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ATD 2011 Line-up Assassination Thread

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Old
04-08-2011, 03:44 PM
  #176
TheDevilMadeMe
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Jkrx has to have one of the most defensively responsible top lines in the draft. Yzerman's scoring went way down under Bowman, but he won a Selke!

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04-08-2011, 03:48 PM
  #177
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jkrx's first line will struggle defensively with a Selke winning center and a winger who has two top 5 Selke finishes among wingers?

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04-08-2011, 03:58 PM
  #178
Velociraptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
jkrx's first line will struggle defensively with a Selke winning center and a winger who has two top 5 Selke finishes among wingers?
The Selke Trophy is basically the best "Defensive Center", sure Hossa gets recognition for it. But I wouldn't call him a defensive phenomenon by any means.

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04-08-2011, 04:02 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
The Selke Trophy is basically the best "Defensive Center", sure Hossa gets recognition for it. But I wouldn't call him a defensive phenomenon by any means.
Not a phenomenon, but pretty good certainly; on the defensive spectrum, I think he's a rather good guy to have as your second best defensive player on a scoring line.

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04-08-2011, 04:02 PM
  #180
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He's no phenomenon but I do think between the two of them and Shanny's physicality that ends up being a top 10 first line defensively. Lower half of the top 10 but still solid.

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04-08-2011, 04:09 PM
  #181
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I'd like to see some evidence of Pete Green playing something other than his defensive system. I've read that his team used a dump but not chase system.

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04-08-2011, 04:16 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I'd like to see some evidence of Pete Green playing something other than his defensive system. I've read that his team used a dump but not chase system.
That sounds awesome.

Pete Green's super secret coaching strategy:

1. Dump the puck in
2. ???
3. Win games!

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04-08-2011, 04:22 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Ugh, sometimes hfboards makes me feel so old.
I'm 22, and that's information I should've known. It was hard not to hear anything of that Red Wings dynasty in the 90's/early 2000's, but I had no idea Stevie Y won a Selke.

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04-08-2011, 04:26 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I'd like to see some evidence of Pete Green playing something other than his defensive system. I've read that his team used a dump but not chase system.
Click my bio of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Bugg did a good mini profile of Green in ATD12, which suggested at versatility I think.
Essentially that's the bio I linked too, with a few quotes I added in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
That sounds awesome.

Pete Green's super secret coaching strategy:

1. Dump the puck in
2. ???
3. Win games!
Reminds me of South Park

1. Steal underpants! (I think that's what it was)
2. ???
3. Make Money!

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04-08-2011, 04:30 PM
  #185
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New Haven Nighthawks

Coach: Lindy Ruff

Billy Burch - Jean Ratelle - Rod Gilbert
Rick Martin - Ulf Nilsson - Claude Lemieux
Bob Gainey - Hamby Shore - Odie Cleghorn
Kelly Miller - Mike Fisher - Martin Lapointe
Moose Goheen, Serge Bernier

Doug Wilson - Alexei Kasatonov
Leo Boivin - Charlie Huddy
Reg Hamilton - Lyle Odelein
Roland Stoltz - Lasse Bjorn

Patrick Roy
Wilf Cude

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04-08-2011, 04:41 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post



Head Coach: Joel Quenneville
Assistant Coach: Marc Crawford

Roy Conacher-Syl Apps Sr.-Gordie Drillon
Keith Tkachuk-Dale Hawerchuk-Billy Boucher
Frank "Pud" Glass-Ernie Russell-Bruce Stuart
Wayne Merrick-Ryan Kesler-Ron Stewart

Spares: RW Billy Gilmour, W Bruce Ridpath

Denis Potvin-Ken Morrow
Hobey Baker-Dunc Munro
Sandis Ozolinsh-Al Arbour
D/F Walter Smaill

Dominik Hasek
Ryan Miller


PP1: Tkachuk-Hawerchuk-Boucher-Potvin-Ozolinsh
PP2: Conacher-Apps-Drillon-Baker-Munro

PK1: Kesler-Stewart-Arbour-Morrow
PK2: Merrick-Glass-Munro-Potvin
First Line

Apps is a good first line center, Conacher and Drillon are both passable as 1st liners, but I don't think this line exactly fits together. Apps is a good but not great playmaker. His wingers are both chiefly goal scorers, and I'm not sure how this line is going to work together. None of them provide a lot of grit/physicality, or defensive ability. They could struggle if they play against a physical unit. Apps and Drillon do have the added bonus of having played with each other in real life. A talented first line that will put up points, but is not very physical or good in its own zone.

