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ATD 2011 Line-up Assassination Thread

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Old
04-10-2011, 08:27 PM
  #326
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
If you guys would buy it, I would consider moving Graham to center and putting Gould at RW on the checking line, and benching MacT since everyone hates him so much.
It's not that we hate him, it's that we don't think he's as good as you paint him out to be. He's a legit 3rd line center in a 40 team draft, but is not elite as you paint him out to be. I wouldn't bench him because he fits in well with the line that you're looking to build.

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04-10-2011, 08:35 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
It's not that we hate him, it's that we don't think he's as good as you paint him out to be. He's a legit 3rd line center in a 40 team draft, but is not elite as you paint him out to be. I wouldn't bench him because he fits in well with the line that you're looking to build.
I have never, ever called him elite. Where have I called him elite? :/

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04-10-2011, 08:39 PM
  #328
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I'm just getting over your Zhitnik-as-well-rounded belief. Still, can't let this go:

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Suchy is definitely a top 80 defenseman. And probably not near the bottom of that either.
Is he top 6 or even top 8 of the decade (of the years he played)? There has been 12 decades of significant hockey history, 10 of them clearly professional, so to say he is Top-80 all time isn't so clear unless he is clearly top 10 in the world at the time he played.

Then again, he was taken 51st this year, 57th last year and 63rd the year before. Stop the ascendancy! So much bloody weight to one "like Bobby Orr" comment?! I think many non-NHL Euros are underrated around here, but he ain't one of them. If I ever draft Suchy he'd be the 3rd dman, off the top pairing, to avoid the question mark: How would he have done against the best players of his era? Maybe his international play against the Soviets is better than I realized and if so, please enlighten. Otherwise, he's best as a 2nd pairing guy in an all-time context, a #2 only with a question mark.

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04-10-2011, 08:42 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post

-Palffy competed against Europeans; Dillon didn't. Neither competed against a generational scorer in his prime, unless you count Jagr for Palffy.

-Without going into details, it's quite obvious that Palffy was not helped by linemates.
A few things....

- I don't consider Bill Cook a generational goalscorer : however, I do consider him one of the three best player in the game (when Dillon played, obviously), one of the two best forward (the other being Morenz) and the best RW. There's the thing with Dillon : he might have not been competing against a generational goalscorer, but was stuck playing 2nd minutes behind... Bill Cook! I never saw '30ies games, but if we go by logic, Dillon didn't have a huge amount of icetime. And was also played on a line that were to do what they were told (a Murray Murdoch quote) -- which means, checking assignments, or play not to give a goal.

- AFAIK, his partners were Murray Murdoch, a guy that might not be drafted and a guy who should never get drafted above beer league level. Murdoch was a terrific checker on his own, but not exactly an offensive dynamo. So he didn't get MUCH support.

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04-10-2011, 08:48 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Time to start rewarding those people doing reviews. I'll do TDMM's team when he finally posts his roster thread in here.

Forwards
Top Line: A tremendous amount of talent here. Beliveau and Kurri are of course really elite for their roles; Duff isn't, but he's a pretty solid glue guy. The line may not fully utilize Beliveau's goalscoring, but it's got a ton of intangibles and scoring potential and is one of the best lines in the draft.

Second Line: Pretty good second line. I like McGee and Hodge for their roles; both probably rank pretty well and have lots of scoring and toughness. Harris is a nearly perfect compliment to them, giving them a decent playmaker and the line even more toughness even if he's probably a bit sub-par amongst second line LW's. I'm concerned about the lack of defense on this line, but other than that, I really like it.

Third Line: A really highly talented two-way line that I think is really held back by one flaw: al three guys are bias towards goalscoring, in Sutter and Lepine's case, heavily bias. Still, great two-way ability and high intangibles here; I like how all three work here, and I think it's a rather good third line all in all.

Fourth Line: A pretty nice two-way fourth line. Not the toughest out there, but not too bad in tha tdepartment. Should score pretty well and I like the two-way skill.

Overall Forward Corps: A really impressive bunch of forwards with all the lines looking pretty great. Though all the lines seems to have one problem in it that keeps it from working perfectly chemistry wise, there is a lot of great talent here that mostly works well.

Defense
Top Pair: Pretty unimpressive and certainly below-average. Langway is a legit and below-average #1, but he of course doesn't bring the perfect skil lset one likes to see out of #1. I see you're going for a shutdown pair here, and they'll do well in that sense, but all things considered it's rather unversatile for a top pairing and below-par.

