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ATD 2011 Line-up Assassination Thread

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Old
04-07-2011, 09:52 PM
  #151
Leafs Forever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
With so many multi-position players, I've got a lot of flexibiltiy. If that's something that would be accepted, I'd do it.... but I'm not sure most people like the idea of Dunderdale on the wing.
.
I think Dunderale actually got a FAST in the PCHA as a LW. I would buy him as a LW, though I obviouslly don't speak fpor everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post


GM: Dwight
Coach: Boris Kulagin
Captain: Mario Lemieux
Alternate Captains: Boris Mikhailov, Jim Schoenfeld

Paul Kariya - Mario Lemieux - Boris Mikhailov
Vsevolod Bobrov - Bernie Federko - Harry Oliver
Gilles Tremblay - Bob Bourne - Gary Dornhoefer
Bob Davidson - Ray Getliffe - Marcel Bonin
Don Grosso - Bronco Horvath

Lionel Conacher - Jan Suchy
Jim Schoenfeld - Stefan Persson
Petr Svoboda - Andrei Markov
Doug Jarrett - Bruce Driver

Hap Holmes
Tomas Vokoun

PP1
Paul Kariya - Mario Lemieux - Boris Mikhailov
Jan Suchy - Stefan Persson

PP2
Vsevolod Bobrov - Bernie Federko - Harry Oliver
Lionel Conacher - Andrei Markov

PK1
Bob Davidson - Bob Bourne
Lionel Conacher - Jim Schoenfeld

PK2
Gilles Tremblay - Ray Getliffe
Jan Suchy - Petr Svoboda

PK3
Mario Lemieux - Boris Mikhailov
Lionel Conacher - Jan Suchy

Hero Line
Vsevolod Bobrov - Mario Lemieux - Boris Mikhailov
Lionel Conacher - Jan Suchy
Forwards

Top Line: Possibly the best top line in the draft. The offense skill on it is sick, and it will definitely be a force. It functions pretty well two; no backchecking, but that's not too big a concern on a line that offensively talented.

Second Line: It's actually got quite a bit of offensive skill on it as well, between Federko and Oliver. Should work offensively; unfortunate thing is, it doesn't work everywhere else. It's also not built very well with Bobrov; who needs to be the star often and needs guys to cover for him. Awful intangibles, but good offense for a second line.

Third Line: Sound, gritty, good defense third line that won't provide much on the scoreboard (which you don't need more of anyway).

Fourth Line: A more well-rounded fourth line, but it doesn't excel much in a number of areas. It's got less toughness than ideal, but does give some decent two-way skills.

Overall forwards: And explosive top-6 and a solid intangible-filled bottom-6. Defense will definitely be a concern from the forward group, but the top-6 is one of the best offensively in the draft.

Defense
Top Pairing: Decent. I can buy Conacher as a #1, but he's definitely lower end in this. Suchy, I can buy as a good #2, which averages out to below-average or worse. They compliment eachother very nicely, however.

Second Pairing: Unspectacular. Not big on either player as a #3; a good complimentary pairing again, though some lack of skill.

Third Pairing: I'm still left uncertain as to what makes Svodba particularly good in the ATD. Markov is a pretty good #6. Not as sure on the compliment here, but Svodba makes this one another below-average pairing.

Overall Defense: Good complimentary pairings but all are on the below-average to worse side; not a strong defense at all. Also on the softer side, I think, though not too bad in that sense.

Coaching, Goaltending, and Spares
Goaltending: Pretty medocre. Holmes is a decent but below-average starter; Vokoun merely and ok-backup.

Coaching: Who? Doesn't seem like an impressive coach to me, at anyrate; certainly lower end.

Spares: You've got a pretty well rounded group there. I like Grosso and Horvath as forward spares; and your two defensemen spares seem pretty solid.

Special Teams
PP1: Freaking awesome. Top line here, of course, is superb, and you don't do too badly on pointment either.

PP2: Lots of good offensive skill on your second PP unit. I will say, however, it lacks a good net prescence, which I'd like to see more of.

PK1: Pretty good first PK unit. Pairing looks superb, and forwards seem pretty good.

PK 2: Not big on PK2. Backend strikes me as on the weak side, and the forwards seem unspectacular at bvest.

PK3: This unit is going to light the oppositing up. Pretty well put together.

Overall: A great PP with a solid enough PK core. Pretty solid job on special teams.
------

Overall Team: This team is definitely more offensive style due to the nature of its top 6. It's got some defensive concerns, with a rather weak defense core, goaltending, and weak defensive top-6, but its got lots of offensive power that will be hard to stop.

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Old
04-07-2011, 10:40 PM
  #152
Dr Pepper
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Alright, here goes, completed debut ATD roster!

Line combos obviously not set in stone just yet:



Dawson City Nuggets


Coach: Herb Brooks
Assistant Coach: Vyacheslav Bykov
Captain: Gilbert Perreault
Assistant Captains: Michel Goulet, Cy Wentworth

Michel Goulet - Gilbert Perreault - Mike Bossy
Venjamin Alexandrov - Vladimir Shadrin - Dino Ciccarelli
Glen Skov - Metro Prystai - Jere Lehtinen
Dave "Tiger" Williams - Doru Tureanu - Allan "Scotty" Davidson
x - Steven Stamkos, Ray Ferraro

Frantisek Pospisil - Oldrich Machac
Clarence "Taffy" Abel - Cy Wentworth
Craig Ludwig - Darius Kasparaitis
x - Anton Volchenkov

Clint Benedict
Viktor Konovolenko


PP1: Goulet-Perreault-Bossy-Davidson-Machac

PP2: Alexandrov-Shadrin-Ciccarelli-Tureanu-Wentworth

PK1: Shadrin-Lehtinen-Pospisil-Abel

PK2: Prystai-Skov-Kasparaitis-Ludwig

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:30 PM
  #153
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
Assasinate it like a third world dictator you short-sightedly installed 25 years earlier.

San Jose Sharks

Managers: Cognition



Head Coach: John Tortorella
Assistant Coach: Dan Bylsma
Captain: Sid Abel
Assistant Captains: Owen Nolan, Jamie Langenbrunner, Shea Weber

ROSTER
Abel - Petrov - B. Hextall
Mats Naslund - Malkin - Nolan
Andreychuk - Getzlaf - March
Roberts - Peca - Langenbrunner
Spares: Semenko, Kopitar

Baun - Orr
Daneyko - Jovanovski
Suter - Weber
Spares: Green

Durnan
Thomas

PP1:
Andreychuk - Petrov - B. Hextall
Abel - Orr

PP2:
Roberts - Malkin - Nolan
Weber - Jovanovski

PK1:
Peca - Langenbrunner
Baun - Orr

PK2:
Getzlaf - Nolan
Daneyko - Suter

All lines are pending.
I hope to at least assassinate everyone in my division, plus a few more. Here goes:

1st Line

Abel and Petrov are both good 1st line players in a 40 team ATD. Petrov is a rare elite goal scoring center, and Abel will provide adequate playmaking from the wing. They should be a strong combo. Hextall provides some physicality on the wing, and Petrov provides adequate defensive presence for a 1st line. It's not good defensively, but it's OK. Offensively, they should do well. My only concern would be that there might not be enough puck to go around, with Hextall and Petrov being known shooters.

2nd Line

Naslund is your goal scorer, Malkin your setup man, and Nolan provides the grit and intangibles for the line. In terms of their roles, this line works fine together. The problem I see here is that this line may struggle in its own zone. Malkin is a negative defensively, Nolan is maybe a bit above average, and Naslund isn't anything special either. Defense is going to be a problem for this line.

3rd Line

Definitely not a traditional 3rd line. They're a gritty group, March provides playmaking from RW, Getzlaf brings playmaking at center as well, and Andreychuk is your shooter. They bring a high level of grit, but don't bring the same level of defense that most 3rd lines do. They'll score more than most, but I wouldn't trust them to go against an opponent's top units.

4th Line

Your 4th line looks more like a 3rd line than your 3rd line does if you ask me. Peca is your best defensive player, and was a gritty little guy. Roberts is a classic power forward that brings great intangibles, but wasn't great defensively. Langenbrunner brings two-way ability. I'm assuming this is the line you would put out against an opponent's top lines? If given a tough assignment against a really good 1st line, I think they could struggle. Roberts is not great defensively, but has the physicality to keep up. If you're going for a traditional 4th line, you've done well.

Forwards Overall: You've got a very odd group of forwards. Your top 6 has a lot of talent, but isn't great defensively. Your bottom 6 is loaded with grit and intangibles, but I still think you lack a definitive shutdown line. But, all four lines could take a regular shift, and not have a problem.

1st Pairing

You have Bobby Orr, best defenseman of all time. Nothing I need to say there. Baun is probably better suited for 2nd pairing duty, but next to Orr he's fine. A good defensive defenseman to cover for a rushing Orr. He also provides physicality. Good 1st pairing.

2nd Pairing

Daneyko is a classic defensive defenseman, but I think he's out of place on a 2nd pairing here. He's best suited for the 3rd pairing, and logging huge PK time. I don't think Jovanovski is a #3, more like an average #4. They'll provide physicality and Jovo can provide some offense, but I think this is a sub-par 2nd pairing.

3rd Pairing

Two guys that I probably wouldn't have picked in the ATD, but would be near the top of my list for the MLD. Weber brings everything and Suter is reliable defensively, but both have done it for a very short time. In 5 years, this is a great 2nd pairing in the ATD. For now, it's average.

Defense Overall: Good first pairing, but a sub-par 2nd pairing, and an average 3rd pairing. I'd say defense is going to be your biggest problem, possibly compounded by the fact that you don't have that many great two-way forwards.

Goaltending

Durnan is arguably a top 10 goalie all time, and is one of the strongest starters in the draft. He will help out some of your defensive deficiencies. If Thomas wins the Vezina this year, then he'll be in a very select company. Very short peak, but extremely high peak. Okay backup.

Coaching

Really not a fan of either guy. Bylsma has a cup and little else to his credit, and just not a fan of Tortorella. Average to below average coaching.

PP

Any PP with Orr on it is going to be good. The only thing with your forwards is that all 3 guys on your first unit are shooters. I might either move Abel up front or put him on the 2nd PP because with Orr aside him, his talent is somewhat being wasted, compounded by the fact that he's your best playmaker, something you're short on. The wingers on the 2nd unit have grit, but I'm not sure if they're best suited for PP duty. Again, replacing Abel with one of them might help, but I don't think you have any defenseman worthy of PP duty, or a forward that plays point besides Abel.

PK

Peca is a good PKer, but I don't think Langenbrunner is a 1st unit PK guy. Defensemen are fine. For the 2nd unit, Getzlaf and Nolan are both below average for an ATD PK. Daneyko is very good on the PK, not sure if Suter can handle it. PK is below average IMO. The fact that you went with 4 balanced lines hurts your PK a lot.

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:54 PM
  #154
vancityluongo
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I wouldn't call these reviews, but IMO getting a few comments is better than nothing. I usually do these "mini-reviews", where I just point out things that stand out to me as strengths, and sometimes weaknesses. I'd personally recommend it to anyone else who feels overwhelmed by doing full essays for each team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post



Arkady Chernyshev
Rudy Pilous

Alf Smith “A” - Norm Ullman - Andy Bathgate
Fred Stanfeild - Tom Dunderdale - Jack Marshall
Pete Mahovlich - Edgar Laprade - Andy Hebenton
Red Hamill - Paul Haynes - Peter McNab

Ray Bourque “C” - Ted Green “A”
Hod Stuart - Pat Egan
Hy Buller - Ken Randall

Vladislav Tretiak
Mike Richter



Eddie Wiseman, Victor Shuvalov, Kent Douglas


Power Play #1
Alf Smith - Norm Ullman - Andy Bathgate
Ray Bourque - Pat Egan

Power Play #2
Fred Stanfield - Tommy Dunderdale - Peter McNab
Hod Stuart - Jack Marshall

Penalty Kill #1
Pete Mahovlich - Andy Hebenton
Ray Bourque - Ted Green

Penalty Kill #2
Edgar Laprade - Fred Stanfield
Hod Stuart - Ken Randall

Panalty Kill Extras
Norm Ullman - Jack Marshall - Paul Haynes - Alf Smith
Well balanced forward group. I'm a fan of the first line, I feel its pretty well put together. Laparade and Dunderdale were both guys we targeted, so I like the roles those guys are in. Haynes can probably provide some offense from the fourth too, so that's a nice plus.

