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If the wings are one and done, do you think one of our mid core pieces gets moved?

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Old
03-30-2011, 09:34 PM
  #1
Jussha
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If the wings are one and done, do you think one of our mid core pieces gets moved?

Lets be serious here, if the wings do lose this year in the first round, although I understand we can't win every year, at the same time Holland might think maybe its time to have a small shake up by moving one of his mid core pieces.

While we like to think we can keep keeping this team together, eventually moves need to be made.

After winning back to back cups, and then not getting anywhere in 3 years, we let go of Osgood, traded a good player and fan favorite for many in Kozlov for Hasek, and signed Hull and Robitaille.

If we do lose in the first round this year, does Holland think one of the mid core pieces needs to go? I say mid core because I really don't think he will move any of the actual core, who I deem as

Forwards
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Franzen

Defense
Lidstrom (if he comes back)
Rafalski (no trade clause)

The pieces that could be moved

Forwards
Cleary
Filppula
Hudler
Helm

Defense
Kronwall
Stuart

Of those players, the ones who seem like they could bring in a significant player are either Filppula or Kronwall. As much as I love Flip and support him here, if Holland was bringing in a player that I thought was better, even if the salary was higher, I would support the move. With Kronner, if Holland does plan on spending Lidstrom and Rafalski's cap space in 2012 to bring in 2 big name D-men, I think Stuart would be the better choice to keep because I think we can maybe resign him cheaper than his previous contract, whereas Kronwall most definitely, if not from us, will get a significant raise from someone else. I also think Holland will use the Lid and Raf cap space on puck movers, and if Smith is ready, we will have lots of puck movers it seems, and could use a more defensive dman in stuart still. Plus, like already mentioned, I think Kronwall will bring the better return.

If Lidstrom re-signs though, does Holland not move anyone and think this team is good enough with just maybe a few free agent signings to still get a shot at the cup. I think Holland thinks that as long as Lidstrom is there the team has a legitimate chance, so he might just want to try to improve the team with free agent signings, or maybe even just putting some faith in youth and seeing Mursak, Emmerton, and Tatar all on the team next year.

One move I wish Holland would explore would be packaging our 1st round pick and Hudler to try and get a better 1st round pick in the top 15 range. Detroit could use one of those moving forward, even though it seems they dont draft great in the 1st round.

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03-30-2011, 09:42 PM
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vladdy16
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For the record/as a point of reference... this thread was created on the night of the wings/blues blowout... please let this thread sink into obscurity before the playoffs actually start.

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03-30-2011, 09:46 PM
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However, I do think something needs to be done to strengthen our defense from both the forwards and D-men.

Whether that comes from free agency, a trade or firing McCrimmon.

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03-30-2011, 09:48 PM
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Jussha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladdy16 View Post
For the record/as a point of reference... this thread was created on the night of the wings/blues blowout... please let this thread sink into obscurity before the playoffs actually start.
lol i actually was thinking about this for a while, but I guess with the blowout it made it easier to type out and post

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03-30-2011, 09:49 PM
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There's probably a decent chance Brendan Smith will come up next year.

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Old
03-30-2011, 10:01 PM
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I've said it since mid-season...this team is slow, stale and most glaring of all below average on the back end. It's uncanny how similar this season and the '00-'01 season are. You just knew the run was over with that core and change was needed. The difference is Detroit actually got older in '02...they need to do the complete opposite this offseason and get faster and younger. They need fresh faces and fresh legs up front...along with at least 2 solid and dependable defensive d-men.

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03-30-2011, 10:03 PM
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TheMoreYouKnow
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Ah I think you gotta make a move. A first round exit would be black on white what people have been whispering for a while, this team's declining..

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03-30-2011, 10:05 PM
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Depends completely on Lidstrom. If he retires, there will be plenty of change. If not, his contract will dictate a lot.

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03-30-2011, 10:22 PM
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If Lidstrom stays: Probably the status quo. Maybe Hudler gets moved, although i would support moving Flip + for a real top 6 winger

If Lidstrom goes: Things get interesting. But even if he goes, making a move ain't that easy. Hudler? Who wants him? Cleary? Is he going to bring much?

