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Old
04-03-2011, 09:01 PM
  #26
wtbipyo
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
I agree.

We could really use a shot that commands respect on the point. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a d-man, though.
Based on how Michalek looked the other night at the point, his shot is exactly what we need. Letang obviously needs to spend the entire off-season working on his shot. If he can fix his shot like Sid did, then the sky is the limit for Tanger. Michalek simplifies the PP as well. Shoot first and let everyone else rebound. I'm all for simple at this point.

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04-03-2011, 09:05 PM
  #27
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Letang's shot was fantastic in the beginning of the season. He reverted recently to old Kris Letang.

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04-03-2011, 09:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Letang's shot was fantastic in the beginning of the season. He reverted recently to old Kris Letang.
I wish I knew what his deal is lately. I know that his production decreased because of the injuries but I fee like hes lost the confidence he had in the beginning. He is an amazing skater I just wish he had some more confidence or something because if he started putting it in the net more often he could be something really special.

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04-03-2011, 09:25 PM
  #29
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Say what you want about our defense but there are very few D cores in the entire league that I would take over our's. A couple goals sprinkled throughout 82 games means nothing compared to consistent solid D.

If Shero wanted defensemen who can score he could've picked up Souray off of waivers. There's a true Dman.

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04-03-2011, 09:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by wtbipyo View Post
Based on how Michalek looked the other night at the point, his shot is exactly what we need. Letang obviously needs to spend the entire off-season working on his shot. If he can fix his shot like Sid did, then the sky is the limit for Tanger. Michalek simplifies the PP as well. Shoot first and let everyone else rebound. I'm all for simple at this point.
If Michalek hasn't established himself as a threat from the point by now, it's probably never going to happen. He has a hard slapper, but he doesn't have the accuracy or instincts to be consistently successful with it.

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Originally Posted by andyg26 View Post
Thats why I'd like to see Geno on one point and Letang on the other for next season. Then Crosby on the half wall, Kunitz net front, Neal roving the middle of the ice.
There's a nice analog in Anaheim with Getzlaf working the point. I'd like to see if Malkin could make it work, since it'd clean up a lot of our right half-wall logjam.

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04-04-2011, 02:53 AM
  #31
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Seeing as how this team doesn't have any legitimate first unit pointmen besides Letang (and even that is questionable at times), Malkin seems like the perfect candidate to take over at the right point. He has a lethal one timer that commands attention at all times which theoretically should open up a lot of space for other players to take advantage of. Of course we'd have to abandon the whole "we're not a one-timer powerplay" mindset, and that's something Bylsma seems very reluctant to do, even despite having little to no success with any other powerplay configuration.

Having Malkin at the point should also help with the entries. If you drop the puck back to him in the neutral zone as he comes with speed, the vast majority of the time he's gaining the zone cleanly.

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04-04-2011, 05:30 AM
  #32
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At 5mil a year and thus our highest paid dman, and in many teams cases he would be amongst their highest paid dmen as well he should be the best dman in all situations not just even strength. My problem is they went out and spent #1 dmen money on him and he isnt that, it only compounds the problem when they spent a pretty penny on Michelek as well. To have one at around that price is one thing but to have both hurts this team in the fact that we really don't have a capable load carrying puckmover. Maybe if Letang could hit a broadside of a barn he could be that but the guys earning the big money arent going to be counted on for that and it only helps make the pitiful powerplay even worse.
I think you are mixing up puck mover with shooter. We probably have the best puck moving defense in the league. All of our guys are above average to great at it. The worst puck mover out of the currently playing 6 is Lovejoy.

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04-04-2011, 06:17 AM
  #33
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The Penguins are one of only 3 current playoff teams who don't have at least two defenseman with at least 5 goals. Now obviously goals aren't the only thing that shows what a defenseman can do to help the team's offense, but it's pretty significant here IMO.

In short we cannot discount having Letang AND Goligoski as opposed to just Letang. We gave up a good player in that deal, which is not news but this is a good way of quantifying it. It also is a "hiding in plain sight" reason for the power play blowing goats.

You have to give to get and I still like the deal Shero made. At the same time all of a sudden we have one guy on the back end who can be relied on to maybe put a puck in, and he's missing the net at times. Quite a departure from Letang and Goligoski trading tallies every few games.