Second Line

I think the second line blends together much better than the first. Each has a defined role. Hawerchuk is a very good 2nd line center, Tkachuk provides grit and goal scoring ability on the wing, and Boucher provides a little bit of everything. I like this line. They bring adequate amounts of everything, and should be okay in their own zone.

Third Line

I really don't know much about any of these guys to be honest. They all look like they had decent offensive upside while being decent in their own end. Looks like a decent, but not great 3rd line that will provide some offense.

Fourth Line

A sort of jack of all trades line, all 3 guys bring a good amount of intangibles to the table. They're all good defensively, but won't provide all that much in the offensive zone.

Forwards Overall

A pretty decent group. The first line is lacking in grit and defensive ability, the 2nd line is good, and the bottom 6 looks to be able to provide some offense while being good defensively.

1st Pairing

Potvin is one of the best defenseman of all time, and a very strong #1 in this draft. As others have said, Morrow is probably best suited for 2nd pairing duty, but being paired with Potvin, and considering the role that he's being put in, I think he will do fine. A good 1st pairing.

2nd Pairing

Really not a fan of this pairing. I don't see either guy as being anything close to a #3 defenseman. Baker is passable as a #4 if he's paired with the right guy, but I don't think Munro is that guy. Munro is a bottom pairing defenseman. This is going to be a pretty big weak point.

3rd Pairing

Classic contrast pairing. Ozolinsh rushes the puck and provides offense, while Arbour plays the role of defensive defenseman. This pairing works very well together. A good 3rd pairing.

Defense overall

I like the first and 3rd pairings. The 2nd pairing is a weak point that I think could be exposed against a team with two good scoring lines.

Goaltending

You have the best goalie of all time, which will really help to minimize some of the issues you have with your 2nd pairing and deficiency of two-way ability in your top 6.

PP

Why not have your 1st line be your 1st PP unit? They are clearly more talented than your 2nd line. Drillon was a very good player in front of the net, Apps can pass, and Conacher was a strong goal scorer. Also, Potvin and Ozolinsh are both capable of being 1st PP QBs, so I'd probably move Ozolinsh to the 2nd PP unit and put Baker on the first unit to spread the talent out. You're sort of wasting his talent having him next to Potvin, one of the greatest PP QBs of all time. It makes your 2nd PP much stronger without hurting your first too much. Pretty good PK units.

PK

First PK unit isn't all that impressive. Kesler has a good Selke record, and Stewart is decent, but not great. Merrick and Glass are average at best. Very average PK.

Coaching

Two pretty meh modern coaches. Will be near the lower end of the spectrum in terms of coaches in this.

Overall

A good amount of talent in the top 6, and a bottom 6 with a lot of intangibles. A good first pairing, but the 2nd pairing is very sub-par. This team will be able to score goals, but will struggle defending. Hasek can offset a lot of defensive problems, but can't do it all.

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Old
04-08-2011, 04:57 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
North Pole Penguinators

Head Coach: Bob Johnson
Assistant Coach: Barry Trotz

Captain: Lester Patrick
Assistants: Dirk Graham, Duke Keats

Cy Denneny - Duke Keats - Phil Watson
Baldy Northcott - Milan Novy - Vladimir Martinec
Joe Klukay - Craig MacTavish - Dirk Graham
Jaroslav Jirik - Tom Lysiak - Corb Denneny

Lester Patrick - Earl Seibert
Frank Patrick - Vasili Pervukhin
Terry Harper - Yuri Liapkin

Johnny Bower
Dave Kerr

PP1: Cy Denneny - Duke Keats - Phil Watson - Lester Patrick - Yuri Liapkin
PP2: Baldy Northcott/Jaroslav Jirik - Milan Novy - Vladimir Martinec - Frank Patrick - Yuri Liapkin

PP Spares: Corb Denneny, Tom Lysiak, Earl Seibert

PK1: Joe Klukay - Dirk Graham - Terry Harper - Earl Seibert
PK2: Baldy Northcott - Craig MacTavish - Lester Patrick - Vasili Pervukhin
PK3: Joe Klukay - Tom Lysiak - Terry Harper - Yuri Liapkin

