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Old
06-06-2011, 10:14 AM
  #276
The Wyzerhood
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
Much better how? Defensively, hes stupid. He is mobile and a shooter, though. Hes a less bad version of MAB.

Well while I agree with what you're saying, BB is a bad coach.
Much better as in not injury prone, and not just playing well in the playoffs. He'd also be more affordable than Bieksa and is almost 3 years younger.

Wisniewski has more physicality to his game than MAB and is more capable of playing bigger minutes. He's not a shut down guy, but can still line up well against the opposing team's second line. His biggest flaw defensively is that he goes out of position looking for the big hit, but I think this can be improved similar to Phaneuf's situation in TO. We have plenty of defensive defenseman in our current core (if we re-sign Brewer), so it's time to go for a mobile, offensive defenseman that can play 20+ minutes (ie not a PP specialist).


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06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
  #277
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If we are going to spend the money on defensemen, Ehrhoff gets my vote over Wis. But Wis wouldn't be a bad secondary option. This is how I would rate each defensemens likelyhood of playing with us next season.

All but assured:
Kubina
Ohlund
Hedman

Very likely:
Clark
Lundin

50/50:
Brewer
MAB
Jones
Ehrhoff

Probably not:
Bieksa
Wisniewski

Remote:
Joni Pitkanen

Very remote:
Salo
Kaberle

Not on my radar:
Everyone else

I think the rumblings of Clark being moved during the trade deadline weren't just press fodder, he has pretty good value and if Yzerman is looking to retool the defense I think we will see him dealt. Ehrhoff I believe is the guy who will be targeted this offseason, he is a great fit in the system because of his speed, size, and hockey sense.

Kaberle doesn't bring enough to warrant his price, but he is a PMD. Salo is on the radar because he is a righty with a booming shot, but his injury history and age should scare us off. Pitkanen is a good defenseman, but we are already slow on the blueline and he won't improve that any. Bieksa is probably the best defender of this crop, and is a righty shot who can put the puck on net. If he was faster I think he would be the one we go after this offseason. I would also give him a slight nod over Wisniewski, less offensive capability but a better all around defenseman. And likely cheaper.

Considering what we have on the team, I think size and physicality is the least of our issues, especially if we re-sign Brewer. A premium is going to be put on guys who are fast, and have good hockey sense(looking at you MAB).

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06-06-2011, 02:06 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
If we are going to spend the money on defensemen, Ehrhoff gets my vote over Wis. But Wis wouldn't be a bad secondary option. This is how I would rate each defensemens likelyhood of playing with us next season.

All but assured:
Kubina
Ohlund
Hedman

Very likely:
Clark
Lundin

50/50:
Brewer
MAB
Jones
Ehrhoff

Probably not:
Bieksa
Wisniewski

Remote:
Joni Pitkanen

Very remote:
Salo
Kaberle

Not on my radar:
Everyone else

I think the rumblings of Clark being moved during the trade deadline weren't just press fodder, he has pretty good value and if Yzerman is looking to retool the defense I think we will see him dealt. Ehrhoff I believe is the guy who will be targeted this offseason, he is a great fit in the system because of his speed, size, and hockey sense.

Kaberle doesn't bring enough to warrant his price, but he is a PMD. Salo is on the radar because he is a righty with a booming shot, but his injury history and age should scare us off. Pitkanen is a good defenseman, but we are already slow on the blueline and he won't improve that any. Bieksa is probably the best defender of this crop, and is a righty shot who can put the puck on net. If he was faster I think he would be the one we go after this offseason. I would also give him a slight nod over Wisniewski, less offensive capability but a better all around defenseman. And likely cheaper.

Considering what we have on the team, I think size and physicality is the least of our issues, especially if we re-sign Brewer. A premium is going to be put on guys who are fast, and have good hockey sense(looking at you MAB).
Ehrhoff is my first choice as well, but it's very unlikely SFY would sign him, since he'll be commanding 5 mil/season or more.

You completely ignore the fact that Bieksa has been injury prone for most of his career. In past seasons, he never lived up to the 3.75mil/season contract he was signed to. In fact, he was a regular in the rumor mill because of his underwhleming performances. He's still a good defender with all-around ability, but there's too many question marks surrounding his durability and he'd likely cost more than 5 mil/season on the open market.