I can see why the team is called the "Monsters" by looking at the top pairing. That is a physical duo that should be hell to play against. I also believe Bourque's value is magnified even more in this draft, because the difference between him and a low end #1 guy is pretty big, and could make a big impact on a series.

Goaltending, Richter is probably an elite backup, and Tretiak is not a slouch as far as starters go. One of the better duos in the draft probably. Special teams seem appropriate to me, nothing really stands out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post



Head Coach: Joel Quenneville
Assistant Coach: Marc Crawford

Roy Conacher-Syl Apps Sr.-Gordie Drillon
Keith Tkachuk-Dale Hawerchuk-Billy Boucher
Frank "Pud" Glass-Ernie Russell-Bruce Stuart
Wayne Merrick-Ryan Kesler-Ron Stewart

Spares: RW Billy Gilmour, W Bruce Ridpath

Denis Potvin-Ken Morrow
Hobey Baker-Dunc Munro
Sandis Ozolinsh-Al Arbour
D/F Walter Smaill

Dominik Hasek
Ryan Miller


PP1: Tkachuk-Hawerchuk-Boucher-Potvin-Ozolinsh
PP2: Conacher-Apps-Drillon-Baker-Munro

PK1: Kesler-Stewart-Arbour-Morrow
PK2: Merrick-Glass-Munro-Potvin
I wish you could've managed to get Potvin, Trottier and Bossy like you planned, because I would've been interested to see what you were gonna do after that. Even though that didn't turn out, I like the results anyways.

I like the center depth. All four are legitimate for their roles, with Hawerchuk being a borderline elite second liner. I'm a fan of the fourth line especially, they provide exactly what a fourth line should do.

I'd be a bit worried about giving Morrow similar minutes as Potvin. Not too sure though if anyone else is better suited to that top pairing; maybe Baker could, but that'd be a tough sell.

On the bright side, you have the best goalie ever in net. And Miller is a decent backup. So any gaffes your defense might make due to fatigue, you shouldn't worry about too much, with the Dominator back there.

Not a fan of the assistant, but your coaches do suit your team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post


GM: Dwight
Coach: Boris Kulagin
Captain: Mario Lemieux
Alternate Captains: Boris Mikhailov, Jim Schoenfeld

Paul Kariya - Mario Lemieux - Boris Mikhailov
Vsevolod Bobrov - Bernie Federko - Harry Oliver
Gilles Tremblay - Bob Bourne - Gary Dornhoefer
Bob Davidson - Ray Getliffe - Marcel Bonin
Don Grosso - Bronco Horvath

Lionel Conacher - Jan Suchy
Jim Schoenfeld - Stefan Persson
Petr Svoboda - Andrei Markov
Doug Jarrett - Bruce Driver

Hap Holmes
Tomas Vokoun

PP1
Paul Kariya - Mario Lemieux - Boris Mikhailov
Jan Suchy - Stefan Persson

PP2
Vsevolod Bobrov - Bernie Federko - Harry Oliver
Lionel Conacher - Andrei Markov

PK1
Bob Davidson - Bob Bourne
Lionel Conacher - Jim Schoenfeld

PK2
Gilles Tremblay - Ray Getliffe
Jan Suchy - Petr Svoboda

PK3
Mario Lemieux - Boris Mikhailov
Lionel Conacher - Jan Suchy

Hero Line
Vsevolod Bobrov - Mario Lemieux - Boris Mikhailov
Lionel Conacher - Jan Suchy
You're in my division. So apologies if all I do is criticize.

Love the top line. I might be in the minority, but I think I'd be hard pressed to find a better first line in the draft. Offense in general shouldn't be a problem for this roster.

Whether it's fair or not, the first thing I notice with the D is that there is no bonafide number one guy to take the big minutes like a Potvin or Bourque. It's made up for somewhat by having pretty good depth and a solid but unspectacular top-4 overall.

Goaltending is alright. Won't win you anything, likely won't lose you anything IMO. I think I know next to nothing about your head coach, so no comments other than this there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I dont have a cool logo...I feel left out.

Millionares:

Steve Shutt-Howie Morenz-Daniel Briere
John Leclair-Eric Lindros-Kenny Wharram
John Tonelli-Walt Tkazkuc-Bobby Schmautz
Tomas Holmstrom-Kris Draper-Adam Deadmarsh

Flash Hollett-Tim Horton
Ebbie Goodfellow-Keith Magnusson
Roman Hamrlik-Robert Svehla

Lorne Chabot
Nik Khabibulin

Spares: Yashin, Parise, Visnovski, xxxx

PP1: Leclair-Lindros-Morenz-Goodfellow-Hollett
PP2: Shutt-Tonelli-Wharram-Horton-Hamrlik

PK1: -Tkaczuk-Schmautz-Magnuson-Horton
PK2: -Tonelli-Draper-Goodfellow-Svehla
I promised above I'd point out things that I think stand out; so the first thing that stood out is that Briere is on the top line? You have two-thirds of a traditional ATD first line, but Briere seems out of place to me. I'm sure you've explained it somewhere, but I haven't read any other assassinations or many posts in the lineup advice thread, so forgive me.

I really like all four of your LW-C combos though. Leclair-Lindros will likely cause some damage against second pairings.

Good choice sheltering Hollett with a defensive mastermind like Horton. Goodfellow is an excellent second pairing defenseman.

Goaltending is possibly a concern, but I'm pretty sure you're already aware of that, considering when you took your netminders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Detroit Falcons

(1930-1932)

Coach: Art Ross
Assistant Coach: Lloyd Percival


Anatoli Firsov (A) - Elmer Lach (A) - Cecil Dillon
Vladimir Krutov - Tod Sloan - Vladimir Vikulov
Don Marcotte - Kenneth Mosdell - Floyd Curry
Eddie Shack - Aleksandr Almetov - Konstantin Loktev
Sergei Kapustin, LW
Johnny Gagnon, RW

Doug Harvey (C) - Fern Flaman
Zdeno Chara - Bert Corbeau (A)
Jerry Korab - Bobby Rowe
Gilles Marotte

Al Rollins
Henrik Lundqvist


Powerplay:
Anatoli Firsov - Vladimir Krutov - Elmer Lach
Doug Harvey - Zdeno Chara

Cecil Dillon - Tod Sloan - Vladimir Vikulov
Jerry Korab - Fern Flaman

Penalty Kill:
Don Marcotte - Kenneth Mosdell
Doug Harvey - Zdeno Chara

Floyd Curry - Aleksandr Almetov
Bert Corbeau - Fern Flaman

Vladimir Krutov - Elmer Lach
Doug Harvey - Zdeno Chara

Pretty bloody solid team to build while on the beaches, you Aussie *******!

That is an incredibly scary top-3. The physicality and intimidation factor is through the roof. I can see why you took Harvey at four, if you had this defense core in mind all along.

Pardon my ignorance, but I think forwards might be a little below average. I like the top line, but after that I don't know enough about the Russians to really make a good judgement. (and sorry, I know put in a ton of effort into your bios, but I don't have enough spare time to read those novels. I have a few bookmarked though, hopefully for some light reading one day!)

I'd like to try and get through what I recall you posting as a groundbreaking Rollins bio before I make a full comment on that, but the comment right now is that goaltending is probably below average regardless. Still, with a top-3 lead by Doug Harvey, followed by Zdeno Chara and Fern Flaman, who cares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
MONTREAL CANADIENS



Manager: ReenMachine

Head Coach: Harry Sinden
Defense Coach: Jacque Laperrière
Captain: Wayne Gretzky
Assistant: Nicklas Lidstrom
Assistant: Lanny McDonald

ROSTER

#16 Patrik Elias - #99 Wayne Gretzky - #9 Lanny McDonald
#17 Wendel Clark - #18 Denis Savard - #19 Jean Pronovost
#2 Louis Berlinquette - #11 Steve Kasper - #17 Mike Foligno
#14 Geoff Courtnall - #15 Billy Reay - #27 Alex Kovalev
Spares: #10 Barry Pederson , #30 Chris Nilan

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom - #16 Vladimir Konstantinov
#20 Gary Suter - #20 Dallas Smith
#26 Dave Langevin - #34 Al Iafrate
Spares: #26 Mike Milbury

#1 Alec Connell
#35 Jean-Sébastien Giguère


PP1: Wayne Gretzky , Lanny McDonald , Alex Kovalev , Nicklas Lidstrom , Gary Suter

PP2: Denis Savard , Jean Pronovost , Patrick Elias , Al Iafrate , Vlad Konstantinov

PK1: Steve Kasper , Louis Berlinquette , Nicklas Lidstrom , Dallas Smith

PK2: Billy Reay , Mike Foligno , Vladimir Konstantinov , Dave Langevin

PK3: Wayne Gretzky , Patrick Elias

6 men: Gretzky , McDonald , Elias , Savard , Lidstrom , Suter
That Gretzky guy really sucked, but I think you've got him some decent linemates. Probably one of the better top lines in the draft, IMO; I like Lanny on Gretz's right side. I like the mix of the second line too.

Lidstrom is obviously incredible. No questions about that. But Vladdy was taken too early, and I hate to say that because 1) I traded you that pick and 2) Because you've been ragged on for that pick all that draft, and I remember being *****ed at for blown picks all draft in my first couple, it's annoying. You recovered alright though, while the defense doesn't resemble the dynasty Habs, it's pretty good. A lot of modern players on your roster, I just noticed.

Goaltending is average. Again, you probably know that. Not really a Giguere fan, though he has accomplished a fair bit and has a couple of ridiculous stretches on his resume. I like the special teams units.

In general though, I think you've put together a pretty nice effort for your first time. Looking forward to hearing your arguments in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post


Head Coach: Mike Babcock
Captain: Derian Hatcher
Assistant Captains: Barney Stanley, Kirk Muller, Jacques Lemaire

#9 Bobby Hull - #25 Jacques Lemaire - #19 Vic Stasiuk
#11 Kirk Muller* - #21 Peter Forsberg - #16 Brett Hull
#23 Chris Drury - #7 Neal Broten - #4 Jimmy Ward
#10 Gaetan Duchesne - #27 Doug Jarvis - #14 Barney Stanley
#15 Craig Janney
#24 Bill Fairbairn

#2 Derian Hatcher - #3 Reg Noble
#5 Ulf Samuelsson - #28 Brian Rafalski
#17 Rod Seiling - #20 Jyrki Lumme
#33 Ron Stackhouse
#8 Miroslav Dvorak

#1 Harry Lumley
#31 Mike Liut

PP1:
Forsberg - Hull - Muller*
Hull - Rafalski

PP2:
Lemaire - Stasiuk - Drury*
Broten - Noble/Lumme

PK1:
Jarvis - Duchesne
Hatcher - Noble

PK2:
Broten - Drury
Samuelsson - Seiling

PK3:
Jarvis - Ward
Hatcher - Noble

other F's who could get SHTOI: Muller, Stanley, Lemaire, Fairbairn


* takes faceoffs. Muller was a very good faceoff man, while Forsberg was not. i put Hull and Stasiuk in the middle on PP b/c they will be playing there: Stasiuk at the net, Hull in the slot.


i don't think the jerseys need advertisements, so here are the jerseys:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...1&postcount=82

3rd jersey:
This is a pretty balanced squad, especially up front. I can't decide which of the top two lines I like better, and that's a scary thought for opposing defenses. Forsberg is an elite second line center, and Bobby Hull is obviously incredible. Actually, the Forsberg-Brett combo against second pairings is lethal. Goals, goals, goals. Lemaire seems like an excellent center for Bobby too.

