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Official 2011 Ottawa Senators Draft Thread Part VII

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Old
04-17-2011, 12:27 PM
  #26
ReginKarlssonLehner
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Murray has to trade to get a top 3 pick.

RHN/Landeskog/Larsson

One of those 3 will be dynamite, i'm also really liking Huberdeau.

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04-17-2011, 12:31 PM
  #27
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I just think all this talk of trading PW came from Yost's article. I think the last thing you do in a rebuild is trade away players you've invested 3 years into, who look like they could be 2nd round steals and corner stones of a league best D, because maybe you'll be drafting Jon Toewes, that argument doesnlt work for me.

I don't beleive in adding by subtrating. If you want to talk about trading Brian lee who I don;t think is a very good hockey player I may be more receptive, but trading away a 6'4, good skating PP QB who has improved as much as Weircoche has in the last 3 season to me is stupid. He is on the cusp of making the NHL and I'd rather him stick with the team for the next 2 years so we can see what type of player we have. We did this with Lee and he isn't Brian Leetch, he's Karel Rachunek with a smaller head, so get rid of the prospects that have plateaued (and we are loaded at Right side D) and keep the ones who could be an all-star in PW and draft your best player at #6.

If in 2 years PW looks like his is Brian Lee but with a normal sized head, flip him in the 2013 draft, but for now keep him because he could be great.
You don't believe in quality over quantity?

We need to build the roster we want to build...if that's what it takes I'll back it. I just want them to get what they want to get done. I'm fine either way, but if they successfully move up in the draft I'll call it a win at the time of, no matter what they do.

They need to round out the high end of the roster the way they want to. The depth only matters so much and we've been finding NHL depth all over the draft.

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04-17-2011, 12:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
You don't believe in quality over quantity?

We need to build the roster we want to build...if that's what it takes I'll back it. I just want them to get what they want to get done. I'm fine either way, but if they successfully move up in the draft I'll call it a win at the time of, no matter what they do.

They need to round out the high end of the roster the way they want to. The depth only matters so much and we've been finding NHL depth all over the draft.
There's depth like Z. Smith and then there are Dman that could turn into a player a top 4. To me PW is still part of the plan and it's to much of a gamble to trade away a player who may be your best prospect in the organiztion just to move up in the draft.

I'd trade draft picks and depth players like Lee, Smith, Foligno, but I wouldn't trade PW, to me he has to much potential to give up on at this point.

And on top of it we'd need to find a prospect to play Left side D anyways for us in the draft if we trade him, so you solve 1 problme by creating another problme, that's what tema like NYI do. Kuba is done and Phillips is looking older each game. We only have Cowen on the Left side, Weircoche is the prefect balance for our top 4, good skater, big, good puck mover. To me PW could be a better player then Lando or Couturier or Hamilton m there's to much promise to trade him right now especially when we are sitting at #6 and have so many draft picks and other assets like Foligno that could get us into the top 4 to land Lando or Couturier. PW to me right now is untouchable, in 2-3 years maybe he's an AHL NHL twenner, but I want to know for sure before I trade him

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04-17-2011, 12:42 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
There's depth like Z. Smith and then there are Dman that could turn into a player a top 4. To me PW is still part of the plan and it's to much of a gamble to trade away a player who may be your best prospect in the organiztion just to move up in the draft.

I'd trade draft picks and depth players like Lee, Smith, Foligno, but I wouldn't trade PW, to me he has to much potential to give up on at this point.

And on top of it we'd need to find a prospect to play Left side D anyways for us in the draft if we trade him, so you solve 1 problme by creating another problme, that's what tema like NYI do. Kuba is done and Phillips is looking older each game. We only have Cowen on the Left side, Weircoche is the prefect balance for our top 4, good skater, big, good puck mover. To me PW could be a better player then Lando or Couturier or Hamilton m there's to much promise to trade him right now especially when we are sitting at #6 and have so many draft picks and other assets like Foligno that could get us into the top 4 to land Lando or Couturier. PW to me right now is untouchable, in 2-3 years maybe he's an AHL NHL twenner, but I want to know for sure before I trade him
But your a fan, so your always just guessing and going with instinct. The people paid to do these jobs may actually have a very good read...and may decide this is the best time to move him, who knows. If they move him, I trust them.