Second Pair: Like this one much better; looks pretty great. I like Howell as a #2 on a second pair, and he compliments Gonchar really well. The two should do some good damage.

Third Pair: Tikal seems like a pretty good #5 here. Owen's probably sub-par given pure and short offense, but he off-sets Tikal pretty decently.

Overall D-Corps: Great second pairing, but below-average top and third pairings. Still, it functions solidly, and I would have expected much worse given your forwards.

Goaltending, Coaching, and Spares
Goaltending: Holecek is an above-average starter; he'll do pretty well for you. Hodge is a solid backup.

-A very nice coaching duo with a good ying-yang thing. Should work pretty well.

-Jordan's a great scoring spare, Balfour a pretty decent bottom-6 spare, and Boumeester seems average as a #7. Not a lot of versatility, but good skill.

Special Teams
PP1: Everything here is pretty elite outside of Duff and Ivanov. Still a very nice unit overall.

PP2: Really good second unit with lots of good corner work and a pretty good pair of second unit pointmen.

PK1: Great top unit PK with good SH scoring ability.

PK2: I don't think Duff and Beliveau ever really killed penalties, so though they're skilled, that works aganst you. Solid pair of pointment here though.

PK3: Not too hughe on the Thoms-Maloney duo, but they are decent enough on a third unit, and the same excellent PK duo on the backend.

Overall Special Teams: Pretty good from top to bottom; lots of skill and good functionality, just some questionable forwards on the PK.

Overall Team: I really like how this team was built. It's got some great strengths, and the weaknesses it had to adapt are pretty well minimized. Lots of talent and intangibles. Great forwards with solid defense and goaltending; nice job.
I can agree with most of what you said. I tried to pick a lot of two-way forwards with the intention that I was going to be picking some very offensive defensemen to play D. I think I did a pretty good job. I wouldn't be afraid to put any of my lines out against any of my opponent's lines.

Looking back on it, I wish I would've gotten a glue guy more leaned towards playmaking, but the one thing is I think this line might be the best first line in the playoffs. Between the three, they have 22 top 10s in playoff points. I like how this line turned out.

McGee and Harris both have a couple of quotes that indicate they were good defensively, but not enough to substantiate that they were above average in that department. They won't be great, but I think they can hold their own.

Lepine was described as having some playmaking ability, but his stats don't substantiate that. Even with the lean towards goal scoring, I think they can work well together.

As I said, I tried to draft a lot of responsible two-way forwards in order to offset some defensive deficiencies. Holecek will do a good job in doing that as well.

In regards to the PK forwards, I think they will be fine. Duff was described as:

Quote:
a good penalty killer
-Trail of the Stanley Cup Vol. 3

Quote:
Tiny but tough... an aggressive player and was effective both offensively and as a penalty killer...
-Hockey's Glory Days

Quote:
A splendid two-way player
http://books.google.com/books?id=wpb...hockey&f=false

Beliveau is mostly here because he's elite at faceoffs, and I wanted him there. Would you think it would be a better option to move put Sutter in there? He is a more renowned penalty killer, but was a winger. Or, move Thoms up to the second unit, and put Beliveau on the 3rd unit? In regards to Maloney and Thoms, according to LOH he could kill penalties and has 15 career SHG.

Quote:
a splendid offensive player who could also check and kill penalties

an outstanding defensive performance and helped the Rangers reach the Prince of Wales Conference finals.I't
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=13505

Thomas was described as one of the NHL's best two-way centers, and a master of the poke check, even being compared to Frank Nighbor, Joe Primeau, and Frank Boucher. Quite a group to be mentioned in the same breath as.

It's only a few quotes, and I'm aware that being a good two-way player does not necessarily mean that they will be good PKers, but chances are they will be good at it, and will certainly be fine on a 3rd PK unit. I appreciate the review.

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04-10-2011, 08:50 PM
  #331
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Dick Duff never killed penalties in real life.

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04-10-2011, 08:51 PM
  #332
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LF-Can I get an update on who needs to be assassinated? I've done my division so I can move on to those who have done the most and those that don't have any yet.

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04-10-2011, 08:52 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Dick Duff never killed penalties in real life.
Do tell. Not saying you're wrong, but I never saw anything that said this, and there's two quotes saying he did.

