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Elitserien stars going to KHL

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04-09-2011, 07:46 AM
  #1
Peter25
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Elitserien stars going to KHL

During the last few days at least four elite Elitserien players have moved to KHL: Martin Thörnberg, Juuso Hietanen, Patrik Zackrisson and Teemu Laine. Others such as Pasi Puistola and Riku Hahl are also rumoured to be moving to KHL.

How do you think they will do in the KHL?

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04-09-2011, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
During the last few days at least four elite Elitserien players have moved to KHL: Martin Thörnberg, Juuso Hietanen, Patrik Zackrisson and Teemu Laine. Others such as Pasi Puistola and Riku Hahl are also rumoured to be moving to KHL.

How do you think they will do in the KHL?
Martin Thörnberg, Juuso Hietanen - both to Torpedo
Patrik Zackrisson and Teemu Laine - rumours Atlant/Minsk

Martin Thörnberg, Juuso Hietanen, Teemu Laine - all from HV 71


Last edited by vorky: 04-09-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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04-09-2011, 02:36 PM
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Thörnberg should do great. A speedy, grinding sniper that can pass the puck, as well as playing both ways.

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04-20-2011, 10:41 AM
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Swedes need to join KHL, it will happen sooner or later anyway.

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04-21-2011, 11:41 PM
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Yeah, I agree. Everyone wants to get paid more.
or....
position themselves to get paid more.
KHL does that for Swedes aspiring to make the NHL
or just looking to play in a better league, and earn a higher salary.
Also, not all Europeans can adapt to NA style and the KHL is the best league
playing a game they are already accustomed to.

Every year the KHL gets better and more respectable.
Thus, they get more worldwide publicity and acknowledgment.
If in 2008 people thought the KHL was a project that would fail,
in 2011 there is no debate on wether or not the KHL is here to stay.
The level is rising, the rules are being implemented, international coaches and referees are being hired, and the effects are clear.
In 2 years there will be a hard capped salary, with around
$35million cap, and a floor of $17.5million!! 17m is far more than the top clubs of the next
best leagues in Europe.
Heck, if it comes down to it what's the point of developing in the AHL, when you can play in a
better league, get paid more, and develop at the same time- especially for Europeans

To put it into perspective, at least 4 teams in KHL will have maxed salary cap.
and NY Islanders have a current budget of $45.541mil
45.5 is not that far off 35(CKA this year probably spent more than 35)
compare that to $10million AHL salary cap
or the fact that all SEL teams operate under $10million
and you have a clear alternative of where to go if not making the NHL roster right away.

17million minimum cap in KHL will be higher than everything except NHL
so:
We will take best players from AHL, SEL, SM-LIIGA, NLA, and everything else possible including players from the NHL that will be paid more than they are.
In return, we will be more competitive. Add to that the reconstruction in the development for Russian Hockey, and things get quite interesting.

***the 17million salary bottom I mention is something im not 100% about. It might be something like 10.7 or 15.7 or something along those lines, i dont remember. Regardless, that does not change anything in my post as it is greater than 10, and since that is also the minimum.

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04-22-2011, 01:44 AM
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I don't know how they do it. I understand the individual wealth aspect, but the source of that wealth is just not ethical. I had always hoped that a scandinavian, and not russian, based league could serve as the platform for a continental european league...

to Yunost, the KHL is not getting more respected, only perhaps in putins media. The conduct of the leagues governors, the players union, and the owners are blatantly shameful. The leagues finances could not be more of an injustice and a sham. There is nothing capitalist about the KHL.

CKA's payroll is funneled from gazproms profits, through accounting irregularities, which is violently illegal and unethical since that is supposed to be strict subject to government regulation and oversight, since it is a public corporation which is supposed to act in the best interest of Russian citizens. Instead they funnel it to some millionaire hockey players accounts while education, infrastructure and health are critically in need of capital.

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04-22-2011, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
I don't know how they do it. I understand the individual wealth aspect, but the source of that wealth is just not ethical. I had always hoped that a scandinavian, and not russian, based league could serve as the platform for a continental european league...

