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Stoll Suspended 1 Game

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Old
04-15-2011, 07:55 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
What kind of logic is that? Results should never matter. Intent was to injury by delivering a blow to the head = suspension... Very black and white. Both hits were dirty, targeted the same area of the body, so either both are suspension worthy or both aren't, simple as that. The retalitory nature of the Demers hit makes it worse in my eyes but that may just be me.
Result does matter unless we're talking about repeat offenders. If not for the result there's no way Stoll deserved a suspension but many of us agree that he should have received a game. As far as I know Demers is not a repeat offender, and in the end he didn't hurt Smyth.

Intent matters too but he didn't hurt him. It's a tough area. Stoll actually hurt the guy and Demers did not.

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04-15-2011, 08:00 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Result does matter unless we're talking about repeat offenders. If not for the result there's no way Stoll deserved a suspension but many of us agree that he should have received a game. As far as I know Demers is not a repeat offender, and in the end he didn't hurt Smyth.

Intent matters too but he didn't hurt him. It's a tough area. Stoll actually hurt the guy and Demers did not.
That's because Demers' arms are jello. Haven't you seen him punch?


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04-15-2011, 08:01 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post

Intent matters too but he didn't hurt him. It's a tough area. Stoll actually hurt the guy and Demers did not.

Jumping elbow first into someone head at full speed doesn't exactly sound legal.

Sounds like MMA. At least they know someones trying to knock them out.

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04-15-2011, 08:05 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Result does matter unless we're talking about repeat offenders. If not for the result there's no way Stoll deserved a suspension but many of us agree that he should have received a game. As far as I know Demers is not a repeat offender, and in the end he didn't hurt Smyth.

Intent matters too but he didn't hurt him. It's a tough area. Stoll actually hurt the guy and Demers did not.
This is the issue, if Smyth got hurt I'm sure it would be a different story.

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04-15-2011, 08:09 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Almost right Vassa.

Here is the thing though, while Stoll's hit was from behind deserving his 1 game Demers head shot was intentional *and* retaliatory making it of even more punitive value. Stoll hit White in the head from behind no doubt but it wasn't an intentional hit nor was it retaliatory. The NHL which truly is governed by morons says that retaliatory actions are more severe then those that happen as a natural part of the play due to their intentional nature.

Demers is a human pile of fecal matter for what he did and deserves to have the same happen to him, let the cards fall where they may is what some of us are arguing but, if we do target him then we are acting deliberately and with intent or in a retaliatory manner making what we would do be as bad as what Demers did.

This would turn into an escalation of force until a Bertuzzi incident would happen if the league didn't say that they took this stance. Now if they acted on this supposed stance then the NHL would actually be something but while they talk a good game they do nothing but show how terrible they are at enforcing their own rules with any real accountability.

If what Demers did was acceptable or not as severe as what Stoll did when our Demers, our worthless pile of human fecal matter does to Heatley what Demers did to Smyth remember that you have given away your rights to say a word about it.

See where I am going?
Well, we disagree on Stoll's hit. To me that WAS intentional. I don't see how you can watch the video and not think it was. It WAS a hit to head. It WAS done with considerably more force than was necessary to just go for the puck. So right there we have a major disagreement. You think it was accidental, I think it was not just deliberate, it was a malicious attempt to injure.

That wasn't a low speed hit. He had sufficient time to pull up, yet didn't. He deliberately (from what I saw) put his elbow to pack of White's head when he hit, AND slammed his elbow into the back of White's neck once White was against the boards. That is where we have our different views of the severity.

So yeah, Demers sure looked like he was intending to injure. But so did Stoll. Your point about Bertuzzi is just my point. Stoll (in my opinion) initiated with an extremely dirty play that was clearly (again, IMO) an attempt to injure. And he went completely unpunished. The Sharks having learned in the past that a failure to dissuade such actions leads to playoff losses, attempted (again, in my opinion) to send a message by targeting an LA player for a similar hit (if not quite as bad IMO). The league failed to police the game, so the players felt they had to.

My only complaint, quite honestly, is that if Demers was attempting to send a message he did it to the wrong guy. He should have targeted Stoll, Williams, Doughty, or Johnson.

And yes, I fully understand that these situations lead to the MAD scenario (Mutually Assured Destruction for those wondering). And yes, I'm fully willing to accept that in that case some players are going to get injured and the Sharks will lose in the next round. IMO, if a team chooses the play dirty (like Stoll did IMO, and clearly with Murray's encouragement), then the only way to dissuade that sort of play in the future is to make it so unpalatable to the teams, the players, and the league that all agree to change the standard and punish illegal hits SEVERELY.

