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Old
05-30-2011, 06:39 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Something I've been thinking about- When you put in Blair Jones over Hall, you get a little more grit, a guy who fights a little more, can make some bigger hits, has a better slap shot and maybe better offensive upside if he can finally get that working at the NHL level, but you lose some very important things with Hall. Hall is a big part of our penalty kill. He was 14th in shorthand time/game and 10th in shorthanded time overall as a forward. He is a great shot blocker (26th most as a forward) and one of our better faceoff guys. You could also say that 4th line works so well because of the chemistry he has with Tyrell playing on a line together now for the past 2 seasons. With Jones you get an upgrade in overall player, but you lose a lot in the role Hall does for this team.
I don't see it being an issue to be honest. Don't get me wrong, Hall did his job very well, but I think his importance is a little overblown. Guy gave him the ice time in certain situations, and Hall went with it. There is no doubt in my mind Jones can be an effective penalty killer, and he can also take faceoffs. Our unit as a whole made our PK strong, not just one player.

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05-30-2011, 06:41 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by stammerhammer91 View Post
someone just has to teach tyrell that it is ok to try to skate past the defenseman and go for goal instead of chip it in the zone, but he is going to get better and better.
I guess someone taught him this before game 7 against Boston because he did it a few times in that game. Obviously his injury and inexperience played a role, but I was surprised he didn't see more ice time in that game considering he had more jump than some other guys on the team.

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05-30-2011, 06:56 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by The Alaskan Assassin View Post
I don't see it being an issue to be honest. Don't get me wrong, Hall did his job very well, but I think his importance is a little overblown. Guy gave him the ice time in certain situations, and Hall went with it. There is no doubt in my mind Jones can be an effective penalty killer, and he can also take faceoffs. Our unit as a whole made our PK strong, not just one player.
I don't know who you think has been overrating Hall. He's been trending downwards on here. Hard.

As I see it, Hall is a role player, but that shouldn't be confused for expendability. He's a very complete player, if lacking on high end skill.

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05-30-2011, 08:11 PM
  #179
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Purcell as a power forward, lol. Oh and it wouldn't be Eklund without a "Stamkos to Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver/Big Market team" rumor...

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05-30-2011, 08:13 PM
  #180
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After breakthrough season, Tampa Bay Lightning face tough off-season questions

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...son-questions/

"Steven Stamkos (restricted free agent – previous cap hit: $3.725 million) – How much will the Lightning need to pay Stamkos, a 21-year-old forward who posted two 90+ point seasons, with 51 goals in 2009-10 and 45 in 10-11? If you ask me, the Lightning would have been better off signing him soon after July 1, 2010, before the league really started clamping down on “loophole” contracts with Ilya Kovalchuk. Don’t be surprised if Stamkos shoots for a Vincent Lecavalier-level $7 million+ salary cap contract, although Yzerman will probably try to point him closer to Martin St. Louis‘ $5.25 million annual cap hit.

Either way, the days of getting Stamkos’ production for less than they pay Ryan Malone ($4.5 million) are over.

Dwayne Roloson and Mike Smith (unrestricted free agents – previously registered $2.5 million cap hits each) – Both of the goalies the Lightning started during the Eastern Conference finals will be unrestricted free agents on July 1. The 41-year-old Roloson won’t require a long-term deal while Smith will probably take a pay cut after failing to stick as a No. 1 goalie, so neither netminder should be super-pricey. Neither seem like iron-clad solutions in net, either, though. Will Yzerman opt to shoot for a free agent goalie such as Ilya Bryzgalov or Tomas Vokoun instead?

Simon Gagne (unrestricted – previously $5.25 million) – When healthy, Gagne is an asset, especially in the playoffs (12 points in 15 postseason games in 2011; 12 in 19 in 2010). The questions are: how healthy can the Lightning expect him to be and what kind of term is he looking for? At 31-years-old, Gagne could reasonably ask for a 5-6 year deal and get it (somewhere). I’m just not sure if Tampa Bay would be that place.