PK Spares: Milan Novy, Vladimir Martinec, Phil Watson, Duke Keats, Jaroslav Jirik

General Spares: Fred Whitcroft, F/D; Weldy Young, D; Bobby Gould, F
I guess it's fitting I review the team that I've heard the most about in the draft (including my own )

Forwards
Top Line: I love Denneny of course. Keats and Watson compliment him well, and it's a rather tough line all in all. Though Denneny is a great top line LW, Keats and Watson are pretty poor as far as top line C and RW rankings go, I think. It's got the chemistry, but the skill level and over line there is likely lower-tier amongst top lines.

Second line: Great second line wingers; Martinec is amongst the best second line RW's and scorers in this, Northcott amongst the best second line glue guys in this. Novy is certainly less spectacular, but he's pretty solid and he's got the chemistry going with Martinec. Very good second line.

Third Line: Same story as the second line, only for a defensive shutdown line. Klukay and Graham are excellent amongst third line duos; Mactavish solid but less spectacular. Won't score, but that's alright.

Fourth line: Though I'm not as high on it as you, still a very nice fourth line that provides offense, defense, and toughness in ample amounts; very well constructed.

Overall: A poorer scoring line, but great depth with a good balance between offense, defense, and toughness to make a rather good forward core.

Defense
-Pretty good top pairing. Siebert is a pretty good #1, Patrick a pretty good #2. The two compliment eachother rather nicely.

-I'm higher on Frank than most, though he does seem lacklustre as #3, but he is legitimate. It's a solid pairing that does also work well.

-Really love this third pairing; I think you've got two great players for their roles, and they provide very good depth.

Overall: Pretty classic Offensive-defensive pairings that for ma rather good D-core all in all.

Goaltending, Coaching, Spares
-Bower is Bower; a very good goalie that can win you games. You did well in getting a backup like Kerr for him given Bower's platooning; Kerr is one of the better backups in the draft.

-A very nice coaching duo. Johnson is definitely above average and a good players coach that should work alright for your team. Trotz is a legitimate assistant.

-Pretty nice spares. I'd like a forward with more offensive pop, but you've got a great #7 and some very nice versatility in your forwards.

Special Teams
PP1: Fairly lacklustre. Denneny is great and provides a very good net prescence, but everyone else seems average or worse, though Liapkin is a very nice #2 PP D-man.
Why not swap Martinec and Watson, since Martinec is a much better offensive player?

PP2: You've got a very nice second unit here, of course; your pointmen look a lot better ,as do your forwards.

PK1: Your personnel on the first unit is excellent, but I've got one big concern: who's taking draws? Neither Klukay or Graham really played centre to my knowledge.

PK2: Pretty solid second PKing unit with some good personnel.

PK3: Excellent third unit, except for Liapkin, who should lilely be off it. Since Siebert is not getting PP time, I think you can afford to double-shift him on the PK.

Overall: A very good PK and a solid but pretty unspectacular PP.

Overall Team: Though it certainly lacks the top-end talent you would expect considering your trades, it's got some excellent depth and shines in most areas outside of top line and second pairing. Very well put together.

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04-08-2011, 05:34 PM
  #188
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Thanks for the review, LF! Some things I'd like to address:

I think Duke Keats, after everything I've found, should be considered an average to above average 1st line C, at least. The value I got with selecting him was superb, and you definitely should not consider his draft position when ranking him. Also, I'm curious how many guys you have ahead of Phil Watson at RW. I'm perfectly willing to accept that he's probably below average, but I'd like to know how far down.

I'm also curious who you have ranked ahead of Frank Patrick for defensemen. Keep in mind that for him to be a lower end #3, you'd have to have at least 100 guys ahead of him - were 100 defensemen even drafted by that point?

I also think that my first pairing is far more than what you branded as a "classic offensive-defensive" pair. Both guys are strong defensively, with Seibert being quite elite at that, and both guys provide significant offense, with Lester being elite at that for his role.

In terms of my spares, I don't really have any guys that (to my knowledge) spent any significant time injured. Graham qualifies, I guess, but that's why I have a guy like Gould. My team is also fairly flexible (Corb Denneny or Martinec can slot in on line 1 if Watson goes down, for example), so I'm not too worried about guys going down to begin with. I did go for a multi-positional guy like Whitcroft on purpose, though. I feel like he can slot in on the 4th line pretty well with other guys moving up as needed.

