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Salary Cap could rise to $62.2M for 2011-12 season

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Old
04-10-2011, 07:39 PM
  #26
Baba Ganoush
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
Sign Laich this summer, he can play on our first line next year and wait for someone (like colborne) that can play for the next ten year instead of Richards for such a limited time.
i'd rather see Kadri play between Kessel and Lupul next season.

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04-10-2011, 07:44 PM
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i'd rather see Kadri play between Kessel and Lupul next season.
I dont think its gonna happen with Wilson, and were not getting into the playoffs with Bozak feeding our #1 scorer

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04-10-2011, 08:17 PM
  #28
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I dont think its gonna happen with Wilson, and were not getting into the playoffs with Bozak feeding our #1 scorer
don't think what's gonna happen with Wilson? Kadri with Kessel? if so, why?


we finished only a few points out of the playoffs this season with our 1a/b C only scoring 30 points, and a rating of -30, while playing with our top scorer all season...

i think the chance of Kadri doing worse in the same role is slim to none.

i'd be less shocked if Bozak wasn't even qualified than i would be if he starts next season centering Kessel...and if we go into next season without adding another top 6 C and Wilson starts Bozak on Kessel's line after the season he just had, he should be fired!

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04-10-2011, 10:55 PM
  #29
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and as a Leaf Fa I should care because???????
Because teams are forced to spend more than they can make which results in teams like the Leafs picking up the tab.

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04-10-2011, 11:13 PM
  #30
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Taking the cap space available and number of players really is meaningless when you don't consider where the holes in our lineup are....

Even if the Richards ($7m) pipedream and the Ehrhoff pipedream ($5.5) come true. After we resign Schenn ($4m), Gunnarsson ($1.75m), Bozak ($1.25m), and Macarthur ($2.75m), Reimer ($1.5m), that's not a lot of money to spend, and not a very good team either...

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($4.250m) / Brad Richards ($7.000m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Clarke MacArthur ($2.750m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($2.900m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.350m)
Nazem Kadri ($1.720m) / Tyler Bozak ($1.250m) / Colby Armstrong ($3.000m)
Mike Brown ($0.736m) / Tim Brent ($0.575m) / Colton Orr ($1.000m)
/ Darryl Boyce ($0.527m)

DEFENSEMEN
Christian Ehrhoff ($5.500m) / Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m)
Carl Gunnarsson ($1.750m) / Luke Schenn ($4.000m)
Keith Aulie ($0.733m) / Mike Komisarek ($4.500m)
Brett Lebda ($1.450m)

GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.500m) / Jonas Gustavsson ($1.350m)

BUYOUTS: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,742,500; BONUSES: $1,000,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $457,500

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04-10-2011, 11:17 PM
  #31
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the only thing that looks super out of place in that lineup is Komisarek's contract and where he is in the lineup. just brutal. he needs go!

also, Lebda should be be waived.

plus i don't think Gunnarsson gets $1.75mil.

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04-10-2011, 11:24 PM
  #32
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Great news for the Leafs. The whole idea of a cap is meaning less each year. It's gone up so much. So many teams are losing monery being millions from the cap max.

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04-11-2011, 06:53 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Taking the cap space available and number of players really is meaningless when you don't consider where the holes in our lineup are....

Even if the Richards ($7m) pipedream and the Ehrhoff pipedream ($5.5) come true. After we resign Schenn ($4m), Gunnarsson ($1.75m), Bozak ($1.25m), and Macarthur ($2.75m), Reimer ($1.5m), that's not a lot of money to spend, and not a very good team either...

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($4.250m) / Brad Richards ($7.000m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Clarke MacArthur ($2.750m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($2.900m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($2.350m)
Nazem Kadri ($1.720m) / Tyler Bozak ($1.250m) / Colby Armstrong ($3.000m)
Mike Brown ($0.736m) / Tim Brent ($0.575m) / Colton Orr ($1.000m)
/ Darryl Boyce ($0.527m)

DEFENSEMEN
Christian Ehrhoff ($5.500m) / Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m)
Carl Gunnarsson ($1.750m) / Luke Schenn ($4.000m)
Keith Aulie ($0.733m) / Mike Komisarek ($4.500m)
Brett Lebda ($1.450m)

GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.500m) / Jonas Gustavsson ($1.350m)

BUYOUTS: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,742,500; BONUSES: $1,000,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $457,500

Regardless of who, we will not be adding another near 6mill to the D core. I don't expect any signings to be honest. Just a top 6 and bottom 6 addition. If Beauchemin taught us anything it is we have too much young depth to be adding big ticket, long term deals to the blue line.

