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Old
04-15-2011, 03:56 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Okay, this is not unexpected. Does anyone think the NHL should be looking at the Demers hit as well?
Yep. The problem is that it looks to be a direct result of poor officiating in the first place. The NHL hates to admit that the officials let the game get away from them.

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04-15-2011, 03:57 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
BS.

If the league felt he targeted the head and it was dirty he should have gotten more.

If the league felt it was a an unfortunate hockey play he should have gotten zero.

I hate this constant middle of the road crap. If they want head-checking out than grow some balls when making a suspension. 1 game is not a deterrent.

It should have been 2-4 games, or 0 games. 1 game is a chicken**** suspension that appeases everyone except for the players who get hit in the head.
Dirty and intent are not really the issue. What is indisputable is it was a hit from behind and his forearm went to the head delivering a dangerous blow. In the regular season its probably 2-4 games. I think Stoll's lack of history of cheap play goes into it only being a one game. Also the fact the Sharks wont have a starting player in on Saturday go into the thinking I believe (others were taking his shifts in practice this morning.)

I do agree that 1 game is not much of a deterrent for a 4th liner, but one game for a top player is huge in the playoffs. A 4th liner taking out a top player would have gotten more than a single game. IMO its fair discipline, though I don't think White will agree this morning.

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04-15-2011, 03:58 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SLang View Post
Not at all. But it's possible that he might feel better the next day than he thought he might, for sure. And if the Sharks felt the Kings might lose their best face-off man to suspension, they certainly would not put White on the ice today pending the decision.

Look, I'm bored, and conspiracy theories are fun. Don't read too much into it....

Lemme add some of these....


You needed two more.

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04-15-2011, 04:00 PM
  #104
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Seems reasonable. If it was a Sharks player who hit one of our guys like that, I would be pissed if he didn't get a game.

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04-15-2011, 04:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
Dirty and intent are not really the issue. What is indisputable is it was a hit from behind and his forearm went to the head delivering a dangerous blow. In the regular season its probably 2-4 games. I think Stoll's lack of history of cheap play goes into it only being a one game. Also the fact the Sharks wont have a starting player in on Saturday go into the thinking I believe (others were taking his shifts in practice this morning.)

I do agree that 1 game is not much of a deterrent for a 4th liner, but one game for a top player is huge in the playoffs. A 4th liner taking out a top player would have gotten more than a single game. IMO its fair discipline, though I don't think White will agree this morning.
I don't think whether they are a 4th liner or a top 6 player delivering the hit should come into play one bit.

All my point was is the league needed to take a stand, and they chickened out. If it's a headshot, then give him a couple games. Every other day they talk about being tough on headshots. If it isn't deemed a headhsot then he shouldn't have been suspended at all. Do you think Stoll gets suspended is White doesn't stumble off the ice? I doubt it.

In regards to Stoll's suspension history, is it really fair that players without a history get a "free run" at someone?

I am just disappointed the league refused to make a stand one way or the other in regards to a blow to the head. Was it dirty?...was it unfortunate?

My opinion is that this is a moot point if White finishes his shift. It's a shame you actually have to hurt someone to get noticed.

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04-15-2011, 04:14 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by slocal View Post
Yep. The problem is that it looks to be a direct result of poor officiating in the first place. The NHL hates to admit that the officials let the game get away from them.
This whole idea that the NHL wants to shed its "violence" stigma starts with simple and effective officiating. If there was a penalty on that play, would Ben Eager have fought as soon as the puck dropped? Probably not, the Sharks would be too busy worrying about the PP.

Imagine if the Sharks wouldn't have cooled off in the second period? Just think of how ugly this game could have become. Perhaps in a heightened state of emotion someone like Clowe or Eager would have done something regrettable to a Kings player.

And where would it have started? The hit for sure, but more so in my opinion from bad officiating.

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04-15-2011, 04:20 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by param View Post
This whole idea that the NHL wants to shed its "violence" stigma starts with simple and effective officiating. If there was a penalty on that play, would Ben Eager have fought as soon as the puck dropped? Probably not, the Sharks would be too busy worrying about the PP.

Imagine if the Sharks wouldn't have cooled off in the second period? Just think of how ugly this game could have become. Perhaps in a heightened state of emotion someone like Clowe or Eager would have done something regrettable to a Kings player.

