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Lovejoy's offense

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Old
04-11-2011, 07:12 PM
  #1
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Lovejoy's offense

18 points in 47 games (pro-rates to a little over 30 points in a full season), while the two best offensive players on the team are out. Good puckmover who can make some heads-up plays and get the puck on net.

He'll never be a dynamic offensive player, but have we underestimated his production potential a little? Martin-type numbers would seem to be within his reach (although we should be careful not to "Bozak" up the kid's ceiling after half a year ).

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04-11-2011, 07:20 PM
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JWells16
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He's picked up his play as of late. As we've seen with Letang and Goligoski, offensive defensemen (well, defensemen in general) can take a bit of time to develop their overall game. Maybe I was a bit too hard on him early on, but he's started improving, and I think he can be an asset to this team in two years.

That being said, I think that he could be eaten alive come playoff time. Hopefully he's ready on Wednesday.

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04-11-2011, 07:26 PM
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SaturdayNightSlegr
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The rev. is a beast. He's like a Scuds/Eaton but with decent wheels and a shot. Can move the puck as well. Very solid, all-around #5. Unbelievable value, too.

Any shakiness attributed to Lovejoy is a myth. He is very solid (+11) and much less prone to unforced errors than Engo or Nisk (-8 combined). I have no problem with him getting key minutes come playoff time.

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04-11-2011, 07:30 PM
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eXile59
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His offensive play is not even close to making up for his bone head decisions he makes in his own zone.

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04-11-2011, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
His offensive play is not even close to making up for his bone head decisions he makes in his own zone.
I don't mind his play in our zone but I do mind the fact that he gets beat off the rush to the outside like it's going out of style. Him and Deryk Engelland really have that problem.


If I'm Guy Boucher I try to match MSL on Lovejoy's side whenever I can because MSL has the speed to embarrass him.

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04-11-2011, 07:40 PM
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I don't mind his play in our zone but I do mind the fact that he gets beat off the rush to the outside like it's going out of style. Him and Deryk Engelland really have that problem.


If I'm Guy Boucher I try to match MSL on Lovejoy's side whenever I can because MSL has the speed to embarrass him.
If I'm Dan Bylsma I make every effort to keep the third pair away from St. Loius. Given that he has two solid match up pairs it's not as difficult as a hard match.

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04-11-2011, 07:47 PM
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If I'm Dan Bylsma I make every effort to keep the third pair away from St. Loius. Given that he has two solid match up pairs it's not as difficult as a hard match.
Honestly I'd prefer if Bylsma mimicked what Philly did last year where their third pairing basically didn't play much at all in the playoffs.

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04-11-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
I don't mind his play in our zone but I do mind the fact that he gets beat off the rush to the outside like it's going out of style. Him and Deryk Engelland really have that problem.


If I'm Guy Boucher I try to match MSL on Lovejoy's side whenever I can because MSL has the speed to embarrass him.
Well of course that's what you want... And if I'm Bylsma, you want Crosby and/or Malkin going up against the opposing team's 4th line. Unfortunately, (or fortunately for us) the other coach has a brain.

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04-11-2011, 07:53 PM
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Well of course that's what you want... And if I'm Bylsma, you want Crosby and/or Malkin going up against the opposing team's 4th line. Unfortunately, (or fortunately for us) the other coach has a brain.
Well not just MSL. Really match any fast forward up against Lovejoy and he'll struggle. He's not like Gill who has the smarts and positioning to prevent getting abused.

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04-11-2011, 08:05 PM
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Well not just MSL. Really match any fast forward up against Lovejoy and he'll struggle. He's not like Gill who has the smarts and positioning to prevent getting abused.
Gill was also 6'7" and couldn't make a breakout pass to save his life.

I, for one, don't miss Gill and Scuds getting hemmed in their own end for shifts at a time because neither one could get the puck out of their end.

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04-11-2011, 08:14 PM
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Honestly I'd prefer if Bylsma mimicked what Philly did last year where their third pairing basically didn't play much at all in the playoffs.
He'll need to give the 5-6 guys at least 10 minutes each and probably closer to 14-16 on some nights.

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04-11-2011, 08:27 PM
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Honestly I'd prefer if Bylsma mimicked what Philly did last year where their third pairing basically didn't play much at all in the playoffs.
I think and hope that is his intentions. We basically have two number one pairings and its time for them to really earn their pay checks playing in the area of 30 minutes a game.

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04-11-2011, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Gill was also 6'7" and couldn't make a breakout pass to save his life.

I, for one, don't miss Gill and Scuds getting hemmed in their own end for shifts at a time because neither one could get the puck out of their end.
Oh, they could get it out, but it'd be coming right back in because everything was hard and high off the glass.

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04-11-2011, 08:59 PM
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Lovejoy deserves some pp time, and with the way the power play is I don't think it would hurt. Also, I think we need to change the pairings. Letang-Rev, Orpik-Nisk, Martin-Mich. It's a lot better overall, unless we want to play our top 4 for 25 min+ each night.