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06-06-2011, 02:15 PM
  #279
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He won't get near 5 million, if he does, we can forget about signing Brewer since he'll be asking for more than that. His injury history is one reason why he won't get 5 million, injuries haven't stopped us in the past from adding players.

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06-06-2011, 03:34 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
He won't get near 5 million, if he does, we can forget about signing Brewer since he'll be asking for more than that. His injury history is one reason why he won't get 5 million, injuries haven't stopped us in the past from adding players.
Players who are available on the open market often get paid more than they are worth. Add in Bieksa's playoff performance into the equation, and it's reasonable to believe that GM's of contending/near contending teams will overpay to upgrade their top 4. Tampa will most likely not overpay a player on the open market this summer, because they have their own UFA's and RFA's as a higher priority.

Injury prone players should be a concern for teams looking to sign/trade for them. Just because they're labelled or known as injury-prone, has not stopped GM's from overpaying them in the past. Marian Gaborik got 37.5 million over 5 years, Martin Havlat got 30 million over 6 years, and there have been several other injury-prone players signed to big $$ too.

Brewer has not hit the open market yet, and seemed happy playing for Tampa. Generally players happy with the organization and environment they've already played in are more likely to take a small hometown discount below their market value.

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06-06-2011, 05:00 PM
  #281
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A few random thoughts in no particular order; 1)I have a feeling we could get Nitty back from SJ for almost nothing, ya know, a coupla pucks and some stick tape etc. They have Niemi and a ton of young guys coming up. Nitty played like 1 game after last December.

2)Gagne showed real heart playing through another concussion but it was still another concussion. He's proving to be injury prone, I have trouble thinking anyone offers him $5m. Do we take him back at $3.5-4m? I think so, I think it's realistic and works for both sides.

3)Ehrhoff would be absolutely great for our D core but we could use a RH shot back there and Wiz would likely be a little bit cheaper too. I'd be very happy with either one.

4)Are we going to be able to move one of Kubina or Ohlund? I don't think there will be any takers unless we just give them away, which wouldn't be awful in the case of Kubina.

5)I want Surge and Purcell around for a long time. I also want Malone and Downie to go through two consecutive months of hockey without being banged up to the point that it affects their game rather obviously.

6)If Stamkos demands more than $6m, let him walk

7)Let's sincerely investigate the possibility of Tomas Vokoun. Yeah, he'll likely want $2-$3m more than Rolly but he's 7 or 8 years younger and could probably keep us set up in net until Tokarski is fully groomed in around 2 more seasons.

8)Please get Hedman a strength coach. I'm tired of seeing him tossed around by Fedotenko etc. When you've got 6 inches and 30 lbs on someone, you shouldn't be getting rag-dolled.

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06-06-2011, 05:24 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
Ehrhoff is my first choice as well, but it's very unlikely SFY would sign him, since he'll be commanding 5 mil/season or more.

You completely ignore the fact that Bieksa has been injury prone for most of his career. In past seasons, he never lived up to the 3.75mil/season contract he was signed to. In fact, he was a regular in the rumor mill because of his underwhleming performances. He's still a good defender with all-around ability, but there's too many question marks surrounding his durability and he'd likely cost more than 5 mil/season on the open market.
That and he has only put together one exceptional half year.

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06-06-2011, 06:55 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
That and he has only put together one exceptional half year.
Which makes me even more curious why some think he is going to get 5 million. UFA or not

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06-06-2011, 07:12 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
Which makes me even more curious why some think he is going to get 5 million. UFA or not
The only thing that is curious, is how you can question that. Why did Kubina make 5 mil/year with the Leafs? Why is Campbell making 7 mil/year? Why is Redden making 6.5 mil/year? Why is Finger making 3.5 mil/year? Etc, etc.

Get with the times, GM's constantly overpay players once they hit free agency.

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06-06-2011, 11:10 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
The only thing that is curious, is how you can question that. Why did Kubina make 5 mil/year with the Leafs? Why is Campbell making 7 mil/year? Why is Redden making 6.5 mil/year? Why is Finger making 3.5 mil/year? Etc, etc.

Get with the times, GM's constantly overpay players once they hit free agency.
Your right, I've never witnessed an offseason before. Those are great examples you used of your typical offseason signing, point is conceded.

