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Here's why there is no need to worry about game 2's performance

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Old
04-18-2011, 05:45 PM
  #26
AstroDan
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Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
fixed

this team played like crap against Colorado last year. It took losing the first two games to light a fire under them and take the series, then beating the Wings (who is a likely matchup should we win).

If they continue with this lackluster play, I want our top line gone. I'm so sick of them. I don't care anymore.
I'm right there with you. I want to see PO results NOW. $22M/yr?

I see this year very much like last year againsdt Colorado. The Pavelsy line was all alone (mostly) then SJ became good. (Until Conf Finals) OH...never mind...

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04-18-2011, 06:21 PM
  #27
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Pretty hard to do when the first line is eating up most of the minutes and killing the momentum with turnover after turnover.

Maybe Todd should except the fact that the first line isn't really the first line anymore. Maybe give that 4th line some minutes....even they seem more effective than the first line, sans Seto.

Maybe it's time we demote JT, he isn't any good anymore....and never was in the playoffs anyway.
The first line is a flat out excuse.

As for McLellan, he's shown that he is stubborn in his ways. He won't bench Wallin. He won't get away from a PK system that isn't working. He will continue to play the guys that are struggling like Thornton and Marleau. However, in the latter instance, that is a requirement. You can't hide Thornton and Marleau because they stink for a game or a series. The only way that they can get out of a slump is by playing through it.

The point of having depth is to take advantages of matchups so that you don't have to rely on your top guys to win all the time. Sometimes, you will stalemate the top lines or they will suck. That shouldn't prevent you from getting your chances, burying them, and winning when the team overall is supposed to be better than the opposition.

They'll get out of it. Maybe not Thornton but I feel Marleau will. He's had a good history against the Kings and hasn't looked all that bad. They've bounced back after these performances before and they likely will again.

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04-18-2011, 10:08 PM
  #28
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To be devils advocate the top line makes like 17 million since Heatley isn't on it anymore.

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04-18-2011, 11:18 PM
  #29
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Worry? I'm beyond the point of worrying with this team.

I was hoping that our players would have really learned something from last playoffs. But to completely not show up for any game during the playoffs is inexcusable.

Even if we make it out of this round against LA, I have little (zero?) hope of them making the Finals. We have no special teams right now, which may be fine against a team like the Kings. You think we would last against the Wings? Or Vancouver?

Not a chance this team makes it past Round 2 IMO. Not unless something drastic happens (I'm not really sure what that would be at this point).

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04-19-2011, 06:20 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Winky View Post
Worry? I'm beyond the point of worrying with this team.

I was hoping that our players would have really learned something from last playoffs. But to completely not show up for any game during the playoffs is inexcusable.

Even if we make it out of this round against LA, I have little (zero?) hope of them making the Finals. We have no special teams right now, which may be fine against a team like the Kings. You think we would last against the Wings? Or Vancouver?

Not a chance this team makes it past Round 2 IMO. Not unless something drastic happens (I'm not really sure what that would be at this point).
I'm not willing to take this leap based off of one awful game. Chicago looked pretty bad against Nashville in last year's opening round series and they were able to turn it around.

You put the Sharks PP against the Wings PK and things are different. Wings PK is not nearly as aggressive. I think they would stand a very good chance against either the Wings or Canucks because it's a much different mindset and matchup against those teams.

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04-19-2011, 08:40 AM
  #31
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I'm not going to give up on this team yet, it's tied 1-1, now if it gets worse, then all hell would break loose.

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04-19-2011, 11:50 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I'm not willing to take this leap based off of one awful game. Chicago looked pretty bad against Nashville in last year's opening round series and they were able to turn it around.

You put the Sharks PP against the Wings PK and things are different. Wings PK is not nearly as aggressive. I think they would stand a very good chance against either the Wings or Canucks because it's a much different mindset and matchup against those teams.
What about based off of the last 7ish years?

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Old
04-19-2011, 12:35 PM
  #33
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The problems we face against the Kings are their PK is neutralizing our PP, and they are winning draws. Both are areas we were better at during the regular season. They are also very strong on a forecheck and are keeping us in our own zone.

Still .... effort=results. If the Sharks get through the first 10 minutes of the game without being down 2 goals, we should be fine so long as they are skating hard, taking short shifts and supporting the exit play underneath. Its really just execution and effort. The rest will take care of itself if they show up to play. At times, an away game helps the focus and takes down the emotion that can get out of control at home.