Proceeding with caution I'd say Despres is still another year or two away, at least from being this type of contributor. I don't know if it would be out of the question for Shero to eliminate some clutter on the bottom of the D corps and get someone that can shoot a little for next year.
Seriously, what's wrong with picking up MA Bergeron as a 7th defensman who plays 80% of his ice time on the pp. He's money there.

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04-04-2011, 06:57 AM
  #34
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Seriously, what's wrong with picking up MA Bergeron as a 7th defensman who plays 80% of his ice time on the pp. He's money there.
I think he's already on another team seriously though I don't see Shero or Byslma bringing in a guy to just play on the powerplay especially with how many penalties our team takes. We won't be going without 4 forward lines under Bylsma very often I don't think

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04-04-2011, 07:22 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
If Michalek hasn't established himself as a threat from the point by now, it's probably never going to happen. He has a hard slapper, but he doesn't have the accuracy or instincts to be consistently successful with it.

There's a nice analog in Anaheim with Getzlaf working the point. I'd like to see if Malkin could make it work, since it'd clean up a lot of our right half-wall logjam.
In the limited time he has had with the 1st Unit, he simplifies the game. He's scored more on the PP than Tanger has in forever. We're trying to be too creative, when we don't have playmakers. SHOOT THE PUCK and grind!

I'm curious how we will use Malkin, Crosby, Neal, Kunitz and our other lefties on the PP. DB has some hard decisions to make...but I think we're all crossing our fingers that the injury bug stays way away from us next season.

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04-04-2011, 08:39 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I think you are mixing up puck mover with shooter. We probably have the best puck moving defense in the league. All of our guys are above average to great at it. The worst puck mover out of the currently playing 6 is Lovejoy.
I agree with this 100%. A lot of people are arguing that we don't have that great puckmover when that is exactly what our defense is built around. Our top 4 has great skating defenseman and both Letang and Martin are fantastic puckmovers, not to mention Michalek and Orpik both above average (Nisky and Lovejoy are both good skaters as well). And the other problem with the lack of point production from the defense is really a product of our lack of scoring forwards at this point without our 2 big guns. The goal of our defense (at least the way it was designed) is to quickly move the puck up the ice to our forwards and they are doing exactly that. I don't really believe it's their fault the forwards aren't putting the puck in the net. This is especially evident in Letang's point drop off without Crosby and Malkin in the lineup.

The valid issue in this discussion then is not that we don't have great puckmoving defense but rather we don't have anyone with goalscoring instincts or a shot that has to be respected like Gonchar. Letang can and should be that guy. Michalek, if used properly could add to that. I personally don't find it an issue that our defense don't have a lot of goals so long as they are making things happen offensively. I think this d core can do that with a healthy lineup. I also would have no problem dropping one of the bottom 6 guys (I would vote Lovejoy but that is just personal preference) for a guy with a more respectable shot but it's hardly a priority. Just my 2 cents.

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04-04-2011, 08:50 AM
  #37
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People forget how terrible Goligoski was in last years playoffs. "The bella of the Bell Center". How can anyone forget? Not having him back there gives me worlds more confidence in our ability to play defense over a 7 game series. Certainly we can throw down with the trapping teams that plagued the Pens last season. That sort of high-pressure, no-mistake, hockey was above Goligoski's ability IMO.

That said, we could use more scoring from the blue line. I think Letang has had a bit of creative slump since losing both Geno+Sid. He'll be fine when Sid gets back. Michalek and Lovejoy have both chipped in nicely recently. Martin is the only disappointment, but i don't think he was brought here for his goal scoring ability.

All in all.. our winger situation is the best its been in years IMO. Kennedy as emerged as a solid top sixer. Ryan Malone - in his best Penguin years, wasn't putting up many more points than Kennedy is now. Neal looks very strong, and the points will come with Sid. Kunitz is having his best year as a Penguin. Kovalev will pick it up in the playoffs.. could you imagine if he sticks around to play with Malkin? That still leaves Cooke & Duper as bottom six.

The team is really only lacking in depth at center.. and needs a decent powerplay. Both issues could be solved with Crosby coming back.