My PP1 wasn't meant to stand out. I built this team with balance in mind (I had to - I traded my first pick), so I feel like both my PP units are pretty much equally dangerous, and both play a different style of game, so they'll have other PK units guessing as to what's gonna happen. At least, that's the idea. However, if most people feel I'd be better served stacking the top unit, I can do that.

I think I read that Graham took faceoffs for Chicago's PK, and apparently overpass proved that somewhere. I've yet to see this though.

Liapkin PK'd for the Soviets in real life and apparently was very good at it, but I can switch for Seibert I guess.

Quote:
Overall Team: Though it certainly lacks the top-end talent you would expect considering your trades,
Interesting comment considering I traded my first pick.

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04-08-2011, 05:37 PM
  #189
TheDevilMadeMe
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Stastny and Bentley fall in the range of average first line centers. You really think Keats is in their class?

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04-08-2011, 05:37 PM
  #190
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Nuggets...

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Originally Posted by Modo View Post



Dawson City Nuggets


Coach: Herb Brooks
Assistant Coach: Vyacheslav Bykov
Captain: Gilbert Perreault
Assistant Captains: Michel Goulet, Cy Wentworth

Michel Goulet - Gilbert Perreault - Mike Bossy
Venjamin Alexandrov - Vladimir Shadrin - Dino Ciccarelli
Glen Skov - Metro Prystai - Jere Lehtinen
Dave "Tiger" Williams - Doru Tureanu - Allan "Scotty" Davidson
x - Steven Stamkos, Ray Ferraro

Frantisek Pospisil - Oldrich Machac
Clarence "Taffy" Abel - Cy Wentworth
Craig Ludwig - Darius Kasparaitis
x - Anton Volchenkov

Clint Benedict
Viktor Konovolenko


PP1: Goulet-Perreault-Bossy-Davidson-Machac

PP2: Alexandrov-Shadrin-Ciccarelli-Tureanu-Wentworth

PK1: Shadrin-Lehtinen-Pospisil-Abel

PK2: Prystai-Skov-Kasparaitis-Ludwig

- I see Gilbert Perreault as more of a dangler than a playmaker (which doesn't mean he cannot set up plays, it just means that dangling is his forte). However, that works quite well his his partners : Goulet never, ever, ever benefited from a gifted center as far as playmaking his concerned (not that Roenick couldn't set up plays, it's just that he didn't had the mindset of a playmker by any stretch); besides, Goulet's game wasn't exactly about waiting for passes. Perreault can certainly pass enough for Bossy. Both Bossy and Goulet weren't terrific danglers/puck controllers either, so it's a good thing to have a guy like Perreault with them. Goulet can certainly handle the defensive conscience role on that line, even if he'll score lots of goals as well. The fact he's the most physically-gifted player on that line is something of a concern, however. All in all : a perfect setup for Goulet, but he's supposed to be the 3rd guy on that line.

- Shadrin fits well and is a 2nd C in this draft. Ciccarelli is overrated, but there's no problem to have him on the 2nd line, and just works well with Shadrin -- think Yakushev, 5 inches smaller.Alexandrov would probably work well with that line : this said, Shadrin might have to concentrate more on defense than he'd like to with such linemates. Not that he can't do it.

- Skov, Prystai and Lehtinen's offensive output might be something around the range of "bad" to "dismal", with the best offensive player being arguably Lehtinen, a guy who was never really better than 3rd offensively on his line. Prystai certainly has some skills to set up plays, but relying to Lehtinen to finish them is... iffy. Skov is a pure defensive specialist AFAIC. Not that it's bad. Won't cost goals, and your top-6 will certainly score (especially your 1st line), but using them for anything else than checking might be a waste of time.

- I don't know what to do of your 4th line. Offensively, it seems brutally unbalanced toward goalscoring, but one could say that Williams will dig out pucks regardless of whom he plays with, that Toreanu would have been more of a playmaker if he experienced playing with decent players and I can hardly analyze Scotty Davidson's playmaking/scoring bias by one season -- even if his ratio screams more "playmaking" than anything else. Fluke or not? (no one denies his skill level, but I'm not sure he's main playmaking material -- even on a 4th line, which is actually way below his skill level, but alas not results level). Your guys all belong on the 4th : just not sure they belong together. This said, somebody might have better guidance than I do about Davidson.