CKA's payroll is funneled from gazproms profits, through accounting irregularities, which is violently illegal and unethical since that is supposed to be strict subject to government regulation and oversight, since it is a public corporation which is supposed to act in the best interest of Russian citizens. Instead they funnel it to some millionaire hockey players accounts while education, infrastructure and health are critically in need of capital.
Im glad you have concern for Russia as a country, but I dont think that this is the place to discuss socio-economic and political issues. I think that everyone is aware that problems relating to corruption exist, but I don't see how it is necessary for you to bring up things like Yukos and Putin every time and in all threads of the KHL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post

to Yunost, the KHL is not getting more respected, only perhaps in putins media. The conduct of the leagues governors, the players union, and the owners are blatantly shameful. The leagues finances could not be more of an injustice and a sham. There is nothing capitalist about the KHL.
I am from North America, and refer to western media. In the 1st year of the KHL when there was virtually nothing written about it. Now, it is visibly different. Local newspapers mention it. NYT publishes articles about it, Yahoo's Puck Daddy NHL blog has articles, and even the hockey news, a paper very much against Russia hockey covered the final series of the play-offs. The Toronto star published a 3-part story on the KHL. You should know that the star is probably the most popular paper in Canada. Of-cource the messages are not always positive, but nobody bashes the KHL like you and the fact that the league gets attention in the press means alot.

Respect is a rather debatable thing, so it is pointless to argue about. I'm not sure though, that the NHL commissioner and the owner of an NHL franchise would meet with KHL executives at an NHL game the way they did in washington if they didnt respect, or believe that the KHL was run in a way that does not adhere to high standards.

Im not sure if the NHL would send teams to Russia if they believed that the owners of the clubs were all mobsters and the salaries were scammed money.

The league in itself is very well run, and modern. It is not unlike the NHL-or at least it tries to emulate much of NHL's success. That is respectable.

If the KHL was not respected, im not sure if 5 NHL teams would agree to tour Russia. (cancelled because the NHL wanted too much, but the intent was all there)

With a few exceptions(that you will be quick to point out), the internationals have good things to say about Russia and the hockey clubs. There are many Canadians and Europeans in the KHL and many have had multiple year contracts. Omark, for example, had good things to say before moving on to Edmonton. In an interview with a Canadian goalie, Garnett had good things to say about Russia and is still playing there.

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04-22-2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViD View Post
Swedes need to join KHL, it will happen sooner or later anyway.
never gonna happen, they have a very good system of their own.

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04-22-2011, 07:15 AM
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Judging from how Martin Thörnberg did in yesterdays game against a good russian national team, I think he has a chance to do very well in KHL. Staffan Kronwall is hardly my favourite player, but I guess he will do ok. Are there some players that's travelling in opposite direction? I wouldn't mind adding Daniel Tjärnqvist or Timmy Pettersson to Djurgårdens roster. Who else might end up in KHL? Dick Axelsson (if Detroit doesn't work out) and Patrik Zackrisson perhaps?

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04-22-2011, 07:36 AM
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IMO Emil Lundberg will be at Lev´s roster, at least in pre-season camp .. but it is another story, sorry for OT, but he is Swede

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04-22-2011, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerupmurray View Post
Judging from how Martin Thörnberg did in yesterdays game against a good russian national team, I think he has a chance to do very well in KHL. Staffan Kronwall is hardly my favourite player, but I guess he will do ok. Are there some players that's travelling in opposite direction? I wouldn't mind adding Daniel Tjärnqvist or Timmy Pettersson to Djurgårdens roster. Who else might end up in KHL? Dick Axelsson (if Detroit doesn't work out) and Patrik Zackrisson perhaps?
Kronwall is going to a middle of the pack team at best, hasn't Zackrinsson signed already in the KHL? or am I confusing things?

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04-22-2011, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ViD View Post
Swedes need to join KHL, it will happen sooner or later anyway.
Add to that a few Finns, a few Czechs and a few Slovaks (with Lev Poprad now in the game) and, as the KHL gets better, the Russian teams will have to compete to get the best non-Russians, like, say, Thörnberg.