I see the major turnover coming the year after next, when Homer/Bert go off into the sunset.

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03-30-2011, 10:25 PM
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Definitely have to look at trading Filppula. He's actually worth something to other teams and might bring back a return that's a better fit for what the Wings need.

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03-30-2011, 10:30 PM
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Rafalski could retire for all I care. I'd be glad to be rid of the contract. He's still got value offensively but he's often plain offensive on defense.

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03-30-2011, 10:32 PM
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If they don't do something with the defense, we may as well write off next year.

They are in the bottom 5 for GA in the West, it's pathetic.

I really don't know who is out there, but Ericsson isn't worth it to me, and Salei should be gone. Kindl looks good, get a really solid defensive guy, only play Rafalski on the PP and sparingly at ES. I'm not really sure where Kronwall is at.

I really, really wish they could get rid of Franzen. I love the guy from the last 2 playoffs(he didn't really do much last year despite 18 points in 12 games), but he's useless when he doesn't put the puck in the net, and you can't even say he's a lock for 30 goals.

Filppula is meh. Not going to develop any more, can't score, but all around good. Maybe think about trading him.

Get Zetterberg something, because his effort level is sad lately.

But hopefully they all pull it together somehow and start magically playing great in the playoffs, but they are 5 games away, and looks like they are getting worse. This isn't the team from 08, and before, and I don't think they are going to do anything.

Regardless of the outcome though(they aren't winning the Cup so...) I'd rather see the Wings go back to a solid defensive team first.

I don't know, some tinkering is needed if they win a few rounds, and if they **** the bed like they are now, a bit more drastic changes should be considered, but nothing groundbreaking. Just bringing in the right people, getting some people out the door.

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03-30-2011, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
Definitely have to look at trading Filppula. He's actually worth something to other teams and might bring back a return that's a better fit for what the Wings need.
What is it the Wings need exactly that Flip doesn't bring?

For $3 mil. mind you.

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03-30-2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forty View Post
Get Zetterberg something, because his effort level is sad lately..
Bit harsh, Z has had 6 goals in the last 8 games. He's not playing his best hockey for sure but with Datsyuk out he's the only star caliber forward on the ice for Detroit and that's a difficult spot to be in.

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03-30-2011, 10:36 PM
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People are probably going to disagree with this one, but I think they need to look at possibly replacing Babcock. He's a great coach, maybe he's hit a brick wall with some of the veterans. I know that if I kept hearing the same thing over and over I'd check out mentally eventually.

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03-30-2011, 10:38 PM
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On the subject of defense, how do you see the issue? Seems to me it's a four things coming together at once.
1) Team speed is slow again, and declining
2) Puck possession isn't as good as it used to be, meaning we spend less time in their end and more time on defense.
3) Homer, Bert and Hudler playing a regular shift is a lot of defensive liability to cover for
4) Lack of physicality in their own end. Just too easy to play against for a team willing to battle.

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03-30-2011, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wingman View Post
People are probably going to disagree with this one, but I think they need to look at possibly replacing Babcock. He's a great coach, maybe he's hit a brick wall with some of the veterans. I know that if I kept hearing the same thing over and over I'd check out mentally eventually.
I think there's merit to the idea of tuning out Babcock. But with so many guys (Lids, Raffy, Homer, Bert, Modano, Draper) in the last two years of their career, I think Babcock will have the ability to refresh that message.

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03-30-2011, 10:48 PM
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I doubt we see anything significant on the trade front. Older guys won't be moved because we won't get their value back, younger guys won't be moved because the older guys won't be around forever.

Maybe a big trade will open up and we'll move a Flip/Hudler + prospects/picks for someone, but I don't think it's going to be something Holland puts down on his to-do list to start the offseason. What we're seeing right now is probably pretty close to what we'll be seeing next season, minus some smaller pieces (Draper, Modano, Eaves, Miller, Salei, Osgood) shuffled around. And even then, I bet half of them are back.