Noble on D? Didn't expect that, not too sure what to really say about it. Maybe the only concern is that can that top pairing handle the minutes that will be expected out of them; with no Hasek or Roy behind them to lessen that worry, this may be a concern. Although, I wouldn't worry about the goalies themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Hartford Whalers



Busher Jackson - Bobby Clarke (C) - Punch Broadbent
J.P. Parise - Joe Nieuwendyk (A) - Bill Mosienko
Dave Trottier - Joel Otto - John McKenzie
Doc Romnes - Erich Kühnhackl - Pat Verbeek
Igor Liba, Ladislav Trojak

Herb Gardiner (A) - Börje Salming
Paul Reinhart - Ott Heller
Glen Wesley - Phil Russell
Steve Chiasson

Ed Belfour
Riley Hern

Coach: Peter Laviolette
Assistant coach: Alf Smith

PP1: Busher Jackson - Joe Nieuwendyk - Bobby Clarke - Paul Reinhart - Börje Salming
PP2: Punch Broadbent - Erich Kühnhackl - Bill Mosienko - Herb Gardiner - Ott Heller

PK1: Bobby Clarke - Punch Broadbent - Herb Gardiner - Börje Salming
PK2: Dave Trottier - Joel Otto - Glen Wesley - Ott Heller


I actually really really like this entry. Basically every player is in an appropriate role (Parise would be better as a third liner, but that's all that jumps out at me). Clarke is an excellent first line C obviously, Salming is definitely a true #1 D, Belfour is a true #1 goalie. Otto is a perfect third line C, Nieuwendyk is a pretty good second line C. I like Mosienko on that wing.

On, the top-4 is absolutely solid. Unlike some others, I don't think Reinhart is out of place on a second pairing.

I already commented that I like Belfour as a #1, and obviously Hern who I don't know much about other than "Hern-gate" was a pretty sought after guy too (how ironic is it that EagleBELFOUR is the guy that wanted Hern, and MadArcand has both of them? I sense a conspiracy? )





Wow, that took a lot longer than I thought. I was hoping I could do a review of this length for all the teams, but I only got through 8 here. I don't think I can pull off another 4 of these sessions.

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Old
04-08-2011, 12:11 AM
  #155
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
That Gretzky guy really sucked, but I think you've got him some decent linemates. Probably one of the better top lines in the draft, IMO; I like Lanny on Gretz's right side. I like the mix of the second line too.

Lidstrom is obviously incredible. No questions about that. But Vladdy was taken too early, and I hate to say that because 1) I traded you that pick and 2) Because you've been ragged on for that pick all that draft, and I remember being *****ed at for blown picks all draft in my first couple, it's annoying. You recovered alright though, while the defense doesn't resemble the dynasty Habs, it's pretty good. A lot of modern players on your roster, I just noticed.
Goaltending is average. Again, you probably know that. Not really a Giguere fan, though he has accomplished a fair bit and has a couple of ridiculous stretches on his resume. I like the special teams units.

In general though, I think you've put together a pretty nice effort for your first time. Looking forward to hearing your arguments in the playoffs.
(
thanks for the review.

What's annoying about the Vladdy thing is when people judge when I picked him , I now clearly know it was too early , but no matter where they were picked our players are all on the team now , so if someone don't think he can play with Lidstrom on the 1st pairing , that,s fine ,but I disagree with this even if I could have someone better.

Do I really have that many ''modern'' players compare to the rest of the teams? There's a couple of team with like 6 or 7 ACTIVE players on their roster while my players are certainly more 70s/present in general but I do have a couple of old timers.It's just a mix of luck and lack of knowledge because normally with my every pick after Knstantinov I did put more effort to check all the options.I'm also a 70s / 80s lover

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04-08-2011, 12:25 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Tidewater Sharks



GMs: Hedberg and vancityluongo
Coach: Tommy Gorman

Sweeney Schriner - Max Bentley - Larry Aurie (A)
Bill Barber - Pat Lafontaine (A) - Alexander Mogilny
Craig Ramsay - Troy Murray - Jimmy Peters
Fred Scanlan - Keith Primeau - Corey Perry
Harry Trihey - Art Farrell

Chris Chelios (C) - Marcel Pronovost
Craig Hartsburg - Ted Harris
Steve Duchesne - Howard McNamara
Mattias Norstrom - Harold Halderson

Roy Worters
Paddy Moran

PP1:
Bill Barber - Pat Lafontaine - Alexander Mogilny
Max Bentley - Chris Chelios

PP2:
Sweeney Schriner - Keith Primeau - Larry Aurie
Marcel Pronovost - Steve Duchesne

PK1:
Craig Ramsay - Troy Murray
Chris Chelios - Marcel Pronovost

PK2:
Max Bentley - Jimmy Peters
Ted Harris - Howard McNamara

Forwards
-Pretty lacklustre top line. Max bentley is below-average as far as Top line C's go I think. Sweeny Schriner is probably average amongst LW's, and Aurie is a fairly poor top line RW. The line works well enough from a goalscoring-playmaking perspective. It's kind of intangible devoid however; I don't think Aurie's quite good enough to take care of all of the glue aspects.

-Very nice second line. Intangibles were well covered between Barber and Mogilny; Barber is excellent for his role, Fontaine very good, and Mogilny pretty solid. My one issue with the line is it appears to have three players bias towards goalscoring, which is a no-no from me.

-Excellent second line. Ramsay is, of course, one of the best third line LW's you can get; Murray is also very superb for a second line C and give it some legit two-way punch along with Jimmy Peters, who is a very nice compliment. Probably going to be one of my favourite third line's in the draft.

-Excellent fourth line as well. You've got some pretty good toughness here with some very nice offense and some pretty good two-way ability.

Overall Forwards: A kind of lacking top-6, between a top line that isn't particularly good and a unbalced offense second line, but an excellent top-6. Lots of firepower spread throughout and some good two-way as well.

Defense
-Very good all-around top pairing. They cover all the areas very well and will be tough to play against.

-Pretty solid second pairing. Hartsburg and Harris are a good #3 and #4. They compliment eachother well.

-I think you've got two underrated defenders here; I think it's a good third pairing myself. A standard offensive with defensive duo that works quite effectively.

Overall: A very good top pairing with an average-above average bottom-4; very well put together defense core.

Goaltending, Coaching, and Spares
-Worters is a tricky guide to gauge here, but he's probably about an average goalie in this, which looks very good for you. Don't know much about Moran.

-Gorman is an upper-tier coach, and I think you've got enough two-way ability to meet his style.

-I'm not too familiar with your spares, but seem to have a very nice old group going with some pretty solid versatility.

Special Teams
PP1: You've got fantastic PP pointmen, but your forwards definitely are lackings here to make a below-average top PP unit.

PP2: Very good second unit. Primeau is pretty meh, and I don't think he spent a lot of time on the PP, but the rest are rather good for their roles.

PK1: Fantastic top PK unit. Starting off with Ramsay is always awesome, and you've got a very good pairing there and Murray as a solid PKer himself.

PK 2: Solid, but unspectacular; Bentley does give it an offensive aspect, but I think he's average at best for a second PKer.

Overall Units: You come out looking pretty good in both departments; your top PK in particular is the strength of your special teams.

Overall Team: A very nicely balanced squad that lacks holes outside the top line (and arguably top-6). The great defense and bottom-6 will carry you well.

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04-08-2011, 12:28 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Do I really have that many ''modern'' players compare to the rest of the teams? There's a couple of team with like 6 or 7 ACTIVE players on their roster while my players are certainly more 70s/present in general but I do have a couple of old timers.It's just a mix of luck and lack of knowledge because normally with my every pick after Knstantinov I did put more effort to check all the options.I'm also a 70s / 80s lover
Depends on the team you're comparing to, but on a whole, I would say you are; only 3 pre-expansion guys and one 06er by my talls, which is likely below-average as far as oldies go.

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04-08-2011, 12:50 AM
  #158
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Mogilny had intangibles?
Hmm; for some reason my mental player files said "some two-way ability", though maybe I am applying the "Rule of playing for the trap-era New Jersey Devils" too much.

I should have also mentioned the second line does have the great chemistry between Lafontaine and Mogilny to well off-set the potential too much bias towards goalscoring, come to think of it.

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04-08-2011, 12:59 AM
  #159
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Yeah, that's the other thing, lafontaine- he only has the one season as a significant playmaker, but it was really good and was next to mogilny. I'd still like a more natural playmaker to get the most out of barber though.

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04-08-2011, 02:04 AM
  #160
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I'll do the other teams from my division tomorrow. I feel like doing this one now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
MONTREAL CANADIENS



Manager: ReenMachine

Head Coach: Harry Sinden
Defense Coach: Jacque Laperrière
Captain: Wayne Gretzky
Assistant: Nicklas Lidstrom
Assistant: Lanny McDonald

ROSTER

#16 Patrik Elias - #99 Wayne Gretzky - #9 Lanny McDonald
#17 Wendel Clark - #18 Denis Savard - #19 Jean Pronovost
#2 Louis Berlinquette - #11 Steve Kasper - #17 Mike Foligno
#14 Geoff Courtnall - #15 Billy Reay - #27 Alex Kovalev
Spares: #10 Barry Pederson , #30 Chris Nilan

#5 Nicklas Lidstrom - #16 Vladimir Konstantinov
#20 Gary Suter - #20 Dallas Smith
#26 Dave Langevin - #34 Al Iafrate
Spares: #26 Mike Milbury

#1 Alec Connell
#35 Jean-Sébastien Giguère


PP1: Wayne Gretzky , Lanny McDonald , Alex Kovalev , Nicklas Lidstrom , Gary Suter

PP2: Denis Savard , Jean Pronovost , Patrick Elias , Al Iafrate , Vlad Konstantinov

PK1: Steve Kasper , Louis Berlinquette , Nicklas Lidstrom , Dallas Smith

PK2: Billy Reay , Mike Foligno , Vladimir Konstantinov , Dave Langevin

PK3: Wayne Gretzky , Patrick Elias

6 men: Gretzky , McDonald , Elias , Savard , Lidstrom , Suter
Coaching:

I'm not a fan of Sinden at head coach. I'm mean, he's good in that he'll get out of the way and let gretz be gretz. But he won't do much actual coaching. Traditionally, one of the candidates for worst coach in the draft, but with the expansion, several more questionable coaches were drafted.

I love your assistant. Laperriere is one of the few all-time great assistant coaches really worth drafting. I assume he'll change the defensemen in game? Sinden might be below par at getting the forward matchups you want, but laperriere will help get the right defensemen out there.

Forwards:

Gretzky is the best player ever, period. His one weakness is face-offs, so ibreally don't think you want him taking defensive zone draws and wasting too many shifts in his own zone after losing a draw. His linemates are a bit light on talent as first liners go, but the chemistry is perfect and Gretzky will elevate them.

Savard is another offense-only center, but is one of the premier offensive centers on a second line. He's a great one man show, which is good because he'll have to carry the offensive load of the line. Pronovost is a solid glue guy but really should not be the 2nd best offensive player on a scoring line. Clark is a physical beast at least. Savard does have a history of elevating the goalscoring of LW goons. The linemates are perfect to cover savard's weaknesses, but a good second unit defense can shut then down by focusing on savard. That is if the defense isn't completely occupied by gretz.

Quality checking line with little offensive upside. Have then take defensive zone draws and give them little ice time otherwise (Sinden can definitely handle that).

Your fourth line is really a third scoring line. Just give them 3rd line minutes and use kasper for defensive draws. These guys will be liabilities in a 4th line role - in can't picture kovalev giving a crap with 4th line minutes.

If gretzky or savard is injured, pederaon is a good spare. If any other forwards are hurt, you could be in trouble.

Defense:

Lidstrom is a great #1 obviously. Konstantinov is not a #2, but is passable as a #3 I guess with lidstrom carrying the pairing.

Suter would be an okay puck rushing, hard hitting #3 but I don't like him as a #2 a he's really not that good in his own zone. Dallas smith is used to playing next to rushing defenseman

Wild Thing is bad defensively, but quite good with the puck on his stick and is a nasty hitter. Langevin is an okay stay at home #6.

Milbury is a solid physical stay at home spare. I can see him getting into some games instead of wild thing if you need more defense.

