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04-18-2011, 07:32 AM
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Affiliations

Our team is currently in limbo with this for the offseason. The whole Syracuse and Anahiem deal might blow up in smoke, which would affect us. We also have Binghamton and Ottawa(really just because of the proximity to Binnghamton) but anyway this was our first year with a dual affiliation. I'm curious for those who understand the whole matter better, whats better to have, a single affiliation or a multiple affiliation? I see benefits to both. We had a lot of players this season we wouldn't have had otherwise. But when it rains with callups it absoloutely friggin pours and you end up shorthanded. When you have a single affiliation most of the roster is yours but you likely have less talent. Also a side matter, can a team at this level have MORE than 2 affiliations?

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04-18-2011, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jackalsfan1 View Post
Our team is currently in limbo with this for the offseason. The whole Syracuse and Anahiem deal might blow up in smoke, which would affect us. We also have Binghamton and Ottawa(really just because of the proximity to Binnghamton) but anyway this was our first year with a dual affiliation. I'm curious for those who understand the whole matter better, whats better to have, a single affiliation or a multiple affiliation? I see benefits to both. We had a lot of players this season we wouldn't have had otherwise. But when it rains with callups it absoloutely friggin pours and you end up shorthanded. When you have a single affiliation most of the roster is yours but you likely have less talent. Also a side matter, can a team at this level have MORE than 2 affiliations?
How about this idea have Elmira being Affiliated with the Adirondack Phantoms

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04-18-2011, 09:44 AM
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How about this idea have Elmira being Affiliated with the Adirondack Phantoms
That would be weird considering the once heated rivalry we had.(Man, I miss that) I also hated how we ended up with Littlejohn at the end, I hated the guy. I hated how he seemed to like it here more than Adirondack, which given the amount of time he spent there was wrong IMO. All that being said I would take the Phantoms/Flyers. The Flyers for some reason generally have good minor lague teams.

I know the Flyers have Greenville right now(and dang they have a good team) I don't know how ECHL affiliations work. I'm guessing at this level it's a year to year kind of a deal, because the NHL teams don't truly need them(hence there are quite a feww without.) This brings up another question, can an NHL team have more than one ECHL affiliate?

The reason why I brought up the possibility of more than 2 affiliates is because of this:

http://www.wetmtv.com/sports/story/J...feUIF0gmw.cspx

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Nichols says they have to find the right balance to have quality players on the ice, and also prevent losing many of those players at the same time. He tells 18 Sports that could mean one, two, or possibly three affiliations for next season.
I personally think that is impossible of a calculation to find.

Then this article was in our paper yesterday recapping the season:

http://www.stargazette.com/article/2...xt|FRONTPAGE|p

Not a bad read, it was more informative than I thought it was gunna be. We used 67 skaters and 10 goalies. Far too much. Then there was this at the end:

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While the offseason brings much uncertainty for the Jackals, they can take pride in four straight seasons of reaching the postseason. And with so many AHL franchises located near Elmira, finding an affiliate or two shouldn't be too hard.
Not sure that many, if any potential affiliates would honestly care much about that. Personally I think Anahiem/Syracuse will divorce. I know our brass isn't happy with what happened in the Playoffs with Eric Lampe. We don't need to be affiliated with Binghamton/Ottawa because the first season we worked with Binghamton without any agreement. The proximity works. I have heard whispers anyway that Bingo might be relocated to Canada, but of course I heard that last year as well.

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04-18-2011, 10:11 AM
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Dual affiliations are better than one imo. I thought NYR and Philly did solid with the Warriors. It would of been better if Adirondack wasn't such a joke.

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04-18-2011, 10:37 AM
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Dual affiliations are better than one imo. I thought NYR and Philly did solid with the Warriors. It would of been better if Adirondack wasn't such a joke.
We ironically had the same type of deal. Connecticut and Binghamton had the same type of record(both made the Playoffs) and Adirondack and Syracuse were both pathetic. I'm really ticked about the whole Lampe deal. Anahiem screwed us over. I like them as a team, they gave us talent but some of the decisions they made were mind boggling.