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06-07-2011, 12:11 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
Your right, I've never witnessed an offseason before. Those are great examples you used of your typical offseason signing, point is conceded.
Ron Hainsey - 4.5 mil/season
Cory Sarich - 3.6 mil/season
John-Michael Liles - 4.2 mil/season
Mike Commodore - 3.75 mil/season
Sheldon Souray - 5.4 mil/season
Willie Mitchell - 3.5 mil/season
Rob Scuderi - 3.4 mil/season
Roman Hamrlik - 5.5 mil/season
Jaroslav Spacek - 3.383 mil/season
Henrik Tallinder - 3.375 mil/season
Sergei Gonchar - 5.5 mil/season
Andrej Meszaros - 4 mil/season
Michal Rozsival - 5 mil/season
Paul Martin - 5 mil/season
Ed Jovanovski - 6.5 mil/season
Brett Lebda - 1.45 mil/season
Mike Komisarek - 4.5 mil/season
Scott Hannan - 4.5 mil/season

Vladimir Malakhov - 3.6 mil/season
Dmitri Mironov - 2.75 mil/season
Darius Kasparaitis - 4.1 mil/season
Derian Hatcher - 3.5 mil/season
Hal Gill - 2.075 mil/season
Dan McGillis - 2.2 mil/season

I haven't even begun the list of overpaid forwards and goaltenders since the list would take days to compile, but that's most of the UFA defenseman that were ever available in the league that clearly signed for more than their actual value (in addition to the smaller list I had above). Several of these players were injury prone and most of them were coming off good years before signing their overpriced deals. Most of the defenseman in the league that are signed to reasonable/market value contracts are generally because they were re-signed by their current teams. If you still question whether or not Bieksa could receive 5 mil/season then you might need that help you requested.


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Old
06-07-2011, 02:01 AM
  #287
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One thing is for sure, im glad Yzerman handles this and not we

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Old
06-07-2011, 04:17 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
Ron Hainsey - 4.5 mil/season
Cory Sarich - 3.6 mil/season
John-Michael Liles - 4.2 mil/season
Mike Commodore - 3.75 mil/season
Sheldon Souray - 5.4 mil/season
Willie Mitchell - 3.5 mil/season
Rob Scuderi - 3.4 mil/season
Roman Hamrlik - 5.5 mil/season
Jaroslav Spacek - 3.383 mil/season
Henrik Tallinder - 3.375 mil/season
Sergei Gonchar - 5.5 mil/season
Andrej Meszaros - 4 mil/season
Michal Rozsival - 5 mil/season
Paul Martin - 5 mil/season
Ed Jovanovski - 6.5 mil/season
Brett Lebda - 1.45 mil/season
Mike Komisarek - 4.5 mil/season
Scott Hannan - 4.5 mil/season

Vladimir Malakhov - 3.6 mil/season
Dmitri Mironov - 2.75 mil/season
Darius Kasparaitis - 4.1 mil/season
Derian Hatcher - 3.5 mil/season
Hal Gill - 2.075 mil/season
Dan McGillis - 2.2 mil/season

I haven't even begun the list of overpaid forwards and goaltenders since the list would take days to compile, but that's most of the UFA defenseman that were ever available in the league that clearly signed for more than their actual value (in addition to the smaller list I had above). Several of these players were injury prone and most of them were coming off good years before signing their overpriced deals. Most of the defenseman in the league that are signed to reasonable/market value contracts are generally because they were re-signed by their current teams. If you still question whether or not Bieksa could receive 5 mil/season then you might need that help you requested.
Free agents typically are overpaid on the open market? In other news, water is wet. That doesn't change my point that Bieksa probably will not get 5 million. He isn't in the same league as the guys on your list who exceeded 5 million.

Yeah, he could get it, There is always that possibility. The Jeff Finger signing trumps all form of rational thought on the subject, idiot GM's exist. I just don't think it is realistic to expect him to get it, especially considering the depth of guys who should get more money than him that will also be free agents.

