HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD 2011 Draft Thread XI - The Aftermath

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-22-2011, 12:11 AM
  #251
overpass
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,599
vCash: 500
For those who are using my adjusted stats:

Updated to include the 2010-11 season.

overpass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 12:31 AM
  #252
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I sent mine at noon today and have a record in my outbox that I did. Did you not receive them?
Yes. My bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
1) I'd mildly prefer rendering the conferences useless. The idea was to make it so that stronger teams didn't have to meet early on. But if people actually pay attention to other divisions in their conference (I never do - just pay attention to my division), then I guess I can see why they wouldn't want that. So basically, I'd prefer full reseeding, but it's not big deal to me.

2) Cut and paste is probably better. I always got annoyed that VI ignored the third PK units some teams placed priorities on drafting.
as for point 2, that`s fine, I`ll paste from the roster thread. So whatever you guys want to be in the OP of your series, please put in your roster post.

as for point 1, I`ve basically heard two arguments about it from perhaps my two favourite GMs, neither were extremely passionate about it, but with opposite viewpoints. I admit I am more compelled by this one. Anyone else want to speak up… (that … should be a question mark, stupid keyboard)

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 12:34 AM
  #253
EagleBelfour
Registered User
 
EagleBelfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,234
vCash: 500
Hey guys, just a little note that I'm in holidays in my holidays, so that mean I will be on, but mostly off the Internet for the next five days. So don't think I'm VanI puppets and just disappear, I'll be around Monday night/tuesday

EagleBelfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 12:34 AM
  #254
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I have received votes from the following 25 GMs:

velociraptor
hedberg/vancityluongo
dwight
Sturminator
BraveCanadian
Billy_shoe
stoneberg
Modo
ReenMachine
leaf lander
DoMakc
Johnny D/Reds4Life
home nugget
vecens24
overpass
markrander87
MadArcand
EagleBelfour
DaveG/tony d
Dreakmur
Nalyd Psycho
raleh (2 of 4 divisions)

I know I will be getting votes from these GMs:

seventieslord
Boy Wonder
TheDevilMadeMe
Leafs Forever

That would be 29 sets of votes - not too shabby. That leaves the following 14 eligible GMs:

arrbez, BM67, Cognition, hungryhungryhippy, JFA87-66-99, jkrx, matsblue13, Mr Bugg, MXD, nik jr, papershoes, Rick Middleton; monster_bertuzzi

bolded are "acting GMs" with no obligation who are still free to vote.

italicized are co-GMs whose partners have already voted, so they are free to vote but their team responsibility is handled.

The rest, aside from nik jr, are guys who aren't around often, GMs who already appear to have checked out, one who is jaded over TheSabreGate and has probably already disconnected from the process, one who wanted to quit with 5 picks left and only stuck around as a courtesy, one who is having internet issues, and one who can't send PMs and is supposed to be emailing.

I'd be happy with even three votes from those nine at this point.

Still - good turnout!
as expected, I`ve heard from TDMM, BW, and LF, and I`m working on my own now.

cognition and monster bertuzzi have submitted as well. These are now the only 11 eligible voters we haven`t heard from.

arrbez, BM67, hungryhungryhippy, JFA87-66-99, jkrx, matsblue13, Mr Bugg, MXD, nik jr, papershoes, Rick Middleton;

hhh and nik are the surprises.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 12:40 AM
  #255
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Can someone fully explain the implications behind doing a full re-seed? I'd like to know exactly what will happen, where the better teams will go, etc.

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 01:26 AM
  #256
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
Can someone fully explain the implications behind doing a full re-seed? I'd like to know exactly what will happen, where the better teams will go, etc.
a full re-seed just means that the "best" team remaining of the final 8 will go up against the "worst" of them. and 2nd vs. 7th, etc.

In theory, it should reduce the likelihood of two powerhouses meeting earlier than they "should".

all quotes placed deliberately.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 01:37 AM
  #257
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
a full re-seed just means that the "best" team remaining of the final 8 will go up against the "worst" of them. and 2nd vs. 7th, etc.