In the end I don't expect PW would be moved in this deal. I think he'd be moved in a package deal bringing young top6er.

Who do we get to play the left side? Gonchar, Phillips and Cowen (or Kuba)...the same guys slated to do it for us next year anyways. After that? We have cap space and can seek a replacement via free agency or even trade. Pick an LD in the 2nd round...sign one out of Sweden. Who knows. Draft Ryan Murray, Griffin Reinhart or Slater Koekoek or something.


Last edited by Minister of Offence: 04-17-2011 at 01:03 PM.
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04-17-2011, 12:55 PM
  #30
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There's depth like Z. Smith and then there are Dman that could turn into a player a top 4. To me PW is still part of the plan and it's to much of a gamble to trade away a player who may be your best prospect in the organiztion just to move up in the draft.

I'd trade draft picks and depth players like Lee, Smith, Foligno, but I wouldn't trade PW, to me he has to much potential to give up on at this point.

And on top of it we'd need to find a prospect to play Left side D anyways for us in the draft if we trade him, so you solve 1 problme by creating another problme, that's what tema like NYI do. Kuba is done and Phillips is looking older each game. We only have Cowen on the Left side, Weircoche is the prefect balance for our top 4, good skater, big, good puck mover. To me PW could be a better player then Lando or Couturier or Hamilton m there's to much promise to trade him right now especially when we are sitting at #6 and have so many draft picks and other assets like Foligno that could get us into the top 4 to land Lando or Couturier. PW to me right now is untouchable, in 2-3 years maybe he's an AHL NHL twenner, but I want to know for sure before I trade him
There are so many things wrong with this post.

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04-17-2011, 01:03 PM
  #31
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There are so many things wrong with this post.
PW is not the best prospect we have. I thought it was clear to everyone that Rundblad is.

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04-17-2011, 01:12 PM
  #32
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PW is not the best prospect we have. I thought it was clear to everyone that Rundblad is.
Jared Cowen.

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Old
04-17-2011, 01:17 PM
  #33
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Wiercioch has a very high upside, but he most likely tops out as a decent NHLer. He has value, but lets not go overboard here.

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04-17-2011, 01:59 PM
  #34
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Wiercioch has a very high upside, but he most likely tops out as a decent NHLer. He has value, but lets not go overboard here.
at some point in time I'm sure somebody was saying that about Shea Weber. St Louis gave up on Rundblad - another young D man in the system with huge upside - and look how that deal turned out for them. Would they take it back, maybe not, would we, definetly not.

I'm against trading players who cieling could be all star until it is clear they are not. PW this summer could come back and blow us all away and play 82 NHL games next year and get 30 points - see Andrej Ameszaros as proof.

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Old
04-17-2011, 02:00 PM
  #35
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at some point in time I'm sure somebody was saying that about Shea Weber. St Louis gave up on Rundblad - another young D man in the system with huge upside - and look how that deal turned out for them. Would they take it back, maybe not, would we, definetly not.

I'm against trading players who cieling could be all star until it is clear they are not. PW this summer could come back and blow us all away and play 82 NHL games next year and get 30 points - see Andrej Ameszaros as proof.
You can't word it like that. They didn't give up on Rundblad. They traded him to pick a player that may have had rated in their top 6-7 or in the draft...and we probably weren't willing to pick that player. So obviously we like the trade....but so do they.

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Old
04-17-2011, 02:04 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
at some point in time I'm sure somebody was saying that about Shea Weber. St Louis gave up on Rundblad - another young D man in the system with huge upside - and look how that deal turned out for them. Would they take it back, maybe not, would we, definetly not.