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04-10-2011, 08:56 PM
  #334
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Quote:
In regards to the PK forwards, I think they will be fine. Duff was described as:
Duff has a coulple off quotes, but if I am not mistaken his complete lack of SH goals pretty much ousts him as not having played the PK to any significant amount of time since the stat started to get tracked. There was a bunch of guys on those Leaf teams that did score SH goals that appeared to fill out all the PK spots for forwards ahead of Duff. Duff has the skill set for it and you could use him, but it's something you'd have to take as a knock against him PKing.

Quote:
Beliveau is mostly here because he's elite at faceoffs, and I wanted him there. Would you think it would be a better option to move put Sutter in there? He is a more renowned penalty killer, but was a winger. Or, move Thoms up to the second unit, and put Beliveau on the 3rd unit? In regards to Maloney and Thoms, according to LOH he could kill penalties and has 15 career SHG.
I might put up Thoms just to get Beliveau more ice-time in PP and ES, even though I think Believeau is likely a more impactful player on the PK. You need a centre, or someone else who does draws. Sutter might be a good replacement for Duff though.

I suppose Thoms is a better PKer than I thought; they just aren't the "wow" kind of guys, if you catch my drift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
LF-Can I get an update on who needs to be assassinated? I've done my division so I can move on to those who have done the most and those that don't have any yet.
I've been keeping my post on page 12 updated; I'll bump it up.

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04-10-2011, 08:57 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Do tell. Not saying you're wrong, but I never saw anything that said this, and there's two quotes saying he did.
I can't remember what the exact proof used was, but I think it had something to do with the fact that he had like 1 or 2 short handed points over a 10 or 15 year span, where every other regular penalty killer had many more SHP than that. overpass is the one who proved it, so maybe he can expand on this.

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04-10-2011, 09:00 PM
  #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Duff has a coulple off quotes, but if I am not mistaken his complete lack of SH goals pretty much ousts him as not having played the PK to any significant amount of time. He has the skill set for it and you could use him, but it's something you'd have to take as a knock against him PKing.



I might put up Thoms just to get Beliveau more ice-time in PP and ES, even though I think Believeau is likely a more impactful player on the PK. You need a centre, or someone else who does draws. Sutter might be a good replacement for Duff though.

I suppose Thoms is a better PKer than I thought; they just aren't the "wow" kind of guys, if you catch my drift.



I've been keeping my post on page 12 updated; I'll bump it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I can't remember what the exact proof used was, but I think it had something to do with the fact that he had like 1 or 2 short handed points over a 10 or 15 year span, where every other regular penalty killer had many more SHP than that. overpass is the one who proved it, so maybe he can expand on this.
Interesting. Now that I look at it, you're right. I stand corrected. I think I'll bump up Thoms and switch Duff with Sutter.

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04-10-2011, 09:01 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Interesting. Now that I look at it, you're right. I think I'll bump up Thoms and switch Duff with Sutter.
I'm sure in the very limited role that he did play on the PK, he was very good, and that's likely where the quotes came from. It's just that the sample size is too small (most likely) to conclude any sort of longevity from it.

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04-10-2011, 09:16 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I can't remember what the exact proof used was, but I think it had something to do with the fact that he had like 1 or 2 short handed points over a 10 or 15 year span, where every other regular penalty killer had many more SHP than that. overpass is the one who proved it, so maybe he can expand on this.
Duff scored a famous shorthanded goal in the Stanley Cup finals, and history has remembered that.

But on the whole his shorthanded scoring record suggests someone who was not a regular penalty killer.

Toronto shorthanded scoring - 1955-56 through 1963-64

Player SHG SHA SHP
Bob Pulford 17 5 22
Ron Stewart 10 9 19
George Armstrong 5 7 12
Tim Horton 2 10 12
Allan Stanley 1 9 10
Rudy Migay 7 2 9
Dave Keon 7 1 8
Red Kelly 3 3 6
Bob Nevin 2 2 4
Larry Regan 2 2 4
Bert Olmstead 2 2 4
Dick Duff 2 1 3
Bobby Baun 1 2 3
Johnny Wilson 2 1 3
Carl Brewer 1 1 2
Billy Harris 1 1 2
Jim Morrison 0 2 2
Kent Douglas 0 2 2
Jimmy Thomson 0 2 2

Duff scored no regular season shorthanded points in Montreal. Forwards who did included Provost, Tremblay, Roberts, Larose. And we know he basically never killed penalties post-expansion, where PPGA were tracked and he had a grand total of 1.