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04-22-2011, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by yunost View Post
Im glad you have concern for Russia as a country, but I dont think that this is the place to discuss socio-economic and political issues. I think that everyone is aware that problems relating to corruption exist, but I don't see how it is necessary for you to bring up things like Yukos and Putin every time and in all threads of the KHL.




I am from North America, and refer to western media. In the 1st year of the KHL when there was virtually nothing written about it. Now, it is visibly different. Local newspapers mention it. NYT publishes articles about it, Yahoo's Puck Daddy NHL blog has articles, and even the hockey news, a paper very much against Russia hockey covered the final series of the play-offs. The Toronto star published a 3-part story on the KHL. You should know that the star is probably the most popular paper in Canada. Of-cource the messages are not always positive, but nobody bashes the KHL like you and the fact that the league gets attention in the press means alot.

Respect is a rather debatable thing, so it is pointless to argue about. I'm not sure though, that the NHL commissioner and the owner of an NHL franchise would meet with KHL executives at an NHL game the way they did in washington if they didnt respect, or believe that the KHL was run in a way that does not adhere to high standards.

Im not sure if the NHL would send teams to Russia if they believed that the owners of the clubs were all mobsters and the salaries were scammed money.

The league in itself is very well run, and modern. It is not unlike the NHL-or at least it tries to emulate much of NHL's success. That is respectable.

If the KHL was not respected, im not sure if 5 NHL teams would agree to tour Russia. (cancelled because the NHL wanted too much, but the intent was all there)

With a few exceptions(that you will be quick to point out), the internationals have good things to say about Russia and the hockey clubs. There are many Canadians and Europeans in the KHL and many have had multiple year contracts. Omark, for example, had good things to say before moving on to Edmonton. In an interview with a Canadian goalie, Garnett had good things to say about Russia and is still playing there.
Yes I agree there has been tremendous improvements since the superleague of the 90's, but that does not mean that there isn't a long way to go.

The NHL doesn't care about politics. Neither does the IIHF. that's why Belarus and North Korea are full members.

I disagree that the league is well run and modern. the players union is a farce, and management of various teams are up to their old tricks just like the old days, with cases like bell and bulik.

coverage is one thing, respect is another. sadly north americans view the KHL like a giant feeder system for their clubs. In fact most people think of it like the european wing of the AHL. its a complete disgrace since the KHL is actually very good and competitive on the ice. I have always held that since europe looses out on transfer fees they deserve, european stars should stay in europe until they are 30+ veterans, or not come over to NA at all. Frankly NA treats the european hockey community like ****. its very sad...

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04-26-2011, 02:44 PM
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Jonas Junland from Färjestad to Barys.

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04-26-2011, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
I don't know how they do it. I understand the individual wealth aspect, but the source of that wealth is just not ethical. I had always hoped that a scandinavian, and not russian, based league could serve as the platform for a continental european league...

to Yunost, the KHL is not getting more respected, only perhaps in putins media. The conduct of the leagues governors, the players union, and the owners are blatantly shameful. The leagues finances could not be more of an injustice and a sham. There is nothing capitalist about the KHL.

CKA's payroll is funneled from gazproms profits, through accounting irregularities, which is violently illegal and unethical since that is supposed to be strict subject to government regulation and oversight, since it is a public corporation which is supposed to act in the best interest of Russian citizens. Instead they funnel it to some millionaire hockey players accounts while education, infrastructure and health are critically in need of capital.
I suppose you would prefer people like Khodorkovsky to lead Russia. Then we would be sure that a project like KHL would never happen. Why? Because all the oil and gas money would flow to private pockets and out of Russia. At least the KHL is in Russia!

The KHL is surely an expensive project and you have a point there that this money could be spent with more ethical way, but since I know that you don't like Russia much I find your criticism bad-willed, not good-willed. The KHL might be expensive for Russia but at least it gives a boost to national morale and Russian self confidence, and imroves the sport of hockey in Russia.

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04-27-2011, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cheerupmurray View Post
Who else might end up in KHL? Dick Axelsson (if Detroit doesn't work out) and Patrik Zackrisson perhaps?