I look for a solid game 3 effort and hope we are rewarded with a positive result.

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04-19-2011, 12:47 PM
  #34
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Obviously I was a little dissapointed with the last games effort, but my biggest concerns are about the special teams (as they were prior to the playoffs.). The PK is as bad as it was in the regular season (worse really) and the powerplay has fallen off a cliff.

The top players simply are not driving the net, period. On the power play, or even strength. Same old story of perimeter shots and low percentage plays. No creativity. Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, and Dany Heatley are easy to play against.

I find this quote interesting too from TM:
“But there should be an overwhelming hunger even if we played a perfect game. If that’s missing at this time of the year, then we’ve got the wrong group. I know they’re excited about playing again, not necessarily to make amends, but just to start playing the way we’re supposed to play and go from there.”

If the Shark's go out in the first round, will they look to somehow move those guys? I know we all talk about it being impossible, but a quote like that opens the door a little bit. I highly doubt he's talking about his depth players here. Obviously TM is not DW, but it still makes me wonder.

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04-19-2011, 12:51 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fire Doug Wilson View Post
To be devils advocate the top line makes like 17 million since Heatley isn't on it anymore.
Angel's Advocate, heatley has been the only one of the big 3 to bring some of his game to the Kings series. No one was great in game 2 but he at least showed up in game 1.

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Old
04-19-2011, 12:59 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Obviously I was a little dissapointed with the last games effort, but my biggest concerns are about the special teams (as they were prior to the playoffs.). The PK is as bad as it was in the regular season (worse really) and the powerplay has fallen off a cliff.

The top players simply are not driving the net, period. On the power play, or even strength. Same old story of perimeter shots and low percentage plays. No creativity. Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, and Dany Heatley are easy to play against.

I find this quote interesting too from TM:
“But there should be an overwhelming hunger even if we played a perfect game. If that’s missing at this time of the year, then we’ve got the wrong group. I know they’re excited about playing again, not necessarily to make amends, but just to start playing the way we’re supposed to play and go from there.”

If the Shark's go out in the first round, will they look to somehow move those guys? I know we all talk about it being impossible, but a quote like that opens the door a little bit. I highly doubt he's talking about his depth players here. Obviously TM is not DW, but it still makes me wonder.
I heard that quote on the radio yesterday. My response was "no ****, it took you three years to figure that out?"

Doesn't it seem like our PP disappears every year? Like, since back in the Edmonton series?

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:06 PM
  #37
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Can SJ HF fans make a pact? That we won't jump of the bridge regarding the Sharks after a loss? It's one of the worst traits as a whole for this fanbase, lol. How many people actually expected them to sweep? Granted the way they lost is discouraging but it counts the same nonetheless, one loss. Really hate avoiding a forum that I otherwise enjoy because it feels like I walked into a Simple Plan concert

I guess that's HF Shark's fans for better or worse, heh. Though I wish the players would stop their Jekyl/Hyde deal as well, though theirs is obviously different.

Anyway, back on topic. The biggest thing I feel they need to change or than the 1-1-2 is...

I'd like to see Heatley for Seto on the top PP unit. Would give us net presence that Seto otherwise really wouldn't. Would give a legit trigger man in the slot/circles for PP2 as well. Overall balances the PP units a bit more.

Oh, and for the love of god SJ (not named Murray,) at least pretend you want to block shots from the point. Looking at you Heatley and Clowe.

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04-19-2011, 01:07 PM
  #38
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Our PP has seemed to disappear right on schedule come springtime (haven't looked up the numbers, and haven't looked at last year, but I do remember it being an issue in the past).

My point is ... how can any team's top players completely not show up for any playoff game? I haven't seen that happen in the playoffs this year yet. The fact that it even happened in Game 2 makes me feel that this IS the wrong group. What else can explain their play?

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Franchise13 View Post
Can SJ HF fans make a pact? That we won't jump of the bridge regarding the Sharks after a loss? It's one of the worst traits as a whole for this fanbase, lol. How many people actually expected them to sweep? Granted the way they lost is discouraging but it counts the same nonetheless, one loss. Really hate avoiding a forum that I otherwise enjoy because it feels like I walked into a Simple Plan concert

I guess that's HF Shark's fans for better or worse, heh. Though I wish the players would stop their Jekyl/Hyde deal as well, though theirs is obviously different.