It's worth considering that his teams had some very good penalty killing options - it's no shame to be behind Bob Pulford or Ron Stewart on the penalty kill.

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04-10-2011, 09:17 PM
  #339
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
A few things....

- I don't consider Bill Cook a generational goalscorer : however, I do consider him one of the three best player in the game (when Dillon played, obviously), one of the two best forward (the other being Morenz) and the best RW. There's the thing with Dillon : he might have not been competing against a generational goalscorer, but was stuck playing 2nd minutes behind... Bill Cook! I never saw '30ies games, but if we go by logic, Dillon didn't have a huge amount of icetime. And was also played on a line that were to do what they were told (a Murray Murdoch quote) -- which means, checking assignments, or play not to give a goal.

- AFAIK, his partners were Murray Murdoch, a guy that might not be drafted and a guy who should never get drafted above beer league level. Murdoch was a terrific checker on his own, but not exactly an offensive dynamo. So he didn't get MUCH support.
Good point. Dillon had to compete with Bill Cook for ice time for 5 seasons, at least 4 of which Cook was still the go-to guy. And he did play on the checking line for awhile (though Lester Patrick actually let his checking line playba little offensively, unlike other coaches of the era). Clint Smith, on the other hand basically "replaced" Frank Boucher. Definitely a factor to consider in Dillon's favor.

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04-10-2011, 09:20 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Duff scored a famous shorthanded goal in the Stanley Cup finals, and history has remembered that.

But on the whole his shorthanded scoring record suggests someone who was not a regular penalty killer.

Toronto shorthanded scoring - 1955-56 through 1963-64

Player SHG SHA SHP
Bob Pulford 17 5 22
Ron Stewart 10 9 19
George Armstrong 5 7 12
Tim Horton 2 10 12
Allan Stanley 1 9 10
Rudy Migay 7 2 9
Dave Keon 7 1 8
Red Kelly 3 3 6
Bob Nevin 2 2 4
Larry Regan 2 2 4
Bert Olmstead 2 2 4
Dick Duff 2 1 3
Bobby Baun 1 2 3
Johnny Wilson 2 1 3
Carl Brewer 1 1 2
Billy Harris 1 1 2
Jim Morrison 0 2 2
Kent Douglas 0 2 2
Jimmy Thomson 0 2 2

Duff scored no regular season shorthanded points in Montreal. Forwards who did included Provost, Tremblay, Roberts, Larose. And we know he basically never killed penalties post-expansion, where PPGA were tracked and he had a grand total of 1.

It's worth considering that his teams had some very good penalty killing options - it's no shame to be behind Bob Pulford or Ron Stewart on the penalty kill.
So if I needed him to PK he probably could do a somewhat decent job, but there are better options.

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04-10-2011, 09:21 PM
  #341
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I buy Beliveau-Duff as a third PK option. I'd prefer not to use them as the second option.

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04-10-2011, 09:29 PM
  #342
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I'm just getting over your Zhitnik-as-well-rounded belief. Still, can't let this go:


Is he top 6 or even top 8 of the decade (of the years he played)? There has been 12 decades of significant hockey history, 10 of them clearly professional, so to say he is Top-80 all time isn't so clear unless he is clearly top 10 in the world at the time he played.

Then again, he was taken 51st this year, 57th last year and 63rd the year before. Stop the ascendancy! So much bloody weight to one "like Bobby Orr" comment?! I think many non-NHL Euros are underrated around here, but he ain't one of them. If I ever draft Suchy he'd be the 3rd dman, off the top pairing, to avoid the question mark: How would he have done against the best players of his era? Maybe his international play against the Soviets is better than I realized and if so, please enlighten. Otherwise, he's best as a 2nd pairing guy in an all-time context, a #2 only with a question mark.
Zhitnik is more well rounded than Rick Green. I had them both before - I know what they bring. Green is much better in the defensive zone, but a nonfactor outside of it. Zhitnik can play both specials teams - hence more well rounded than Green.

As for Suchy, I kind of agree with both you and Dwight. Suchy was widely considered the best defenseman in Europe during his prime, better than Ragulin. He almost certainly peaked higher than Pospisil. He's definitely a top 80 defenseman of all time.

That said, I would also prefer Suchy on a second pairing - his offense and shot blocking are well substantiated, but we honestly don't know how he'd play defensively at this level.