Teddy Purcell (restricted – previously $750K) and Sean Bergenheim (unrestricted – previously $700K) – Stamkos, Gagne and the goalies were predictable problems for Yzerman. How many people saw the red-hot playoff runs by Purcell (six goals, 17 points) and Bergenheim (nine goals, 11 points) coming, though? Bergenheim might make more money since he’s an unrestricted free agent and received more buzz from the hockey media (despite scoring six fewer points)."

"Eric Brewer (unrestricted – previously $4.25 million) – A lot of people thought Brewer was “done” before the St. Louis Blues traded him to the Lightning, yet he lead a shaky Tampa Bay defense in ice time with 25:42 minutes per game in the postseason. That’s about 3:30 more per game than the second leading skater, Victor Hedman. Brewer is likely to take a pay cut with his next contract, but he probably regained some bargaining power during the playoff run."

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Old
05-30-2011, 08:28 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alaskan Assassin View Post
I don't see it being an issue to be honest. Don't get me wrong, Hall did his job very well, but I think his importance is a little overblown. Guy gave him the ice time in certain situations, and Hall went with it. There is no doubt in my mind Jones can be an effective penalty killer, and he can also take faceoffs. Our unit as a whole made our PK strong, not just one player.
Tocchet put Jones out there in important penalty kills last season. He put him on the ice 5-on-5 as a shutdown guy at the end of games. He's done it in the past, so I agree Jones could definitely be put out there on our pk without anyone worrying. But would it be as good or better? Our pk was a huge strength of ours. It wasn't just good, it was dominant. Yes they work as a unit of 4 or 3 guys out there, but Halls the guy starting it all off taking the faceoff. Only Kesler and Bergeron won more faceoffs on the penalty kill in the playoffs than Hall. Hall is tied for the most blocked shots as a forward in the playoffs. If you were taking Tyrell, Moore, or Bergenheim off the pk I don't think it would be a problem, but if you're swapping Thompson or Hall out I think it would be. Hall might be our best pker. So without him yeah it could still be good, but maybe not as good.

I don't think his importance is overblown either. Hall might have been the least talked about player on our team this year. He doesn't get a lot of credit. It's part of being a 4th line/pker I guess where you do the hard and dirty jobs, the little things that don't get noticed as much. This team won't die without him but to quote Guy Boucher, our 4th line guys "...carry the culture of the team. They represent a lot of things we want to do."

I originally had Jones making this team back in the fall over Hall. I had a couple guys making this team over Hall. But I think on this team where everybody plays a certain part, he has done his very well. I think it would be easier if Jones replaced someone else or was this year's Ritola and did what he did as the extra forward. I'm a fan of Jones and I want him to make it, but I'm not sure Hall is the guy to take out because of it. I also think though that it could be if the rest of the roster returns, all the fights during training camp could be for a spot as the 12 and 13th forward.

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Old
05-30-2011, 09:18 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Tocchet put Jones out there in important penalty kills last season. He put him on the ice 5-on-5 as a shutdown guy at the end of games. He's done it in the past, so I agree Jones could definitely be put out there on our pk without anyone worrying. But would it be as good or better? Our pk was a huge strength of ours. It wasn't just good, it was dominant. Yes they work as a unit of 4 or 3 guys out there, but Halls the guy starting it all off taking the faceoff. Only Kesler and Bergeron won more faceoffs on the penalty kill in the playoffs than Hall. Hall is tied for the most blocked shots as a forward in the playoffs. If you were taking Tyrell, Moore, or Bergenheim off the pk I don't think it would be a problem, but if you're swapping Thompson or Hall out I think it would be. Hall might be our best pker. So without him yeah it could still be good, but maybe not as good.

I don't think his importance is overblown either. Hall might have been the least talked about player on our team this year. He doesn't get a lot of credit. It's part of being a 4th line/pker I guess where you do the hard and dirty jobs, the little things that don't get noticed as much. This team won't die without him but to quote Guy Boucher, our 4th line guys "...carry the culture of the team. They represent a lot of things we want to do."