If you counter with anything that implies the youth we have now have already peaked, I swear to god....

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04-11-2011, 07:01 AM
  #34
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I'm actually pretty pissed @ Wilson.

He usually never says anything good about a prospect before or after their first game.

However for Colborne:

I think he should be put in a role where he can succeed: #1 C.

After the game:

I have no doubt he'll be a good NHL'er.

So...where is the love for Kadri? He doesn't have the so called "blue and white disease" or any "nasty" habits anymore.

Yet he's not put in a line where he can succeed.

Thoughts?

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04-11-2011, 07:21 AM
  #35
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That would be devastating to cap floor teams.
good,

maybe (if we get a new commish) we'll have some of these free loading teams move back to Canada.


and who cares about them anyways, as long as benefits us!

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04-11-2011, 09:55 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
Regardless of who, we will not be adding another near 6mill to the D core. I don't expect any signings to be honest. Just a top 6 and bottom 6 addition. If Beauchemin taught us anything it is we have too much young depth to be adding big ticket, long term deals to the blue line.

If you counter with anything that implies the youth we have now have already peaked, I swear to god....
I'll counter with the team as it stands needs a substantial upgrade. They are nowhere near good enough, finishing 8 points out of a playoff spot despite being very lucky with injuries. Our young depth on the blueline is a sign that we need to move Komisarek/Lebda, none of that young depth is going to fill the hole at the top of the lineup.

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04-11-2011, 10:32 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'll counter with the team as it stands needs a substantial upgrade. They are nowhere near good enough, finishing 8 points out of a playoff spot despite being very lucky with injuries. Our young depth on the blueline is a sign that we need to move Komisarek/Lebda, none of that young depth is going to fill the hole at the top of the lineup.
I don't believe our D-core needs an upgrade enough to go blow assets on. I think depth is something we need but top end talent is not worth getting when Aulie, Gunnar are still getting better and we have 1st rd talent coming up the pipe. Moves will be made but the return will depend on the expense and another 5.5 on the blueline is out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

I think that the problem all year, has been the defensive responsilbilty of the forwards. Even the turnover ratios, I have felt have had mroe to do with leaking wingers and weak boardplay, forcing the D to throw the puck into terrible places.

I think that the bottom 6 needs more grit and the 3rd line needs to score more. I think that Kessel needs a Centre but he doesn't need an elite centre to improve. I would spend a lot of money to put an elite C there but I wouldn't sell the farm we just restocked either.

I think it is real easy to say on a forum which players we should get because here, every player is available at the perfect price. In reality, I think we will end up with a stop gap C who can put up 60 pts and 2 bottom 6 players, 1 of which will be able to push for 20g. I think that we will add depth to the D but I do not think we will get anybody else for the top 4.

It would be nice if this was pre-lockout where money talks and we could throw in a boatload of cash to push any deal through but that's not the case. I would bet that if we make the moves that I think we will make, we will be a playoff team when you factor in youth growth.

You talk like 8 points is a lot. 4 wins is really not that big of a hill to climb and the holes on the team are obvious but not as many as you imply

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04-11-2011, 10:50 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
I don't believe our D-core needs an upgrade enough to go blow assets on. I think depth is something we need but top end talent is not worth getting when Aulie, Gunnar are still getting better and we have 1st rd talent coming up the pipe. Moves will be made but the return will depend on the expense and another 5.5 on the blueline is out of the question as far as I'm concerned.

I think that the problem all year, has been the defensive responsilbilty of the forwards. Even the turnover ratios, I have felt have had mroe to do with leaking wingers and weak boardplay, forcing the D to throw the puck into terrible places.

I think that the bottom 6 needs more grit and the 3rd line needs to score more. I think that Kessel needs a Centre but he doesn't need an elite centre to improve. I would spend a lot of money to put an elite C there but I wouldn't sell the farm we just restocked either.