Overall, lack of a credible #2 puts a lot of pressure on lidstrom to defend Connell. But then, he's Lidstrom!

On the otherhand, the presence of laperriere behind the bench can only help talented guys who would otherwise be adventures in their own zone like suter and iafrate.

Goaltending:

Connell is a below average regular season starter, but he raises his game a bit in the playoffs. Giguere is one of the worst regular season goalies drafted and may struggle to win games for you. He can put in some good playoff performances is Connell gets injured.

Special teams:

First powerplay is awesome!

Second powerplay has some good players, but is pronovost a credible net presence?

First PK is strong

I think you might be overworking konstantinov by playing him on both special teams and giving him the big minutes next to Lidstrom.

I'm not a fan of foligno on the PK at all and Reay is a bit questionable there, as well.

Gretzky-Elias should be your second PK i think.

Overall, a nice first time entry. Talent is a bit thin past the big three (Gretzky, savard, lidstrom), but that is to be expected when you trade up for such high end talent. I van definitely tell that you paid attention to chemisty on your lines, which definitely helps.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 04-08-2011 at 02:10 AM.
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04-08-2011, 02:36 AM
  #161
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My team is finalized.

Winnipeg Falcons


Manager: jkrx



Head Coach: Scotty Bowman
Assistant Coach:
Captain: Yzerman
Assistant Captains: Stevens, Brind'Amour

ROSTER
Brendan Shanahan - Steve Yzerman - Marian Hossa
Brian Bellows - Rod Brind'Amour - Bob Nystrom
P.J. Axelsson - Brent Sutter - Terry O'Reilly
Kirk Maltby - Pete Stemkowski - Claude Larose
Spares: Bob Probert, Johan Franzen, Russ Courtnall

Stevens - Carl Brewer
Brad McCrimmon - Rob Ramage
Calle Johansson - Aaron Ward
Spares: Anders Eldebrink

Mike Vernon
"Pekka" Lindmark

PP1: Shanahan - Yzerman - Nystrom, Hossa - Brewer

PP2: Bellows - Brind'Amour - O'Reilly, Stevens - Calle Johansson

PK1: Yzerman - Hossa, Stevens - Brewer

PK2: Brind'Amour - Sutter, McCrimmon - Ramage

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04-08-2011, 03:56 AM
  #162
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Toronto St.Pats

(1919-1927)
GM: Leafs Forever13
Head Coach: Pete Green
Captain: Ron Francis
Assistant Captains:Pierre Pilote, Harry Watson

Nels Stewart-Ron Francis(C)-Dave Taylor
Harry P. Watson(A)-Bernie Morris-Martin St. Louis
Percy Galbraith-Charlie Burns-Eric Nesterenko
Gerard Gallant-Bernie Nicholls-Leo Labine

Pierre Pilote(A)-Albert "Babe" Siebert
Art Ross-Ed Van Impe
Brian Engblom-Doug Barkley

Ken Dryden
John Ross Roach

Spares:
Mike Rogers, C
Cecil Blachford, F
Fredrik Olausson, D
Joe Juneau, C/LW

Special Teams:
PP1: Babe Siebert-Nels Stewart-Martin St.Louis-Pierre Pilote-Art Ross
PP2: Bernie Nicholls-Bernie Morris-Dave Taylor-Ron Francis-Doug Barklay

PK1: Charlie Burns-Eric Nesterenko-Brian Engblom- Ed Van Impe
PK2: Ron Francis-Martin St. Louis-Babe Siebert-Pierre Pilote
PK3: Bernie Nicholls-Percy Galbraith-Brian Engblom-Ed Van Impe
Babe siebert really needs to be on the first PK over Engblom, even if it means taking him off the PP. Ugh, he's such a good fit on the PP, but you're giving the big PK minutes to really inferior defensemen.

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04-08-2011, 04:15 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Pretty lacklustre top line. Max bentley is below-average as far as Top line C's go I think.
An interesting statement. I thought I was the only one who considers Max Bentley overrated. Bentley was drafted 19th among centers (counting Sundin and assuming that Malone, Nighbor and Messier will play the pivot), so by draft position he should be slightly above average in his role. Here is his offensive breakdown using my preferred shorthand:

117 [22] - 121*
101 [31] - 107
97 [-3] - 96*
94 [2] - 94
90 [-4] - 89
62 [-10] - 60
59 [-10] - 57
59 [-39] - 51

*indicates war year, counting 45-46 (in which the NHL was still very depleted)*

Bentley has a strong 5 year offensive peak, but a big fall-off after that. The fact that two of Max's three best offensive seasons came in war years and that the era (even outside of the war) was generally weak is problematic, as is the fact that Bentley was essentially a 3rd line center for most of his Toronto years and likely received less checking attention (though also maybe less ES icetime) than a typical scoringliner as a result. On paper, Bentley's five year peak scoring stands up reasonably well against the group of 1st line centers selected ahead of him, but there are some fairly strong factors which take some of the shine off of these numbers.

Bentley didn't possess any intangibles of which I am aware, and I definitely have him lower overall than Peter Forsberg and Henri Richard. It's debatable if the rest of the centers taken after Bentley are better than Magic Max, but yeah... I honestly think he's been overrated in the ATD for a long time, mostly because pappyline and GBC couldn't detach themselves from his nuts for whatever reason.


Last edited by Sturminator: 04-08-2011 at 04:49 AM.
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04-08-2011, 06:49 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Toronto St.Pats

(1919-1927)
GM: Leafs Forever13
Head Coach: Pete Green
Captain: Ron Francis
Assistant Captains:Pierre Pilote, Harry Watson

Nels Stewart-Ron Francis(C)-Dave Taylor
Harry P. Watson(A)-Bernie Morris-Martin St. Louis
Percy Galbraith-Charlie Burns-Eric Nesterenko
Gerard Gallant-Bernie Nicholls-Leo Labine

Pierre Pilote(A)-Albert "Babe" Siebert
Art Ross-Ed Van Impe
Brian Engblom-Doug Barkley

Ken Dryden
John Ross Roach

Spares:
Mike Rogers, C
Cecil Blachford, F
Fredrik Olausson, D
Joe Juneau, C/LW

Special Teams:
PP1: Babe Siebert-Nels Stewart-Martin St.Louis-Pierre Pilote-Art Ross
PP2: Bernie Nicholls-Bernie Morris-Dave Taylor-Ron Francis-Doug Barklay

PK1: Charlie Burns-Eric Nesterenko-Brian Engblom- Ed Van Impe
PK2: Ron Francis-Martin St. Louis-Babe Siebert-Pierre Pilote
PK3: Bernie Nicholls-Percy Galbraith-Brian Engblom-Ed Van Impe
Congratulations on building another strong team. As I see the main strength of your is that there are many weaknesses, it is really well-constructed.

I really liked your thinking outside the box in regards to Stuart - with him playing wing next to solid defencive players in Francis and Taylor. And I like the fact that Francis isn't supposed to be a "go to" guy on this . Your first line personell-wise, but it's really the case when the whole is greater as the sum of the parts.

I like your second line too, big fan of St. Louis, who i think is really underrated (IMO the gap between him and Ovechkin/Crosby is much smaller than 150 picks), pairing him with a good goalscorer like Morris was a no-brainer, Watson will provide the board work and some physical presence. i liked that you spread your offence and put your third best forward on the second line, that makes your offence much deeper.

Solid checking line and really good third scoring line.

Defence. Very good first pairing, they bring everything you want from your top pairing.
i learned from my mistakes and i won't critisize your second pairing . i actually like that a player who seems to be out of place there is strong defencive defenceman - minimize your risks. i like Engblom, i think he is one of the best options for third pairing defenceman, Barkley is kind of meh. i don't like that your defence is a little bit too aggressive and will produce too many PIMs for my liking, but i'm a soft euro and a Red Wings' fan, so this opinion will be a minority here.

I don't think i should spend a lot of time analyzing your goaltending.

i like Pete Green as your coach. A team like yours, which isn't the most talented, but has so much structure can use a "system" coach. The only player who may not fit is Ross.

i like the way you are using Siebert, i think you should put Francis on the point of your first PP, i think Ross' offence was more about rushing and speed, which is IMO more suited for ES. And i'd defenitely put Siebert with Van Impe on your top PK-unit.
another thing i don't like, is that you are using your second and third best forwards on your second PK-unit...

You have a very strong, very balanced team, great goaltending, and very well-constructed forward lines. Like i said, your team doesn't have many weaknesses, and none of them are glaring.

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04-08-2011, 10:49 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You're in my division, so you get it first.

Coaching:

I really wish you did a profile of Art Ross, because I'm still not sure how good he was or what his style was. I know that he's not nearly as highly thought of as Lester Patrick or Dick Irvin, but that's a wide range. I do know his teams often lost in the playoffs to lower seeds and he only has the one Cup, despite coaching Eddie Shore. On the other hand, he was an innovator.

Percival was a pioneer in the science of training, which should help Krutov at least. Of course, it would be better if the head coach was a Tikhonov/Keenan type dictator who could ban Krutov from every stepping foot inside a mcdonalds or 7/11.

Forwards:

Lach is a solid playmaking center for a first line. Solid backchecker. Too bad he was so injury-prone. Firsov is a fiery LW who is a very good first line talent, fast, with well rounded offense. Dillon has decent intangibles, but is more of a second line talent. The line is perfectly capable of puck winning by committee, but might sometimes have problems with more physical defenses.

Ah, krutov. For years, he was a fast skating tank who could score goals in tight. He really was a superstar in his own right. In just a few short months, he became fat and useless. Percival should help him, but like I said, the head coach really needs to strictly enforce rules. The other issue has been talked to death. Vikulov is a great playmaker from the wing, seems like a much lesser version of makarov, and that isn't really a bad thing. Sloan is a bit weak as a scoring line center - one great season, 2-3 more good ones, surrounded by mediocrity.

Great checking line, and mosdell gives it some offensive punch in the counter attack.

Shack is a prototypical 4th liner, not sure how the Russians will do on a 4th line.

Overall, I don't see all that much physicality from your forwards, certainly no line that will physically wear down the defense. That may or may not matter. Other than that, they are A well balanced group of players, though dillon and perhaps sloan are weak links.

Defense:

Harvey is clearcut #2 defenseman of all time in my opinion. He's lidstrom with a nasty physical edge and can be outright dirty without being caught. I think flaman is a bit overrated in the ATD - much of his value comes from intimidation, and atd forwards are not going to be as easily intimidated as NHLers Still, he's a better than average #2 and gives you an amazing top.pair next to Harvey.

Chara is an elite #3 - I actually think he's a bit better than Flaman. Corbeau is an elite bodychecker who isn't inept with the pick. This pair is physically intimidating to say the least, but won't provide all that much supporting offense. If you D has any weakness, I can see it being your second pairings' ability to handle fast forwards. Chara's one weakness has always been getting beaten to the outside by small, fast forwards on occasion, and I can see corbeau too far out of position going for the big hit to get back in time (how was corbeau's skating?). Still a very good pairing overall, even if I'm not all that impressed with corbeau as a number #4 (he's capable, perhaps average)

Good bottom pair - Korab brings some offense and yet more physical play. Rowe brings some good defense.

Definity one of the most physical defenses in the draft, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the most.

Goaltending:

Before the draft, I didn't think Rollins was a top 40 goalie. Now inthink he probably is, but if he is, he's definitely bottom tier. Lundqvist is a very good regular season backup.

Special teams:

Harvey is an elite PP QB who should be able to set up Chara's big shot. Chara has little skill here other than a big shot, but he's not out of place next to Harvey. If you get good krutov, the forwards on the first unit should be effective.

2nd PP is okay, not great, but nobody really out of place.

First PK is absolutely elite. Chara is one of the most effective penalty killers ever and he's next to Harvey! When mosdell is the worst part of a PK unit, you know it's great.

2nd unit is pretty good. Flaman is an elite crease clearer and can easily go on a first unit. Corbeau is ok I guess - his bodychecking will keep the crease clear at least, just hope he doesn't run around too much. Almetov is good, not sure about curry, but if guess he's good.

