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WCQF: (1) Vancouver Canucks vs (8) Chicago Blackhawks Part II

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04-11-2011, 06:44 PM
  #76
Chris Hansen
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
No I think that is also fair. it would be nice if the officiating would be fair, and let's hope it is. I personally like the Hawks, always have. I like Toews and Kane. I just wanted the Canucks to beat them on 09, cause I knew they wouldn't last year.

Again, I think that stat of 45% of the past scoring gone will be a massive factor. The hawks will win if their bottom 6 can be as effective as the previous bottom line players.

If not, Vancouver can score enough and play strong enough defense to win the games they need to.
For sure, the 45% stat is an important one (and worrying as well, being a Hawks fan myself). Keep in mind that the players the Hawks lost make up about 33% of the roster (just a guess - I don't feel like counting them up), so of course a fairly high percentage is to be expected. Obviously the guys who will replace those who scored that 45% will not be as effective... but they will make up at least some of the difference. Basically, what I'm saying is that the Hawks will not automatically score 45% less goals than they did last year, that's all. Byfuglien, Versteeg, Ladd, etc.'s replacements will be able to put in at least a few themselves, I would think.

Vancouver, on paper, is undeniably stronger than Chicago at forward and goalie. Defense is arguable, although the season stats obviously favor Vancouver. It may be the homer in me but I really do think the Hawks' top five can compete (and/or best) those of any other team in the league. Leddy is a damn solid #6 as well. Stats would indicate Vancouver's D being superior, but I'm not so sure we can say that outright as of right now.
In addition, although I don't think anyone would say that Niemi is a better goalie than Luongo, he outplayed Lou last spring. Could the same happen with Crawford?

We'll see... it's a lot of "if's" and questions that will need to go in the Hawks' favor if they're going to win this series. Vancouver is the favorite between the two teams for the first time ever. Can't wait to see how it goes

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04-11-2011, 06:44 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
Can we just call up Beach, throw a Buff mask/jersey on him and park him in front of the net. I think it will really help even if he sucks.
If Brouwer is ineffective, it's something to think about for the 4th line, and you know the Hawks always think outside the box and exhaust all options. We just need guys like Bickell, Brouwer and Kopecky to fill that roll. Beach wouldn't be able to get it done by himself anyway.

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04-11-2011, 06:45 PM
  #78
Chris Hansen
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
Malhotra being injured really does put a damper on the canucks depth.

However the remaining bottom six players are still decent.

Raymond-Hodgson-Hansen has a lot of skill, speed and audacity. Raymond can put pucks in the net if he's fed good passes and Hansen is a great forchecker. It's unfortunate that the canucks couldn't call Hodgson up sooner due to the salary cap; however if that line clicks it could be very good.

Glass-Lapierre-Oreskovich are tough and hard to play against to a man. I expect this line to be able to hold its own for the 7-8 minutes a game they get.
Fair enough - all I was really saying was that they don't really compare at all to last year's Blackhawk bottom 6.

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04-11-2011, 06:48 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Tomahawk214 View Post
08-09 Sharks and 09-10 Caps say hello.
Oh, wait, the 08-09 Sharks and 09-10 Capitals lost? Why even play the series guys, it's over.


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04-11-2011, 06:48 PM
  #80
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Aside from PP/PK, I think the key to this series will be how well the Canucks handle the Hawks forecheck. When the Canucks have lost to the Blackhawks it's seems to me that the defensemen aren't making good passes or good decisions against the pressure.

I heard a lot of analysts, including Eddie Olczyk this morning, say that the Canucks struggle against the Hawks when they try to play too fast. I disagree because the miscues against the forecheck just make it look like they are playing too fast. If the Canucks defensemen play with poise it will be very difficult for the Hawks to pull the upset.

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04-11-2011, 06:48 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan View Post
Totally agree. That team, if they stayed together would've won 3 or even 4 cups. i truly believe that. It was a ridiculously deep team.
Indeed... imagine if that Hawks team and this year's Canucks matched up. The star power, dislike, and ultimately the "hockey value" that series would have would be incredible.