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04-10-2011, 09:34 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Good point. Dillon had to compete with Bill Cook for ice time for 5 seasons, at least 4 of which Cook was still the go-to guy. And he did play on the checking line for awhile (though Lester Patrick actually let his checking line playba little offensively, unlike other coaches of the era). Clint Smith, on the other hand basically "replaced" Frank Boucher. Definitely a factor to consider in Dillon's favor.
Johnny Gottselig had a similar issue with playing behind Paul Thompson in his prime years. Clearly the 2nd best forward on the team but also the 2nd best LW.

When Thompson's play dropped off in 1938-39 (33 GP, 15 P), Gottselig led the league in scoring for much of the season and finished 8th in points.

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04-10-2011, 10:16 PM
  #344
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QUOTE=Boy Wonder;32274158]I'm pretty confident I know more about Laprade than you do. I went through about 100-150 articles about him on New York Times. He is a non factor physically. There is nothing aggressive about him. He turtled every single time he was ever challenged to a fight.[/QUOTE]

In terms of bodychecking, I would probably agree he's a non factor but that's just one aspect of thr physical game.

There is a big difference between fighting and being tough.

All four sources in my bio talk about his tenacious and agressive style.

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04-10-2011, 10:34 PM
  #345
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I'm pretty confident I know more about Laprade than you do. I went through about 100-150 articles about him on New York Times. He is a non factor physically. There is nothing aggressive about him. He turtled every single time he was ever challenged to a fight.

In terms of bodychecking, I would probably agree he's a non factor but that's just one aspect of thr physical game.

There is a big difference between fighting and being tough.

All four sources in my bio talk about his tenacious and agressive style.
My comments about his being a non-factor physically encompass all aspects of physicality. He was not physical, not according to New York Times. I've read quite a few game accounts of him, as well as some general descriptions, and the only time they mentioned physicality was when they were pissed off that he wasn't being physical.

Just like I have sources saying MacT was one of the best two-way players of his time, not all sources are correct. I'd love to see where they came up with their conclusions.

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04-10-2011, 10:54 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
My comments about his being a non-factor physically encompass all aspects of physicality. He was not physical, not according to New York Times. I've read quite a few game accounts of him, as well as some general descriptions, and the only time they mentioned physicality was when they were pissed off that he wasn't being physical.

Just like I have sources saying MacT was one of the best two-way players of his time, not all sources are correct. I'd love to see where they came up with their conclusions.
One source, that is contradicted by many other, is likely not correct.

A reliable source that is confirmed by multiple other reliable sources, on the other hand, is likely correct.

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04-10-2011, 11:03 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
One source, that is contradicted by many other, is likely not correct.

A reliable source that is confirmed by multiple other reliable sources, on the other hand, is likely correct.
I don't get your point. MacT is talked about by three sources (Underrated Nation, Oilers history website and Joe Pelletier), as one of the best two way players in the game at the time. Yet nobody seems to believe that.

Nothing I've read on Laprade (and I've gone through well over 100 articles about him) suggested to me that Laprade was anything other than soft in any facet of physicality. I don't know where he got this reputation as an aggressive forechecker from, but it must be false, it isn't talked about in New York Times at all, so I'll just stick with that.

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04-11-2011, 12:35 AM
  #348
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I don't get your point. MacT is talked about by three sources (Underrated Nation, Oilers history website and Joe Pelletier), as one of the best two way players in the game at the time. Yet nobody seems to believe that.

Nothing I've read on Laprade (and I've gone through well over 100 articles about him) suggested to me that Laprade was anything other than soft in any facet of physicality. I don't know where he got this reputation as an aggressive forechecker from, but it must be false, it isn't talked about in New York Times at all, so I'll just stick with that.
I watched MacT play. He was not elite in any way except maybe faceoffs. Also, the stats prove he was not an offenive threat, which disqualified him for that twoway label.

I get those things about Laprade from multiple sources, which are in my bio. Feel free to take a read.

The source you used didn't have the info, but unless there was contradicting evidence, it doesn' matter.

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04-11-2011, 01:09 AM
  #349
EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
EB, it's far from clear that dillon was a better offensive player than Palffy. Edit: now that I reread what you said, I don't know if you were saying that, but I already wrote this.