I wouldn't want an injury prone player like lach to play PK minutes if he doesn't have to. Even if he's perfectly capable otherwise (and he is).

- Thank You very much for a truthful and unbiased review of my team. Not that I would think you would do otherwise even if we are in the same division

- I quoted Sturminator post in this very post. Unfortunately, I won't have time to do anymore biography (I'll probably finish my Floyd Curry bio, who was an incredible playoff performer), but as he said, Art Ross could be a tough coach if necessary. From what I've read, he was a fair, but tough coach, but again GM's like Sturminator knows more on him than me.

- People are sometime very harsh on Krutov, because of the Vancouver debacle. People make him sound like he was the stupidest of player and that without a coach to control him he would fill his pool with doughnut and swim in it. I think Ross and Percival makes a good tandem for Krutov. we already talked about Ross, and Percival and Krutov can have good discussion on training and conditioning with Percival. Krutov was a brilliant and smart hockey player, not an obese 12-years-old school boy with no self control. Just like in todays NHL, some have more problem to stay in shape than others. It's true that Krutov falls on the category that needs to look out, but he's surrounded nicely and he can have elite tips and help whenever he needs it.

- Don't underestimate Lach's toughness, he was a very tough customer! I agree with everything else. I like the way you put it: puck winning by committee. The same thing apply to toughness. Three well rounded-player. I think I've made a good case in my biography that Cecil Dillon is a fringe Top-200 player of All-Time. I'm not sure where he stands on a list of top-RW. I agree with you though: whether he's a low-end 1st line RW of elite 2nd line RW, he's the 'weak' link of that unit, although I like Dillon a lot and it doesn't bother me a minute to see him patrol that first line.

- I think my 2nd line is actually above average in this draft, and considering when I picked those players, I think I got good value. I'm high on Vladimir Krutov. I will repeat to death that getting him in the mid-200's was one of the better steal. He was a very smart hockey player with a golden shot, tough as nail and can score in many ways. As for Vikulov, again I think he was another great value. Great playmaker, underrated goalscorer. I think a Makarov-lite is a very fair comparision. He didn't had the top-end speed of Makarov though, but he was a very agile skater. I think Vikulov was just as good, if not better than my own Tod Sloan, which I think I drafted a round too early. I don't mind it. I think he's an underaverage 2nd liner with a balance offense (better goalscorer though) and bring great speed. I learn alot on him and enjoy making his biography, and all three works together well. All in all, I think it's a very good 2nd line, though I havn't compared him to nay other 2nd line in this draft.

- Yes, I think my third line is the easiest to assess for my team. Like always, I like to draft solid two-way playerso n my third, and this draft is no exception. In the playoffs, Curry become an underrated offensive weapon on that third line. 7th in the 1950's in playoff goals:

PlayoffsGPGAPTSPIM
119123174038

Top-10 Playoff Scoring (1st, 6th, 10th, 11th, 12th)
Top-10 Playoff Goalscoring (2nd, 2nd, 4th, 5th)
Top-10 Playoff Assist (4th, 7th)


Top-10 Playoff Goalscorer of the 1950's
PlayersGPG
Bernard Geoffrion9851
Maurice Richard8448
Ted Lindsay7734
Jean Beliveau5531
Gordie Howe6327
Dickie Moore8725
Floyd Curry8923
Alex Delvecchio5621
Fleming Mackell7120
Jerry Toppazzini4013

Pretty elite company. Obviously, game played and playing on a dynasty helped his cause. But there's no denying he will be able to chip in on a regular pace when the stakes will be at risk.

- My 4th line is definitely not the prototypical 4th line, rough-and-tumble line. Shack definitely fit the mold. Such a great team player and guy to have in your locker room. Ans he was a decent hockey player in his own right. I reunited two-third on the famous 1960's troika, because I taught they were great values and I wanted to have some more offensive punch in my lineup. I think very few 4th line will bring the amount of offense they will. Shack was a nasty player, Loktev was gritty. It's a offensive oriented 4th line with grit. Definitely underaverage defensively for a 4th line, but it's the king of line that you can send when trailing and you need to shake up things.

- Fair assessment of my forward group. I went with skills over physical presence, as I thought with 40 teams skills among players would be more depleted and drafting defense heavy, I still wanted a competent forward group. However, you won't see any 'wimps' or easily scared players on that group. They can all hold their own against tougher and competition.

- We agree on Harvey. I don't fully disagree nor agree with the statement that players won't be as intimidate of Flaman's intimidation at this level. The level of skill is definitely far, far more superior in the ATD than in the 1950's, but I just don't know just how much tougher the ATD his. Definitely tougher, but not as tougher as the level of skills, but this apply to every aspect of the game. Gretzky playmaking skills and Orr rushes will also be less effective in this draft, so I don't know why the intimidation factor is different from those skills. And Flaman was far from a one-dimensional goon. 5-time top-10 in points among the strongest group of offensive defenceman of All-Time in Harvey, Kelly, Gadsby among others is far from non-descript. Considering we have 40 teams this time around, Flaman is most definitely a great #2 defenceman. For comparison sake, Carl Brewer was the 40th D taken.

- I agree that at ES, Chara and Corbeau are not the greatest offensive contributor. Corbeau was decent offensively. Although I may have picked Corbeau a round early, I have a hard time believing he's not a good-to-great #4 defenceman in this draft. An elite physical/body-checker/intimidator with decent offensive skills, average defensive skills and decent wheel in the ATD context. With Chara,a top-3 physical D pairing in this draft. Also, Corbeau was constant and reliable as a clock, which I feel should be valued highly among defenceman. You know exactly what you'll get of him shift after shift. Sure, Corbeau dosn't have that one or two elite season where he was away from the pack, but you'll have a hard time finding a poor season in his 16 years career, which talk alot on his level of constancy. Honestly, what's not to like? Not flashy, but very effective.

- Not much else to add. A typical 3rd pairing defenceman in the ATD, although I have to believe that they are at least above average compare to the pack.

- We won't disagree much on that matter. Rollins is by no means anything else than a bottom tier goaltender. But I think I proved, if anything, that he was a superior goaltender than the 43rd best. The still most septic will view him between 35-40, while the more optimistic will view him between 28-33. The value was amazing at 637, but he won't still me any series. As for Lundqvist, he's a strong backup indeed, who will play is fair share of game in the regular season.

- That was the plan to put Chara's shot next to Harvey. Chara's is not an elite PP player, but his shot, even at this level, his elite. You've got to elite playmakers in Lach and Harvery on both side of the ice, with a great sniper in Firsov and Krutov to deflect/blind the goaltender while being at taking rebounds and scoring cheap goals. I'm usually not good into assembling PP unit, but I think this one his very effective.

- Again, I agree. It's an average unit that works well together.

- I think Flaman is at this point still the better defenceman than Chara, but that's why I went with Chara first, because although he's a bit behind Flaman at ES, he's a good option on the PP and a elite PK, even at this level. Constructing good PP/PK unit is very important and it made my choices much easier afterwards. I don't think much team have a better 1st PK than mine.

- That's why I was happy to have almetov that late in the draft. As I explained before, I don't want an injure-prone Lach to play on the PK too much, so getting a great 2nd P center in Almetov enable me to move Lach #3, which pretty much say that he will play few seconds, while being on the ice when the penalize player will come out of the box (and perhaps setting him up for a scoring chance). I havn't read anything on Corbeau PK abilities, which I assume are okay for #2P considering his skillset. Flaman would be on the #1 PK on almost every other team, while Curry was known to play the PK in Montreal and he's a great defensive forward. While my PP is nothing extraordinary in the grand scheme of thing, I ought to believe I have one of the best PK unit of the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Forgot to review EB's spares - kapustin is a very good spare who is lightning fast, good offensively and not adverse to physical play at all. Gagnon is fine as an offensive minded winger. Two questions - what is the plan if a checker gets injured? What is the plan if Lach is out?

Marotte is a decent spare who seems fairly well rounded.
- I really lie Kapustin as a spare. In a nutshell he can replace on a second or fourth unit with ease. Probably a better player than Eddie Shack, but Shack will play the most games of the two. You're spot on on Gagnon and Marotte I think.

Mosdell and Lach as an history together, as Mosdell was in real life the player that was replacing Elmer when he was injured. Mosdell got two great offensive season (and two AS nod) while replacing Lach, so he could fill up a scoring position with ease. Almetov was a great offensive weapon, a renown playmaker with great goalscoring abilities, so I would also have no problem replacing Lach or Sloan. The versatility of my forwards, as 8 (Lach, Sloan, Mosdell, Almetov, Firsov, Dillon, Vikulov, Marcotte) can play center enable me to switch players if injury happen more easily.

As for your second question, I don't have a strong replacement if one of my top-checker goes down. If Marcotte or Curry goes down, they will be replace with Kapustin on the left side or Shack or the right wing, although none are defensive center. If Mosdell goes down, I will move Marcotte at the center position and fill the need with Shack or Kapustin. In retrospect I could of picked a defensive minded center instead of Gagnon for a spare, but the reason I went with Gagnon is: #1: I thought Gagnon was a fantastic offensive weapon for a spare in the late 900's and #2: I didn't really thought about it!

Thank you for the review TDMM. Much appreciate. You're first in line for a review of mine. I (supposedly) have a three days vacation starting on Sunday, so I'll definitely do a couple of reviews during that time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
In my research in the era, I stumbled upon an article which credits Art Ross as the progenitor of the "kitty bar the door" style of hockey which Ottawa perfected....for what that's worth. I don't have the link any more. There is also a bit of information in one of the posts on Frank Fredrickson from the Dirt thread which describes Ross as a strict coach who should be able to get the best out of Fredrickson (which he obviously did, considering the results).
- Thanks for those information on Art Ross. I was sure he was not a softy coach, but had no real concrete information. Too bad I won't have time to do a biography on him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think that the 3 minutes a 2nd PP unit will play in the playoffs is a lot more important than the 5 minutes the 4th line will play.

Obviously, its better to get a guy who is effective at both.
- On the whole Holmstrom debate. I agree with both Jarek and TDMM. The above statement is very true, but I would much prefer drafting a forward with 80% of Holmstrom capacity that can fill my 4th line adequately. At this level, Holmstrom is over his head even on a 4th line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
Pretty bloody solid team to build while on the beaches, you Aussie *******!

That is an incredibly scary top-3. The physicality and intimidation factor is through the roof. I can see why you took Harvey at four, if you had this defense core in mind all along.

Pardon my ignorance, but I think forwards might be a little below average. I like the top line, but after that I don't know enough about the Russians to really make a good judgement. (and sorry, I know put in a ton of effort into your bios, but I don't have enough spare time to read those novels. I have a few bookmarked though, hopefully for some light reading one day!)

I'd like to try and get through what I recall you posting as a groundbreaking Rollins bio before I make a full comment on that, but the comment right now is that goaltending is probably below average regardless. Still, with a top-3 lead by Doug Harvey, followed by Zdeno Chara and Fern Flaman, who cares.
- I'm in Karratha, Western Australia for now for work. no beach here unfortunately (But the beaches in Sydney, Melbourne and the created beach in Brisbane was amazing!)

- I honestly had no specific plans when I took Doug Harvey at #4. I knew I wanted a defensive oriented team, but with both Chara and Flaman taken in the 120's last draft, they were not in early consideration for pick 152 and 157. I'm happy the way my defence turns out. Corbeau is definitely not on their level in term of hockey skills, but he's perhaps the most intimidating of the four.

- Don't worry. The fun with my biography is that they will be on the Internet forever! You can read them whenever you have the chance . On answering TDMM post, I talked alot about my forward, so it might be a nice 2-3 minutes read to get an approximate view on my forward. In a nutshell:

Anatoli Firsov: Incredible offensive player with no weaknesses. Terrific goalscorer, terrific playmaker. Just as fast as Valeri Kharlamov. Decent to good defensively and while not imposing, he could hold his own against any big forward. Versatile as he can play LW or C with ease. Played in the 1960's and early 1970's, so competition is an issue.