Rickard Wallin
Joakim Lindstrom

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04-27-2011, 08:46 AM
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I think Lindsrom refused, he was too lonely in Novgorod to play good hockey.

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04-27-2011, 09:22 AM
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I think Lindsrom refused, he was too lonely in Novgorod to play good hockey.
Yes, I think Tractor made Lindström an offer but he refused. Maybe he will come if Tractor can lure another Swede or two with him? I understand that Tractor will have more money next season than it did this season.

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04-27-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
I don't know how they do it. I understand the individual wealth aspect, but the source of that wealth is just not ethical. I had always hoped that a scandinavian, and not russian, based league could serve as the platform for a continental european league...

to Yunost, the KHL is not getting more respected, only perhaps in putins media. The conduct of the leagues governors, the players union, and the owners are blatantly shameful. The leagues finances could not be more of an injustice and a sham. There is nothing capitalist about the KHL.

CKA's payroll is funneled from gazproms profits, through accounting irregularities, which is violently illegal and unethical since that is supposed to be strict subject to government regulation and oversight, since it is a public corporation which is supposed to act in the best interest of Russian citizens. Instead they funnel it to some millionaire hockey players accounts while education, infrastructure and health are critically in need of capital.
Lol man, stop this political bullcrap. US/NATO war in Iraq has already killed more people than Saddam did. To just get cheaper oil. And cheaper oil helps USA and Canada to rebuild economy, so it helps NHL as well... And it's more ethical for sure... So let's not talk about politics, but hockey...

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04-27-2011, 10:57 AM
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Lol man, stop this political bullcrap. US/NATO war in Iraq has already killed more people than Saddam did. To just get cheaper oil. And cheaper oil helps USA and Canada to rebuild economy, so it helps NHL as well... And it's more ethical for sure... So let's not talk about politics, but hockey...
err.. I don't think you understand the difference between directly connected, and indirectly related...

I'm sure there are many players who have felt guilty taking money from the citizens of Russia, who desperately need help. If they haven't, it is because they are not well informed. Empathy is a recognized natural human trait.

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04-27-2011, 11:14 AM
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I suppose you would prefer people like Khodorkovsky to lead Russia. Then we would be sure that a project like KHL would never happen. Why? Because all the oil and gas money would flow to private pockets and out of Russia. At least the KHL is in Russia!

The KHL is surely an expensive project and you have a point there that this money could be spent with more ethical way, but since I know that you don't like Russia much I find your criticism bad-willed, not good-willed. The KHL might be expensive for Russia but at least it gives a boost to national morale and Russian self confidence, and imroves the sport of hockey in Russia.
once again pyotr, it saddens me that you associate criticism with dislike.

Your explanation is weak and shameless. what would improve national moral is education, health, and infrastructure spending. Not some manipulatory feel-good device, which can only be an insult to the many russians who know that far from being a healthy and thriving democratic capitalist state, their country has left them.

But I believe that with good men of integrity the KHL can straighten itself out even amidst the russian political-economic climate. perhaps then it can be a morale booster both as a successful league, and as a successful capitalist rule abiding organization.

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04-27-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
once again pyotr, it saddens me that you associate criticism with dislike.
.
I know you are a Russian hating Pole who lives in North America.


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Your explanation is weak and shameless. what would improve national moral is education, health, and infrastructure spending.
Russia has spent more money on these issues in the Putin period compared to Yeltsin period, when the whole system collapsed (or was let to collapse).

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Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
Not some manipulatory feel-good device, which can only be an insult to the many russians who know that far from being a healthy and thriving democratic capitalist state, their country has left them.
Do you know what Russians think of the KHL? Are people in Kazan and Ufa bitter because their local teams are very competitive? Nope. The population generally supports sports and a good product on the ice is good for the whole city. Prestige can be important in many ways.

Of course there are many people in Russia who do not like the KHL. There will always be an opposition in projects like this. But you should remember that many of the wealthy oligarchs are using their own money to run these teams. Magnitogorsk for example is entirely financed by Viktor Rastnikov, a private oligarch. This is the way he chooses to spend his money and the people of Magnitogorsk can watch good hockey.