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04-04-2011, 09:56 AM
  #38
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The only thing I worry about with Geno at the point on the powerplay is the exact same thing we had to worry about with Kovalev at the point on the powerplay all those years ago...

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04-04-2011, 10:00 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
The only thing I worry about with Geno at the point on the powerplay is the exact same thing we had to worry about with Kovalev at the point on the powerplay all those years ago...
It's less of a problem with Geno because he's faster and cares more. He's not much more of a liability than Goligoski is. This team has been successful with Geno at the point before.

Actually, I'm almost ready to wish they'd try Kovalev on the point now. There's a very good reason not to do it, but least they'd have someone on his off hand who can shoot up there.

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04-04-2011, 11:15 AM
  #40
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It's less of a problem with Geno because he's faster and cares more. He's not much more of a liability than Goligoski is. This team has been successful with Geno at the point before.

Actually, I'm almost ready to wish they'd try Kovalev on the point now. There's a very good reason not to do it, but least they'd have someone on his off hand who can shoot up there.
Kovalev has done pretty much everything but shoot. He just doesn't have the speed to recover if he makes a mistake on the blue line on the power play and that's why he isn't there anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised to see TK earn a spot on the first PP unit next year playing on the left side half boards. Malkin and Crosby both operate better from the right side, so unless one of them are playing the point there is no reason to have them both out on the same unit. Malkin on the right point Letang on the left point Crosby on the right half wall TK on the left half wall and Neal/Kunitz in front of the net sounds like a pretty solid line up to me. You have potential for shots from everywhere on the ice now, not just the right side of the ice. Plus with Crosby and Malkin on the same side of the ice a PK unit may want to respect that side a little more leaving TK or Letang open for some more chances.

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04-04-2011, 11:39 AM
  #41
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I think by the end of next season we will respect lovejoy for his offense. Not as much as Goose, but as a puck mover and offensive presence in this own right.

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04-04-2011, 11:46 AM
  #42
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This is probably the best Top-4 defense we've had in the last 20 years...What is the problem?...

I'm a little worried that the pairing from Niskanen/Lovejoy/Engelland could be a potential train wreck in the playoffs, but there should be no issues with our Top Four...

If you took the two best forwards off any team in the league, I imagine their power-play numbers would drop considerably...It's not the fault of Martin, Letang or any other D-man...

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04-04-2011, 11:50 AM
  #43
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I battle with two theories. It is best for the development of Letestu and Jeffrey to have them on the 3rd line. If they were on the 4th line, they just wouldn't get the mins considering who is ahead of them. What is best for individuals, IMO, would be this lineup...

Neal-Crosby-Kennedy
Kunitz-Staal-Malkin
Jeffrey-Letestu-Tangradi
Cooke-Vitale-Adams(?)

But what would make this team deeper would be...

Neal-Crosby-FA
Tangradi-Malkin-Kovalev
Kunitz-Staal-Kennedy
Jeffrey-Letestu-Vitale


I go back and forth as to what I would want to see. The only constants being Kunitz with Staal and Tangradi on the NHL roster.

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04-04-2011, 12:53 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I battle with two theories. It is best for the development of Letestu and Jeffrey to have them on the 3rd line. If they were on the 4th line, they just wouldn't get the mins considering who is ahead of them. What is best for individuals, IMO, would be this lineup...

Neal-Crosby-Kennedy
Kunitz-Staal-Malkin
Jeffrey-Letestu-Tangradi
Cooke-Vitale-Adams(?)

But what would make this team deeper would be...

Neal-Crosby-FA
Tangradi-Malkin-Kovalev
Kunitz-Staal-Kennedy
Jeffrey-Letestu-Vitale


I go back and forth as to what I would want to see. The only constants being Kunitz with Staal and Tangradi on the NHL roster.
I agree with the general premise of the two ideas but I really don't feel comfortable sliding Tangradi onto the second line as Malkin's "main anchor" so to speak as his other is a 38 year old that may or may not pan out. Also, are we trading Cooke in the second scenario? If not I'd rather go with the Cooke Staal Kennedy 3rd line and try Kunitz with Malkin, if we are insistent on Neal with Crosby, or put Kunitz with Sid and Neal with Malkin. That 4th line in scenario 2 also may be a little "Soff", but overall we have a ton of options and that's the great news.