Palffy's top 30 points finishes: 5, 8, 9, 10, 23
Dillon finishes (from your profile): 4, 5, 11

A couple of notes:

-Dillon did not have a steep dropoff, so he probably has a few more top 20 finishes you didn't list

-These are seasonal finishes; none of of that per game stuff, so they are especially brutal to Palffy.

-Dillon played in an era where points still favored goal scorers compared to today, so these finishes are likely generous to him.

-Palffy competed against Europeans; Dillon didn't. Neither competed against a generational scorer in his prime, unless you count Jagr for Palffy.

-Without going into details, it's quite obvious that Palffy was not helped by linemates.

-Dillon obviously has more intangibles and durability, but I think Palffy had the better offensive peak.
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As for Doan, I really need to link the comparison I made earlier and link it to his profile. But i think you are either underestimating the Raging Doaner or haven't realized just how thin the talent is stretched in a 40 team league. (I didn't realize just how thin until doing assassinations).

In my judgment, Doan should provide more offense than Vic Hadfield, Brian Bellows, JP Parise, Wendel Clark, Adam Graves, and John Ogrodnick among post expansion players used at LW. Many of those guys had a single career year better than anything Doan did, but nothing else all that close. Probably Tikkanen too, but offense really isn't his role. Doan will provide similar offense as Kirk Muller and Mats Naslund. And that's just among post-expansion NHLers; I didn't even look at guys like Dick Duff and Jiri Holik.

We can't all have Krutov at LW you know
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Re: MacKell. I'll try find more on him killing penalties, but we do know that he was fast and tenacious - generally the most important attributes of a PKer.

The Bure/Loob comparison for SHGs isn't really applicable. The oilers basically pioneered putting guys out there on the PK to just score SHGs, that really wasn't the case in the Original 6 era.
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I have no idea where Bilya and Pervukhin rank. Top 120-160 is probably a good estimate, which ofncoursr makes them typical number 4s. Just looking at other #4s around the league, is say they are closer to 120 honestly. Hmm, just reread your post and maybe we don't actually disagree!
- I was comparing Dillon's goalscoring resume to the one of Zigmund Palffy. I still believe that Dillon was a better goalscorer, but I couldn't say if he was the overall better offensive player. The point still remain that if we consider Dillon an low-end #1 RW or elite #2 RW and you compared Palffy to a 'premiere' offensive RW in this draft, it seems rather very generous to Palffy or very unfair to Dillon. If we say that both player offense is close (I don't want to nitpick here) and we bring in the argument that Dillon bring a far more complete game in term of defensive abilities, versatility, playoff resume and an injured-free career, both of them are definitely not the same tier of player. I can buy it offensively, but not overall. Perhaps that's what you were trying to say.

And we already talk that Dillon played 2nd line to Bill Cook with mainly Murray Murdoch and Butch Keeling as linemate. As soon as Bill Cook lost his wheel, Dillon stepped in and ragged three AS selection in a row.

- That's a fair enough argument for Doan. Yes, I don't think I realized how the talent was stretch on the left side with 40 teams. I would also prefer Doan on my left side than Hadfield, Bellows, Parise and Ogrodnick. I would prefer Clark and Graves, but Doan has the edge offensively. I'll comfortably take Muller, Tikkanen and Naslund over Doan. But point is still taken that at 40 teams the talent is stretch everywhere.

I do am lucky to have Krutov on my left side

- But still, you understand why I can question Mackell has an elite penalty killer in the ATD. Your argument is base solely on goalscoring from the PK and speculation. I'm not saying he shouldn't get a spot on the PK, but calling him elite and your team best PK player without any solid argument is a very big stretch to say the least. I'm still looking to get convince. Shout me a PM whenever you take the time to dig more into the subject

- Yes, that's what I was thinking. I don't think our view diverge very much, if not at all, for those two Russian.


Last edited by EagleBelfour: 04-11-2011 at 01:23 AM.
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Old
04-11-2011, 01:24 AM
  #350
TheDevilMadeMe
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At this point, we are just picking nits about Palffy and Dillon. Dillon is the better goal scorer, but Palffy the better overall offensive peak in the regular season... At least before getting into the tricky business of how to account for Dillon being stuck behind Bill Cook. Dillon has more intangibles, but it's not like he's some elite intangibles guy himself.

As for the Doan comment, why would yountake Mats Naslund and Kirk Muller over him "comfortably" when they likely provide similar offense and Doan is praised at least as much for his all round game?

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