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04-11-2011, 06:50 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by struckmatch View Post
Oh, wait, the 08-09 Sharks and 09-10 Capitals lost? Why even play the series guys, it's over.

I am intersted to know which first time President's trophy team ( who never pass 2nd round) able to get into SCF?

Colorado and Detroit got into SCF and won the cup in 2001 and 2008, but they have won the cups before AND got into conference finals.

edit: here is the list of the last 30 President's trophy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidents'_Trophy


Last edited by Mules: 04-11-2011 at 07:29 PM.
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Old
04-11-2011, 06:52 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
For sure, the 45% stat is an important one (and worrying as well, being a Hawks fan myself). Keep in mind that the players the Hawks lost make up about 33% of the roster (just a guess - I don't feel like counting them up), so of course a fairly high percentage is to be expected. Obviously the guys who will replace those who scored that 45% will not be as effective... but they will make up at least some of the difference. Basically, what I'm saying is that the Hawks will not score 45% less goals than they did last year, that's all.

Vancouver, on paper, is undeniably stronger than Chicago at forward and goalie. Defense is arguable, although the season stats obviously favor Vancouver. It may be the homer in me but I really do think the Hawks' top five can compete (and/or best) those of any other team in the league. Leddy is a damn solid #6 as well. Stats would indicate Vancouver's D being superior, but I'm not so sure we can say that outright as of right now.
In addition, although I don't think anyone would say that Niemi is a better goalie than Luongo, he outplayed Lou last spring. Could the same happen with Crawford?

We'll see... it's a lot of "if's" and questions that will need to go in the Hawks' favor if they're going to win this series. Vancouver is the favorite between the two teams for the first time ever. Can't wait to see how it goes
The Hawks scored 3.83 goals a game against the canucks last year. Do you really expect them to be able to match that pace or anything close to it this year, when they only averaged 3.07 goals a game in the regular season?

I guess there is the theory that the blackhawks just hold Vancouver's number (despite losing most of the players that gave Vancouver the hardest time last playoffs) and that Luongo and his defence will crumble again. But it seems to me likely that Vancouver will be much more effective against the Hawks this year given the changes to both teams.

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Old
04-11-2011, 06:56 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
The Hawks scored 3.83 goals a game against the canucks last year. Do you really expect them to be able to match that pace or anything close to it this year, when they only averaged 3.07 goals a game in the regular season?

I guess there is the theory that the blackhawks just hold Vancouver's number (despite losing most of the players that gave Vancouver the hardest time last playoffs) and that Luongo and his defence will crumble again. But it seems to me likely that Vancouver will be much more effective against the Hawks this year given the changes to both teams.
The Hawks scored 3.3 goals/game last year and then proceeded to put up the stat you mentioned against Vancouver in the playoffs. In a 7 game series, anything can happen.
To answer your question, though, no. I'm not stupid - I don't think the Hawks will score that many goals. If they're going to win, their D will need to come through.

Still, though, do you expect Chicago's GF to basically be half of last year's? That would be quite a bit more asinine and silly than anything I may have suggested.

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04-11-2011, 07:19 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SchruteFarms View Post
Aside from PP/PK, I think the key to this series will be how well the Canucks handle the Hawks forecheck. When the Canucks have lost to the Blackhawks it's seems to me that the defensemen aren't making good passes or good decisions against the pressure.

I heard a lot of analysts, including Eddie Olczyk this morning, say that the Canucks struggle against the Hawks when they try to play too fast. I disagree because the miscues against the forecheck just make it look like they are playing too fast. If the Canucks defensemen play with poise it will be very difficult for the Hawks to pull the upset.
That's my thinking as well, and it's why I'm very glad to have Hamhuis and Ballard this year. More mobility and more physicality. It's also why Bieksa still scares me -- if he's to revert to his old form, it will be against the Hawks.