Anyway, back on topic. The biggest thing I feel they need to change or than the 1-1-2 is...

I'd like to see Heatley for Seto on the top PP unit. Would give us net presence that Seto otherwise really wouldn't. Would give a legit trigger man in the slot/circles for PP2 as well. Overall balances the PP units a bit more.

Oh, and for the love of god SJ (not named Murray,) at least pretend you want to block shots from the point. Looking at you Heatley and Clowe.
I think you miss the point. How can you say the way they lost was "discouraging"? They showed no drive the entire game!

How can play like that not be a big deal?

(And also, this isn't about "one game". This has been the culture of this team for about 7 years now.)

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04-19-2011, 01:26 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Winky View Post
I think you miss the point. How can you say the way they lost was "discouraging"? They showed no drive the entire game!

How can play like that not be a big deal?

(And also, this isn't about "one game". This has been the culture of this team for about 7 years now.)
I think he's also ignoring a whole lot of "if's" made in my and other posts. My point was just to analyze the quote by TM and what it might mean if the Sharks do in fact go out in the first round, not implying that I think they will.

I think they have major issues right now, but I don't think they'll lose to LA. If they did, it would be an epic 'i tripped over the curb and had my hands stuck in my pockets' faceplant. I just don't see that happening, but who knows.

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04-19-2011, 01:29 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sacto View Post
Or we could be lulling them for another team.

The Wings or Nucks would wreck the Kings.
this nucks would be up 2 games right now and probably by a wide margin...

right now nucks and wings look like they want to win sharks looked like they were going through the motions...

if we dont pick up play and if we somehow get out of this round we would get destroyed playing this way by the wings or nucks...

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Old
04-19-2011, 01:47 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think he's also ignoring a whole lot of "if's" made in my and other posts. My point was just to analyze the quote by TM and what it might mean if the Sharks do in fact go out in the first round, not implying that I think they will.

I think they have major issues right now, but I don't think they'll lose to LA. If they did, it would be an epic 'i tripped over the curb and had my hands stuck in my pockets' faceplant. I just don't see that happening, but who knows.
I was more referring to the GDT, perhaps this wasn't the best place to post it. I didn't really want bump the old GDT though. Should've posted this sooner.

I read and definitely get your points. But they are more rational than the ones I was referring too.

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Old
04-19-2011, 02:10 PM
  #43
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I disagree on the last 7 years being bad effort at least for last year. Last year's playoffs I think the effort level was there most games. We outplayed Colorado and they only stayed in it for six due to a hot goalie and some lucky bounces. We handled the Red Wings pretty good, and just got out played/out-goalie'd by Chicago.

The years before that, yeah, spotty effort occurred to often, especially in the Ducks series.

Hopefully the last game left a bad enough taste in their mouths to remember how crappy they played against the Ducks and they won't dig themselves in that kind of hole again.

Still, the fact we're having to guess isn't good. I just am glad the waiting to see is almost over, this 70 hour break between games has been torture.

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Old
04-19-2011, 06:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Winky View Post
What about based off of the last 7ish years?
What does the last 7-ish years have to do with game 2? The answer is absolutely nothing. They had a very crappy game. That's as far as it goes. Sometimes, it simply comes down to the fact that they sucked. How often over the past few years would you question Ryane Clowe's effort? Probably none but you could make that question after half-assing it on that point shot with Heatley. In some games, that kind of stuff just snowballs and you have the egg that was laid on Saturday.

Whether or not you believe the absolute worst in everyone on that team, the reality is that it is still something they can erase and come back to win from...and that's the ONLY thing that matters.

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04-19-2011, 06:55 PM
  #45
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It's somewhat irrelevant if the Sharks beat LA at this point, as their next opponent would be Detroit, and unless this team massively wakes up and remembers what constant effort is, they simply aren't going to beat Detroit.

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04-19-2011, 07:01 PM
  #46
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Well, if Zetterberg would still be out, it'll be easier. Plus Thornton plays like a madman against Detroit, so I'm not worried.