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04-18-2011, 12:07 PM
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Dual (or more) affiliations provide more players (with paid salaries by "parents") and/or $$ equivalent.

However, the downside is when call ups are needed/happen.


The NHL Sharks have had multiple ECHL affiliates at times. And they sometimes have called up guys from teams they are not affiliated with.

With 8 goalies under NHL contract last year, I thought it was possible they'd have multiple guys in the ECHL. (They ended up with two in Europe and an overager in WHL.)

Now I hear they're pursuing another (Swedish) goalie and there's at least fan support to move Niittymaki with Niemi playing so well.

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04-18-2011, 12:49 PM
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The NHL Sharks have had multiple ECHL affiliates at times. And they sometimes have called up guys from teams they are not affiliated with.
The Blues do that, too, which I don't get. They had injuries up the wazoo this year, and had to call up 12 guys from Peoria... and not a one of those Peoria callups was replaced by anyone from Alaska, with whom the Blues and Peoria are supposedly affiliated.

Now, finding guys like Derek Nesbitt and Joe Gannon on other ECHL teams was a nice consolation prize, but you would think that the Blues and Peoria would at least work with Alaska to make sure that the Aces had players there who would be able to fit into the St. Louis/Peoria "system" on an emergency basis. If not, what's the point of having an ECHL affiliate in the first place?

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04-18-2011, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Dual (or more) affiliations provide more players (with paid salaries by "parents") and/or $$ equivalent.

However, the downside is when call ups are needed/happen.


The NHL Sharks have had multiple ECHL affiliates at times. And they sometimes have called up guys from teams they are not affiliated with.
With 8 goalies under NHL contract last year, I thought it was possible they'd have multiple guys in the ECHL. (They ended up with two in Europe and an overager in WHL.)

Now I hear they're pursuing another (Swedish) goalie and there's at least fan support to move Niittymaki with Niemi playing so well.
I hate when that happens and it really ticks me off when the guy is just sitting in the stands. I did not know you could have multiple ECHL affiliates for an NHL franchise. seems like a bit of a slap in the face.

Nittymaki shoulda been moved at the deadline. So, is this finally the sharks year?

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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
The Blues do that, too, which I don't get. They had injuries up the wazoo this year, and had to call up 12 guys from Peoria... and not a one of those Peoria callups was replaced by anyone from Alaska, with whom the Blues and Peoria are supposedly affiliated.

Now, finding guys like Derek Nesbitt and Joe Gannon on other ECHL teams was a nice consolation prize, but you would think that the Blues and Peoria would at least work with Alaska to make sure that the Aces had players there who would be able to fit into the St. Louis/Peoria "system" on an emergency basis. If not, what's the point of having an ECHL affiliate in the first place?
After 4 years i'm convinced it's just a marketing tool for the ECHL team and that the AHL team is the real "partner" of the deal, sometimes hardly at all.

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04-18-2011, 04:37 PM
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The worst is when the NHL or AHL Affiliate want to send you someone but your team has no need for . I won't mention any names but Greenville had a player that had no place in our lineup and was only on the team for a few games used as a 10th forwards before being reassigned to a CHL team . Greenville has had a lot of scoring from the ECHL contracted guys not that the affiliated guys didn't play well for us . This was my first time since 05/06 following the ECHL closely but it seems like it would be the other way around (the nhl/ahl contracted guys leading the way ) but a lot of teams seem to be getting it done with their own guys. I hate loans I understand its great for the players which I'm glad for but nothing like seeing in the transactions list 3 or 4 players loaned up in one day.

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04-18-2011, 05:06 PM
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I'm not sure that having one or two affiliates makes much difference except maybe at playoff time if one of your AHL teams don't make the playoffs. Having only one affiliate can cause enough headaches for some of the better ECHL teams. Last season Idaho won the Brabham Cup and got a first round bye. They went 8-0 in the Conference Playoffs with Richard Bachman in the net and made the Kelly Cup Finals. Texas also made the Calder Cup Finals and needed to call up Bachman due to an injury to Brent Krahn before the Finals. Idaho was forced to go with "the other guy" in the finals and got rolled while Bachman didn't play a minute in Texas.

