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If we Trade the First round pick

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Old
04-12-2011, 05:15 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by JKP View Post
This is a false argument. Goring trade was to put a contender over the top. LaFontaine was a $$ issue. We're in completely different situations. Apples and broccoli.

Thisisacodee is 100% correct in his statement. Stay the course. Draft. Screw this trading away young assets for some accelerator. Keep them and draft. The talent will start to win, then with the surplus stockpile, trade from strength.

Unless we're trading crap or later round picks to take on salary for someone with a $ problem, stay the course and draft, draft, draft.
I agree with the premise of the statement - continue to build through the draft. Unfortunately, of the trades mentioned, Muller, Linden, and Smyth never wanted to come to the Isles to begin with (never even tried to contribute once they did) and Yashin was still the same tin-man in Long Island that he was in Ottawa (no heart).

Perhaps a better example of what I would be looking for when dealing away any prospect/picks would be the Peca trade (pre-Tuckered) - young assets (Connelly and Pyatt) for a veteran with specific talents (leadership, playoff experience, defense, penalty killing, face-offs, etc..)

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04-12-2011, 06:35 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by izzo View Post
Let's calm down here. Wouldn't you say that Zach Bogosian immediately becomes the team's #1 defenseman if we trade the fourth overall pick for him? For a team ready to start winning, don't you think that's a trade you're willing to make?

We're not talking about getting a player like Trevor Linden or Alexei Yashin here. Bogosian will be 21 in July. His best days are not behind him. He'll be a massive upgrade on our back line, one we won't find elsewhere. Parise's a little different in that he's around the Yashin age and he's dealt with injuries in recent years. But isn't he still the best forward on this team if we sign him/trade for him? Keep it in mind.

Sure, it's great to build through the draft. Yes, the Isles of the 1980s did it. This isn't the 1980s anymore. The league has a salary cap now. Scouting for all teams is better now than it was then. It will be difficult for any team to get a player of Trottier's or Bossy's caliber in the later part of the first round, as the NYI did.

Sometimes, you have to accelerate a rebuild. If you can get a Zach Bogosian, which can get you closer to the playoffs, you do it at this point of the rebuild. The time for rebuilding is over. The team had success down the stretch this year. It's time to cash in.

Plus, it's not like the Islanders are trading every single draft pick they've made in recent years. Just this one. And the prospect is still an unknown at this point. Hell, we don't even know who the pick is yet. It's not like the NYI are trading prospects under contract for Bogosian. They wouldn't even make the pick most likely.
You said it perfectlly! couldn't agree more

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04-12-2011, 06:57 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by IslandersFan View Post
I agree with the premise of the statement - continue to build through the draft. Unfortunately, of the trades mentioned, Muller, Linden, and Smyth never wanted to come to the Isles to begin with (never even tried to contribute once they did) and Yashin was still the same tin-man in Long Island that he was in Ottawa (no heart).

Perhaps a better example of what I would be looking for when dealing away any prospect/picks would be the Peca trade (pre-Tuckered) - young assets (Connelly and Pyatt) for a veteran with specific talents (leadership, playoff experience, defense, penalty killing, face-offs, etc..)
Right. We did that and had one good year. Then we went back to being mediocre and getting into the POs with the 8 spot for a couple years.

No. Just keep drafting talent and let it mature, and then when there's lots in the system and we're starting to win, use some surplus assets to obtain some talent to fill in any holes.

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04-12-2011, 07:22 PM
  #29
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I don't think it will happen straight up anyway but this is how I see the trade for Bogosian...He was the 3rd pick in his draft, lets say we end up getting the 4th pick in this years draft. This is the perfect way to speed up the rebuild in my eyes because its basically the same value also some people believe we should be taking a defensemen in this draft anyway.

If we could draft a 21 year old defenseman with 2 years of NHL experience would you do it? I would, basically instead of saying "STAY THE COURSE, DON'T GIVE UP THE FARM SYSTEM!" why don't you just look at Bogo as our 2011 draft pick, thats what it amounts to?

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04-12-2011, 07:24 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izzo View Post
Let's calm down here. Wouldn't you say that Zach Bogosian immediately becomes the team's #1 defenseman if we trade the fourth overall pick for him? For a team ready to start winning, don't you think that's a trade you're willing to make?
Bogosian hasnt even been a solid 2nd pairing defender for the Thrashers, how would he immediately be our number 1 ?

