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Crawford fired, Gulutzan named head coach

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Old
04-13-2011, 09:06 AM
  #101
Ub the Bub
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Sore losers much? Yeah, personally, with this team I think 95 points is acceptable. Heck, if things made sense we would be down there with Colorado and Edmonton... Our team overperformed for most of the season. Hopefully by the start of next season we'll have the ownership problems sorted out and we'll be able to get a competitive team together, but this season... We should really just be grateful we got close to the playoff...
Seriously, hockey fans are the whiniest people sometimes...

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04-13-2011, 09:21 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Djungelurban View Post
Sore losers much? Yeah, personally, with this team I think 95 points is acceptable. Heck, if things made sense we would be down there with Colorado and Edmonton... Our team overperformed for most of the season. Hopefully by the start of next season we'll have the ownership problems sorted out and we'll be able to get a competitive team together, but this season... We should really just be grateful we got close to the playoff...
Seriously, hockey fans are the whiniest people sometimes...
Just because people picked us to finish at the bottom of the conference doesn't mean the Stars overperformed. I would hazard that many just underestimated the skill level of our forwards and the consistency of Kari Lehtonen. Our defense was questionable for most of the season, and Lehtonen masked a lot of that early on by making huge saves throughout the first half of the season.

You can look at where we ended up as a justification for how the season went, but you also have to look at more than that with regards to coaching. For example, playing Woywitka for ~18 minutes a game, not giving Lehtonen any rest towards the end of the season, not having our best defensive forward out for a face off in the last 5 seconds of a game against Anaheim, giving up late leads or ties consistently over a crucial stretch of games, not being able to close out the season to clinch a playoff spot, etc.

All of those things can be linked to coaching. Crawford did some good things while he was here, but I don't think this was a decision made by a "sore loser."

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04-13-2011, 10:31 AM
  #103
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From SI.com

"We didn't lose the playoffs on the last day," Nieuwendyk said. "Teams earn their way into the playoffs, and we fell short. ... This is something that has been thought about during some of our adverse times and the way we played down the stretch. Playing in the playoffs would've been great, but my thoughts and feelings still would be there."

Nieuwendyk was irked by the way Crawford handled various rough patches. For instance, when injuries hit, the coach resorted to playing his most reliable players more than ever, which may have left them worn out by season's end.

"We have to look at how we involve more people and how we stay fresh during the course of the season," Nieuwendyk said. "Obviously there are personnel issues that we have to address. But, also, how do we sustain a brand of hockey that is up there with the elite teams in the Western Conference?"


Full article here

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04-13-2011, 10:52 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
From SI.com
Nieuwendyk was irked by the way Crawford handled various rough patches. For instance, when injuries hit, the coach resorted to playing his most reliable players more than ever, which may have left them worn out by season's end.
Maybe I'm not understanding this right but how is that a negative for the coach? When teams have injuries they end up having to play there better players more to make up for it right? That qoute to me seems to be directed at there wasn't enough depth more then a coaching problem.

I mean don't get me wrong I didn't like Crawford as the head coach and thought there had to be better options then him but, that statement doesn't to me make a good case against Crawford.

And being upset about players saying 95 points was good enough, yea theres a reason to be pissed about that statment. It kind of shows a lack of intrest to be better "Hey we didn't make the playoffs but we got 95 points thats good enough". It shouldn't be about the number of points if you don't make the playoffs thats not good enough.


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04-13-2011, 11:17 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by HockeyGambit View Post
Maybe I'm not understanding this right but how is that a negative for the coach? When teams have injuries they end up having to play there better players more to make up for it right? That qoute to me seems to be directed at there wasn't enough depth more then a coaching problem.

I mean don't get me wrong I didn't like Crawford as the head coach and thought there had to be better options then him but, that statement doesn't to me make a good case against Crawford.