This season Idaho was forced to dress 8 defensemen and 7 forwards twice because of 5 call ups (4 forwards and 1 defenseman) and 2 loan situations. One call up was the starting goaltender and one loan was the back up. So they signed a goalie who was dismissed from his NCAA team for academic reasons and used a local guy who worked for the TSA.

It's just the nature of the beast in a "developmental" league. ECHL teams that have good relationships and a reputation for getting players a look at the AHL level will attract better non contracted players and the wheel will keep turning. For the fan in the stands it seems unfortunate but that's how it goes.

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04-18-2011, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny8242 View Post
The worst is when the NHL or AHL Affiliate want to send you someone but your team has no need for . I won't mention any names but Greenville had a player that had no place in our lineup and was only on the team for a few games used as a 10th forwards before being reassigned to a CHL team . Greenville has had a lot of scoring from the ECHL contracted guys not that the affiliated guys didn't play well for us . This was my first time since 05/06 following the ECHL closely but it seems like it would be the other way around (the nhl/ahl contracted guys leading the way ) but a lot of teams seem to be getting it done with their own guys. I hate loans I understand its great for the players which I'm glad for but nothing like seeing in the transactions list 3 or 4 players loaned up in one day.
Totally understand man. We got Jon Mirasty assigned to us, what a trip. I understand not finding anyone to fight him but he was a waste, he didn't even hit, he was later reassigned to Fort Wayne because of the "lack" of ice time. God, he's a 4th line player, how many minutes could he have expected?

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04-18-2011, 06:00 PM
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I'm not sure that having one or two affiliates makes much difference except maybe at playoff time if one of your AHL teams don't make the playoffs. Having only one affiliate can cause enough headaches for some of the better ECHL teams. Last season Idaho won the Brabham Cup and got a first round bye. They went 8-0 in the Conference Playoffs with Richard Bachman in the net and made the Kelly Cup Finals. Texas also made the Calder Cup Finals and needed to call up Bachman due to an injury to Brent Krahn before the Finals. Idaho was forced to go with "the other guy" in the finals and got rolled while Bachman didn't play a minute in Texas.

This season Idaho was forced to dress 8 defensemen and 7 forwards twice because of 5 call ups (4 forwards and 1 defenseman) and 2 loan situations. One call up was the starting goaltender and one loan was the back up. So they signed a goalie who was dismissed from his NCAA team for academic reasons and used a local guy who worked for the TSA.

It's just the nature of the beast in a "developmental" league. ECHL teams that have good relationships and a reputation for getting players a look at the AHL level will attract better non contracted players and the wheel will keep turning. For the fan in the stands it seems unfortunate but that's how it goes.
Didn't Idaho have/acquire a goalie who played illegally this season?(I think it was from Florida?)

I totally get what you mean on the dual affiliation. Ask reading last season how it works to have 2 AHL Affiliates bomb and miss the playoffs. I don't take the regular season that serious in this league. It's all about who/what you get back and just getting in.

Unfortunatly I know what you mean with this too. I wish we had a Johnstown/Trenton reputation where getting guys called up wasn't so much. heck, even Wheeling. Wheeling has NEVER been nor will it EVER be a desireable destination for guys who have a choice, although with WBS they've had quite the success.

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04-19-2011, 12:00 AM
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Didn't Idaho have/acquire a goalie who played illegally this season?(I think it was from Florida?)
I totally get what you mean on the dual affiliation. Ask reading last season how it works to have 2 AHL Affiliates bomb and miss the playoffs. I don't take the regular season that serious in this league. It's all about who/what you get back and just getting in.