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04-12-2011, 08:23 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by JKP View Post
Right. We did that and had one good year. Then we went back to being mediocre and getting into the POs with the 8 spot for a couple years.

No. Just keep drafting talent and let it mature, and then when there's lots in the system and we're starting to win, use some surplus assets to obtain some talent to fill in any holes.
Just out of curiosity - since when did being mediocre and getting into the playoffs in the #8 spot become worse than being a consistant lottery pick?

It goes without saying that a couple of lottery picks has made the future of this franchise brighter, but at some point these youngsters have to gain confidence and learn how to win games. That doesn't happen by being perenial losers. At some point this team needs to add a veteran or two, preferably a playoff-hardened first-liner, in order to take it to the next level.

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04-12-2011, 08:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CaptDenisPotvin View Post
I don't think it will happen straight up anyway but this is how I see the trade for Bogosian...He was the 3rd pick in his draft, lets say we end up getting the 4th pick in this years draft. This is the perfect way to speed up the rebuild in my eyes because its basically the same value also some people believe we should be taking a defensemen in this draft anyway.

If we could draft a 21 year old defenseman with 2 years of NHL experience would you do it? I would, basically instead of saying "STAY THE COURSE, DON'T GIVE UP THE FARM SYSTEM!" why don't you just look at Bogo as our 2011 draft pick, thats what it amounts to?
The difference is time spent in another organization. Whether we like it or not, there's still a negative stigma attached to this organization.

Shea Weber has spent the last 6 years of his career playing for the Nashville Predators, eventually earning the organization's trust enough to become captain. You've been arguably the most important skater for a team that finished 5th in a very competitive Western Conference, and you've basically become the toast of Nashville.

Then, suddenly, you're on the Islanders, one of the worst teams in the league several years straight. Garth Snow calls to offer a contract extension. Islanders fans welcome you but also expect you to be Niklas Lidstrom every night.

How long of a contract do you sign? Do you go to Arbitration to get a 1-year deal and leave at the end of the season? The simple fact remains we have no idea how any player would react if trade to the Islanders.

Draft a player and his immediate and only allegiance is to the Islanders. No period of seeing how the Devils or Red Wings handle hockey operations, you're an Islander.

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Old
04-12-2011, 11:16 PM
  #33
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A winger in mid 20's with experience

To Hawks
Isles 1st round pick (5th)

To Isles
LW/RW Troy Brouwer
Hawks 1st round pick (Most likely mid teens)

Young NHL experienced PF winger and our pick for your higher pick

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Old
04-12-2011, 11:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
A winger in mid 20's with experience

To Hawks
Isles 1st round pick (5th)

To Isles
LW/RW Troy Brouwer
Hawks 1st round pick (Most likely mid teens)

Young NHL experienced PF winger and our pick for your higher pick
I'd offer Aaron Ness and a 2nd for Brouwer. What you offered is too much from an Islanders perspective.

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Old
04-12-2011, 11:30 PM
  #35
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I'd offer Aaron Ness and a 2nd for Brouwer. What you offered is too much from an Islanders perspective.
No more defenseman

Hawks have too many dmen

In NHL

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Campbell
Campoli (RFA)
Leddy (2009 1st)

In AHL

Olsen (2009 1st)
Vishnevskiy (2006 1st)
Lalonde (2008 3rd)
Stanton

In NCAA

Lavin
Gleason
Johns
Holl

If Stan Bowman waste's any of our 1st 3 picks (1st + Thrashers and Flames 2nd) on a dman I am gonna be sick

What happened to Ness anyway? Didn't he used to be highly regarded?

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04-12-2011, 11:38 PM
  #36
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If NYI is trading a top-5 pick, it better be for a pre-prime player that projects as good as the players attainable within that top-5 range.

That said, probably won't happen, but this is a message board so...been toying with this idea...

Loui Eriksson. Perhaps Dallas loses Richards, with the ownership questions, a few losing seasons, they commit to a rebuild.