In theory, it should reduce the likelihood of two powerhouses meeting earlier than they "should".

all quotes placed deliberately.
But how do you determine which division the "best" division winner will go to?

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 01:48 AM
  #258
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
But how do you determine which division the "best" division winner will go to?
what? no!

we're talking about after the playoffs are halfway done and we're down to the final 8 (the division winners) they are re-seeded 1-8 based on their regular season voting point total.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 01:56 AM
  #259
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
what? no!

we're talking about after the playoffs are halfway done and we're down to the final 8 (the division winners) they are re-seeded 1-8 based on their regular season voting point total.
...

I don't see the point. For all we know, the final 8 could be all the bottom ranked teams. I say no.

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 02:03 AM
  #260
Modo
Global Moderator
Mo'Benn
 
Modo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etobicoke
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,945
vCash: 582
Agreed.

I don't feel we need to reseed either.

__________________
If you're telekinetic and you know it, clap my hands!
Modo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 02:11 AM
  #261
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,634
vCash: 500
Reseeding makes in more like real playoffs and less based on which divisions happen to be listed next to each other on the roster thread.

Not a big deal if we don't do it, but i thought it would be a good idea.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 02:31 AM
  #262
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Reseeding makes in more like real playoffs and less based on which divisions happen to be listed next to each other on the roster thread.

Not a big deal if we don't do it, but i thought it would be a good idea.
this is pretty much it. That's the alternative to re-seeding and it seems pretty random with no purpose.

I don't see the point of not doing it.

And I really have no idea what jarek means. Even if the playoff champs of all the divisions were the lowest ranked teams, reseeding them makes perfect sense.

just like real life, the theory is that in the regular season you earn yourself more favourable matchups.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 02:40 AM
  #263
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
The path to the championship goes through the best teams, regardless of where they are seeded. The two best teams will eventually face each other, one way or another. There's no point in re-seeding.

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 02:43 AM
  #264
Derick*
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,624
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Derick*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
The path to the championship goes through the best teams, regardless of where they are seeded. The two best teams will eventually face each other, one way or another. There's no point in re-seeding.
It's not that simple. If the teams were just ranked and a higher team will always beat a leser team, there'd be no reason to have a playoffs, we could just vote on team rankings.

Having an easier path does give you an advantage that could potentially change who the championship team is because different teams match up well against different teams. No reason to let arbitrary conferences decide that advantage.

I support reseeding.

What I support even more though is getting all these things sorted out earlier next ATD (even though I probably wont be able to paricipate).

Derick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 02:46 AM
  #265
Derick*
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,624
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Derick*
Oh, but I think post-division should be the only reseeding. Make a solid bracket based on the first reseeding.

1v8 plays 4v5. 2v7 plays 3v6. No matter who wins each series.

Derick* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 02:53 AM
  #266
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
...

I don't see the point. For all we know, the final 8 could be all the bottom ranked teams. I say no.
I don't like it, either. The determination of which regular season team is "best" is not at all free from pollution or a clear representation of which team really is best. We simply have to accept that there is a certain amount of luck involved in regards to intra-division and intra-conference competition, just like in the real NHL. I agree with you that the best teams will win, anyway.

As far as playoff reseeding goes, I don't like the idea of going further from what is actually done in hockey in favor of a more "mathematical" system. I would prefer an NHL style playoff system with meaningful conferences. We don't do the regular season voting in the NHL style only because ranking 20 teams in a conference is much harder than ranking five within a division. Let's stick with an NHL-style playoff system.

Sturminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:05 AM
  #267
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I don't like it, either. The determination of which regular season team is "best" is not at all free from pollution or a clear representation of which team really is best. We simply have to accept that there is a certain amount of luck involved in regards to intra-division and intra-conference competition, just like in the real NHL. I agree with you that the best teams will win, anyway.

As far as playoff reseeding goes, I don't like the idea of going further from what is actually done in hockey in favor of a more "mathematical" system. I would prefer an NHL style playoff system with meaningful conferences. We don't do the regular season voting in the NHL style only because ranking 20 teams in a conference is much harder than ranking five within a division. Let's stick with an NHL-style playoff system.
That's fine. So then what happens to the 4 winners per conference?