And being upset about players saying 95 points was good enough, yea theres a reason to be pissed about that statment. It kind of shows a lack of intrest to be better "Hey we didn't make the playoffs but we got 95 points thats good enough". It shouldn't be about the number of points if you don't make the playoffs thats not good enough.
Oh I totally agree. I question either GMJN's reasoning or the journalism behind this story. I pick the former. Anyone who signs a coach with no recent success to a 3-year deal just two days after firing a long-tenured coach who should be totally absolved of any wrong-doing for missing the playoffs in 2008-09, has some issues with reasoning.

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04-13-2011, 11:25 AM
  #106
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The only player that looked worn out to be meas Lethonen. For all the talk of Benn being overplayed he didn't look tired in the last few games to me. When you have injuries I think its normal to run with the bigger guns, especially when you badly need to win. Giving Toby Petersen more icetime isnt going to help the team so I really find it a poor reason to fire a guy. Still, noones going to look back and say "I wish we still had Marc Crawford".

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04-13-2011, 12:00 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
The only player that looked worn out to be meas Lethonen. For all the talk of Benn being overplayed he didn't look tired in the last few games to me. When you have injuries I think its normal to run with the bigger guns, especially when you badly need to win. Giving Toby Petersen more icetime isnt going to help the team so I really find it a poor reason to fire a guy. Still, noones going to look back and say "I wish we still had Marc Crawford".
The true reason, IMO, is the egg that JN took to his face when the "fat guys eating Doritos sitting on their couch posting on message boards" were vindicated when they were proven right about the Crawford-hiring.


Last edited by StarsFan74: 04-13-2011 at 01:11 PM.
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04-13-2011, 12:27 PM
  #108
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It doesn't matter what system the team uses, the players on the current roster aren't big enough or strong enough to win puck battles consistently.

Nieuwendyk mentioned the team needs to get bigger up front and on defense.

I'd be surprised if the team went back to the defensive style first system and those styles don't have success in the playoffs anymore.
Defense and goal tending win you the cup. Offense is purely supplemental come playoff time.

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04-13-2011, 01:13 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by phil7488 View Post
Defense and goal tending win you the cup. Offense is purely supplemental come playoff time.
Are you sure about that?

Name a high end, defensive team that's won a Cup since the lockout.

The teams winning the Cup right now are all balanced teams. They have a high scoring offense with quality defenders. Hell, the goalie hasn't even been as important as it had in the past.

Pure defensive teams win in the regular season and flame out in the playoffs. Other wise Dave Tippet's teams, Nashville, and NJ would be tearing it up in the playoffs the past seasons instead of flaming out early.

The idea that a top goalie and suffocating defense wins the Cup doesn't seem to be true anymore. Vancouver always had top goaltending and good defense. They didn't become the Stanley Cup favorite and the juggernaut they are today until the offense got sorted out.

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04-13-2011, 02:46 PM
  #110
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That SI quote looks like an interpretation more than a direct quote. Staying fresh throughout the season could mean anything from playing Raycroft more, to handling the ambivalence and overconfidence this team faced in Jan and Feb.

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04-13-2011, 02:57 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Djungelurban View Post
We should really just be grateful we got close to the playoff...
And this is what our fanbase and franchise has become....

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04-13-2011, 03:18 PM
  #112
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Again we have confirmation from Heika that Crawford was primarily responsible for the insane D pairs we endured all season:
Not unlike Showalter, Crawford likes to control most things with his team. He was one of the rare coaches who rotated not only the forwards but the defense pairs, and he definitely liked to have a say in all of the decisions.
http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/arch...ch-firing.html

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04-13-2011, 03:26 PM
  #113
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Here a funny quote on the Ticket just now. It was actually Joe Nieuwendyk speaking. It was not just a quote someone read.

Referring to the search for a new coach, he said what's right for Dallas may not be right for Florida. I was in the car, it was during the ticker, and I was honestly not paying a ton of attention until I heard that. Anyway, it's funny to me since Florida's former coach has been mentioned as a possible coach for Dallas.

I highly doubt GM Joe was trying to be cryptic or show his hand. Like I said, I just thought it was funny.