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06-07-2011, 09:37 PM
  #289
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Looking at the salary charts, there are some teams that have some players to sign but realistically need to dump some cap. Philly, Calgary, Chicago, Boston, New Jersey and San Jose have some open spots in their lineup and have some key guys to re-sign. Do any of those teams seem like good trading partners for a blueliner? San Jose probably not, but there are several defenseman that could be dangled from the above teams. I still am not opposed to the idea of dealing Purcell, and if we did deal him, we'd be saving some money as opposed to paying big bucks in the FA market. As we know, an extra 1.5-2 mil could come in handy for big things. I think if we were to do that and let Gagne walk, we'd have room to keep the goaltending situation stable, sign Richards, and get another quality forward.

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06-07-2011, 09:42 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
Free agents typically are overpaid on the open market? In other news, water is wet. That doesn't change my point that Bieksa probably will not get 5 million. He isn't in the same league as the guys on your list who exceeded 5 million.
You're the one arguing that Bieksa wouldn't be overpaid. He's already making 3.75 mil/year, it's not unbelievable that a desperate GM would pay him 5 million.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
Yeah, he could get it, There is always that possibility. The Jeff Finger signing trumps all form of rational thought on the subject, idiot GM's exist. I just don't think it is realistic to expect him to get it, especially considering the depth of guys who should get more money than him that will also be free agents.
That's all I ever was saying, I never said he will get 5 mil/year. There aren't too many under 30 top 4 all-around defenseman available in free agency this year at all. I don't see the depth of guys ahead of him that will get more money in unrestricted free agency.

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06-07-2011, 09:44 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by The Alaskan Assassin View Post
Looking at the salary charts, there are some teams that have some players to sign but realistically need to dump some cap. Philly, Calgary, Chicago, Boston, New Jersey and San Jose have some open spots in their lineup and have some key guys to re-sign. Do any of those teams seem like good trading partners for a blueliner? San Jose probably not, but there are several defenseman that could be dangled from the above teams. I still am not opposed to the idea of dealing Purcell, and if we did deal him, we'd be saving some money as opposed to paying big bucks in the FA market. As we know, an extra 1.5-2 mil could come in handy for big things. I think if we were to do that and let Gagne walk, we'd have room to keep the goaltending situation stable, sign Richards, and get another quality forward.
Philly makes the most sense since they now have Bryzgalov's negotiating rights. If we could pry Coburn out of Philly that would be ideal. Though Carle failed his first time in Tampa (under Melrose mind you), I think he'd be a great fit in Boucher's system and would add some much needed mobility.

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06-07-2011, 09:55 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
Free agents typically are overpaid on the open market? In other news, water is wet. That doesn't change my point that Bieksa probably will not get 5 million. He isn't in the same league as the guys on your list who exceeded 5 million.

Yeah, he could get it, There is always that possibility. The Jeff Finger signing trumps all form of rational thought on the subject, idiot GM's exist. I just don't think it is realistic to expect him to get it, especially considering the depth of guys who should get more money than him that will also be free agents.
OMG...you called Burkie an idiot...isn't that sacrilege?

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06-07-2011, 10:21 PM
  #293
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OMG...you called Burkie an idiot...isn't that sacrilege?
I actually like Burke(as long as he stops poaching RFA's), GM's like him make movement wire exciting to watch. Burke can thank Peter Chiarelli for helping him redeem himself through the Kaberle deal. What an awful trade that was.

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06-07-2011, 11:28 PM
  #294
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IF...

The cap is 63.5 as some are projecting
Richards will take a big discount
Roloson and Brewer stick around for a little less
Lundin and Bergenheim combined make 3 mil or less next season
We trade Clark(for a pick) and Purcell (Philly)
Tokarski or Desjardins becomes backup
FA imports Reasoner, Asham, Pardy take what they made last year
Payroll goes close to the cap
Stamkos has a cap hit between 6.5-7 which I think is very likely

A 22 man roster similar to the following (extra fw, extra d-man) could be possible

Downie(1,850,000)Stamkos(6,750,000)St. Louis(5,250,000)
Malone(4,500,000)Richards(6,750,000)Lecavalier(7,7 27,273)
Bergenheim(1,500,000)Moore(1,100,000)Reasoner(1,15 0,000)
Tyrell(845,833)Thompson(900,000)Jones(550,000)
Asham(700,000)

Lundin(1,500,000)Brewer(4,000,000)
Hedman(3,500,000)Coburn(3,200,000)
Ohlund(3,607,143)Kubina(3,850,000)
Pardy(700,000)

Roloson(2,000,000)
Tokarski(672,222)

Including the buyouts to Fedoruk and Prospal, the payroll would come to 63,394,138.