I originally had Jones making this team back in the fall over Hall. I had a couple guys making this team over Hall. But I think on this team where everybody plays a certain part, he has done his very well. I think it would be easier if Jones replaced someone else or was this year's Ritola and did what he did as the extra forward. I'm a fan of Jones and I want him to make it, but I'm not sure Hall is the guy to take out because of it. I also think though that it could be if the rest of the roster returns, all the fights during training camp could be for a spot as the 12 and 13th forward.
I don't think losing Hall will make our PK suffer. He's a pretty average grinder with a great work ethic who was given ice time in some key situations. If Guy decides to put that role upon another player, I think it will be just as successful. Our PK was great all season whether Hall was out there or not.

I remember when people were saying a while back that our PK might suffer because Randy Jones was our best defenseman at killing penalties (this is when he got injured). As it turned out, our PK numbers were actually better without him, and this includes the playoffs. I'm not saying that he was holding the unit back in any ways, but I think it's another example of how we don't necessarily need a certain guy to be successful at killing penalties, no matter how much time that player spent on the ice a man down.

This team has many players who can kill penalties just fine, and I don't think Hall's departure will prove to be a big loss.

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Old
05-31-2011, 02:11 AM
  #183
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I think the final combination of our 4th line will be more interesting than our top-6 or even top-9. We have a couple of very determined role players with tremendous skills in certain areas as faceoffs, PK, board play, etc that it really could be anybody. Out of Thompson there are one, max two spots open for Hall, Tyrell and Jones. Each of those three offers a different style of play though.

I agree that Hall's accomplishments get overseen, especially by the media. I was very surprised at first when I saw him taking faceoffs over our designated centers, and I was even more surprised when I saw how good he was at it (1st on the team in the regular season with 55% / 2nd in the playoffs with 57.2%). This is especially important on the PK when either Hall or Thompson get tossed and the other one steps in and takes the draw just as good. That's a neat little advantage. And we shouldn't forget that he's another player with leadership and veteran qualities on this team. Can't get enough of those.

Tyrell offers speed like noone else on the team. Man, the kid got wheels! And don't forget: It was just his first year with the big guys and scoring more goals etc will come eventually. 4th line duties are not his ceiling.

Jones brings grit and physicality, an aspect this team lacks outside of Malone and Downie (HM: Ohlund; Brewer). I think that's why many around here, including myself, would like to see him on the team next year. He provides a nice allaround package: He's sound defensively, gritty and just as good at faceoffs (smaller sample size but still: 53.5% during regular season, 3rd on the team / 50% during playoffs, 4th).

I could see all three of them make the team (provided Hall gets another year or two) with Boucher switching healthy scratches. We had a pretty good run with 12F/6D during the playoffs so why not.

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05-31-2011, 05:22 AM
  #184
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I could see all three of them make the team (provided Hall gets another year or two) with Boucher switching healthy scratches. We had a pretty good run with 12F/6D during the playoffs so why not.
We also had a pretty good run with 11F/7D.

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Old
05-31-2011, 05:29 AM
  #185
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That is a good point about Hall on the PK. But IMO the key guy on our PK was Thompson, I mean so glad to have him re-signed. He was an absolute machine on it, beyond that we have Moore to centre the other PK unit.

Personally I think Tyrell should be given some more PK time, or it depends how they want to develop him, do they see his ceiling as a 2nd/3rd line tweener, or a scoring line winger. And give him PP/PK time accordingly. I enjoyed watching Tyrell on the PK, solid defensively and always a SH threat.

Edit: Am I the only one that wants to see the odd Vinny/Marty SH combo at the end of PKs?

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05-31-2011, 06:22 AM
  #186
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That is a good point about Hall on the PK. But IMO the key guy on our PK was Thompson, I mean so glad to have him re-signed. He was an absolute machine on it, beyond that we have Moore to centre the other PK unit.

Personally I think Tyrell should be given some more PK time, or it depends how they want to develop him, do they see his ceiling as a 2nd/3rd line tweener, or a scoring line winger. And give him PP/PK time accordingly. I enjoyed watching Tyrell on the PK, solid defensively and always a SH threat.