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03-30-2011, 10:58 PM
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Who should be gone? Well. Zetterberg isn't very good anymore and has a horrible contract, Franzen brings nothing anymore and is also on a horrible contract, Filppula can't produce any offense and is overpaid, Hudler is a liability who can't score without Datsyuk and is overpaid, Bertuzzi can't score and is a liability, Homer does nothing but hurt the team in all aspects of the game, Modano.... lol, Draper should have been gone 6 years ago, Eaves has priced himself out of Detroit, Lidstrom is too old and is probably going to retire anyway, Kronwall can't play defense, Rafalski can't play defense and is overpaid, Ericsson is a moron, Salei is a joke, Howard gives up too many rebounds and is just plain awful, Osgood is already gone (right?), McCrimmon has decimated this team's ability to kill penalties, and Babcock has lost the team and has Aspergers. Oh, and Bedard has ruined every goalie in the system.

So, the better question is, who should the Wings keep?

UFA - Datsyuk - UFA
UFA - UFA - Cleary
UFA - Helm - UFA
Miller - UFA - Abdelkader
Mursak
UFA

UFA - Stuart
UFA - UFA
Kindl - UFA
UFA

UFA
UFA

Promote MacLean to head coach, and go find two new assistants and a goalie coach. Make Datsyuk the captain and Stuart and Helm the alternates.

So, the Wings have a little work to do this off-season, especially with Rafalski, Bertuzzi, and Holmstrom having NTCs. They should be able to retrieve some good assets after trading Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Howard though. And they'll have only ~$16.5M committed to 8 players, so not all is lost.

Get on it, Kenny!

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03-30-2011, 11:04 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I doubt we see anything significant on the trade front. Older guys won't be moved because we won't get their value back, younger guys won't be moved because the older guys won't be around forever.

Maybe a big trade will open up and we'll move a Flip/Hudler + prospects/picks for someone, but I don't think it's going to be something Holland puts down on his to-do list to start the offseason. What we're seeing right now is probably pretty close to what we'll be seeing next season, minus some smaller pieces (Draper, Modano, Eaves, Miller, Salei, Osgood) shuffled around. And even then, I bet half of them are back.
I think Flip is the one valuable tradable asset we have that we could afford to move in the right move.

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03-30-2011, 11:07 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I think Flip is the one valuable tradable asset we have that we could afford to move in the right move.
Maybe. I don't think that deal comes around, though. I doubt the Wings would want to get older, and I'm not sure Flip brings in any big, young talent. As I said, if it happens, I think it comes to Kenny.

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03-30-2011, 11:07 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wingman View Post
People are probably going to disagree with this one, but I think they need to look at possibly replacing Babcock. He's a great coach, maybe he's hit a brick wall with some of the veterans. I know that if I kept hearing the same thing over and over I'd check out mentally eventually.
Everyone tunes out the coach eventually.

But I would much rather see changes to the roster before even discussing Babcock.

For as bad as Detroit looked tonight and at times during the season, they're still near the top of the Western Conference

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03-30-2011, 11:11 PM
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Yeah, what do you think we could get for Lidstrom or Datsyuk?

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03-30-2011, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Everyone tunes out the coach eventually.

But I would much rather see changes to the roster before even discussing Babcock.

For as bad as Detroit looked tonight and at times during the season, they're still near the top of the Western Conference
I'm not sure I buy the argument that coaches get tuned out. Bowman was here for ages, and he never seemed to get tuned out. Ruff still looks good in Buffalo, I think Trotz still does a good job in Nashville...maybe it's just that some guys aren't as good as they once were, some others aren't as good as we think they are, and other teams have caught up a bit.

Looking at the team, I think it's clear we're in the process of reconstructing the team a bit, gradually moving some players out and some other players in. Slipping from a 50-55 win team to a 45-50 win team is probably just par for course.

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03-30-2011, 11:20 PM
  #25
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People constantly talk about trading Flip but can anyone give an example of the type of player you'd like to see the Wings get for him? Are we really hurting for a goal scorer? We're second overall in scoring this year with Datsyuk missing 1/3 the season and Franzen frozen cold.

What are you willing to pay his replacement and where do you find the money?

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