I'm against trading players who cieling could be all star until it is clear they are not. PW this summer could come back and blow us all away and play 82 NHL games next year and get 30 points - see Andrej Ameszaros as proof.
I'm against keeping a player that is talented but risky until he officially busts because that eliminates any possibility of trading that player for someone who also has a lot of talented but doesn't bust. It works both ways.

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04-17-2011, 02:24 PM
  #37
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Any people here following the Q ? How about we draft Jean Gabriel Pageau of Gatineau with one of our "late" pick. He got 79 points in 67 games this year, and 16 points in 10 game in playoff. The reason I'm talking about him is because I played against him when I was younger, he was obviously dominating the Atome BB with 5 points pretty much every game. We could see he was gonna be an amazing player, he had an amazing vision and wasn't selfish at all. I'm sure he could have scored 5 goals per game, but as soon as he was seeing one of his teammate avaible, he was making the pass. He was always small thought, that's his "problem" I think. He's currently 5'09 and 160 lbs according to the Q official site. Anyone saw him play more than a few time and could give us a fair report on him ?

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04-17-2011, 02:29 PM
  #38
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Any people here following the Q ? How about we draft Jean Gabriel Pageau of Gatineau with one of our "late" pick. He got 79 points in 67 games this year, and 16 points in 10 game in playoff. The reason I'm talking about him is because I played against him when I was younger, he was obviously dominating the Atome BB with 5 points pretty much every game. We could see he was gonna be an amazing player, he had an amazing vision and wasn't selfish at all. I'm sure he could have scored 5 goals per game, but as soon as he was seeing one of his teammate avaible, he was making the pass. He was always small thought, that's his "problem" I think. He's currently 5'09 and 160 lbs according to the Q official site. Anyone saw him play more than a few time and could give us a fair report on him ?
For the life of me, I have no idea how he dropped out of the Central scouting rankings. He has an extremely high skill level and could be a dynamite scorer. Upside is really quite high, although a decent chance he doesn't make it of course. He was the best player on the ice Wednesday night and scored a goal few NHLers could do. I haven't seen it anywhere on video yet, but it was simply fantastic.

I'd love to see the team spend a 6th or 7th round pick on him and it has nothing to do with him being from the area. Matt Hoffman 2.0.

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04-17-2011, 02:36 PM
  #39
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For the life of me, I have no idea how he dropped out of the Central scouting rankings. He has an extremely high skill level and could be a dynamite scorer. Upside is really quite high, although a decent chance he doesn't make it of course. He was the best player on the ice Wednesday night and scored a goal few NHLers could do. I haven't seen it anywhere on video yet, but it was simply fantastic.

I'd love to see the team spend a 6th or 7th round pick on him and it has nothing to do with him being from the area. Matt Hoffman 2.0.
Yeah, he's currently outplaying Couturier in this Gatineau vs Drummondville. I'm sure if he doesn't get drafted this year, next year he might be a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

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04-17-2011, 02:39 PM
  #40
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You can't word it like that. They didn't give up on Rundblad. They traded him to pick a player that may have had rated in their top 6-7 or in the draft...and we probably weren't willing to pick that player. So obviously we like the trade....but so do they.
I think the point remains that if you have a player with so much promise, you don't let him go. At best St Louis went lateral on this trade and Ottawa now has the top #5 ranked prospect in hockey (even though those rankings are notoriously bad because these guys are all 18-19 year olds - but even more reason to keep PW, he's proven he can play in the AHL, he made the NHL and looked better after each game)

A big summer for PW like Rundblad had last year and he could be in the lineup next year.

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04-17-2011, 02:45 PM
  #41
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I trust that our scouts will make the right decision with our #6 pick and find a way to get the player they want. All I'm hoping for is to use some of our later picks to move up with the NSH pick and draft Zibanejad or Hamilton. I think either of them would be steals at their current projected spots. Could you imagine coming out of this draft with Huberdeau and Zibanejad? I know, pipe dream.