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:06 AM
  #268
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
What I support even more though is getting all these things sorted out earlier next ATD (even though I probably wont be able to paricipate).
agree. I tried, but not hard enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
Oh, but I think post-division should be the only reseeding. Make a solid bracket based on the first reseeding.

1v8 plays 4v5. 2v7 plays 3v6. No matter who wins each series.
I think if we are re-seeding for logical reasons, then that same logic dictates that we should be re-seeding again when there are four teams left.

on the other hand:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
I would prefer an NHL style playoff system with meaningful conferences. We don't do the regular season voting in the NHL style only because ranking 20 teams in a conference is much harder than ranking five within a division. Let's stick with an NHL-style playoff system.
If I understand you correctly, your vote is still to re-seed just within the conferences?

I think that can be a fair middleground for most of us. I am glad we finally got some more people talking about this.

I have final divisional standings and point totals ready to go, tallied right up to nik's vote (which arrived 10 minutes ago) - I have asked Stoneberg to hold off on sending me the point totals for my conference, because I don't feel it is fair for me to have the benefit of seeing who earned what point totals before coming to a decision on re-seeding.

also - I'm thinking the regular season point totals should remain a secret, on a "need to know" basis, meaning once we know the division winners and re-seed, then their point totals are revealed. The only reason is I don't want standings to influence voting any more than they already do, and voters should review the teams on their merits and based on the debates, and shouldn't be concerned with whether the 2nd place team was 2 points or 22 points ahead of 3rd. (also, a lesser reason is for saving face - I don't want to shame a newbie out of here - it's one thing to be last in your division of 5 teams, it's another to be last of 40 teams)

thoughts on that?

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:11 AM
  #269
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,634
vCash: 500
No reason to reveal voting totals IMO.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:12 AM
  #270
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
If I understand you correctly, your vote is still to re-seed just within the conferences?
Exactly.

Quote:
also - I'm thinking the regular season point totals should remain a secret, on a "need to know" basis, meaning once we know the division winners and re-seed, then their point totals are revealed. The only reason is I don't want standings to influence voting any more than they already do, and voters should review the teams on their merits and based on the debates, and shouldn't be concerned with whether the 2nd place team was 2 points or 22 points ahead of 3rd. (also, a lesser reason is for saving face - I don't want to shame a newbie out of here - it's one thing to be last in your division of 5 teams, it's another to be last of 40 teams)

thoughts on that?
I think this is a very good idea. The exact regular season vote totals should not be revealed before the conclusion of the divisional playoffs.

Sturminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:15 AM
  #271
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
I'll agree to Sturminator's compromise, on one condition - no more ****ing end of draft rule changing. Next time, figure everything out before the draft, and then agree to never change the rules again. if you have to, don't even allow the draft to start until everything is ironed out.

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:19 AM
  #272
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,698
vCash: 500
Sounds good, guys. we are re-seeding within the two conferences, and point totals will remain a secret for all teams except the 8 who come out of their divisions. I'll tell stoneberg he can send me the standings.

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:22 AM
  #273
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
I'll agree to Sturminator's compromise, on one condition - no more ****ing end of draft rule changing. Next time, figure everything out before the draft, and then agree to never change the rules again. if you have to, don't even allow the draft to start until everything is ironed out.
Why the dramatics? It was an idea that came up during the draft and we've discussed it's merits and drawbacks like adults

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:35 AM
  #274
jarek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Why the dramatics? It was an idea that came up during the draft and we've discussed it's merits and drawbacks like adults
The rules have changed 4 or 5 times during this draft. Some of these changes very well might have affected peoples' drafting strategies. Any further proposed rule changes, I will oppose on principal.

jarek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-22-2011, 03:38 AM
  #275
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
The rules have changed 4 or 5 times during this draft. Some of these changes very well might have affected peoples' drafting strategies. Any further proposed rule changes, I will oppose on principal.
But not on interest?

seventieslord is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.