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04-19-2011, 07:04 PM
  #47
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the thing is when a team is missing 2 of its top centers, you might unconsciously overlook them and expect an easy win and the sharks weren't ready to compete and went down a couple of goals and it snowballed from there. it's not an excuse but that might have been a reason.

the point i'm making is the sharks wouldn't unconsciously overlook detroit ever so they would be willing to compete every game probably.

hopefully the kings have got their attention and they will give the appropriate effort from now on.

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04-19-2011, 07:04 PM
  #48
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It's somewhat irrelevant if the Sharks beat LA at this point, as their next opponent would be Detroit, and unless this team massively wakes up and remembers what constant effort is, they simply aren't going to beat Detroit.
Honestly? If there's one team I trust this coaching staff to pummel, it's the Red Wings. Especially if Zetterberg is out, I really can't see the Sharks taking more than six games to beat them. The Sharks' real test, assuming they get past L.A., will be in the conference finals against Vancouver or Nashville.

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04-19-2011, 07:38 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Jesus Toews View Post
Honestly? If there's one team I trust this coaching staff to pummel, it's the Red Wings. Especially if Zetterberg is out, I really can't see the Sharks taking more than six games to beat them. The Sharks' real test, assuming they get past L.A., will be in the conference finals against Vancouver or Nashville.
Really? If the Sharks can't get up enough will and effort to soundly trounce and LA team that is missing its best player (by FARRR), you really expect them to somehow work up the desire to be at Detroit team that regular trounces them no matter who is out?

Zetterburg is less important to Detroit than Kopitar is to LA. Yet the Sharks STILL can't seem to muster up the effort. They should be sweeping LA in 4 or 5 with relative ease. As it is they barely won in Game 1, sucked throughout Game 2, and while I won't be surprised if they win tonight, I suspect it's very likely they may lose in the 1st round or barely squeek through.

When the best players on the team have been Couture (no surprise), Pavelski (no surprised, Murray (no surprise to me), and Setoguchi (even I'm surprised), with the rest of team sucking horrendously (Heatley, JT, Marleau, Boyle, Clowe (other than maybe 10 minutes in game 1), Wallin, Nichol, and on and on generally sucking; I don't think this team will beat Detroit.

I said it last year, and I say it again. As long as Joe Thornton and Dany Heatley are key players on this team, the Sharks won't win a Cup.

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04-19-2011, 07:46 PM
  #50
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Really? If the Sharks can't get up enough will and effort to soundly trounce and LA team that is missing its best player (by FARRR), you really expect them to somehow work up the desire to be at Detroit team that regular trounces them no matter who is out?

Zetterburg is less important to Detroit than Kopitar is to LA. Yet the Sharks STILL can't seem to muster up the effort. They should be sweeping LA in 4 or 5 with relative ease. As it is they barely won in Game 1, sucked throughout Game 2, and while I won't be surprised if they win tonight, I suspect it's very likely they may lose in the 1st round or barely squeek through.

When the best players on the team have been Couture (no surprise), Pavelski (no surprised, Murray (no surprise to me), and Setoguchi (even I'm surprised), with the rest of team sucking horrendously (Heatley, JT, Marleau, Boyle, Clowe (other than maybe 10 minutes in game 1), Wallin, Nichol, and on and on generally sucking; I don't think this team will beat Detroit.

I said it last year, and I say it again. As long as Joe Thornton and Dany Heatley are key players on this team, the Sharks won't win a Cup.
The Wings don't "regularly trounce" the Sharks anymore. Including the series last year, the Sharks are 7-2 in their last nine games against Detroit. What Zetterberg being out does is force Babcock to match Datsyuk against Thornton again and JT will likely eat him alive just like he did last spring. Also, Howard is easily the worst goaltender in the Stanley Cup Playoffs and will literally lose games all by himself. The Sharks have more offensive depth than the Wings do (even with Z in the lineup) and the one team the 1-1-2 PK is able to stymie is Detroit. Again, even facing Detroit is contingent on them pulling their heads out of their ***** and beating the Kings here so while your comments about their lack of effort in this series are completely valid, it's irrelevant WRT a potential series with the Red Wings.

Also, salaries aside, Thornton and Heatley aren't really key players on this team anymore. They're complementary pieces at best. Pavelski, Marleau, Clowe, Couture, Boyle, Murray and Niemi are the core here and I think that group is capable of leading the team to a championship. Hopefully they show it.

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