- Stamkos is a perfect recent player to be a sub : not enough great seasons for a regular spot, but is certainly a credible option to bring some offense here and there. Ferraro is probably good enough to be in this thing, but I sincerely wonder what role could he fill on your team, except Toreanu's one. (considering Stamkos would fill the shoes of the guys on the top-6...).

All in all : Two good (especially the first) lines that will gel, a unidimensionnal 3rd and a ragtag group on whom opinion might vary greatly on the 4th.

- Congrats on your first pair. Machac doesn't really belong there, and I'm not certain Pops is 1st-D material, but they certainly are a better-than-its-sum pairing.

- Congrats as well on your second line. As far as defense is concerned, they fit each other perfectly. The brute and the skilled. Maybe one of the best lead-protecting pair of draft, and I'm damn serious about it. Wentworth can move the puck too, even if he shouldn't be considered an offensive D-Men by any stretch.

- The third isn't bad : both Ludwig and Kasparaitis belong in this draft as 3rd pair guys, and both will be pretty effective at shutting down opponents, or actually injuring them. They can work well as a safe, lead-protecting pair. But here's my gripe : you ALREADY have a such a pairing with Wentworth and Abel. Besides, both of them do not even qualify as "below average" offensively. Again, it wouldn't be that much of a problem... on another team. It's not a bad pairing : I just can't see the point of it, considering your defense. Dreakmur as Hy Buller not playing PP minutes, so I think you guys should have a date.

- Switching any of the with your 7th D-Men will lead you nowhere, 'cause Volchenkov isn't any better offensively than those guys. Actually, Ludwig and Kasaparaitis probably had a baby at some point...

All in all : Acceptable first, great 2nd, good (at what it is), but somewhat irrelevant 3rd considering 2nd.

- Goalies = solid. Really.

- PP has to work in a 1-1-3 (or 3-1-1 if we're going the other way around...) system to work (that's what your lineup tells me...), and I'm not sure this is an adequate system considering the teams you face in an ATD. Forwards on the 1st wave are obviously terrific, and 2nd wave isn't shoddy either.

- Splitting Wentworth and Abel is a crime, and it's not like Wentworth will be overworked if he plays 2nd-2nd-2nd. But I Pops needs to be there as well. Solution? I'll look toward Kasparaitis. Not sure Ludwig can play 1st PK waves, but there've been much more absurd solutions than this one. Shadrin isn't exactly overworked at 2nd-2nd-2nd, but F icetime isn't like D icetime. Skov and Prystai are where they belong.

Overall : Top-heavy offense, defense is all about defense and goalies will... goal. Expect low-to-average scoring games with the first liners getting 60% of the goals, and the top-6 getting roughly 90%.


Last edited by MXD: 04-08-2011 at 06:06 PM.
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04-08-2011, 05:39 PM
  #191
TheDevilMadeMe
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And yea, liapkin may be a competent pker but he's not close to seibert.

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04-08-2011, 05:42 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Stastny and Bentley fall in the range of average first line centers. You really think Keats is in their class?
I don't see why Duke Keats isn't at least as good as Bentley.

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04-08-2011, 05:42 PM
  #193
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Also, I'm curious how many guys you have ahead of Phil Watson at RW. I'm perfectly willing to accept that he's probably below average, but I'd like to know how far down.
He's probably the worst 1st-line RW in this draft. He's better than some players at this spot, but Watson shouldn't see Top-6 minutes at wing under any circumstances. He's a perfectly fine 2nd C (who obviously needs the right players to work well : put him with Bert Olmstead and Dean Prentice and you have a waste of a 2nd line).
And that's coming from the first guy to draft Watson to play top-6 minutes.

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04-08-2011, 05:45 PM
  #194
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
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I don't see why Duke Keats isn't at least as good as Bentley.
Oh dear.

