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Old
04-06-2011, 07:49 PM
  #51
bigd
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Originally Posted by SteelTownFever View Post
Would be great if they both panned out like you say. Our defense could potentially be...

Orpik - Letang
Martin - Michalek
Bortuzzo - Strait
I think they will pan out but the big question is, will they still be with the Penguins when that happens. Our depth in the organization seems to be at defense so if trades are made it would seem that defenseman would be leaving.

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04-06-2011, 08:24 PM
  #52
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It was a pleasure to watch him fly up and down the ice, that's for sure.

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04-06-2011, 09:11 PM
  #53
Gary Roberts
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No way the Pens would have won the Cup without Gill. That's speaking probably more to the lack of depth they had than the overall body of work of Gill.

That being said, Gill and Scuds are a huge reason why the Pens made it out of the eastern conference that year.

I'd rather have Martin and Z than Gill and Scuds any day of the week though.

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04-07-2011, 07:07 AM
  #54
MrBurgundy
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
I think they will pan out but the big question is, will they still be with the Penguins when that happens. Our depth in the organization seems to be at defense so if trades are made it would seem that defenseman would be leaving.
They probably would want to get them NHL playing time before they traded any of them to maximize their potential return. Of course they could always pull a Caputi on them, but I think their values have more potential than his did.

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04-07-2011, 08:59 AM
  #55
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Once, Jaromir Jagr was asked in an interview, "Who's the strongest player you've ever played against?" His answer was Hal Gill.

Gill was better than average in his own end. Great Pk defenseman. His issue was, in my opinion, transitioning out of the offensive zone back to D. This is when he would get roasted. Also, as others have said, when the playoffs start, he's more effective when the refs put the whistles away. Anyway, he was great for us in '09, and great for Montreal last year.(from my perspective)

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04-07-2011, 09:43 AM
  #56
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Gill is getting slower though which is sort of the antithesis of our defense right now. I'd still take him if the price was right just to see him on the PK with Michalek

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04-07-2011, 02:22 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post

A guy like Gill would also really help Niskanen develop, IMO.
No offense to Niskanen, but with the d-men we've got waiting in the wings (Bortuzzo and Despres mainly, Strait to a slightly lesser extent) and a potential 3-4 guy like Lovejoy already on the roster, devoloping a marginal 6th-7th pp specialist defensemen isn't something I think anyone should be too worried about. Especially one who's -6 in his last 10 games while his team went 7-3-0 in that time.

I don't know where this idea Niskanen has the potential to be a solid every-day NHL defender is coming from. He's basically being used the most any team ever should right now on our squad. Watching him he basically makes all the same mistake Gogo did in his own end, seems just as nervous and indecisive in his own end, and doesn't provide us the same offense Gogo did. He skates well and he's ok with his stick, but I don't see much else. And he's certainly on the ice for a lot of goals against lately.

Going into the playoffs I hope they learned from the Leopold experiment last year that you don't want a pairing to be 2 puck-moving guys heading into the playoffs. The love affair DB apparently has with Niskanen over Engo reminds a lot of the one with Leopold over Mckee last year, which I certainly think many agree was a mistake. Given our current makeup I'd much prefer Lovejoy and Engo as the bottom pair than any combo involving Niskanen.

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04-07-2011, 03:04 PM
  #58
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Hall gill eliminates second opportunity chances. He did it 2 years for us, then he did it to us last year. He is slow, but he understands his limitations.

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04-07-2011, 03:12 PM
  #59
JTG
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
No offense to Niskanen, but with the d-men we've got waiting in the wings (Bortuzzo and Despres mainly, Strait to a slightly lesser extent) and a potential 3-4 guy like Lovejoy already on the roster, devoloping a marginal 6th-7th pp specialist defensemen isn't something I think anyone should be too worried about. Especially one who's -6 in his last 10 games while his team went 7-3-0 in that time.

I don't know where this idea Niskanen has the potential to be a solid every-day NHL defender is coming from. He's basically being used the most any team ever should right now on our squad. Watching him he basically makes all the same mistake Gogo did in his own end, seems just as nervous and indecisive in his own end, and doesn't provide us the same offense Gogo did. He skates well and he's ok with his stick, but I don't see much else. And he's certainly on the ice for a lot of goals against lately.

Going into the playoffs I hope they learned from the Leopold experiment last year that you don't want a pairing to be 2 puck-moving guys heading into the playoffs. The love affair DB apparently has with Niskanen over Engo reminds a lot of the one with Leopold over Mckee last year, which I certainly think many agree was a mistake. Given our current makeup I'd much prefer Lovejoy and Engo as the bottom pair than any combo involving Niskanen.
+/- is a stupid stat

He does have potential to be a pretty decent defenseman. He has put up some decent points since he's been in the league. What he needed was a change from Dallas, and he also needs to get stronger. He has fantastic skating ability and some solid offensive instincts. If it is possible to develop him, you do it.

Despres, Bortuzzo, and Strait can wait. I'm not so sure that they are 100% ready yet anyways. Both will continue to get some spot duty, but I'd probably say they are a year away from being considered for full-time NHL duty. Niskanen is a legitimate NHL defenseman at this point, those three guys mentioned are not.

It would be a big coup for this organization if we can get Niskanen's game turned around to the point where we could trade him for something significant, and then have one of our defensive prospects step in and fill his spot. Regardless of what happens to Niskanen though, a bottom pairing defenseman like Gill would pay dividends with whoever is back there.

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04-07-2011, 04:39 PM
  #60
Shady Machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
No offense to Niskanen, but with the d-men we've got waiting in the wings (Bortuzzo and Despres mainly, Strait to a slightly lesser extent) and a potential 3-4 guy like Lovejoy already on the roster, devoloping a marginal 6th-7th pp specialist defensemen isn't something I think anyone should be too worried about. Especially one who's -6 in his last 10 games while his team went 7-3-0 in that time.

I don't know where this idea Niskanen has the potential to be a solid every-day NHL defender is coming from. He's basically being used the most any team ever should right now on our squad. Watching him he basically makes all the same mistake Gogo did in his own end, seems just as nervous and indecisive in his own end, and doesn't provide us the same offense Gogo did. He skates well and he's ok with his stick, but I don't see much else. And he's certainly on the ice for a lot of goals against lately.

Going into the playoffs I hope they learned from the Leopold experiment last year that you don't want a pairing to be 2 puck-moving guys heading into the playoffs. The love affair DB apparently has with Niskanen over Engo reminds a lot of the one with Leopold over Mckee last year, which I certainly think many agree was a mistake. Given our current makeup I'd much prefer Lovejoy and Engo as the bottom pair than any combo involving Niskanen.
First off, Niskanen is only 24 years old. Since when are guys defenseman written off at that age? If that were the case, Lovejoy and Engelland would be long gone. Secondly, he was a former 1st round pick so there is obviously some potential there (I recognize even 1st rounders can flop). He also scored a combined 61 points in his first 2 seasons in the NHL. The dude is no slouch. He needed a chance of scenery and with a full offseason and training camp with the Pens, he can be a great bottom pairing guy in my opinion (he could also tank and if that's the case we just waive him). He certainly has more potential than Engelland and Lovejoy, so why not try to develop that? By the way Strait is 23, should we think about getting rid of him next year if he doesn't produce? It is true that we have some depth prospects in the AHL and a decent pair in Lovejoy and Engelland, but don't act like Niskanen is taking up a spot that would otherwise be filled with someone much better.

I am also not sure what Leopold experiment you are referring to because obviously Buffalo is doing fine with him and Jay Mckee is not playing in the NHL this season.

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