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04-11-2011, 09:04 PM
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Like Lovejoy on the offensive side of the puck, not so much D though. I think he is better than some of the guys we have had in the past (Alain Nasirerdine) (Melicar)

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04-11-2011, 09:10 PM
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I suppose this is another one of those instances where past crusades mean I am not being entirely objective.

Either way, nothing surprising about Lovejoy's points, plus/minus or performances in my book. The only thing that surprises me is that people are not in general more high on him.
If he gets a full-time nr.5 role next season he is going to be the D-man who gets the second most points on our team after Letang provided that we don't bring in someone else to run the PP (and I suppose we won't).

And yes, he will get beaten from time to time. More natural still with less than one full NHL season's worth of experience against this level of competition. You win some and you lose some. As long as we can keep Lovejoy up against less than super star opposition, he has shown both this season and last that he is not a liability and either way will contribute more than enough offense to offset the odd missed assignment.

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04-11-2011, 09:24 PM
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I'll be sold on Lovejoy after the playoffs -- I hope.

Good kid, I want to see him succeed.

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04-11-2011, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakunitz23 View Post
Lovejoy deserves some pp time, and with the way the power play is I don't think it would hurt. Also, I think we need to change the pairings. Letang-Rev, Orpik-Nisk, Martin-Mich. It's a lot better overall, unless we want to play our top 4 for 25 min+ each night.
I vote for the 25 min+. Spreading our average to below average defensmen through out the lineup is not going to help win close games.

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04-11-2011, 10:21 PM
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Randy Butternubs
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If it does come down to this, which ONE of these three do you keep?:

Engelland, Niskanen, Lovejoy

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04-11-2011, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mechanical View Post
If it does come down to this, which ONE of these three do you keep?:

Engelland, Niskanen, Lovejoy
That is a rough one given that all three have had at times played well and at times played bad. I want to say Niskanen because he has some what decent gap control but he does some stupid stuff. Both Lovejoy and Engelland get beat wide way too much on the rush and Lovejoy has brain farts as well.

I guess I say Engelland because at least he can clear the crease and doesn't brain fart as much. Though St. Louis busting down the wing on him gives me nightmares.

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04-12-2011, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mechanical View Post
If it does come down to this, which ONE of these three do you keep?:

Engelland, Niskanen, Lovejoy
Engelland. Longest contract, cheapest contract, and the most needed skillset.

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04-12-2011, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Engelland. Longest contract, cheapest contract, and the most needed skillset.
I'd agree with this, but that really is a tough call. All of those guys bring something valuable to that bottom pairing.

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04-12-2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanical View Post
If it does come down to this, which ONE of these three do you keep?:

Engelland, Niskanen, Lovejoy
That really is a tough one. All 3 of them are still young, and all 3 of them excell in certain aspects of the game that make them particularly useful. Personally, I never would've thought that we would have this much depth at the blueline going into the post-season. Needless to say though, I'm pretty damn happy we do

As for Lovejoy himself, I've got nothing but praise for how he played this season. 18 pts in 47 games is pretty damn good for a rookie d-man who was playing bottom pairing minutes for most of the season. He's definitely an NHL calibre d-man as far as I'm concerned.

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04-12-2011, 08:32 AM
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I'd agree with this, but that really is a tough call. All of those guys bring something valuable to that bottom pairing.
I'm not sure Niskanen brings all that much really, he's a solid/steady type at his best it seems. Lovejoy and Engelland, on the other hand, have very obvious strengths and weaknesses. I don't see Lovejoy building on these numbers unless he's the full-time #5 d-man next season but we'll see how he does in the playoffs.

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04-12-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
His offensive play is not even close to making up for his bone head decisions he makes in his own zone.
You do realize he's a +11 and that he's been on the ice for only 22 goals against but has 17 points?

His offense alone almost covers all the goals he's been on for, and that's only 5v5.

He also blocks far more shots than either of the others, and on the turnovers...

Lovejoy - .17 Giveaways per game.
Niskanen - .22
Engo - .22 (not a typo, same as niskanen)

It baffles me people can't recognize how good Lovejoy is, all you need to do is watch him with the puck on his stick for like 5 seconds and you can tell he's a super-intelligent hockey player.

And to those saying he gets beat wide too much...Did you not see him catch Michael Grabner in the NYI game from behind once he got beat and take the puck away? One of thee fastest guys in the league?

#1. Many of those times it's because we've given up an odd man break and he's got to cheat towards another player a bit.
#2. You're taught to keep guys outside, almost to the point that you let them beat you outside if it means you keep them from the inside. I'd much rather my defender force guys wide than inside, and so would Bylsma. The only way you do that is if you skate well enough to maintain position and know what that position is. Lovejoy does both.

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