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04-08-2011, 05:47 PM
  #195
Leafs Forever
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I think Duke Keats, after everything I've found, should be considered an average to above average 1st line C, at least. The value I got with selecting him was superb, and you definitely should not consider his draft position when ranking him. Also, I'm curious how many guys you have ahead of Phil Watson at RW. I'm perfectly willing to accept that he's probably below average, but I'd like to know how far down.
You think Keats is a top-20 centre of all-time? Let's see (no particular order):

Gretzky
Lemieux
Beliveau
Morenz
Lalonde
Taylor
Messier
Clarke
Trottier
Esposito
Sakic
Yzerman
Schmidt
Boucher
Apps
Nighbor
Bentley
H. Richard
Dionne
Forsberg

and there's plenty more where that came from. Top line centre's, because C's such a deep position, have to be held to a much higher standard than any other position really; and Keats doesn't look well by this standard. Watson was drafted around the 45-50ish range for RW's, so pretty down there.

For F.Patrick-I suppose he's probably going to fall around the average range of #3s or higher; I've never actually mapped it much.

Though your team may not be injury prone, injuries happen; you have decent versatility, but regardless, having a legitimate scoring line guy that can move up from a spare spot is good.

Well, just make sure you make a good note of the kind of PP thing you're going for here. I'm not sure of it myself, but I guess it can work since you've don't got that higher end talent. But that means your PP's should get similar ice-time, instead of the usual PP1 soaking up much more, and thus should be noted.

I thought Graham might have; something you should also likely mention in a roster post or include in a linked bio for Graham.

This is why I like linked bios but ye, Siebert is a better choice and should be able to handle it.

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04-08-2011, 05:48 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Oh dear.
Whatever edge Bentley has offensively should be made up for in Keats' toughness and defensive ability.. if an edge offensively even exists.

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04-08-2011, 05:50 PM
  #197
jarek
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Originally Posted by Leafs Forever View Post
You think Keats is a top-20 centre of all-time? Let's see (no particular order):

Gretzky
Lemieux
Beliveau
Morenz
Lalonde
Taylor
Messier
Clarke
Trottier
Esposito
Sakic
Yzerman
Schmidt
Boucher
Apps
Nighbor
Bentley
H. Richard
Dionne
Forsberg

and there's plenty more where that came from. Top line centre's, because C's such a deep position, have to be held to a much higher standard than any other position really; and Keats doesn't look well by this standard. Watson was drafted around the 45-50ish range for RW's, so pretty down there.

For F.Patrick-I suppose he's probably going to fall around the average range of #3s or higher; I've never actually mapped it much.

Though your team may not be injury prone, injuries happen; you have decent versatility, but regardless, having a legitimate scoring line guy that can move up from a spare spot is good.

Well, just make sure you make a good note of the kind of PP thing you're going for here. I'm not sure of it myself, but I guess it can work since you've don't got that higher end talent. But that means your PP's should get similar ice-time, instead of the usual PP1 soaking up much more, and thus should be noted.

I thought Graham might have; something you should also likely mention in a roster post or include in a linked bio for Graham.

This is why I like linked bios but ye, Siebert is a better choice and should be able to handle it.
Looking at the C's that way, it makes sense. Regardless, he shouldn't fall very much below Forsberg. I definitely think he should be top-30.

Also, I spent a long time earlier showing that teams do not, in fact, use their 1st PP units for as long as you might think. Did you miss that? Most teams go about 60-40 in terms of ice time on their PP units.

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Old
04-08-2011, 05:51 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
He's probably the worst 1st-line RW in this draft. He's better than some players at this spot, but Watson shouldn't see Top-6 minutes at wing under any circumstances. He's a perfectly fine 2nd C (who obviously needs the right players to work well : put him with Bert Olmstead and Dean Prentice and you have a waste of a 2nd line).
And that's coming from the first guy to draft Watson to play top-6 minutes.
I'd probably reserve that judgment until you look at some other 1st line RWs.

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04-08-2011, 05:56 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Looking at the C's that way, it makes sense. Regardless, he shouldn't fall very much below Forsberg. I definitely think he should be top-30.

Also, I spent a long time earlier showing that teams do not, in fact, use their 1st PP units for as long as you might think. Did you miss that? Most teams go about 60-40 in terms of ice time on their PP units.
You've got more selling to do for most people to believe that, I think. Keats brought some good intangibles, but did he really differentiate himself from some of the other western centre's of the time well enough offensively to get counted that high?

I must have.

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04-08-2011, 05:57 PM
  #200
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You know, BW, i really like your team. But overselling your guys to the point where everyone Lols or facepalms probably isn't the way to win this thing. Keats was great value where you drafted him, but he is no Bentley or Forsberg.

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