I think it is real easy to say on a forum which players we should get because here, every player is available at the perfect price. In reality, I think we will end up with a stop gap C who can put up 60 pts and 2 bottom 6 players, 1 of which will be able to push for 20g. I think that we will add depth to the D but I do not think we will get anybody else for the top 4.

It would be nice if this was pre-lockout where money talks and we could throw in a boatload of cash to push any deal through but that's not the case. I would bet that if we make the moves that I think we will make, we will be a playoff team when you factor in youth growth.

You talk like 8 points is a lot. 4 wins is really not that big of a hill to climb and the holes on the team are obvious but not as many as you imply
It absolutely does. Gunnarsson is our best puckmover and that's really nothing to write home about. Putting him in a #4 role would be a stretch, nevermind playing 23-24 / night for 82 games. Guys like Gunnarsson, Aulie, Blacker, Gardiner aren't going to fill the hole at the top of our defensive lineup, and certainly not in the near future. Aulie would be a fine replacement for Komisarek on a permanent basis, Blacker/Gardiner would be a fine replacement for Lashoff/Lebda. That's where young players are useful -- at the bottom of the lineup.

The problem all year has been our size up front, but we also had Kaberle & Beauchemin for 2/3 of the year. After they were gone, our defence became much weaker, especially in the puckmoving department. The bottom 6 needs to improve, but that's not a big deal because we have youth to do that. It's amazing how many posters on this board fail to realize that is how youth helps teams.

Toronto does not need depth, that'll come from a strong youth system. Toronto needs substantial additions at the top of their lineup. Kadri & Bozak on the #3 unit should fix our "depth" issues up front next year. Lashoff, Blacker & Aulie will problably be capable depth defenders for us. What we don't have is a #1 C, a #1 LW who's going to do the dirty work, and a top pair puckmoving defenceman. No youth is going to come in and fill those holes next year.

In you're "reality" of who we'll get -- we'll problably be looking at another playoff miss. 8 points is a huge gap to climb, especially when you got an unbelievable performance from a rookie goaltender, stayed injury free, and relied heavily on 1-goal games, as indicated by the fact that Toronto had a top 10 points percentage in 1 goal games, and were a -30 team despite a winning record. This gets back to the complacency that has infested these boards -- Toronto is not a very good team, despite a late season run of overachieving. They still need some substantial help.


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04-11-2011, 11:07 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'll counter with the team as it stands needs a substantial upgrade. They are nowhere near good enough, finishing 8 points out of a playoff spot despite being very lucky with injuries. Our young depth on the blueline is a sign that we need to move Komisarek/Lebda, none of that young depth is going to fill the hole at the top of the lineup.
As I pointed out in another thread the playoff gap was larger than just 8 points.. Leafs are also lucky they play in the East, as Chicago had to hold their collective breath in game #82 hoping 97 points would hold up for 8th in the West.

NYR #8 in the East had a positive goal differential of +35 on the season of Goals For - Goals against. While our Leafs sported among one of the leagues at -33. The standings show that the positive differential team are in the playoffs and the the negative ones are on the sidelines. That is a +68 goal differential and not just a mere 8 points.

In 2009-10 Leafs finished 29th worst in goals against with 267, and despite over 1/2 a season of Reimer's top 10 SV% goaltending the Leafs finished with 251 goals against this season.. That mark is the 3rd worst in the East and 7th worst overall and was only 16 goal improvement on the Toskala disaster the year previously. That is a sign that the defense core needs work, the Leafs defensive awareness need vast improvement and even a potential system change as well to prevent less giveaways and odd man rushes against.

Our special teams are also bottom 10 in the league and what is vital to a teams success and our GM claims it isn't our coaches fault but player personnel and execution.

Therefore even with the Cap going up this team needs lot of work patching holes all over the line-up. Burke is going to have a busy and important off-season because next year its playoffs and bust, but not for the players, but rather the management team themselves as playoff expectations (fueled by this years 2nd half) are an absolute must essentially.

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04-11-2011, 11:19 AM
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Maybe we could salary dump a Komisarek for a top prospect for them to make the cap floor.
exactly...trade him to Colorado for John Michael Liles

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04-11-2011, 11:23 AM
  #41
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As I pointed out in another thread the playoff gap was larger than just 8 points.. Leafs are also lucky they play in the East, as Chicago had to hold their collective breath in game #82 hoping 97 points would hold up for 8th in the West.