IF Tangradi starts out strong and can handle the second line then yes that second scenario would be absolutely dynamite. No one (outside of Philly) would have the mix of offensive and defensive depth of this team. At this moment, that seems like a big if to me.

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04-04-2011, 01:24 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
I agree with the general premise of the two ideas but I really don't feel comfortable sliding Tangradi onto the second line as Malkin's "main anchor" so to speak as his other is a 38 year old that may or may not pan out. Also, are we trading Cooke in the second scenario? If not I'd rather go with the Cooke Staal Kennedy 3rd line and try Kunitz with Malkin, if we are insistent on Neal with Crosby, or put Kunitz with Sid and Neal with Malkin. That 4th line in scenario 2 also may be a little "Soff", but overall we have a ton of options and that's the great news.

IF Tangradi starts out strong and can handle the second line then yes that second scenario would be absolutely dynamite. No one (outside of Philly) would have the mix of offensive and defensive depth of this team. At this moment, that seems like a big if to me.
Tangradi wouldn't be a main anchor. That would be on Kovalev, IMO, which is just as scary. Tangradi's job #1 would be to create space. Work the corners, work down low, work in front of the net, and drag defenders with him. He'd be getting his points the same way Malone did. The magic on that line would the Malkin-Kovalev duo.

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04-04-2011, 05:36 PM
  #46
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I battle with two theories. It is best for the development of Letestu and Jeffrey to have them on the 3rd line. If they were on the 4th line, they just wouldn't get the mins considering who is ahead of them. What is best for individuals, IMO, would be this lineup...

Neal-Crosby-Kennedy
Kunitz-Staal-Malkin
Jeffrey-Letestu-Tangradi
Cooke-Vitale-Adams(?)

But what would make this team deeper would be...

Neal-Crosby-FA
Tangradi-Malkin-Kovalev
Kunitz-Staal-Kennedy
Jeffrey-Letestu-Vitale


I go back and forth as to what I would want to see. The only constants being Kunitz with Staal and Tangradi on the NHL roster.
Can't say I'm a fan of the second lineup. As good as that third line looks, the second line doesn't inspire me with any confidence at all. Tangradi hasn't shown enough offensively to warrant a spot on the second line and Kovalev is, well .. Kovalev. I'm not even sure he's worth bringing back. Even if we did and those two were put on the same line I don't think I'd want a rookie being the one back to cover up for their turnovers and subpar defensive play. I also think you're going out on a limb hoping Kovalev sparks Malkin or that there will be some kind of magic there between them.

The only constant for me is that Neal and Kunitz need to be in the top 6. Preferably Sid with Kunitz (tried and true) and Neal with Geno. There's a lot of different options out there though, especially with Letestu and Jeffrey in the mix. Maybe one of them centers the third line, Staal moves up between Kunitz and TK, and the top line becomes Neal - Crosby - Malkin. I usually prefer the two headed monster apart regularly, but I could see that line destroying and Neal is the perfect compliment for those two.

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04-05-2011, 04:36 AM
  #47
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I think he's already on another team seriously though I don't see Shero or Byslma bringing in a guy to just play on the powerplay especially with how many penalties our team takes. We won't be going without 4 forward lines under Bylsma very often I don't think
Haha yeah I know, I'm talking next season

He can play foward too, that's what he did in Montreal a lot. But he ALWAYS produced on the pp, no matter where he was. I mean right now he commands minimum salary, right now, I'd much rather have him on the roster than Comrie.

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04-05-2011, 05:21 AM
  #48
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Haha yeah I know, I'm talking next season

He can play foward too, that's what he did in Montreal a lot. But he ALWAYS produced on the pp, no matter where he was. I mean right now he commands minimum salary, right now, I'd much rather have him on the roster than Comrie.
Never saw him play forward, but that does make it work a little better. Especially since we have 4 guys who can play a lot of minutes

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I go back and forth as to what I would want to see. The only constants being Kunitz with Staal and Tangradi on the NHL roster.
Kunitz with Staal is a good constant because it's something we have seen work. I don't see how Tangradi on the NHL roster is a constant for you. He simply wasn't one of our top 12 (even 14 or 15) forwards this year, so wanting him on the team is just wishful thinking. Do I hope he improves enough to make the team? Absolutely. But if he is playing at the same level as he was this year I think we have better options. I hope he improves enough to make an impact too, but I think it would be a mistake to go into camp next year with a spot opened up for him already; make him take it from someone.