And where would it have started? The hit for sure, but more so in my opinion from bad officiating.
Exactly. It's a spiral of decline set in motion by that missed call.

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04-15-2011, 04:28 PM
  #108
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DL is being way too conservative. Call up Schenn...stoll getting suspended is even more proof we need this kid right now. no guts no glory

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04-15-2011, 04:30 PM
  #109
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EDIT: I'll start a new thread about the lines since it'll generate a bunch of non-suspension related discussion.

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04-15-2011, 05:19 PM
  #110
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I was okay with the Stoll suspension until I saw a tweet about Murray being angry about the Demers hit. I decided to go look it up and just wow. They showed the Stoll hit a bunch of times on the Versus broadcast, but didn't show that one.

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04-15-2011, 05:30 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheap1nt View Post
I was okay with the Stoll suspension until I saw a tweet about Murray being angry about the Demers hit. I decided to go look it up and just wow. They showed the Stoll hit a bunch of times on the Versus broadcast, but didn't show that one.
A clear message got sent to the rest of the league today. Sadly that message is this; "A bad decision on a players part is unacceptable if an injury results, however a blatant attempt to injure another player is fine as long as the player isn't injured."

When you take into account that the Demers hit happens after the Stoll hit in the game, it's pretty much as textbook retaliation as you can get.

Still the worst part of all of this is the fact that both hits were without a doubt at the very least 5 minute penalties, and neither was called for anything at all... Which leads me to wonder exactly what game the ref's were watching and why they are even on the ice at all...

It's stuff like this and the Hossa "goal" from a few weeks ago that make me wish I wasn't a fan of this game and frankly I'm embarassed to be a fan of the NHL right now

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04-15-2011, 05:32 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheap1nt View Post
I was okay with the Stoll suspension until I saw a tweet about Murray being angry about the Demers hit. I decided to go look it up and just wow. They showed the Stoll hit a bunch of times on the Versus broadcast, but didn't show that one.
Ahh, but the question is, would Demers have even tried to make that hit if:

1) The hit on White hadn't gone unpunished, which

2) Clearly established a precedent in the game that head-shots weren't going to be called?

3) Made some Sharks players feel that they had to "police" the game themselves?

If Stoll had gotten the 3 game suspension or so he deserved I would have been OK (not happy of course) as a Sharks fan to see Demers get a game or two himself.

But I think the Stoll hit and the refs inaction sent a clear message that plays like that were acceptable, and that Demers may have felt free to take some "liberties" himself out a sense of revenge for the hit on White.

For me, it all goes back to the terrible officiating and to Colin Campell's random wheel of injustice when it comes to supplemental discipline.

I actually like the Kings (except when they face the Sharks) and you have no idea how much I would love to have Brown on the Sharks, but I will not be at all surprised to see the Sharks come out with a lot of "edge" tomorrow and for someone like Clowe to get a game misconduct and 3-game suspension for something MUCH less than what Stoll did. And it's all going to go back to the players feeling the need to "police" the game since the refs wouldn't.

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04-15-2011, 05:43 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Ahh, but the question is, would Demers have even tried to make that hit if:

1) The hit on White hadn't gone unpunished, which

2) Clearly established a precedent in the game that head-shots weren't going to be called?

3) Made some Sharks players feel that they had to "police" the game themselves?

If Stoll had gotten the 3 game suspension or so he deserved I would have been OK (not happy of course) as a Sharks fan to see Demers get a game or two himself.

But I think the Stoll hit and the refs inaction sent a clear message that plays like that were acceptable, and that Demers may have felt free to take some "liberties" himself out a sense of revenge for the hit on White.

For me, it all goes back to the terrible officiating and to Colin Campell's random wheel of injustice when it comes to supplemental discipline.

I actually like the Kings (except when they face the Sharks) and you have no idea how much I would love to have Brown on the Sharks, but I will not be at all surprised to see the Sharks come out with a lot of "edge" tomorrow and for someone like Clowe to get a game misconduct and 3-game suspension for something MUCH less than what Stoll did. And it's all going to go back to the players feeling the need to "police" the game since the refs wouldn't.
I agree with just about everything you said! But Demers deserves at least the same Stoll got if not more for it being an intentional shot to the head. I understand his reasoning for doing what he did, but the fact that it was pre-meditated makes it far worse than the Stoll hit. Thing is by suspending both players the NHL could have sent the message that head-hunting like that on both hits won't be tolerated and rectify the mistakes made by the officials last night... It didn't. And now the series may be full of crap like this instead of an exciting playoff series between division rivals.