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04-12-2011, 11:51 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
No more defenseman

Hawks have too many dmen

In NHL

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Campbell
Campoli (RFA)
Leddy (2009 1st)

In AHL

Olsen (2009 1st)
Vishnevskiy (2006 1st)
Lalonde (2008 3rd)
Stanton

In NCAA

Lavin
Gleason
Johns
Holl

If Stan Bowman waste's any of our 1st 3 picks (1st + Thrashers and Flames 2nd) on a dman I am gonna be sick

What happened to Ness anyway? Didn't he used to be highly regarded?
Then I would change Ness to Gregoire I guess. Ness might be a good NHL player down the road, but we have a lot of guys ahead of him like Donovan, Kessel, Wishart, and Katic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedIsles View Post
If NYI is trading a top-5 pick, it better be for a pre-prime player that projects as good as the players attainable within that top-5 range.

That said, probably won't happen, but this is a message board so...been toying with this idea...

Loui Eriksson. Perhaps Dallas loses Richards, with the ownership questions, a few losing seasons, they commit to a rebuild.
If Dallas does lose Richards, there's no way they trade Eriksson. He can produce with or without Richards.

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Old
04-13-2011, 12:15 AM
  #38
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Question, Why do people have a ***** for Bogo? Dude isn't very good. Granted hes on ATL, so his stats are gonna be a little ******, but we brought up Hammer as a rookie and his numbers are so much better. I would trade like Blake for Bogo straight up. Thats it. Hes young yes, but our young defensive core looks pretty sick right now. Not worth trading a part of our core for a sub-par defensemen.

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04-13-2011, 12:35 AM
  #39
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Question, Why do people have a ***** for Bogo? Dude isn't very good. Granted hes on ATL, so his stats are gonna be a little ******, but we brought up Hammer as a rookie and his numbers are so much better. I would trade like Blake for Bogo straight up. Thats it. Hes young yes, but our young defensive core looks pretty sick right now. Not worth trading a part of our core for a sub-par defensemen.
People still love his potential

I am not sold on Bogosian's hockey IQ but alot of people see his skill set and believe he can be a #1 dman in NHL

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04-13-2011, 08:55 AM
  #40
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My biggest hope this offseason is that Shea Webber canít come to terms with the Predators and the Isles package the 1st round (5th overall pick), 2nd round pick, Calvin DeHaan in a sign and trade deal for Shea Webber.

Now if my offer isnít deep enough so be it add your necessary pieces the point of this wasnít to have 10 people tell me that Nashville GM would lose his job or whatever other witty comments you can come up with.

My point being that if the Isles can trade the 1st round pick plus non core guys (Tavares, Okposo, Niederitter, Grabner, Hamonic) and land Shea Webber I think the team would quickly jump up the Eastern Conference ranks.

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Old
04-13-2011, 10:02 AM
  #41
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My biggest hope this offseason is that Shea Webber canít come to terms with the Predators and the Isles package the 1st round (5th overall pick), 2nd round pick, Calvin DeHaan in a sign and trade deal for Shea Webber.
Nashville is an odd team. Their team defense is spectacular, goaltending as well, but their offense will be their downfall (not unlike Lemaire's Minnesota teams with Roloson)

Martin Erat was their leading scorer, he had less points than Parenteau
Sergei Kostitsyn led the team with 23 goals, one less than Blake Comeau.

It's a no-name team, in a no-name city (in hockey anyway) - Shea Weber is the closest thing they have to a star player. If they don't get past the first round, there will have to be some changes there. If Weber doesn't want to sign there, the list of teams who want him will start at 29 (and likely extend from there). The price will be very high and I'm not sure the NYI are the team to get into that bidding war.

Knowing that environment of supply/demand, the price the NYI would have to pay would probably include Hamonic, Nino, deHaan, Okposo, #5 overall (I'd guess at least TWO of these if not more)

Nashville would probably want a replacement on defense (of some capacity, NHL caliber, they have Ryan Elllis and Roussel close to NHL ready) and probably a top 6 forward.

Okposo, deHaan and the #5 overall for Weber? Niederreiter, Hamonic and the #5 overall? Even these won't get it done IMO. Nashville would INSIST on a "star" player in return, not 3 potential star players. The Islanders have zero star players, one budding star and a lot of "maybes".

I love the idea of Shea Weber on the Islanders but I believe the price will be too steep for this team at this time.

But I love your approach, getting an established (yet young) star player for a change!

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