Unfortunatly I know what you mean with this too. I wish we had a Johnstown/Trenton reputation where getting guys called up wasn't so much. heck, even Wheeling. Wheeling has NEVER been nor will it EVER be a desireable destination for guys who have a choice, although with WBS they've had quite the success.
Actually that whole deal was another fiasco. Texas has a CHL affiliate as well so because we had no goalie they assigned us Adrien Lemay who was playing in the CHL. He played 2 games, played great and won both games. Then the league "deemed" him illegal and gave the team the choice of forfeiting the 2 games and losing the 4 points or getting rid of the kid who was on loan when he came back. So they kept the Lemay and the 4 points and shipped Weslosky to Florida who turned right back around and traded him to Ontario. Now Lemay is our backup behind a kid who just finished his college career in the first round of the NCAA tournament because Texas still has our starter.

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04-19-2011, 07:23 AM
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Actually that whole deal was another fiasco. Texas has a CHL affiliate as well so because we had no goalie they assigned us Adrien Lemay who was playing in the CHL. He played 2 games, played great and won both games. Then the league "deemed" him illegal and gave the team the choice of forfeiting the 2 games and losing the 4 points or getting rid of the kid who was on loan when he came back. So they kept the Lemay and the 4 points and shipped Weslosky to Florida who turned right back around and traded him to Ontario. Now Lemay is our backup behind a kid who just finished his college career in the first round of the NCAA tournament because Texas still has our starter.
Why was he deemed "illegal"? Who was your starter this year? Was it Bachman again? Man it's little things like this that tick me off. AHL teams can stick players in the CHL if they so want to and all that stuff. That Lemay incident seems like some little unwritten rule that not many head coaches and all that probably know. That goof up is on Texas.

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04-19-2011, 10:34 AM
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Why was he deemed "illegal"? Who was your starter this year? Was it Bachman again? Man it's little things like this that tick me off. AHL teams can stick players in the CHL if they so want to and all that stuff. That Lemay incident seems like some little unwritten rule that not many head coaches and all that probably know. That goof up is on Texas.
I am assuming that it was because he had an existing CHL contract. The ECHL let him pass through the transaction process so I put some of that on them.

Tyler Beskorowany was supposed to be our starter all season but he only ended up playing 20 games here. He played 19 in Texas and played well after a rough start but I think Dallas would have rather had him play in a #1 roll for a team to help him develop. He didn't play enough games to qualify for the season stats but while he was here his save % would have ranked #1 and his GAA #4. The season would have gone totally different had we not had the goalie-go-round for two thirds of the season. The kid playing in the playoffs is playing well so that isn't going to be the downfall in the playoffs this year. Our two best defenseman are in Texas and Lake Erie right now and neither was on the Clear Day Rosters so they sit most of the time. That annoys me more than the rest of it. If they get called up and play that's great, but when they take them and don't play them that sucks.

But that's how it goes in this league. A few years back we were down 0-2 in the best of five first round and got Dan Ellis back the day of game 3. Took 3 straight against Vegas and went on to win the Kelly Cup and Ellis was the Kelly Cup MVP.

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04-23-2011, 09:12 AM
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I have heard whispers anyway that Bingo might be relocated to Canada, but of course I heard that last year as well.
This is the whisper you speak of:

http://prosportsblogging.com/nhl-hoc...n_to_cornwall/

That rumor was followed by the Hartford back to Binghamton rumor, so in any event, if it was true it would probably involve Elmira becoming a Ranger affiliate.

Although, as with any 'Rangers AHL back to New York' rumbling, take it with a grain of salt.

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04-23-2011, 01:56 PM
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This is the whisper you speak of:

http://prosportsblogging.com/nhl-hoc...n_to_cornwall/

That rumor was followed by the Hartford back to Binghamton rumor, so in any event, if it was true it would probably involve Elmira becoming a Ranger affiliate.

Although, as with any 'Rangers AHL back to New York' rumbling, take it with a grain of salt.
As much as I loathe the Rangers I would have taken that...

So is losing the AHL Club another step to get old man Baldwin's dream of the Whalers back in the NHL?

I also heard with the prospect of the Barclays Center opening up that the Rangers might look to try and buy Rochester and move them to Brooklyn. Makes some sense if the Americans go independent.

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