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04-13-2011, 03:41 PM
  #114
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It was some reverse psychology. He's trying to talk the Panthers into hiring Crawford to reduce Crawford's hit on next year's budget.

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04-13-2011, 03:41 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Here a funny quote on the Ticket just now. It was actually Joe Nieuwendyk speaking. It was not just a quote someone read.

Referring to the search for a new coach, he said what's right for Dallas may not be right for Florida. I was in the car, it was during the ticker, and I was honestly not paying a ton of attention until I heard that. Anyway, it's funny to me since Florida's former coach has been mentioned as a possible coach for Dallas.

I highly doubt GM Joe was trying to be cryptic or show his hand. Like I said, I just thought it was funny.
Oh god please please please please hire DeBoer

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04-13-2011, 03:59 PM
  #116
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Heika:

Quote:
The players also had some of the same questions you did about the coaching. Why did Crawford lean so heavily on Kari Lehtonen when Andrew Raycroft seemed like a viable alternative? Why did he favor Jeff Woywitka over Mark Fistric. Why was he constantly juggling lines? Why wasn't Loui Eriksson out there more at the end of games. Crawford had a tough job. There were injury issues, there was the big trade that took away James Neal and shook up the chemistry a little, there were moves made (like Brandon Segal to the minors) that were made simply because of money concerns.

But, when he made a move that didn't work out, it eroded the confidence of the players.

The other problem that Crawford had is that he is an old school coach. He was not going to bond with the players or push many individual motivational buttons. He was going to give them the structure to play, but he left it up to them to find the reason to play. That's not that unusual in this business, but it was different from what the players had seen from Ken Hitchcock or Dave Tippett . The stories of Hitchcock's ability to poke Mike Modano at the right time are legendary, and Tippett got more out of Mike Ribeiro because he knew exactly what buttons to push. Again, that's difference between Buck Showalter and Ron Washington. The players find a different gear for Washington.

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04-13-2011, 05:05 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by HockeyGambit View Post
Maybe I'm not understanding this right but how is that a negative for the coach? When teams have injuries they end up having to play there better players more to make up for it right? That qoute to me seems to be directed at there wasn't enough depth more then a coaching problem.

I mean don't get me wrong I didn't like Crawford as the head coach and thought there had to be better options then him but, that statement doesn't to me make a good case against Crawford.

And being upset about players saying 95 points was good enough, yea theres a reason to be pissed about that statment. It kind of shows a lack of intrest to be better "Hey we didn't make the playoffs but we got 95 points thats good enough". It shouldn't be about the number of points if you don't make the playoffs thats not good enough.
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Oh I totally agree. I question either GMJN's reasoning or the journalism behind this story. I pick the former. Anyone who signs a coach with no recent success to a 3-year deal just two days after firing a long-tenured coach who should be totally absolved of any wrong-doing for missing the playoffs in 2008-09, has some issues with reasoning.
The phrasing of things in the SI article is somewhat different from the way it read in the DMN. I can't get the link for the article to work for me right now, but from Heika's article with extensive quotes from Nieuwendyk, it sounds like Joe was irked by the massive black hole slides that the team went on late in the season - twice. I don't recall reading or hearing an actual quote from Joe that referred directly to ice time for certain players other than he mentioned that the team leaned heavily on Kari late in the season. He felt that when adversity struck, the team didn't rise to meet the challenge. I'm glad he's seeing the same things we were seeing.

The more I hear Nieuwendyk speak on the subject the more I like, now we'll have to see where it goes from here.

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04-13-2011, 05:15 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Are you sure about that?

Name a high end, defensive team that's won a Cup since the lockout.

The teams winning the Cup right now are all balanced teams. They have a high scoring offense with quality defenders. Hell, the goalie hasn't even been as important as it had in the past.

Pure defensive teams win in the regular season and flame out in the playoffs. Other wise Dave Tippet's teams, Nashville, and NJ would be tearing it up in the playoffs the past seasons instead of flaming out early.