NYR #8 in the East had a positive goal differential of +35 on the season of Goals For - Goals against. While our Leafs sported among one of the leagues at -33. The standings show that the positive differential team are in the playoffs and the the negative ones are on the sidelines. That is a +68 goal differential and not just a mere 8 points.

In 2009-10 Leafs finished 29th worst in goals against with 267, and despite over 1/2 a season of Reimer's top 10 SV% goaltending the Leafs finished with 251 goals against this season.. That mark is the 3rd worst in the East and 7th worst overall and was only 16 goal improvement on the Toskala disaster the year previously. That is a sign that the defense core needs work, the Leafs defensive awareness need vast improvement and even a potential system change as well to prevent less giveaways and odd man rushes against.

Our special teams are also bottom 10 in the league and what is vital to a teams success and our GM claims it isn't our coaches fault but player personnel and execution.

Therefore even with the Cap going up this team needs lot of work patching holes all over the line-up. Burke is going to have a busy and important off-season because next year its playoffs and bust, but not for the players, but rather the management team themselves as playoff expectations (fueled by this years 2nd half) are an absolute must essentially.
Completely agree. If you read the most recent post I expaned upon that. Toronto actually had a #12 winning percentage in 1 goal games. Yes -- it's great as that is a sign that we were "finding ways to win games" as opposed to last year when we were finding ways to lose them, but those are also the ones that tend to be most susceptible to luck. When your 1 goal game winning percentage is higher than your actual winning percentage, chances are it'll go down in the following year because it tends to be a sign that you just got the lucky bounces. When your 1 goal game winning percentage is lower than your overall winning percentage, chances are it'll go up because you just werent getting the bounces.

While goal differential only has official meaning in the context of the 4th tiebreaker, it tends to be very indicative of the overall quality of your team. Good teams win big and lose close ones. Toronto snuck out close ones and lost big time.

First factor in injuries, which Toronto was lucky enough to avoid this year. Teams would be thrilled if you told them at the beginning of the season that the only players they'd lose to injury for a significant amount of time are a 3rd liner, top 4 defenceman who was getting booed at home, and the fighter. Then you factor in a sophmore slump for James Reimer (just about every sophmore goaltender does poorly in relation to his rookie year, especially when it's an impressive rookie year)... and we're in for a long season without major additions.

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04-11-2011, 12:24 PM
  #42
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As I pointed out in another thread the playoff gap was larger than just 8 points.. Leafs are also lucky they play in the East, as Chicago had to hold their collective breath in game #82 hoping 97 points would hold up for 8th in the West.

NYR #8 in the East had a positive goal differential of +35 on the season of Goals For - Goals against. While our Leafs sported among one of the leagues at -33. The standings show that the positive differential team are in the playoffs and the the negative ones are on the sidelines. That is a +68 goal differential and not just a mere 8 points.

In 2009-10 Leafs finished 29th worst in goals against with 267, and despite over 1/2 a season of Reimer's top 10 SV% goaltending the Leafs finished with 251 goals against this season.. That mark is the 3rd worst in the East and 7th worst overall and was only 16 goal improvement on the Toskala disaster the year previously. That is a sign that the defense core needs work, the Leafs defensive awareness need vast improvement and even a potential system change as well to prevent less giveaways and odd man rushes against.

Our special teams are also bottom 10 in the league and what is vital to a teams success and our GM claims it isn't our coaches fault but player personnel and execution.

Therefore even with the Cap going up this team needs lot of work patching holes all over the line-up. Burke is going to have a busy and important off-season because next year its playoffs and bust, but not for the players, but rather the management team themselves as playoff expectations (fueled by this years 2nd half) are an absolute must essentially.
I see your solidly on the quick rebuild bandwagon. Surprising actually. No question the goal differential has to be fixed, but some are able to understand these kinds of things happen to young teams all the time. That a team without a 1st line center would struggle to score goals and a team with subpar goaltending would struggle with goals against. That a defensive unit with a top 4 of 21, 21, 24 and 25 would struggle to add goals from the back end and cause giveaways that create goals against. That is part of player development and experience for a young team. How many goals did we get from the defenceman the 1st 50 games?