So go ahead, target Demers. And then hopefully Doug Murray targets Doughty and puts him out for the next year. Then Smyth can respond by targeting Couture, etc, etc, etc. And soon, both teams are rebuilding for the next 5 years again and the careers of a number of fine young players are over prematurely.

Just remember, the way we got to that situation was because Jared Stoll decided that a blindside HARD hit to the back of the head of a player who had no idea he was coming was an acceptable way to play. Stoll attempted to seriously injure another player and quite probably ended his playoffs AND very possibly cost an impending UFA who was looking for a payday this coming year millions of dollars. So as you said, let the cards lay where they may. Just make sure you think about how other people perceive the same play you see as "innocent". They have a completely different view of it, and that way Armageddon lies.

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04-15-2011, 09:39 PM
  #131
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ive come to this thread to really give credit to kings fans. i am active in the sharks board a lot with them being my hometown team. i must say its quite impressive to see the majority of fans admitting that stoll deserves a suspension and he got off easy with only 1 game.

now i have another question, i see a hit made by demers being mentioned. does anybody have video of the hit or the time in the game it happened. i dont remember the hit but i can look since i have the game still on dvr.

anybody have video showing where the ref was located during stolls hit?

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04-15-2011, 09:46 PM
  #132
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I think Sharks fans can stay the eff out of our threads now. Forget this nice ****.

Hextall said it all...Stoll did his best to avoid and Demers tried to decapitate Smyth.

It's BS and I am tired of Shark fan opinions.

Time for being nice is over.

Who is with me?

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04-15-2011, 09:49 PM
  #133
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We aren't going to be like that. As long as they are cordial and post within the rules they are welcome just like any other poster.

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Old
04-15-2011, 09:57 PM
  #134
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They can be nice all they want....but the smugness flying about is obvious.



More smiley than sarcastic.

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04-15-2011, 09:58 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Well, we disagree on Stoll's hit. To me that WAS intentional. I don't see how you can watch the video and not think it was. It WAS a hit to head. It WAS done with considerably more force than was necessary to just go for the puck. So right there we have a major disagreement. You think it was accidental, I think it was not just deliberate, it was a malicious attempt to injure.

That wasn't a low speed hit. He had sufficient time to pull up, yet didn't. He deliberately (from what I saw) put his elbow to pack of White's head when he hit, AND slammed his elbow into the back of White's neck once White was against the boards. That is where we have our different views of the severity.

So yeah, Demers sure looked like he was intending to injure. But so did Stoll. Your point about Bertuzzi is just my point. Stoll (in my opinion) initiated with an extremely dirty play that was clearly (again, IMO) an attempt to injure. And he went completely unpunished. The Sharks having learned in the past that a failure to dissuade such actions leads to playoff losses, attempted (again, in my opinion) to send a message by targeting an LA player for a similar hit (if not quite as bad IMO). The league failed to police the game, so the players felt they had to.

My only complaint, quite honestly, is that if Demers was attempting to send a message he did it to the wrong guy. He should have targeted Stoll, Williams, Doughty, or Johnson.

And yes, I fully understand that these situations lead to the MAD scenario (Mutually Assured Destruction for those wondering). And yes, I'm fully willing to accept that in that case some players are going to get injured and the Sharks will lose in the next round. IMO, if a team chooses the play dirty (like Stoll did IMO, and clearly with Murray's encouragement), then the only way to dissuade that sort of play in the future is to make it so unpalatable to the teams, the players, and the league that all agree to change the standard and punish illegal hits SEVERELY.

So go ahead, target Demers. And then hopefully Doug Murray targets Doughty and puts him out for the next year. Then Smyth can respond by targeting Couture, etc, etc, etc. And soon, both teams are rebuilding for the next 5 years again and the careers of a number of fine young players are over prematurely.

Just remember, the way we got to that situation was because Jared Stoll decided that a blindside HARD hit to the back of the head of a player who had no idea he was coming was an acceptable way to play. Stoll attempted to seriously injure another player and quite probably ended his playoffs AND very possibly cost an impending UFA who was looking for a payday this coming year millions of dollars. So as you said, let the cards lay where they may. Just make sure you think about how other people perceive the same play you see as "innocent". They have a completely different view of it, and that way Armageddon lies.
We're going to have to disagree. I don't think there was any malice on Stoll's part. That's not his style of play. Stoll has no reason to go for White's head either. I think this was just a case of him hitting the guy ina vulnerable position, and just a brain fart by Stoll.

With that said, there is no way in my mind that Stoll's hit is worse than Demers'. Demers was malicious, full of intent, and retaliatory.

I am disappointed in the NHL brass for suspending Stoll and not Demers.