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04-15-2011, 05:45 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheap1nt View Post
I was okay with the Stoll suspension until I saw a tweet about Murray being angry about the Demers hit. I decided to go look it up and just wow. They showed the Stoll hit a bunch of times on the Versus broadcast, but didn't show that one.
That's because that was a CSN Bay Area production = the Sharks broadcast that Versus was simulcasting.

It's not surprising that the Sharks crew would broadcast replays of the Stoll hit a dozen times, but gloss right over the Demers hit.

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04-15-2011, 05:59 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by DocWest View Post
Seems reasonable. If it was a Sharks player who hit one of our guys like that, I would be pissed if he didn't get a game.
They did and you should be pissed, check out Demer's head shot on Smyth. IF they are gonna call out Stoll then they absolutely should have called him for a game too. The guy left his feet and clearly targeted Smyth's head, if Stoll's was worthy of a game then Demer's was worthy of two.

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04-15-2011, 06:01 PM
  #116
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As soon as I saw the hit I knew he'd get a few games. Who else would get the call if it isn't Schenn?

Elkins? Clune?
The hit should have been a 2-minute boarding call. Nothing more.

This suspension is stupid.

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04-15-2011, 06:04 PM
  #117
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Stoll deserve the game but since he is not a repeat offender it makes sense. I think Zeiler coming up will make it interesting. I found Stoll's hit on youtube but can't find Smyths.

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04-15-2011, 06:06 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
My opinion is that this is a moot point if White finishes his shift. It's a shame you actually have to hurt someone to get noticed.
This. I'm tired of the reactionary bull coming from the league.

I'm also pissed at the inconsistency of it all.

Chara gets zero games for his hit on MaxPac, and Stoll get one for that?

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04-15-2011, 06:09 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Ahh, but the question is, would Demers have even tried to make that hit if:

1) The hit on White hadn't gone unpunished, which

2) Clearly established a precedent in the game that head-shots weren't going to be called?

3) Made some Sharks players feel that they had to "police" the game themselves?

If Stoll had gotten the 3 game suspension or so he deserved I would have been OK (not happy of course) as a Sharks fan to see Demers get a game or two himself.

But I think the Stoll hit and the refs inaction sent a clear message that plays like that were acceptable, and that Demers may have felt free to take some "liberties" himself out a sense of revenge for the hit on White.

For me, it all goes back to the terrible officiating and to Colin Campell's random wheel of injustice when it comes to supplemental discipline.

I actually like the Kings (except when they face the Sharks) and you have no idea how much I would love to have Brown on the Sharks, but I will not be at all surprised to see the Sharks come out with a lot of "edge" tomorrow and for someone like Clowe to get a game misconduct and 3-game suspension for something MUCH less than what Stoll did. And it's all going to go back to the players feeling the need to "police" the game since the refs wouldn't.
This is ridiculous. Demers went after Smyth's head, irregardless of the circumstances. Stop trying to make excuses for it.

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04-15-2011, 06:17 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
That's because that was a CSN Bay Area production = the Sharks broadcast that Versus was simulcasting.

It's not surprising that the Sharks crew would broadcast replays of the Stoll hit a dozen times, but gloss right over the Demers hit.
Watch it as many times as you want here:






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04-15-2011, 06:17 PM
  #121
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I don't usually call and cry for suspensions, but that play by Demers could have hurt Smyth. If he actually would have hurt Smyth he would be gone for the series. It was a dirty attempt. The result matters though and Smyth got straight up. Not worth a suspension as it stood but could've been a bad one. Perhaps the objective of bringing Zeiler up is to make Demers pay for that and we know Zeiler can throw some dirty hits. Who knows. Tomorrow might be an ugly game.