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04-11-2011, 07:20 PM
  #86
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I have no idea whats going to happen in this series but it should be fun. ill be staying up to watch these games for sure.

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Old
04-11-2011, 07:20 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
The Hawks scored 3.3 goals/game last year and then proceeded to put up the stat you mentioned against Vancouver in the playoffs. In a 7 game series, anything can happen.
To answer your question, though, no. I'm not stupid - I don't think the Hawks will score that many goals. If they're going to win, their D will need to come through.

Still, though, do you expect Chicago's GF to basically be half of last year's? That would be quite a bit more asinine and silly than anything I may have suggested.
I don't expect the Hawks to score that much less no.

However, remember the canucks still averaged 3.00gpg against the Hawks last year. I absolutely expect the canucks to be able to match this number if the Hawks attempt to play the same open style.

I'm not sure the Hawks can match this, as the canucks defence and goaltending should be much better equipped to handle the Hawks offence.

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04-11-2011, 07:22 PM
  #88
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Big test for the Nucks right off the bat - when Chicago is rolling they can beat anyone.

Goaltending might be an issue - for both teams.

If Vancouver loses do we see big changes?

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04-11-2011, 07:24 PM
  #89
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04-11-2011, 07:32 PM
  #90
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I really want Chicago to win this, and IMO they will. They competed in the much more difficult division during the year, still have many of their core pieces from last year, and are hungry to pull off the upset victory over Vancouver. Defending cup champs utilize experience and confidence to knock off a cocky #1 seed that just can't pull their **** together in the playoffs.


Pisani is the difference maker. First playoff series since dominating in '06 amirite?

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04-11-2011, 07:33 PM
  #91
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go ahead hawk fans...beat that!!!

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Old
04-11-2011, 07:39 PM
  #92
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go ahead hawk fans...beat that!!!
I think this is her boyfriend:

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04-11-2011, 07:41 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ovechking View Post
I really want Chicago to win this, and IMO they will. They competed in the much more difficult division during the year, still have many of their core pieces from last year, and are hungry to pull off the upset victory over Vancouver. Defending cup champs utilize experience and confidence to knock off a cocky #1 seed that just can't pull their **** together in the playoffs.


Pisani is the difference maker. First playoff series since dominating in '06 amirite?
Yea, but we have Raffi Torres ( another oiler difference maker ). I hope we make you eat your words, but if we dont, at least we got to the playoffs amirite?

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04-11-2011, 07:52 PM
  #94
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I just pissed myself...that was awesomely funny!

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Old
04-11-2011, 07:53 PM
  #95
Chris Hansen
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
I don't expect the Hawks to score that much less no.

However, remember the canucks still averaged 3.00gpg against the Hawks last year. I absolutely expect the canucks to be able to match this number if the Hawks attempt to play the same open style.

I'm not sure the Hawks can match this, as the canucks defence and goaltending should be much better equipped to handle the Hawks offence.
Very good points. The Canucks have an even better offense than last year simply based on how their players have improved (notably Kesler and D. Sedin, although the latter probably would've had a season like this one last year if not for injuries).

Anyway... games between the Canucks and Hawks usually do seem to develop into run and gun games - the two teams just trading offensive chances. And if we look at the top six of each team (I think we can agree that neither's bottom 6 will make all that much of an offensive impact), are the Hawks and Canucks not pretty damn similar? Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Frolik, and either Smith or Bolland (depends on Q's preference) vs. Sedin, Sedin, Kesler, Burrows, Samuelsson, and Higgins...
Maybe Vancouver has the edge, maybe the Hawks do. I would expect fans of each team to put their support for their own top-6, so it's silly to argue about that - I won't bother.
At any rate, the top-6 forwards of each team are very similar in ability.

You mention a better defense and goaltending for Vancouver. Very true. Hamhuis and Ballard are huge additions (as is the fact that the Canucks D are just healthy in general). Can Ehrhoff and Edler shut down Toews and Kane this year? We'll have to see. Can Keith and Seabrook do the same to the Sedins? Again, no way to tell right now.