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04-15-2011, 10:00 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by yadadaiholla View Post
ive come to this thread to really give credit to kings fans. i am active in the sharks board a lot with them being my hometown team. i must say its quite impressive to see the majority of fans admitting that stoll deserves a suspension and he got off easy with only 1 game.

now i have another question, i see a hit made by demers being mentioned. does anybody have video of the hit or the time in the game it happened. i dont remember the hit but i can look since i have the game still on dvr.

anybody have video showing where the ref was located during stolls hit?
Previous page.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=120

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04-15-2011, 10:01 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Well, we disagree on Stoll's hit. To me that WAS intentional. I don't see how you can watch the video and not think it was. It WAS a hit to head. It WAS done with considerably more force than was necessary to just go for the puck. So right there we have a major disagreement. You think it was accidental, I think it was not just deliberate, it was a malicious attempt to injure.

That wasn't a low speed hit. He had sufficient time to pull up, yet didn't. He deliberately (from what I saw) put his elbow to pack of White's head when he hit, AND slammed his elbow into the back of White's neck once White was against the boards. That is where we have our different views of the severity.

So yeah, Demers sure looked like he was intending to injure. But so did Stoll. Your point about Bertuzzi is just my point. Stoll (in my opinion) initiated with an extremely dirty play that was clearly (again, IMO) an attempt to injure. And he went completely unpunished. The Sharks having learned in the past that a failure to dissuade such actions leads to playoff losses, attempted (again, in my opinion) to send a message by targeting an LA player for a similar hit (if not quite as bad IMO). The league failed to police the game, so the players felt they had to.

My only complaint, quite honestly, is that if Demers was attempting to send a message he did it to the wrong guy. He should have targeted Stoll, Williams, Doughty, or Johnson.

And yes, I fully understand that these situations lead to the MAD scenario (Mutually Assured Destruction for those wondering). And yes, I'm fully willing to accept that in that case some players are going to get injured and the Sharks will lose in the next round. IMO, if a team chooses the play dirty (like Stoll did IMO, and clearly with Murray's encouragement), then the only way to dissuade that sort of play in the future is to make it so unpalatable to the teams, the players, and the league that all agree to change the standard and punish illegal hits SEVERELY.

So go ahead, target Demers. And then hopefully Doug Murray targets Doughty and puts him out for the next year. Then Smyth can respond by targeting Couture, etc, etc, etc. And soon, both teams are rebuilding for the next 5 years again and the careers of a number of fine young players are over prematurely.

Just remember, the way we got to that situation was because Jared Stoll decided that a blindside HARD hit to the back of the head of a player who had no idea he was coming was an acceptable way to play. Stoll attempted to seriously injure another player and quite probably ended his playoffs AND very possibly cost an impending UFA who was looking for a payday this coming year millions of dollars. So as you said, let the cards lay where they may. Just make sure you think about how other people perceive the same play you see as "innocent". They have a completely different view of it, and that way Armageddon lies.
nm...

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Old
04-15-2011, 11:10 PM
  #138
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I actually think Cambell was light on this one given that the Kings are already down a scorer among the fact that Stoll also does NOT throw dirty hits in order to specifically hurt the opposition.

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04-16-2011, 10:25 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by DocWest View Post
This is the issue, if Smyth got hurt I'm sure it would be a different story.
Exactly, which goes back to it being a BS call by the league to suspend one and not the other. They are saying it's ok to throw illegal hits as long as the other guy doesn't get hurt... Which is a very dangerous message to send two teams when they are locked into playing eachother in at least three more games. Especially if the reason this rule is in place is as the league says to protect the players. The refs let game 1 get out of hand with the no-calls, and the league had a chance to correct that mistake and get the focus back on the hockey for game 2. It didn't and now we are in a position where I'm personally hoping no one gets seriously hurt the rest of this series...

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04-16-2011, 10:56 AM
  #140
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Exactly, which goes back to it being a BS call by the league to suspend one and not the other. They are saying it's ok to throw illegal hits as long as the other guy doesn't get hurt... Which is a very dangerous message to send two teams when they are locked into playing eachother in at least three more games. Especially if the reason this rule is in place is as the league says to protect the players. The refs let game 1 get out of hand with the no-calls, and the league had a chance to correct that mistake and get the focus back on the hockey for game 2. It didn't and now we are in a position where I'm personally hoping no one gets seriously hurt the rest of this series...
Expecting, as a King fan, anything approaching equal justice from Toronto (after DL's blast) is like trying to dig a hole to china with a popsicle stick: Its just aint gonna happen.

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04-16-2011, 01:24 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Vaasa View Post
Well, we disagree on Stoll's hit. To me that WAS intentional. I don't see how you can watch the video and not think it was. It WAS a hit to head. It WAS done with considerably more force than was necessary to just go for the puck. So right there we have a major disagreement. You think it was accidental, I think it was not just deliberate, it was a malicious attempt to injure.