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04-17-2011, 02:48 PM
  #42
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I think the point remains that if you have a player with so much promise, you don't let him go. At best St Louis went lateral on this trade and Ottawa now has the top #5 ranked prospect in hockey (even though those rankings are notoriously bad because these guys are all 18-19 year olds - but even more reason to keep PW, he's proven he can play in the AHL, he made the NHL and looked better after each game)

A big summer for PW like Rundblad had last year and he could be in the lineup next year.
They traded dr for vt and they are basically the same but at a position they wanted to address. Most people would say tarasenko is a better prospect. I don't think the point remains, not necessarily.

All depends what your list looks like, and it's not just the list, it's the specific ratings and projections you have made for the players. How important each one is in how they fit into your franchise going forward.

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04-17-2011, 03:22 PM
  #43
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Jared Cowen.
Alexei Yashin

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04-17-2011, 06:39 PM
  #44
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You know, the more I think about it, the more I don't mind Murphy at 6 either. I beleive that whichever forward is available at 6 would be a solid pick, but if the scouts think Murphy is the guy, that would be ok too. It's likely a couple of years of rebuild, Murphy would likely need some time anyway, and then we would be looking at a top 4 of Karlsson-Runblad-Cowen-Murphy, that's super sweet, and we would have the option of pulling a Blues and moving someone for a forward.
I guess my point is, we need forwards in the system but we also need to take BPA especially if the scouts think there is a gap, and that could be good as well.

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04-17-2011, 06:47 PM
  #45
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You know, the more I think about it, the more I don't mind Murphy at 6 either. I beleive that whichever forward is available at 6 would be a solid pick, but if the scouts think Murphy is the guy, that would be ok too. It's likely a couple of years of rebuild, Murphy would likely need some time anyway, and then we would be looking at a top 4 of Karlsson-Runblad-Cowen-Murphy, that's super sweet, and we would have the option of pulling a Blues and moving someone for a forward.
I guess my point is, we need forwards in the system but we also need to take BPA especially if the scouts think there is a gap, and that could be good as well.
Only do Murphy if your looking at the next Scott Neidermayer, not the next Mike Green. We don't need another all O No D prospect to work with.

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04-17-2011, 07:29 PM
  #46
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Only do Murphy if your looking at the next Scott Neidermayer, not the next Mike Green. We don't need another all O No D prospect to work with.
I fully get what you are saying, but my point was this: if our scouts think Murphy is Green, but the forwards available are nice players but not gamebreakers, then you take the guy that is a gamebreaker and figure the rest out later.
We get mike green at 6 i'm pretty happy.

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04-17-2011, 07:34 PM
  #47
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I fully get what you are saying, but my point was this: if our scouts think Murphy is Green, but the forwards available are nice players but not gamebreakers, then you take the guy that is a gamebreaker and figure the rest out later.
We get mike green at 6 i'm pretty happy.
I'm working off the assumption we can do better than Green at 6th...an educated assumption. If Murphy is projected to be a Green or similar, I suggest we do what is necessary to move up and get a player that can make differences on this roster, whoever that may be.

I'm completely fine with Siemens or Oleksiak at NSH pick if either available or within reach. I'm fine with a Dman altogether. Preference is we should find a playmaking center with good puck skill in the 1st round somewhere...or McNeill.

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04-17-2011, 07:35 PM
  #48
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Murray has stated that if they had to choose between a forward and dman, they'll take the forward.

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04-17-2011, 07:37 PM
  #49
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Murray has stated that if they had to choose between a forward and dman, they'll take the forward.
It's basically the same thing he said last year. If it's even, they'll go forward. I'm sure they're feeling pressure to come out of this pick with a forward so if it looks like a Dman will be BPA at their spot, I expect we'll be moving.

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04-17-2011, 07:49 PM
  #50
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This draft might be kinda exciting.....

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