The idea that a top goalie and suffocating defense wins the Cup doesn't seem to be true anymore. Vancouver always had top goaltending and good defense. They didn't become the Stanley Cup favorite and the juggernaut they are today until the offense got sorted out.
I agree with your overall point, that truly balanced teams are winning in the playoffs these days, but I disagree somewhat with your Vancouver example. Sure, the emergence of Kesler as a legit goal scorer and point man give them one of the better #2 centers in hockey, but other than his increased scoring they haven't really done much to their offensive attack. The areas that they got better and deeper at were defensive forwards and on defense. Their PK went from 18th in the league to 3rd. Their offense last season vs this season was actually better last year. So yeah, they did get more balanced, but not from the angle you're saying.

Quote:
The players also had some of the same questions you did about the coaching. Why did Crawford lean so heavily on Kari Lehtonen when Andrew Raycroft seemed like a viable alternative? Why did he favor Jeff Woywitka over Mark Fistric. Why was he constantly juggling lines? Why wasn't Loui Eriksson out there more at the end of games. Crawford had a tough job. There were injury issues, there was the big trade that took away James Neal and shook up the chemistry a little, there were moves made (like Brandon Segal to the minors) that were made simply because of money concerns.
Good question. I'm happy that the players also saw what we saw.


Last edited by glovesave_35: 04-13-2011 at 05:24 PM.
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04-13-2011, 06:18 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
Oh god please please please please hire DeBoer
I know not much about DeBoer's coaching skills, but why do you think he's what the Stars want?

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04-13-2011, 06:22 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
The phrasing of things in the SI article is somewhat different from the way it read in the DMN. I can't get the link for the article to work for me right now, but from Heika's article with extensive quotes from Nieuwendyk, it sounds like Joe was irked by the massive black hole slides that the team went on late in the season - twice. I don't recall reading or hearing an actual quote from Joe that referred directly to ice time for certain players other than he mentioned that the team leaned heavily on Kari late in the season. He felt that when adversity struck, the team didn't rise to meet the challenge. I'm glad he's seeing the same things we were seeing.

The more I hear Nieuwendyk speak on the subject the more I like, now we'll have to see where it goes from here.
What's in the SI article is verbatim in the TSN article on Crawford's firing.

I'm glad GMJN realizes the situation he's in now, but he's responsible for it in the first place. Unless the lenders allow him some room, there's nothing much we can expect.


Last edited by StarsFan74: 04-13-2011 at 06:30 PM.
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04-13-2011, 06:30 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
What's in the SI article is verbatim in the TSN article on Crawford's firing.
Whatever the case, the more damning part (that you originally bolded) was not a quote from Nieuwendyk it was something attributed to him by the author(s) of the article.

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04-13-2011, 06:32 PM
  #122
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Ya the bolded part was an opinion of the author, not a quote.

I find it interesting though that so many people were unhappy with Craw than we were let on. Dallas runs a good job keeping things quiet until they're ready for it to get out. Either that or everyone was saving their opinions until after the fact.

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04-13-2011, 06:52 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
I know not much about DeBoer's coaching skills, but why do you think he's what the Stars want?
As I've said before, hes a work ethic coach. Dallas needed that badly. He usually adapts his style to the team, as he coached diffrently in Kitchener than Florida.

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04-13-2011, 06:59 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by UnholyPrince View Post

I find it interesting though that so many people were unhappy with Craw than we were let on. Dallas runs a good job keeping things quiet until they're ready for it to get out. Either that or everyone was saving their opinions until after the fact.
That's simply just not wanting to stir up controversy mid season.

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04-13-2011, 06:59 PM
  #125
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“One more win and we’re in the playoffs, and you also have to realize that if you don’t make the playoffs that’s kind of a no-no in our business,” Crawford said Wednesday, one day after Stars GM Joe Nieuwendyk relieved him of his head coaching duties. “The tough one is two more wins, we’d be home ice and I might be coach of the year.
http://espn.go.com/blog/DallasStars/...-to-next-level

No. Just no.

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