In the end, this is all just arguing what we can see on paper. The games are played on the ice... and a hell of a series of 'em it'll be. Cheers

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Old
04-11-2011, 07:57 PM
  #96
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Very good points. The Canucks have an even better offense than last year simply based on how their players have improved (notably Kesler and D. Sedin, although the latter probably would've had a season like this one last year if not for injuries).

Anyway... games between the Canucks and Hawks usually do seem to develop into run and gun games - the two teams just trading offensive chances. And if we look at the top six of each team (I think we can agree that neither's bottom 6 will make all that much of an offensive impact), are the Hawks and Canucks not pretty damn similar? Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Frolik, and either Smith or Bolland (depends on Q's preference) vs. Sedin, Sedin, Kesler, Burrows, Samuelsson, and Higgins...
Maybe Vancouver has the edge, maybe the Hawks do. I would expect fans of each team to put their support for their own top-6, so it's silly to argue about that - I won't bother.
At any rate, the top-6 forwards of each team are very similar in ability.

You mention a better defense and goaltending for Vancouver. Very true. Hamhuis and Ballard are huge additions (as is the fact that the Canucks D are just healthy in general). Can Ehrhoff and Edler shut down Toews and Kane this year? We'll have to see. Can Keith and Seabrook do the same to the Sedins? Again, no way to tell right now.

In the end, this is all just arguing what we can see on paper. The games are played on the ice... and a hell of a series of 'em it'll be. Cheers
Great post. You just don't know whats going to happen, all we can do is serve alot of crow to be eaten later.

You know, this is a dream series, when you get past all the HF bull.

These teams know each other SO well, and this is gonna be one hell of a series.

I think it all rests on the first game.

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Old
04-11-2011, 08:10 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Ovechking View Post
I really want Chicago to win this, and IMO they will. They competed in the much more difficult division during the year, still have many of their core pieces from last year, and are hungry to pull off the upset victory over Vancouver. Defending cup champs utilize experience and confidence to knock off a cocky #1 seed that just can't pull their **** together in the playoffs.


Pisani is the difference maker. First playoff series since dominating in '06 amirite?
The guy was an Oiler since 2006 so yeah no playoffs for him since then

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Old
04-11-2011, 08:17 PM
  #98
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They competed in the much more difficult division during the year,
Lets see Vancouver 12-5-3 against that much more difficult division that Chicago is in vs Chicago 10-9-1 against that so so easy division Vancouver is in. Yep I`m impressed with that argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechking View Post
still have many of their core pieces from last year, and are hungry to pull off the upset victory over Vancouver.
Thing is in the salary cap era the margin between winning and losing is incredibly thin. It does not take the loss of many players to disrupt the chemistry and lose the edge Chicago had last year.

As for hunger and motivation, well I suspect Vancouver has an equal if not greater hunger to finally knock off their bitter rival


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovechking View Post
Defending cup champs utilize experience and confidence to knock off a cocky #1 seed that just can't pull their **** together in the playoffs.
Is that the same experienced and confident Chicago team needing only a single loser point to clinch a playoff spot playing at home against a banged up shorthanded Detroit Red Wings team who had nothing but pride to play for. The same Chicago team that only made the playoffs because another team choked worse than Chicago in their final game.

Talk about teams not getting their **** together.

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Old
04-11-2011, 08:17 PM
  #99
Jeffrey Lebowski
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I'm going to try really hard to avoid this thread and any related threads that aren't on the Hawks board. So I'd like to get all rationality and geniality out now before becoming a crazed fan: Congrats 'Nucks fans for a great regular season and good luck in the post-season (but not too much).

That being said:

Hawks in 7.

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Old
04-11-2011, 08:35 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Big test for the Nucks right off the bat - when Chicago is rolling they can beat anyone.

Goaltending might be an issue - for both teams.

If Vancouver loses do we see big changes?
Coaching staff is canned if we lose in the 1st round you can believe that.

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