Vladimir Krutov: Offensive stalwart. Very strong, great goalscorer who can do it in many ways. A brilliant hockey player who saw the ice better than most. The Vancouver debacle and the accusation of steroids use is the only thing that keep him away from anyone top-150 list.

Vladimir Vikulov: Known as a terrific playmaker, with great goalscoring exploit. From 1966 to 1972, compares well in term of overall offense to Boris Mikhailov. Not a fast 'in-line' skater, but a very agile one, I think Alexei Kovalev is a good comparision in term of skating style. I view him very highly, as I think he was better than my own Tod Sloan (if you know Sloan better)

Konstantin Loktev: RW of the famous 1960's troika of Venjamin Alexandrov - Alexander Almetov. The grittiest player of the three. Great international resume with deadly stickhandling skills. Competition is an issue.

Alexander Almetov: C of the famous 1960's troika of Venjamin Alexandrov - konstantin Loktev. Incredible PK player who could play defence if necessary, but not a good defensive center. Great offensive resume, mostly better than Loktev. Very good international resume. The Loktev-Almetov duo was inseparable during the time they played together. Retired in 1967 at the same time of Loktev, as he thought he couldn't play without him. Again, competition is an issue.

The Almetov-Loktev takes at most 5 minutes each to read, while it may take you 10 minutes at most for the Vikulov one. Krutov is mostly stats oriented to show his dominance, but a nice resume if you don't know how dominant he was in Russia and in international competition.

IMO, it is a groundbreaking biography, perhaps even better than my Anatoli Firsov one. However, it's still very true that he is an underaverage goaltender in this draft. I pretty much explain my view of him in my response to TDMM above.

Thank you for the review VancityLuongo. You came a long way from the 14 years old who participated in ATD#7 (or#8?). Those are all nice reviews. You're second on my list of teams to review

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Old
04-08-2011, 11:18 AM
  #166
DaveG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Alright, here goes, completed debut ATD roster!

Line combos obviously not set in stone just yet:



Dawson City Nuggets


Coach: Herb Brooks
Assistant Coach: Vyacheslav Bykov
Captain: Gilbert Perreault
Assistant Captains: Michel Goulet, Cy Wentworth

Michel Goulet - Gilbert Perreault - Mike Bossy
Venjamin Alexandrov - Vladimir Shadrin - Dino Ciccarelli
Glen Skov - Metro Prystai - Jere Lehtinen
Dave "Tiger" Williams - Doru Tureanu - Allan "Scotty" Davidson
x - Steven Stamkos, Ray Ferraro

Frantisek Pospisil - Oldrich Machac
Clarence "Taffy" Abel - Cy Wentworth
Craig Ludwig - Darius Kasparaitis
x - Anton Volchenkov

Clint Benedict
Viktor Konovolenko


PP1: Goulet-Perreault-Bossy-Davidson-Machac

PP2: Alexandrov-Shadrin-Ciccarelli-Tureanu-Wentworth

PK1: Shadrin-Lehtinen-Pospisil-Abel

PK2: Prystai-Skov-Kasparaitis-Ludwig
First line: I really like this line, doesn't hurt that it has 2 of my all time favorites in Perreault and Bossy. Only thing I will say is that it lacks much of an edge to it. They could have some problems with the physicality of the division.

Second line: I like the balance of this line better then the first to be honest. Dino provides some nice grit to go with a pretty good scorer-playmaker combo.

Third line: I like Lehtinen and Skov for a shutdown line, don't know much about Prystai in that regard, either negatively or positively.

Fourth line: Don't know much about Doru, though the compliments from the IIHF and Tikhonov are a good starting point to figure that he belongs. Davidson looks like a pretty good player, and Williams obviously adds some tenacity to that line.

Top Pair: I like Pospisil, not necessarily as a #1 here, but putting him with his partner Machac is probably a good move to make up for that.

Second Pair: Abel is huge for his era, should come in handy in this division, again putting two teammates together with a very capable in his own right Wentworth.

Third Pair: Ludwig and Kasparaitis are a nasty pairing, though lacking much in the way of skating ability or puck movement from the back end IMO. Will still be tough to play against though.

Goaltending: Benedict is a pretty solid goaltender and Konovalenko is arguably one of the top 3 Soviet goalies of all time.

Overall puck moving might be a bit of a concern on the defensive end, going a bit against Herbie's style there, but this is still a well constructed team. A bit Euro heavy, but that's probably a plus with Brooks as the Head Coach.

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04-08-2011, 01:53 PM
  #167
TheDevilMadeMe
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EB, just two things:

1) I really don't see any case for the 50s to be considered a better era for offensive defensemen than the late 70s or 1980s.

2) 28-33 would be quite optimistic indeed for Rollins

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04-08-2011, 02:28 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post



Head Coach: Joel Quenneville
Assistant Coach: Marc Crawford

Roy Conacher-Syl Apps Sr.-Gordie Drillon
Keith Tkachuk-Dale Hawerchuk-Billy Boucher
Frank "Pud" Glass-Ernie Russell-Bruce Stuart
Wayne Merrick-Ryan Kesler-Ron Stewart

Spares: RW Billy Gilmour, W Bruce Ridpath

Denis Potvin-Ken Morrow
Hobey Baker-Dunc Munro
Sandis Ozolinsh-Al Arbour
D/F Walter Smaill

Dominik Hasek
Ryan Miller


PP1: Tkachuk-Hawerchuk-Boucher-Potvin-Ozolinsh
PP2: Conacher-Apps-Drillon-Baker-Munro

PK1: Kesler-Stewart-Arbour-Morrow
PK2: Merrick-Glass-Munro-Potvin
good offensive ability throughout the F's, but i think they are a bit weak defensively. as far as i know, none of the top 6 were noted for their D, and drillon was noted for his lack of D. TML used bob davidson, a defensive F, with apps and drillon to compensate for drillon.

apps and drillon were both fast players. i have read that roy conacher was the best skater of the conachers. lionel conacher was slow and charlie was fairly fast, so roy conacher was probably fast, but i am not sure.
roy conacher was apparently a relatively one dimensional offensive player, though.

this column says roy and charlie conacher were not reliable backcheckers.

frank brimsek said in 1948 that roy conacher was the best in the NHL at scoring from in close, and had many dekes. drillon was also excellent at scoring from in close. brimsek was said by the paper to be the best at stopping F's at close range.

i tend to think hasek is the best goalie and i don't think you can be at a disadvantage against any goalie.

i don't think morrow with potvin is a problem. morrow has a defensive role and he was good at it. baker and munro both had short careers. baker was a big star and was famous beyond hockey fans, but only played a few seasons.

i read in a 1940s newspaper that baker was very fast. i don't know how the writer would have seen baker, but even if he did not, it means baker had a reputation for speed.

potvin is one of the best PP QB's and ozolinsh was very good as well. hawerchuk seems like a better option for point of PP than munro. any reason conacher, apps and drillon are not on 1st PP? i think your best F's should be with your best PP QB.

overall, i think you have a high scoring team, but with potentially too many defensive weaknesses. fortunately, you have hasek.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Hartford Whalers



Busher Jackson - Bobby Clarke (C) - Punch Broadbent
J.P. Parise - Joe Nieuwendyk (A) - Bill Mosienko
Dave Trottier - Joel Otto - John McKenzie
Doc Romnes - Erich Kühnhackl - Pat Verbeek
Igor Liba, Ladislav Trojak

Herb Gardiner (A) - Börje Salming
Paul Reinhart - Ott Heller
Glen Wesley - Phil Russell
Steve Chiasson

Ed Belfour
Riley Hern

Coach: Peter Laviolette
Assistant coach: Alf Smith

PP1: Busher Jackson - Joe Nieuwendyk - Bobby Clarke - Paul Reinhart - Börje Salming
PP2: Punch Broadbent - Erich Kühnhackl - Bill Mosienko - Herb Gardiner - Ott Heller

PK1: Bobby Clarke - Punch Broadbent - Herb Gardiner - Börje Salming
PK2: Dave Trottier - Joel Otto - Glen Wesley - Ott Heller


seems similar to me to guelph: very solid defensive team with no glaring weaknesses, and no players really out of place, but lacking some firepower.

1st unit can score while checking other scoring lines, which is a nice advantage. broadbent was not a great scorer outside of '22, but provides physicality and D. clarke, salming and gardiner were very good both ways, and should increase jackson's and broadbent's scoring, and are also your best defensive players.


2nd line is fairly mediocre. nieuwendyk was good on PP, but only scored 60p 7 times in 18 seasons. partly b/c of injury, though. parise is a good but unspectacular worker and playmaker.

you have some good scoring depth in kuhnhackl, verbeek, trottier, romnes and mckenzie.

belfour is above average in ATD, imo. can be a bit erratic, though. sometimes was excellent and kept his team in a game or even a series, but then would allow a weak goal to lose. usually very good, though, and i think belfour was more reliable in a more defensive environment which you have here.

clarke, otto and nieuwendyk give you great strength on faceoffs, which is a nice advantage generally, but especially on PP and PK.

PP should be important, since you do not have great offense. i do like your PP's and PK's. i would also give russell some SHTOI.

blueline is very solid and all pairs have a good balance of D, offense, mobility and physicality.


what kind of coach was alf smith?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Minnesota Fighting Saints


GM: Nalyd Psycho
Head Coach: Lester Patrick
Captain: Yvan Cournoyer
Assistant Captains: Lloyd Cook & Russell Bowie

#12 Dickie Moore-#26 Peter Stastny-#21 Yvan Cournoyer
#11 Gordie Roberts-#13 Russell Bowie-#24 Sergei Makarov
#9 Murray Murdoch-#16 Bobby Holik-#3 Alf Skinner
#14 Ab McDonald-#5 Jaroslav Holik-#19 Lorne Carr

#77 Ernie Johnson-#56 Sergei Zubov
#8 Lloyd Cook-#7 Art Duncan
#6 Don Awrey-#23 Jeff Beukeboom

#1 Georges Vezina
#2 Jirí Králík

Spares: #22 Bohuslav Stastny, #62 Sami Pahlsson, #65 Sami Salo, #4 Yuri Fedorov

First Power Play Unit:
Moore-Stastny-Cournoyer
Johnson-Zubov

Second Power Play Unit:
Roberts-Bowie-Makarov
Cook-Duncan

First Penalty Kill Unit:
Murdoch-Cournoyer
Johnson-Awrey

Second Penalty Kill Unit:
Bowie-McDonald
Cook-Beukeboom
certainly one of the strongest offensive teams. top 6 are very dangerous, but even the bottom 6 has some offensive ability.

i read somewhere that a mark of lester patrick's teams is a dynamic passing attack, which i think you have. cook and duncan were dangerous offensively and i think played in an offensive environment.

moore is probably the closest to a perfectly balanced LW. he was good at everything and was very dynamic.

PK is a problem, imo. i don't think cournoyer or bowie PKed. i don't think PK even existed during bowie's career. cournoyer was apparently a PP specialist early in his career b/c he was a weak defensive player.

you could possibly put carr on PK. EB posted a link that showed carr was a good defensive F. i don't know if carr was a PKer, though.

F's are your great strength, but i don't think any of your d-men were defensive liabilities. early zubov would be, though. i really like the idea of cook and duncan together. chemistry between d-men is also important. awrey was one of the weakest offensive players drafted, other than goalies, and was not very skilled, so that pair may tend to get stuck in the defensive zone.

i think moose johnson's ability to play PP is questionable. i have read in one place that his puck skills were lacking, but in others that they were not. possibly a result of him getting more used to playing with his mangled hand later in his career. i have less doubts about johnson's hand than before, since BM67 pointed out that he was not missing all his fingers, and it is unknown which fingers were missing. i also found another player from '50s with missing fingers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Am I missing something? As far as I'm aware, lidstrom and konstantinov were never regular partners and only played together on the PK. The regular pairings were lidstrom-Murphy, and fetisov-konstantinov as far ad I know.
murphy and konstantinov only played on the same team for 32 games.

lidstrom and konstantinov very rarely played together, outside of PK.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
- A wonderful top 6. You absolutely did the right thing by splitting up Bobby and Brett. Lemaire is still a perfectly solid partner for Hull, who just needs someone to get the puck over to him. He can do the rest.
i like lemaire with hull b/c lemaire willingly adjusted his game to the needs of his linemates and team.

stasiuk also played with a W who liked to have the puck (howe), and was a worker for the uke line. bucyk and stasiuk did much of the dirty work while horvath took shots.