Edit: Am I the only one that wants to see the odd Vinny/Marty SH combo at the end of PKs?
Who doesn't?


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Old
05-31-2011, 11:00 AM
  #187
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That is a good point about Hall on the PK. But IMO the key guy on our PK was Thompson, I mean so glad to have him re-signed. He was an absolute machine on it, beyond that we have Moore to centre the other PK unit.

Personally I think Tyrell should be given some more PK time, or it depends how they want to develop him, do they see his ceiling as a 2nd/3rd line tweener, or a scoring line winger. And give him PP/PK time accordingly. I enjoyed watching Tyrell on the PK, solid defensively and always a SH threat.

Edit: Am I the only one that wants to see the odd Vinny/Marty SH combo at the end of PKs?
Tyrell should be given more pk time. I would like to see him notch some shorthanded goals for us. He has the speed and had a couple chances to do so. I can't complain about the job our pk does, but it would be nice to get a few more sh goals. Tyrell scored a couple in the WHL.

Speaking of sh goals, did anyone know Marty was tied for 23rd all time in shorthanded goals with 28? I'd love to see him get some more time on the pk, but Boucher said during the Boston series he doesn't like using the skilled players on the pk.

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05-31-2011, 11:13 AM
  #188
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If Stevie Y doesn't do everything he can to keep Stammer, I'm going to start a riot in Tampa.
Let me know where to meet you, ALL IN. We can start from the forum and work our way out!

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05-31-2011, 11:20 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Tyrell should be given more pk time. I would like to see him notch some shorthanded goals for us. He has the speed and had a couple chances to do so. I can't complain about the job our pk does, but it would be nice to get a few more sh goals. Tyrell scored a couple in the WHL.

Speaking of sh goals, did anyone know Marty was tied for 23rd all time in shorthanded goals with 28? I'd love to see him get some more time on the pk, but Boucher said during the Boston series he doesn't like using the skilled players on the pk.
Thought I remembered him being a SH threat in the WHL. Did not realise that , I mean I agree with the theory you want your best players rested for ES/PP, but 20 seconds left on the PK, probably facing 2nd PP unit he should put Vinny and Marty out, both good defensively (feels weird writing that about Vinny ), but both a threat for SH goals and especially so given their chemistry which IMO is one of the most important things about a PK unit.

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05-31-2011, 01:33 PM
  #190
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NHL Trade/Free Agent Talk: 13 Players You'd Be Shocked Are on the Market

http://*******************/articles/...rce=newsletter

"Stamkos is not only the best player on the Lightning, he is arguably the best player in the league. "

"Blues fans were shocked when Brewer was traded, and whoever lands Brewer next season will be very happy because they are getting a very quality defenseman."

Gagne:
"Last season in Tampa, he scored 17 goals and finished the season with 40 points. He was another soon-to-be free agent for the Lightning who contributed greatly in the playoffs. He scored five goals and tallied seven assists in the 15 playoff games the Lightning played."

3 out of 13 from ONE team?

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05-31-2011, 02:25 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by ultra63 View Post
http://*******************/articles/...rce=newsletter

"Stamkos is not only the best player on the Lightning, he is arguably the best player in the league. "

"Blues fans were shocked when Brewer was traded, and whoever lands Brewer next season will be very happy because they are getting a very quality defenseman."

Gagne:
"Last season in Tampa, he scored 17 goals and finished the season with 40 points. He was another soon-to-be free agent for the Lightning who contributed greatly in the playoffs. He scored five goals and tallied seven assists in the 15 playoff games the Lightning played."

3 out of 13 from ONE team?
But Stamkos isn't even the best player on his team...

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05-31-2011, 02:43 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by ultra63 View Post
http://*******************/articles/...rce=newsletter

"Stamkos is not only the best player on the Lightning, he is arguably the best player in the league. "

"Blues fans were shocked when Brewer was traded, and whoever lands Brewer next season will be very happy because they are getting a very quality defenseman."