It's no surprise a bottom 6 who scores 15ish goals will affect a goals for.

How many additional goals could have been scored if we had a #1 centerman on our powerplay? How many more goals could have been prevented on our PK with adequate goaltending? What if a #1 center helped score 1 goal every 8 games on the PP? Is that unrealistic? Could a better goalie all year prevented 1 goal every 8 games for the 1st 50 games? That's 6 or 7 less GA. Is that unrealistic?

Personally, I think these numbers will be improved on the backs of development and with the insertion of better skill either from within or acquisition.

I guess my point is that we don't need to fill all the gaps immediately as we wait to see who can fill those holes from within' and this notion of "playoffs or bust" is made up in your dreams because personally I'm OK with another development season specifically if we see guys like Colborne, Kadri and Gardiner start to make an impact on the club. Unfortunately, if that happens we may be in for another season of ups and downs and another -20 season. It may not be Burke's optimal plan, but if Richards isn't available, that may be his plan B.

Would you be patient enough to accept that?

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04-11-2011, 01:25 PM
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The 2010-11 season’s ceiling is $59.4 million, but the NHL Players Association could vote on a measure that would bump it up about 4.7 percent to $62.2 million for 2011-12, according to Larry Brooks of the NY Post.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...2011-12-season

This would give the leafs 26 Million in cap space with 12 players signed.
Well, I'll humbly submit that there's not a chance in hell the NHLPA won't bump the cap again, they've done it every year. Brooks has been good at getting the cap info right in years past, I'm comfortable taking this info as likely to be very close to accurate.

Works for me, keep the cap going sky high, it can only benefit us long term.

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04-11-2011, 01:31 PM
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As I pointed out in another thread the playoff gap was larger than just 8 points.. Leafs are also lucky they play in the East, as Chicago had to hold their collective breath in game #82 hoping 97 points would hold up for 8th in the West.
If the Leafs were in the West they could have had a very different looking team, since we are dealing with an imaginary scenario.

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04-11-2011, 01:47 PM
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Well, I'll humbly submit that there's not a chance in hell the NHLPA won't bump the cap again, they've done it every year. Brooks has been good at getting the cap info right in years past, I'm comfortable taking this info as likely to be very close to accurate.

Works for me, keep the cap going sky high, it can only benefit us long term.
Wouldn't it hurt us in the sense that Teams that were going into next year tight against the cap will now have a little extra room? ie. Wouldn't this leave the Rangers with more space to make a run at Richards?

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04-11-2011, 01:49 PM
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Wouldn't it hurt us in the sense that Teams that were going into next year tight against the cap will now have a little extra room? ie. Wouldn't this leave the Rangers with more space to make a run at Richards?
Ya, that's all true enough, but long term I figure teams can't keep up forever if it keeps going up, at least most of them anyhow. Eventually it's got to get high enough that we're at a significant competitive advantage against most teams.

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04-11-2011, 01:52 PM
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As I pointed out in another thread the playoff gap was larger than just 8 points.. Leafs are also lucky they play in the East, as Chicago had to hold their collective breath in game #82 hoping 97 points would hold up for 8th in the West.
Montreal, Buffalo and the Rangers are even luckier.

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04-11-2011, 01:55 PM
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Ya, that's all true enough, but long term I figure teams can't keep up forever if it keeps going up, at least most of them anyhow. Eventually it's got to get high enough that we're at a significant competitive advantage against most teams.
At some point it will have to level off or whats the point of a Cap?

Back in the Leafs big spending days what was the highest their payroll hit?

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04-11-2011, 02:02 PM
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Ya, that's all true enough, but long term I figure teams can't keep up forever if it keeps going up, at least most of them anyhow. Eventually it's got to get high enough that we're at a significant competitive advantage against most teams.
This is going to benefit the rich teams proportionally to the small market teams, IMO. They will still be playing in front of a lot of empty seats or need to cut ticket prices to move them so can't count on $2-3 million more in revenue when they are likely going to need to struggle to keep what they have..

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04-11-2011, 02:03 PM
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Squiffy
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
At some point it will have to level off or whats the point of a Cap?

Back in the Leafs big spending days what was the highest their payroll hit?
Hopefully not, if the top earning teams can just keep increasing revenue faster then the low end can lose it.

About 65 million as I recall.

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