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04-05-2011, 07:48 AM
  #49
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Never saw him play forward, but that does make it work a little better. Especially since we have 4 guys who can play a lot of minutes



Kunitz with Staal is a good constant because it's something we have seen work. I don't see how Tangradi on the NHL roster is a constant for you. He simply wasn't one of our top 12 (even 14 or 15) forwards this year, so wanting him on the team is just wishful thinking. Do I hope he improves enough to make the team? Absolutely. But if he is playing at the same level as he was this year I think we have better options. I hope he improves enough to make an impact too, but I think it would be a mistake to go into camp next year with a spot opened up for him already; make him take it from someone.

"Bergeron was signed as a free agent by the Edmonton Oilers in 2001. The fast-skating defenceman with a penchant for end-to-end rushes reminded some of former Oiler great Paul Coffey and quickly became a fan favorite. The opinion was cemented after an open-ice hip check on Dallas Stars' Brenden Morrow in the 2003 playoffs that sent Morrow head-over-heels.

Near the end of game one of the 2006 Stanley Cup Finals, Bergeron tried to steer Carolina Hurricanes forward Andrew Ladd wide of the net, but the two of them piled into Oilers goaltender Dwayne Roloson, causing him to be injured for the remainder of the Finals. Bergeron is well known for his impressive slapshot, not his defensive abilities. At the Edmonton Oilers skills competition, held November 26, 2006, he recorded his second straight victory in the hardest shot competition with a puck speed of 103.5 mph (approximately 165 km/h).

On October 6, 2009, Bergeron signed a 1-year contract worth $750,000 US with the Montreal Canadiens after star defenceman Andrei Markov was injured and missed 35 games. Bergeron proved to be an integral part of the team since his arrival. He played as a forward on the fourth line as well as defence on power plays. He went through a scoring slump between December 31, 2009 until March 31, 2010 when he finally scored another goal.[1] Bergeron turned a free agent on July 1, 2010 after the Canadiens chose to not sign him. He did not sign with an NHL team until January 4, 2011 when he signed a one year contract with the Tampa Bay Lightning."

Sounds like a great 13th forward/7th defensman. He is a liability on defense, but he also gives you the option of not having to worry wether to dress 7 d-men or 13 forwards, because he can play both AND he would defenitely NOT hurt our pp plus he's cheap. He'd be the perfect Comrie signing next off season.

And I agree about Tangradi, in my lineup, he's not a fixture yet, no way he gets to play 2nd line minutes and Kunitz moves down to the 3rd line.

My top 2 lines are eiter:

Kunitz/Neal - Crosby - Malkin
Kunitz/Neal - Staal - Kennedy

or:

Kunitz - Crosby - Neal
Kennedy - Malkin/Staal - Malkin/Staal
Kunitz/Neal - Crosby - FA

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04-05-2011, 08:45 AM
  #50
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Never saw him play forward, but that does make it work a little better. Especially since we have 4 guys who can play a lot of minutes



Kunitz with Staal is a good constant because it's something we have seen work. I don't see how Tangradi on the NHL roster is a constant for you. He simply wasn't one of our top 12 (even 14 or 15) forwards this year, so wanting him on the team is just wishful thinking. Do I hope he improves enough to make the team? Absolutely. But if he is playing at the same level as he was this year I think we have better options. I hope he improves enough to make an impact too, but I think it would be a mistake to go into camp next year with a spot opened up for him already; make him take it from someone.
Jigglyfly was beat his keyboard earlier in the season talking about how Tangradi needs to be given real time on the NHL roster, and just kept there to figure things out. I didn't agree with him. I do agree with him now. I don't think the AHL does Tangradi any good whatsoever. He needs to be on the NHL roster in some capacity. He's one of those guys, who I have felt, will be a better NHL player, than AHL player.

We actually have no idea what Tangradi was as far as the depth chart because of the contract situations. He definitely fell victim to numbers with us having guys that couldn't be sent down due to the fact that they had to pass through waivers.

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