Gagne:
"Last season in Tampa, he scored 17 goals and finished the season with 40 points. He was another soon-to-be free agent for the Lightning who contributed greatly in the playoffs. He scored five goals and tallied seven assists in the 15 playoff games the Lightning played."

3 out of 13 from ONE team?
The guy who wrote that article is an idiot. Quite frankly I'm 'shocked that was even published. I mean who actually let's their RFA and UFA contracts go until after an ECF appearance? Shocking.

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Old
05-31-2011, 04:05 PM
  #193
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If Brooks Laich makes it to free agency, he'd be a great signing at the right price (under 4 million). He brings another element of toughness, grit and scoring that this team is lacking. Brewer was great for us in the post-season but we still need a smooth skating puck mover like Ehrhoff (not likely going to happen). Bieksa would be a back-up option or Carle on Philadelphia would be interesting if they trade a player to make room for a goaltending upgrade, as rumored.

Roloson was great for us in the playoffs and I see Yzerman giving him a chance in the coming year. His salary will be at a respectable figure due to his age, and it will give us one more season to see if Tokarski wilk be ready for the pros in 2012-13. If not, hopefully one of Bernier, Schneider or Varlamov/Holtby become available and we offer a package of prospects/picks that can entice their teams to move them.

Thus, Gagne, Hall, Bergeron, Randy Jones out and Laich, Blair Jones and one of Ehrhoff/Bieksa/Carle in unless we re-sign Brewer.

Projected 2011-12 lineup:

Malone-Stamkos (6.5 mil/year)-St.Louis
Laich (3.8 mil/year)-Lecavalier-Purcell (2.3 mil/year)
Bergenheim (1.3 mil/year)-Moore-Downie
Tyrell-Thompson-B.Jones (0.7 mil/year)

Ohlund-Bieksa/Carle/Brewer (3.5-4.5 mil/year)
Hedman-Kubina
Lundin-Clark

Roloson (2.8 mil/year)
Smith/Desjardins/FA Signing or Trade for a backup (0.7-2 mil/year)

Salary Cap - $59,946,916 / Projected Cap - $63,500,000

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05-31-2011, 04:32 PM
  #194
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Theres a reason bleacher report gets starred out when you try to add .com. The articles are written by people with zero information.

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05-31-2011, 04:32 PM
  #195
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We already went the Carle route once, not doing that again.

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05-31-2011, 04:58 PM
  #196
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If Brooks Laich makes it to free agency, he'd be a great signing at the right price (under 4 million). He brings another element of toughness, grit and scoring that this team is lacking. Brewer was great for us in the post-season but we still need a smooth skating puck mover like Ehrhoff (not likely going to happen). Bieksa would be a back-up option or Carle on Philadelphia would be interesting if they trade a player to make room for a goaltending upgrade, as rumored.

Roloson was great for us in the playoffs and I see Yzerman giving him a chance in the coming year. His salary will be at a respectable figure due to his age, and it will give us one more season to see if Tokarski wilk be ready for the pros in 2012-13. If not, hopefully one of Bernier, Schneider or Varlamov/Holtby become available and we offer a package of prospects/picks that can entice their teams to move them.

Thus, Gagne, Hall, Bergeron, Randy Jones out and Laich, Blair Jones and one of Ehrhoff/Bieksa/Carle in unless we re-sign Brewer.

Projected 2011-12 lineup:

Malone-Stamkos (6.5 mil/year)-St.Louis
Laich (3.8 mil/year)-Lecavalier-Purcell (2.3 mil/year)
Bergenheim (1.3 mil/year)-Moore-Downie
Tyrell-Thompson-B.Jones (0.7 mil/year)

Ohlund-Bieksa/Carle/Brewer (3.5-4.5 mil/year)
Hedman-Kubina
Lundin-Clark

Roloson (2.8 mil/year)
Smith/Desjardins/FA Signing or Trade for a backup (0.7-2 mil/year)

Salary Cap - $59,946,916 / Projected Cap - $63,500,000
I'd sign Brewer and then another defense-man, Kubina/Ohlund can be the 7th defense-man

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05-31-2011, 05:28 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
If Brooks Laich makes it to free agency, he'd be a great signing at the right price (under 4 million). He brings another element of toughness, grit and scoring that this team is lacking. Brewer was great for us in the post-season but we still need a smooth skating puck mover like Ehrhoff (not likely going to happen). Bieksa would be a back-up option or Carle on Philadelphia would be interesting if they trade a player to make room for a goaltending upgrade, as rumored.

