in soccer, and some of the others in Halifax etc are excellent programs in basketball and soccer, hockey is such a "costly start up", not that its ongoing costs are anything light either, it is SO inhibitive to schools. However, I thought one of the Moncton guys here said something about Atlantic Baptist University, now Crandall U, having scads of money and looking to expand...wouldn't surprise me. But all information on this sort of thing is kept very very quietly.

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09-14-2011, 11:59 AM
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Nothing public that I am aware of, See Major junior, although in its 17th? year now is still the thing to aspire for, from a community perspective. Economics are also influencing career choices where more and more kids are going to colleges now, and some universities,like UPEI are starting to scramble, make deals with Holland College for offering joint programs etc. Most of our colleges have a ways to go to catch up to the others in Canada in terms of size, at least the popular ones. However, Holland College is growing in leaps and bounds. Last year they instituted a football league, HC has one team, UNBSJ has one also, Moncton folded, Dalhousie put a team in, but it is by no means a varsity league. You don't even have to be in school to play on the teams! Whereas Holland College does well in soccer, and some of the others in Halifax etc are excellent programs in basketball and soccer, hockey is such a "costly start up", not that its ongoing costs are anything light either, it is SO inhibitive to schools. However, I thought one of the Moncton guys here said something about Atlantic Baptist University, now Crandall U, having scads of money and looking to expand...wouldn't surprise me. But all information on this sort of thing is kept very very quietly.
Having relocated to Hamilton, wouldn't you think that a CIS hockey sporting McMaster University colours would look great? Hard to imagine a school that size and part of the hockey mania that is the GTA not having CIS hockey. They do play hockey at the school, but haven't ventured to the next level. Mind you, McMaster seems to put great emphasis on its football program, and we all know how expensive that sport is....

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09-14-2011, 02:19 PM
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Having relocated to Hamilton, wouldn't you think that a CIS hockey sporting McMaster University colours would look great? Hard to imagine a school that size and part of the hockey mania that is the GTA not having CIS hockey. They do play hockey at the school, but haven't ventured to the next level. Mind you, McMaster seems to put great emphasis on its football program, and we all know how expensive that sport is....
Once upon a time McMaster and Laval and Memorial and other schools had CIAU hockey teams. Not sure why they stopped (probably $$$), and I agree, it would be great to see them back. MAC doesn't even have to compete with the OHL in Hamilton, just the AHL.

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09-16-2011, 10:58 AM
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Once upon a time McMaster and Laval and Memorial and other schools had CIAU hockey teams. Not sure why they stopped (probably $$$), and I agree, it would be great to see them back. MAC doesn't even have to compete with the OHL in Hamilton, just the AHL.
I don't even think there's a great love for the AHL from what I'm hearing here...same problems that were in Freddy with the best players being yanked at a moment's notice, and the crazy schedule resulting in too many snoozers....funny that the AD at McMaster is Jeff Giles, father of the former Acadia Axemen handyman Scott. But football rules here. They just invested tons of loot into a on-campus stadum and I believe the basketball facility is fairly new as well....not sure if they had hockey, would it be at the copps arena???

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09-16-2011, 11:36 AM
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Having relocated to Hamilton, wouldn't you think that a CIS hockey sporting McMaster University colours would look great? Hard to imagine a school that size and part of the hockey mania that is the GTA not having CIS hockey. They do play hockey at the school, but haven't ventured to the next level. Mind you, McMaster seems to put great emphasis on its football program, and we all know how expensive that sport is....
While some in the gta say its a hockey meca etc the truth is its really not sure they are a great nhl town maybe the best but hockey is really not supported all that well in the toronto area.

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09-19-2011, 06:59 AM
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Its good to hear the Canada West is going to be a 8 team League Again, and well their is other potential Universities to Play Hockey in the West, Ontario and Atlantic Canada, the Most Surprising area to me is Hockey Mad Quebec with just teams at UQTR, McGill and Concordia. They have a huge Feeder system with the QMJHL, Universities like Laval, Bishops, Sherbrooke, Montreal etc.

I could definately see Memorial University working someday, not right now with the AHL in town to give it a go but some day definately, AUS Teams would fly in their once a year for a Double Header, Memorial would have to Fly out 7 Times for road Trips, thats not that bad. They do it in other sports, including a team in the Monsterous Gigantic 3 Team AUS Mens Volleyball League, that they finish in last place in each year.

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09-19-2011, 08:49 AM
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The big problem they have in Quebec is that damned LNAH. A lot of the CIS-caliber players that are indeed attending universities there are playing in the LNAH and getting paid for it too. Much more lucrative for them to do that than to play in the CIS. And I would assume that is a big part of the problem discouraging uni's there from building up a program. On the flipside, the women's teams in Quebec are the strongest in the country.

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09-19-2011, 09:22 AM
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The big problem they have in Quebec is that damned LNAH. A lot of the CIS-caliber players that are indeed attending universities there are playing in the LNAH and getting paid for it too. Much more lucrative for them to do that than to play in the CIS. And I would assume that is a big part of the problem discouraging uni's there from building up a program. On the flipside, the women's teams in Quebec are the strongest in the country.
I agree. UQTR coach Jacques Laporte told me a couple of years ago that it really impacts on his recruiting. The "student-athlete" still gets his Q scholarship plus gets paid to play on weekends only in the LNAH and doesn't have the daily practice commitments of a CIS team. A former UNB player who played pro told me once if you are a tough guy with skills, you can make as much as $1600 a weekend in the LNAH. Their top-rung fighters apparently make more than they earned in the minor pros, sometimes even more than in the AHL.

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09-22-2011, 11:11 PM
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Salaries have gone down a bit in the LNAH nowadays.

But yeah it's a big problem when it comes to recruiting. I even knew some guys who attended UQTR but played in the LNAH during the weekends for a better pay day.

Still, that doesn't explain why there's not more than 3 teams in the province. When it comes to Laval, they don't want to compete with the Remparts (pretty much the same owners)

As for others... they're just seems to be no interest at all. I went to Sherbrooke for a year and never heard about someone wanting to get a hockey team. However, football's doing great there and pretty much takes all the attention.

Montreal could, one day, have a team, since they have the women team, but no hockey team on the island seems to have success if they're not wearing a C and a H on their jersey.

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