That wasn't a low speed hit. He had sufficient time to pull up, yet didn't. He deliberately (from what I saw) put his elbow to pack of White's head when he hit, AND slammed his elbow into the back of White's neck once White was against the boards. That is where we have our different views of the severity.

So yeah, Demers sure looked like he was intending to injure. But so did Stoll. Your point about Bertuzzi is just my point. Stoll (in my opinion) initiated with an extremely dirty play that was clearly (again, IMO) an attempt to injure. And he went completely unpunished. The Sharks having learned in the past that a failure to dissuade such actions leads to playoff losses, attempted (again, in my opinion) to send a message by targeting an LA player for a similar hit (if not quite as bad IMO). The league failed to police the game, so the players felt they had to.

My only complaint, quite honestly, is that if Demers was attempting to send a message he did it to the wrong guy. He should have targeted Stoll, Williams, Doughty, or Johnson.

And yes, I fully understand that these situations lead to the MAD scenario (Mutually Assured Destruction for those wondering). And yes, I'm fully willing to accept that in that case some players are going to get injured and the Sharks will lose in the next round. IMO, if a team chooses the play dirty (like Stoll did IMO, and clearly with Murray's encouragement), then the only way to dissuade that sort of play in the future is to make it so unpalatable to the teams, the players, and the league that all agree to change the standard and punish illegal hits SEVERELY.

So go ahead, target Demers. And then hopefully Doug Murray targets Doughty and puts him out for the next year. Then Smyth can respond by targeting Couture, etc, etc, etc. And soon, both teams are rebuilding for the next 5 years again and the careers of a number of fine young players are over prematurely.

Just remember, the way we got to that situation was because Jared Stoll decided that a blindside HARD hit to the back of the head of a player who had no idea he was coming was an acceptable way to play. Stoll attempted to seriously injure another player and quite probably ended his playoffs AND very possibly cost an impending UFA who was looking for a payday this coming year millions of dollars. So as you said, let the cards lay where they may. Just make sure you think about how other people perceive the same play you see as "innocent". They have a completely different view of it, and that way Armageddon lies.
You missed my entire point and focused on a meaningless aspect of this debate.


Stoll deserves his game suspension. I have said that as have others, whether it was intentional isn't part of the discussion, he did what he did and got a fitting punishment.

Now to the actual point, Demers DID AS A RETALIATORY ATTACK INTENTIONALLY TARGET ANOTHER PLAYER AND RECEIVED NOTHING FOR HIS ACTIONS.

That is the point of the debate. That is what the league has determined to be of a greater potential problem than what Stoll has done *because* of its ability to cause an escalation of force scenario where what I outlined in making my Bertuzzi incident statement should have been easy enough to understand.

I am saying that Demers act was absolutely with intent, that cannot even come close to being argued otherwise and was intentionally retaliatory in its nature and in that he absolutely should have been given at least his one game suspension *because not punishing him is what leads to the potential of an escalation of force incident*, period.

Other than that let me ask you something, so if what Stoll did deserved his 1 game suspension as you and many if not most Kings fans agree then how can you say that what Demer's did isn't worthy of at least the same amount of punishment?


Oh and in no way did I ever say that Stoll's hit was an "innocent" thing. What he did was wrong and deserved his 1 game suspension. It can be argued that he didn't intend to injure White as much as it could be argued that he did but in the end his actions caused White to take a hit face first into the boards and that has to be punished regardless of intent. Stoll deserved his one game.

Show me where in my previous post where I said anything about him being *innocent*.

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04-16-2011, 04:35 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yadadaiholla View Post
ive come to this thread to really give credit to kings fans. i am active in the sharks board a lot with them being my hometown team. i must say its quite impressive to see the majority of fans admitting that stoll deserves a suspension and he got off easy with only 1 game.

now i have another question, i see a hit made by demers being mentioned. does anybody have video of the hit or the time in the game it happened. i dont remember the hit but i can look since i have the game still on dvr.

anybody have video showing where the ref was located during stolls hit?

Thanks and my opinion is that everyone, even during the heat of the playoffs is pretty cool around here. We all get peeved and lose it a bit once in awhile but for the most part everyone stays cool headed.

I like the all are welcome attitude and think that we are good at it here on the Kings board for certain. Its a great way to keep things in perspective and also there is nothing wrong with a good rib poking once in awhile.

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04-16-2011, 06:39 PM
  #143
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I've been looking for this for a while. It was broadcast today and I got a quick video. A lot of debate was based on Stoll's left arm making contact, here is the video that shows the far angle where the right arm makes contact with the head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szlo7tMBAKQ

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04-16-2011, 09:43 PM
  #144
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Colin Campbell's son just boarded a Canadiens player with a forearm to the back of his head... no penalty.

yeah, let's see how that plays out.

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