Roloson was great for us in the playoffs and I see Yzerman giving him a chance in the coming year. His salary will be at a respectable figure due to his age, and it will give us one more season to see if Tokarski wilk be ready for the pros in 2012-13. If not, hopefully one of Bernier, Schneider or Varlamov/Holtby become available and we offer a package of prospects/picks that can entice their teams to move them.

Thus, Gagne, Hall, Bergeron, Randy Jones out and Laich, Blair Jones and one of Ehrhoff/Bieksa/Carle in unless we re-sign Brewer.

Projected 2011-12 lineup:

Malone-Stamkos (6.5 mil/year)-St.Louis
Laich (3.8 mil/year)-Lecavalier-Purcell (2.3 mil/year)
Bergenheim (1.3 mil/year)-Moore-Downie
Tyrell-Thompson-B.Jones (0.7 mil/year)

Ohlund-Bieksa/Carle/Brewer (3.5-4.5 mil/year)
Hedman-Kubina
Lundin-Clark

Roloson (2.8 mil/year)
Smith/Desjardins/FA Signing or Trade for a backup (0.7-2 mil/year)

Salary Cap - $59,946,916 / Projected Cap - $63,500,000
Replace Laich with Richards and you are set.

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05-31-2011, 06:31 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by fairweather26 View Post
Replace Laich with Richards and you are set.
Even though Richards could sign at a discount, it'd still be around 5 mil/year. If you're going to tie up that much money in 4 players, you can guarantee Tampa will have the same issues they did when they first traded Boyle and Richards. If Richards signs here, then say goodbye to either Vinny or Stammer; there'll be no supporting cast around them either. We need more toughness up front, and if we can add a guy who can do it all and put the puck in the net, we should try our best to get him.

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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
We already went the Carle route once, not doing that again.
Completely forgot about that, but I still feel like we need an upgrade over Brewer. He was a great shut down guy, but we need a better skater and someone who can create some offense. There's a big issue when your top scoring defenseman is Brett Clark, not to mention I don't want to suffer through the Bergeron experiment again...

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05-31-2011, 06:38 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
Completely forgot about that, but I still feel like we need an upgrade over Brewer. He was a great shut down guy, but we need a better skater and someone who can create some offense. There's a big issue when your top scoring defenseman is Brett Clark, not to mention I don't want to suffer through the Bergeron experiment again...
I don't get the hatred for Clark. He has a few gaffes here and there like every defenseman in the league but is a very good shot blocker, is mobile, and has a good shot. Its not a big issue that Clark is our best producing defenseman, and it is actually a sign that they were using him more to take the load off Hedman on how the 1-3-1 is structured and who guy favors as the far back d-man.

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05-31-2011, 06:42 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
I don't get the hatred for Clark. He has a few gaffes here and there like every defenseman in the league but is a very good shot blocker, is mobile, and has a good shot. Its not a big issue that Clark is our best producing defenseman, and it is actually a sign that they were using him more to take the load off Hedman on how the 1-3-1 is structured and who guy favors as the far back d-man.
I have no issue with Clark. My issue is that he's our top offensive defenseman statistically. Kubina and Brewer were relied on for their point shots on the PP, but there were no puck carriers/offensive threats on defense in even strength situations. I think someone like Ehrhoff would have been a huge boost to our transition game in the Boston series, and added some much needed offense after the quick starts that resulted in losses. Unless Hedman sees a huge leap in the development of his offensive game, I can't see Yzerman being satisfied with the offense from the back end.

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