Quote:
- Forsberg is probably in my top 5 non-Habs players of all-time. Love the way he plays, and he falls into the Eric Lindros category of "how much better could he have been?". Kirk Muller is probably a poor 2nd liner here, but I understand why he's up there.
imo, most important thing about forsberg here is that in addition to being a great playmaker, which brett hull needs, he provides much time in the offensive zone due to his puck possession and puck protection.

since brett hull's value is much lower outside the offensive zone, i think forsberg increases hull's value.

Quote:
- Decent 3rd line. Don't know very much about Ward, but Broten and Drury were both very adequate performers.

- Like the 4th line, if you're going for shutdown. Duchesne was a very strong PKer whom I forgot about when I was picking, and Jarvis is someone you certainly don't have to worry about getting injured, and he's also quite good.
4th line is certainly a checking line. will take many defensive zone faceoffs, but will get the least ESTOI.

ward was above average in size, gritty, very fast, and a 2 way RW who matched up against top LW's and was also a good goalscorer:
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=169

ward was nearly an AS at RW several times. i think ward should be a regular in ATD and i think only a lack of knowledge has kept him out.

my 3rd line is also a checking line. drury, broten and ward were all good defensive F's who PKed and played against top opponents. broten was small and drury not big, so they will probably be used mostly against smaller, faster lines.

Quote:
- In my honest opinion, your defense, as a whole, is average at best. I've actually never seen anyone use Reg Noble as a defenseman, so I really find that to be intriguing. Hatcher is also a good shutdown guy.

- Rafalski and Ulf are good contrast, the typical offense/defense pairing.

- I honestly don't know much about Seiling, and Lumme stopped playing right around the time I got into hockey.
i agree my blueline is a clear weakness. natural result of starting with 3 F's.

lumme was an offensive d-man who was not weak defensively, but not strong either. not sure i should have lumme in the top 6 instead of as a spare. lumme was generally not a bad defensive player, but was error prone. i drafted stackhouse before lumme and had him as #6 until recently, but am more familiar with lumme. i have only seen a small amount of video of stackhouse.

i will probably return stackhouse to the lineup, since he was about as good offensively as lumme.

seiling was a reliable defensive d-man who played for canada in '64 olympics and '72 series. often played with brad park. not especially physical like hatcher or samuelsson, but not soft. named as one of the top defensive d-men in the '74 toronto star coaches poll, after white, salming and laperriere.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=680204

Quote:
- The way you've listed your PP units somewhat confuses me. I understand Muller/Drury are the face-off men, but then what?

- No issues with the PK units
all or almost all PP players are in roles they played. bobby hull on left point. rafalski on right point. brett hull in slot. muller near the net. forsberg on side.

broten on left point. noble or lumme on right point. stasiuk at net. lemaire and drury on wings.


i tried to get players who were good on faceoffs. jarvis obviously is one of the best ever. muller, broten, drury were all good. i don't know about lemaire.

Quote:
- Babcock is a solid coach who will likely continue to rise in the rankings. He may be top 15-20 material soon, if he isn't already
i picked babcock b/c he emphasizes team D and shot suppression through puck pressure.

when lumley was voted best goalie in '54 and '55, he had a physical blueline that limited shots against. hatcher, noble and samuelsson were very physical. seiling was a very good defensive d-man.

babcock requires defensive play from F's. among my F's, only the hulls are questionable defensively.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I really wish nik did a profile on noble. Hatcher is a #3 playing over his head as a #2, so it would be really good to know just how good noble was. As a defenseman, he wasn't much of a scorer, right? I could see nik having major trouble with the transition game if noble isn't good at it. Hatcher and Ulf provide nothing in the puck moving dept and how many ES minutes do you want to give rafalski at this level?
noble was one of the fastest skaters of his era and was a great playmaker as a F, so it is unlikely he would be weak in transition.

from a report about '26 hart voting:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 3-18-1926
The votes show some surprises for Montrealers, and some other interesting sidelights. Reg. Noble, who is highly regarded by supporters of the Montreal team for his effectiveness and who was expected to be well up in the list, received only 14 points and took 12th place. Noble was highly favored by critics in these parts, but his usefulness was not as apparent to those in other cities around the circuit.
that article lists the top 14 in hart voting, which i will post in the award and AS thread.

a toronto paper compared noble to nighbor (both C's who were strong defensively and great scorers). noble was much more physical than nighbor, and was much more undisciplined, on and off the ice. in '33, noble held out and then showed up overweight. he was cut and signed by maroons. '33 was noble's last season.

noble was voted MVP of detroit falcons in '32, his 2nd to last season.

vancouver sun wrote in 1933 that since '27, noble "has been the mainstay of the detroit defense--until this year," and wrote a few weeks later that noble "was practically the whole defense for several seasons."

aurel joliat picked shore and noble (and busher jackson, nighbor and bill cook) as the best opponents he has faced, possibly b/c noble played well against morenz as both F and D:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette: 4-1-1927
Here (Herb Gardiner) led thrust after thrust that was ever dangerous, especially in the 2nd period when Canadiens made their big bid to end the game in the regulation period of time and backed the Maroons up under a terrific attack that was only stemmed by the steady play of Reg Noble and the brilliance of Benedict in the Maroon goal.
...
Munro and Noble fought gallantly on defence, Noble in particular being a bulwark defensively and playing until he was exhausted.
...
Morenz was running wild around the ice, with Noble the only Maroon who could hold him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Cities Star: 1-16-1926
The bottle throwing started when Morenz was carried off the ice, completely knocked out by a heavy body-check from Reg Noble at the Montreal defense.
frank selke wrote in 1962 that his players told him noble was a devastating hitter.

a column about speed, which mentions noble as one of the fastest players of earlier eras:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...th+keats&hl=en

it says under the picture of noble that he was still fast at age 35:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...eg+noble&hl=en

i was planning to write a bio of noble, but i didn't for a few reasons (health, lack of some resources, computer problems, general lethargy).

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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
The best way I can see is PP% with Holmstrom around and PP% without him. overpass might be the only one who can do this, but Holmstrom is injured enough that the sample size with him off should be fairly significant. Because of the nature of his job, I think this is a valid comparison.
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Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
I would be very interested to see the results of this analysis, should it be done. I think it can definitely justify Holmstrom as a 4th line PP specialist in the ATD, or it can relegate him to spare/MLD status.

Because, as far as I'm concerned, there's no need to pick him unless you're using him on the PP. Is he good defensively?
holmstrom is not at all good defensively.

imo, holmstrom's screening is overrated. he is very good at it and at deflecting the puck, but screening is not an unstoppable play, and is not terribly difficult.

imo, as important as holmstrom's play at the net is his play on the boards (in real life, not in ATD). he is slow, which makes him less effective at getting to pucks, but he is a hard working player who often plays through injuries and takes a huge amount of abuse. often seems to me and many other DRW fans that old rules are applied to players defending him. he gets cross checked and slashed often with impunity.


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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
Toronto St.Pats

(1919-1927)
GM: Leafs Forever13
Head Coach: Pete Green
Captain: Ron Francis
Assistant Captains:Pierre Pilote, Harry Watson

Nels Stewart-Ron Francis(C)-Dave Taylor
Harry P. Watson(A)-Bernie Morris-Martin St. Louis
Percy Galbraith-Charlie Burns-Eric Nesterenko
Gerard Gallant-Bernie Nicholls-Leo Labine

Pierre Pilote(A)-Albert "Babe" Siebert
Art Ross-Ed Van Impe
Brian Engblom-Doug Barkley

Ken Dryden
John Ross Roach

Spares:
Mike Rogers, C
Cecil Blachford, F
Fredrik Olausson, D
Joe Juneau, C/LW

Special Teams:
PP1: Babe Siebert-Nels Stewart-Martin St.Louis-Pierre Pilote-Art Ross
PP2: Bernie Nicholls-Bernie Morris-Dave Taylor-Ron Francis-Doug Barkley

PK1: Charlie Burns-Eric Nesterenko-Brian Engblom- Ed Van Impe
PK2: Ron Francis-Martin St. Louis-Babe Siebert-Pierre Pilote
PK3: Bernie Nicholls-Percy Galbraith-Brian Engblom-Ed Van Impe
how will you team play? i think pete green instituted the passive defensive system of the ottawa dynasty.

i like the idea of stewart at LW. he was lazy and not a great backchecker, but i have read that he was a very good stickhandler and poke checker. francis and taylor were both good defensively as were pilote and siebert, which helps compensate for stewart's weaknesses, and get play going into the offensive zone.

pilote and siebert were both fast, which helps compensate for the relative slowness of the 1st line, and both were good playmakers, which makes the unit more dangerous especially when the F's are being closely checked. pilote was small but very feisty and siebert was very physically strong, so they should be able to play against bigger physical F's.

i am not sure why morris is not in HHOF, but he should be. i don't know anything about morris besides offense. your 2nd line should be a good scoring line. morris and especially st louis are small, but tenacity is more important than size, imo.

blueline has no weak spots, other than possibly barkley. barkley only played 3 and 1/2 seasons. he was having an AS season at the time of his career ending eye injury, though, and i think was seen as a future star in his rookie season.
barkley has played about as much in the NHL as drew doughty. barkley has a few seasons in AHL, though.

i liked what you found about art ross. i had heard for years that he was a superstar player, but it seems his reputation is weaker on this site for some reason. but you showed he was thought of as among the best ever.

pilote was the top PP QB between harvey and orr, and nels stewart is one of the best ever near the net, which is the core of a strong PP.

your PK should be good. nesterenko and burns were among the best PKers of their eras, francis and st louis were both effective PKers and francis was a great faceoff man. you have a solid group of d-men and obviously dryden. any reason ross is not on your PK? i have only heard and read that he was a good defensive player.

like many other teams, no big weaknesses on the team, which always makes ranking teams very difficult.


one concern is penalties. most of your d-men and many of your F's took many penalties. i don't know where art ross ranked in penalties in his career, but i know he was a physical player who was not averse to violence on the ice.

dryden's habs generally took few penalties, and having so many d-men who took penalties could be a problem for PK.

i think green advocated discipline, but i am not sure how much his teams were penalized.


Last edited by nik jr: 04-14-2011 at 06:39 PM.
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04-08-2011, 02:28 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
I promised above I'd point out things that I think stand out; so the first thing that stood out is that Briere is on the top line? You have two-thirds of a traditional ATD first line, but Briere seems out of place to me. I'm sure you've explained it somewhere, but I haven't read any other assassinations or many posts in the lineup advice thread, so forgive me.

I really like all four of your LW-C combos though. Leclair-Lindros will likely cause some damage against second pairings.

Good choice sheltering Hollett with a defensive mastermind like Horton. Goodfellow is an excellent second pairing defenseman.

Goaltending is possibly a concern, but I'm pretty sure you're already aware of that, considering when you took your netminders. themselves.
Already explained Briere in the draft thread, I know he's a poor 1st liner - he's a complimentatry player for a sniper and a superstar. It also balances my top 6 better by moving Wharram down to the 2nd line.

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04-08-2011, 02:35 PM
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Regarding Art Ross, is it an issue that he is on the 2nd pairing and he was voted as the "Most Selfish Player" during his career?