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04-15-2011, 06:19 PM
  #122
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This is ridiculous. Demers went after Smyth's head, irregardless of the circumstances. Stop trying to make excuses for it.
I'm not making excuses for it. Demers went after Smyth's head. Stoll went after White's head, but did it from behind. To me, that makes Stoll's worse. If Stoll gets 1 game, Demers should get nothing. If Stoll got 2, I would have been fine with Demer's getting 1.

The point is that Smyth could see Demers coming and was at least aware of the hit. White wasn't. Both were deliberate hits to head. But to suggest that what Demers did was in any way equivalent (or even worse as TM did) is just bonkers.

My point was simply that if Stoll had not gone unpunished it's very likely that Demers never even makes the attempt.

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04-15-2011, 06:26 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
I'm not making excuses for it. Demers went after Smyth's head. Stoll went after White's head, but did it from behind. To me, that makes Stoll's worse. If Stoll gets 1 game, Demers should get nothing. If Stoll got 2, I would have been fine with Demer's getting 1.
So Stoll hits a guy a foot from the boards, not even with much force, but just an awkward situation, and that is worse then Demers launching himself in full Superman mode at Smyth's head?

By the way, can you find ANY history of a ht from behind bringing a more severe penalty than a hit from the front? Or are you just pulling your opinions out of your ass?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
The point is that Smyth could see Demers coming and was at least aware of the hit. White wasn't. Both were deliberate hits to head. But to suggest that what Demers did was in any way equivalent (or even worse as TM did) is just bonkers.
Yeah I'm sure Smyth knew Demers was gonna jump at his head. Give me a break.

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My point was simply that if Stoll had not gone unpunished it's very likely that Demers never even makes the attempt.
I thought you weren't gonna make excuses.

The fact is that Demers' hit was more violent than Smyth's yet he gets away with it. there is no doubt that he went for Smyth's head, and the league turns a blind eye to that, but suspends L.A.'s de facto #1 center instead.

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04-15-2011, 06:32 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
I don't usually call and cry for suspensions, but that play by Demers could have hurt Smyth. If he actually would have hurt Smyth he would be gone for the series. It was a dirty attempt. The result matters though and Smyth got straight up. Not worth a suspension as it stood but could've been a bad one. Perhaps the objective of bringing Zeiler up is to make Demers pay for that and we know Zeiler can throw some dirty hits. Who knows. Tomorrow might be an ugly game.
What kind of logic is that? Results should never matter. Intent was to injury by delivering a blow to the head = suspension... Very black and white. Both hits were dirty, targeted the same area of the body, so either both are suspension worthy or both aren't, simple as that. The retalitory nature of the Demers hit makes it worse in my eyes but that may just be me.

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04-15-2011, 06:32 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
I'm not making excuses for it. Demers went after Smyth's head. Stoll went after White's head, but did it from behind. To me, that makes Stoll's worse. If Stoll gets 1 game, Demers should get nothing. If Stoll got 2, I would have been fine with Demer's getting 1.

The point is that Smyth could see Demers coming and was at least aware of the hit. White wasn't. Both were deliberate hits to head. But to suggest that what Demers did was in any way equivalent (or even worse as TM did) is just bonkers.

My point was simply that if Stoll had not gone unpunished it's very likely that Demers never even makes the attempt.
Almost right Vassa.

Here is the thing though, while Stoll's hit was from behind deserving his 1 game Demers head shot was intentional *and* retaliatory making it of even more punitive value. Stoll hit White in the head from behind no doubt but it wasn't an intentional hit nor was it retaliatory. The NHL which truly is governed by morons says that retaliatory actions are more severe then those that happen as a natural part of the play due to their intentional nature.

Demers is a human pile of fecal matter for what he did and deserves to have the same happen to him, let the cards fall where they may is what some of us are arguing but, if we do target him then we are acting deliberately and with intent or in a retaliatory manner making what we would do be as bad as what Demers did.

This would turn into an escalation of force until a Bertuzzi incident would happen if the league didn't say that they took this stance. Now if they acted on this supposed stance then the NHL would actually be something but while they talk a good game they do nothing but show how terrible they are at enforcing their own rules with any real accountability.

If what Demers did was acceptable or not as severe as what Stoll did when our Demers, our worthless pile of human fecal matter does to Heatley what Demers did to Smyth remember that you have given away your rights to say a word about it.

See where I am going?

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