I didn't make this to suggest it's likely, but I think it does show that we can actually fulfill our needs and make some pretty big acquisitions. Please note that I am bored and do not expect this to happen. However, if the circumstances are right, Tampa could be an alluring enough destination to pull off a beastly lineup.

Now shred it to bits.

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06-08-2011, 12:10 AM
  #295
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Brent Burns would be nice as well if he's really available.

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06-08-2011, 12:11 AM
  #296
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Not a big fan of Coburn. And I doubt Philly trades defense for a forward if that's what your suggesting. They need to deal away a forward, not gain one especially if they sign Bryzgalov who won't be cheap if they get it done. One of Versteeg, Leino, or Carter/Hartnell will be traded/not re-signed if Bryz is signed.

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06-08-2011, 12:42 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
Philly makes the most sense since they now have Bryzgalov's negotiating rights. If we could pry Coburn out of Philly that would be ideal. Though Carle failed his first time in Tampa (under Melrose mind you), I think he'd be a great fit in Boucher's system and would add some much needed mobility.
I don't think SFY goes this route, but Carle is the more tempting option if Brewer returns. If not, Coburn would probably be a fine option to replace Brewer, IMO.

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06-08-2011, 12:50 AM
  #298
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Brent Burns would be nice as well if he's really available.
Understatement of the year. ;-)

Not really sold on Minnesota crossing that bridge yet. Burns' value will probably be highest as the trade deadline approaches, at which time, especially if the Wild is guaranteed or probably going to miss the playoffs (again), Minnesota brass will probably be heavily weighing their options.

This is when I see SFY most likely to strike for Burns. If he's even willing to pay the price (in picks/prospects, which Minnesota will be far likelier to accept at this stage of the season).

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06-08-2011, 02:21 AM
  #299
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Not a big fan of Coburn. And I doubt Philly trades defense for a forward if that's what your suggesting. They need to deal away a forward, not gain one especially if they sign Bryzgalov who won't be cheap if they get it done. One of Versteeg, Leino, or Carter/Hartnell will be traded/not re-signed if Bryz is signed.
My thinking is that they ditch at least one forward and probably are unable to re-sign another. Purcell will come cheap and could help to replace the offense of a guy like Hartnell/Versteeg/Carter if he were dealt and would save the Flyers millions.I used Coburn just as an example, and to be honest I'm not high on him at all. There are other guys out there like Hjalmarsson, Regehr, Burns etc that are around the 3-4mil range and have a year left on their deals, Coburn was just the first that came to mind.

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06-08-2011, 05:02 AM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alaskan Assassin View Post
IF...

The cap is 63.5 as some are projecting
Richards will take a big discount
Roloson and Brewer stick around for a little less
Lundin and Bergenheim combined make 3 mil or less next season
We trade Clark(for a pick) and Purcell (Philly)
Tokarski or Desjardins becomes backup
FA imports Reasoner, Asham, Pardy take what they made last year
Payroll goes close to the cap
Stamkos has a cap hit between 6.5-7 which I think is very likely

A 22 man roster similar to the following (extra fw, extra d-man) could be possible

Downie(1,850,000)Stamkos(6,750,000)St. Louis(5,250,000)
Malone(4,500,000)Richards(6,750,000)Lecavalier(7,7 27,273)
Bergenheim(1,500,000)Moore(1,100,000)Reasoner(1,15 0,000)
Tyrell(845,833)Thompson(900,000)Jones(550,000)
Asham(700,000)

Lundin(1,500,000)Brewer(4,000,000)
Hedman(3,500,000)Coburn(3,200,000)
Ohlund(3,607,143)Kubina(3,850,000)
Pardy(700,000)

Roloson(2,000,000)
Tokarski(672,222)

Including the buyouts to Fedoruk and Prospal, the payroll would come to 63,394,138.

I didn't make this to suggest it's likely, but I think it does show that we can actually fulfill our needs and make some pretty big acquisitions. Please note that I am bored and do not expect this to happen. However, if the circumstances are right, Tampa could be an alluring enough destination to pull off a beastly lineup.

Now shred it to bits.
You managed to weaken our current team

If we are to ditch money on a d-man he must be able to contribute offensivly.

Maelmoor is offline  
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