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04-08-2011, 02:37 PM
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Garnish Phantoms

GMs: tony d and DaveG

Head Coach: Pat Quinn

Kevin Stevens - Joe Malone - Glenn Anderson (A)
Hec Kilrea - Doug Gilmour (C) - Rick Tocchet
Rabbit McVeigh - Butch Goring - Kevin Dineen (A)
Ray Whitney - Cliff Ronning - Tomas Sandstrom
Rick Kehoe, Keith Acton

Rob Blake (A) - Harvey Pulford
Lennart Svedberg - Dollard St Laurent
Kevin Hatcher - Chris Phillips
Dave Manson, Dick Redmond

Terry Sawchuk
Miikka Kiprusoff

PP1: Ray Whitney - Joe Malone - Rick Tocchet - Rob Blake - Cliff Ronning
PP2: Kevin Stevens - Doug Gilmour - Glenn Anderson - Kevin Hatcher - Lennart Svedberg

PK1: Butch Goring - Kevin Dineen - Dollard St. Laurent - Harvey Pulford
PK2: Rabbit McVeigh - Doug Gilmour - Rob Blake - Chris Phillips
Coaching: I've never been a big fan of Pat Quinn. I always thought his refusal to accept the realities of the dead puck era hurt the Leafs. Still, he's a worthy coach at this level even if not the beat tactician. Loves aggressive hockey - offense and physical play.

Forwards:

Joe Malone is a great center, but he's actually fairly togh to build around. He's an amazing goal scorer and really fast by some reports, but really doesn't do anything else.

I'm not sure how good his linemates will be at getting him the puck. Stevens will create a lot of room, but I don't think he's much ofna passer. Anderson is a great clutch goal score with lots of lots of speed and some grit himself, but he's really more of a shooter too. You do have some puck movement from your defensemen, but much of blake's offense also comes from his shot.

Gilmour is a great two-way second line center. Tocchet is a great fighter and will open up more space. Between Stevens and tocchet, your scoring lines won't be pushed around. I'd really prefer it if Gilmour had a triggerman in either side better than kilrea or tocchet. On the other hand, the kilrea-gilmour pair is excellent defensively and could be used to check opposing forwards in a two-way manner.

Mccveigh-goring are good two-way guys and Dineen adds some grit as well as a scoring touch.

4th line has some great offensive pop, though not so much grit.

Good offensive minded spares, though you could be in trouble if a checker is injured.

Defense:

I already said I like Blake better as an elite #2 than a number 1. Great guy in the offensive and defensive zones, but prone to getting out of position at times. Pulford is a defensive beast but is he fast enough to back up Blake? On the other hand, this is one of the most physically intimidating pairings in the draft!

I like that Svedberg beat out the Soviet defenders for all stars at the WCs. Much more meaningful than any Swedish stats and shows he belongs here. St Laurent is a solid stay at home guy. Not sure if either man is a natural #3, but they definitely work as a pairing.

Hatcher is a big defenseman with an even bigger shot, but is an adventure In his own zone to say the least. Phillips is very good at holding down the fort, but apparently is most comfortable with a more responsible partner.

Redmond is a good offensive minded spare and Manson provides heavy hitting and a heavy shot. Good thing your three stay at home defensemen were very durable.

Goaltending:

Sawchuk is a great goalie and can cover up for a lot of flaws. Most old-timers se to like him better than Plante even! Kipper is an elite backup, better than a couple of starters IMO. Will he be content to start only a few games? Either way, it's probably a good problem to have.

Special teams: you really need to put Malone and gilmour together, i think. Malone can play LW if need be. Your wingers are pretty weak offensively after Anderson, donor makes sense to stack the first unit. Ronning can set up Blake's shot and the pointmen on the second unit are fine.

Penalty killing defensemen are very good. I might even keep Blake and Pulford together on the PK - both are monsters on the PK and Blake's endurance is well known.

Goring-Dineen seems awfully weak for a first wave of penalty killing up front. Kilrea seems like a better option than dineen.

Overall:

Great strength up the middle, but the offensive upside of the wings is limited past Anderson.

Sawchuk compensates for a solid defense that's well built but lacking a true #1 or top notch #3.

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04-08-2011, 02:42 PM
  #172
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Regarding Art Ross, is it an issue that he is on the 2nd pairing and he was voted as the "Most Selfish Player" during his career?
ED van impe handles the puck like a grenade, so Ross will be free to rush the puck as much as he wants

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04-08-2011, 03:08 PM
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ED van impe handles the puck like a grenade, so Ross will be free to rush the puck as much as he wants
I was more or less referiing to the fact that he wont be receiving first pairing minutes.

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04-08-2011, 04:14 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Babe siebert really needs to be on the first PK over Engblom, even if it means taking him off the PP. Ugh, he's such a good fit on the PP, but you're giving the big PK minutes to really inferior defensemen.
Hmm, you do raise a good point there. I could try and swap him and Francis on the PP, though I'll have to think about it. This is why I wanted the special team advice earlier. I'll bring it to the advice thread again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
Congratulations on building another strong team. As I see the main strength of your is that there are many weaknesses, it is really well-constructed.
..
i like Pete Green as your coach. A team like yours, which isn't the most talented, but has so much structure can use a "system" coach. The only player who may not fit is Ross.

i like the way you are using Siebert, i think you should put Francis on the point of your first PP, i think Ross' offence was more about rushing and speed, which is IMO more suited for ES. And i'd defenitely put Siebert with Van Impe on your top PK-unit.
another thing i don't like, is that you are using your second and third best forwards on your second PK-unit...

You have a very strong, very balanced team, great goaltending, and very well-constructed forward lines. Like i said, your team doesn't have many weaknesses, and none of them are glaring.
Thanks for the mostly positively review. You bring a fair point on Francis vs Ross on the point I'll have to consider.

I will note that Ross did develop what was essentially a very early version of the trap whilst a player-coach and apparently was a part of executing it quite well, so I think he can work under Green's style.

I wouldn't call it too abnormal to use your best forwards on the PK; guys like Lemieux and Gretzky seemed to be used quite a bit. Francis probably has to stay on the second PK unit for options, though I could swap St. Louis with Galbraith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
how will you team play? i think pete green instituted the passive defensive system of the ottawa dynasty.

blueline has no weak spots, other than possibly barkley. barkley only played 3 and 1/2 seasons. he was having an AS season at the time of his career ending eye injury, though, and i think was seen as a future star in his rookie season.
barkley has played about as much in the NHL as drew doughty. barkley has a few seasons in AHL, though.

i liked what you found about art ross. i had heard for years that he was a superstar player, but it seems his reputation is weaker on this site for some reason. but you showed he was thought of as among the best ever.

your PK should be good. nesterenko and burns were among the best PKers of their eras, francis and st louis were both effective PKers and francis was a great faceoff man. you have a solid group of d-men and obviously dryden. any reason ross is not on your PK? i have only heard and read that he was a good defensive player.

like many other teams, no big weaknesses on the team, which always makes ranking teams very difficult.

one concern is penalties. most of your d-men and many of your F's took many penalties. i don't know where art ross ranked in penalties in his career, but i know he was a physical player who was not averse to violence on the ice.

dryden's habs generally took few penalties, and having so many d-men who took penalties could be a problem for PK.

i think green advocated discipline, but i am not sure how much his teams were penalized.
And thank you for another good review.

It's tricky to say with Green; there's good evidence he did defense style, but then there is also evidence of him being able to break from that and his Senators teams, skilled as they were, did quite well offensively. I am thinking a hopeful balance between that passive style, which I think I've got a strong enough defense throughout for, but with the ability to break out of it for a more offensive style.

Barkley's also tricky, but I think he did do quite well for his short career- playing a wel rounded strong game and 4th amongst D-scoring over his career. Though not a particularly good #6, I can admit.

Glad someone else read that bio Ross is was the big one I uncovered a lot of good stuff on. I think his greatness and all-around ability should be a lot more substantied now.

Hmm; you've got a fair point there on PIMs, though I guess I'm willing to take that as a weakness for good toughness.

As for no Ross on the PK, I probably could use him (I'm really going to have to iron out my special teams it seems). I figured I should run with my top PKers more, and that Pilote was more higher-porifle than Ross, but I have found more on Ross's defense than Pilote's really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Regarding Art Ross, is it an issue that he is on the 2nd pairing and he was voted as the "Most Selfish Player" during his career?
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
I was more or less referiing to the fact that he wont be receiving first pairing minutes.
I don't really consider it particularly much. He is the man on his pairing, and when he went to Ottawa later in his career and did well he wasn't really "the guy" there, if I'm not mistaken.

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04-08-2011, 04:31 PM
  #175
Velociraptor
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My team is finalized.

Winnipeg Falcons


Manager: jkrx



Head Coach: Scotty Bowman
Assistant Coach:
Captain: Yzerman
Assistant Captains: Stevens, Brind'Amour

ROSTER
Brendan Shanahan - Steve Yzerman - Marian Hossa
Brian Bellows - Rod Brind'Amour - Bob Nystrom
P.J. Axelsson - Brent Sutter - Terry O'Reilly
Kirk Maltby - Pete Stemkowski - Claude Larose
Spares: Bob Probert, Johan Franzen, Russ Courtnall

Stevens - Carl Brewer
Brad McCrimmon - Rob Ramage
Calle Johansson - Aaron Ward
Spares: Anders Eldebrink

Mike Vernon
"Pekka" Lindmark

PP1: Shanahan - Yzerman - Nystrom, Hossa - Brewer

PP2: Bellows - Brind'Amour - O'Reilly, Stevens - Calle Johansson

PK1: Yzerman - Hossa, Stevens - Brewer

PK2: Brind'Amour - Sutter, McCrimmon - Ramage
Assassination 3 of 4 for the Jim Robson Division.

FORWARDS

First Line: Pretty good first line. Yzerman and Shanahan have obvious chemistry together, and Hossa is a nice fit on wing for them. I don't remember Shanny being a phenomenal defensive player? (correct me if I'm wrong) under Bowman, Yzerman will excel defensively and the line should be pretty successful in both aspects of the game.

Second Line: Brind'Amour is a guy who can do it all, great player. His wingers? Brian Bellows is good offensively, but didn't prove much else. I don't see Bob Nystrom as a second liner in the ATD. His best season was 59 points, good grinder. Not so sure he is the best option for a second line, isn't up to beat offensively with the other two, he could disturb some chemistry in the line.

Third Line: Rough line to play against, P.J. Axelsson was a good two-way forward. O'Reilly is a rough customer who will without a doubt cost your team with serving very idiotic, senseless penalties. But he will provide a good two-way game, and could be useful offensively at times. Respectable, grinding third line.

Fourth Line: Maltby provides some good defense, but not good offense. I don't know much of the other two, decent defensive line I guess.

Spares: Probert is a good fill in for a bottom-6 injury, Franzen? Sorry but he doesn't belong here. I don't care how many multiple goal games he's had, he's injury-prone and inconsistent. Maybe in a few years. Courtnall is a guy who played a responsible two-way game. Not a terrible spare.

DEFENSE:

First Pairing: Good pairing, Stevens is one of the best all-time defensive defenseman. Nobody will want to cross the blue line when he's there. Brewer is a good two-way defenseman. Nice pair, they should do some damage offensively and defensively.

Second Pairing: McCrimmon was a rough, little guy. He punished people, for his size he was great at it. Ramage was a solid defenseman who could do a lot of things, wasn't bad offensively. Should be another rough pairing to play against.

Third Pairing: Johansson wasn't a terrible offensive defenseman, and I recall Aaron Ward being a pretty responsible stay-at-home defenseman. Nice contrast pair.

Spares: Anders who? Not sure about Eldebrink, I know the Canucks tried to bring him to NA in the 80's, but I know nothing about his game.

GOALTENDING

This is a particularly weak goaltending tandem. Vernon is an ATD basement starter, not a terrible playoff goalie though. No idea what Lindmark brings to the table, he went in the AAA draft last time as a back-up.

COACHING

You have the best coach of all-time in Bowman. And some of his former players, that's a good quality. He knows how to win, perhaps he was taken a little early, but he'll be able to whip any team into shape.

SPECIAL TEAMS

Pretty good, not entirely sold on Hossa as a defensive forward, first PK might be a little too much for him. And O'Reilly could lose his temper and eliminate the power play, making it 4-on-4, like I said if he is calm he can be an asset.

OVERALL

Not a bad entry, first line should provide potent offense, a few players puzzle me (Franzen, Eldebrink and Lindmark). But you can prove their strengths when it's time. Defense is pretty good, I like your first pairing especially. I don't see much offense coming from either of your bottom two lines. Definitely a team built to hold a lead, Vernon is not the best guy to have between the pipes, then again I realize you were limited in choice.


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