We are really talking peanuts here. The value of KHL is less than $1 billion. It is not a great deal of money in Russia really. With $1 billion you can do a lot of good things, but it is still peanuts in a country of size of Russia. Russia has $500 billion in it's reserve fund. It is not like Russia is using all of it's money on the KHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiesIrae View Post
But I believe that with good men of integrity the KHL can straighten itself out even amidst the russian political-economic climate. perhaps then it can be a morale booster both as a successful league, and as a successful capitalist rule abiding organization.
The KHL is already a morale booster and the backbone where the Russian hockey is built. In order to make the KHL the best league in Europe the KHL needs financial help from oligarchs and local administrations.

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04-27-2011, 03:56 PM
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Guys, it's the same troll every time. He doesn't want to have a real conversation. He is a Russia "expert" who knows better then the people who live/lived in USSR/Russia. Just ignore him.

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04-27-2011, 06:40 PM
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Guys, it's the same troll every time. He doesn't want to have a real conversation. He is a Russia "expert" who knows better then the people who live/lived in USSR/Russia. Just ignore him.
If you read that thread I admitted I trolled it, and apologized. I am not an expert of Russia, and don't claim to be. Never been there or taken a course about the place. But, if you can't move on and look at real issues, then I feel bad for you.

and actually if you read that thread you'll see my main points were conceded. Russia does have a serious problem with the rule of law, human rights, absence of diversification of the economy, and corruption. Are you going to deny any of these, and call it trolling?

also living in the ussr/russia does not automatically make you an expert.

and in this thread, Yunost and pyotr somewhat accepted the points I made. I want to bring perspectives which you are not told by the media. I am not trolling, I have legitimate concerns which even pyotr partially admitted were correct. The KHL is neither a capitalist, nor a fair, nor an ethical organization.

if you refuse to critically analyze Russia and the KHL, at least open your eyes around you to the obvious. many people need help in Russia. make sure you donate to charities in Russia. also why not support local hockey programs? Even sending some used skates would mean a lot to some kids.


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04-27-2011, 07:00 PM
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I know you are a Russian hating Pole who lives in North America.
wrong. no need to resort to personal insults. I am not a hateful person.

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Russia has spent more money on these issues in the Putin period compared to Yeltsin period, when the whole system collapsed (or was let to collapse).
still not nearly good enough. you know that.

Quote:
Do you know what Russians think of the KHL? Are people in Kazan and Ufa bitter because their local teams are very competitive? Nope. The population generally supports sports and a good product on the ice is good for the whole city. Prestige can be important in many ways.
agreed. it's important to give communities a sense of pride. but that doesn't mean it can't be done in a capitalist and ethical fashion. they exist in Switzerland, Sweden, NA, etc...

Quote:
Of course there are many people in Russia who do not like the KHL. There will always be an opposition in projects like this. But you should remember that many of the wealthy oligarchs are using their own money to run these teams. Magnitogorsk for example is entirely financed by Viktor Rastnikov, a private oligarch. This is the way he chooses to spend his money and the people of Magnitogorsk can watch good hockey.
yes but it can be guaranteed that their acquisition of wealth was not democratic or capitalist. nothing was in Russia in the 90's.

Quote:
We are really talking peanuts here. The value of KHL is less than $1 billion. It is not a great deal of money in Russia really. With $1 billion you can do a lot of good things, but it is still peanuts in a country of size of Russia. Russia has $500 billion in it's reserve fund. It is not like Russia is using all of it's money on the KHL.
good points. I never claimed that the KHL was a massive problem, but it's not unnoticeable. above all else I feel that they shouldn't poach foreign players and give them ungodly amounts of money just for the owners egos and pleasure. keep it a russian/latvian/belarussian/kazhak league. at least then the money will stay there.

Quote:
The KHL is already a morale booster and the backbone where the Russian hockey is built. In order to make the KHL the best league in Europe the KHL needs financial help from oligarchs and local administrations.
yes but my point was it could be a source of even more pride if was both a great league on the ice (which it already is), AND a capitalist, ethical and rule abiding league.

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