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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

The NHL, The TV deal and Canadians

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Old
04-20-2011, 03:50 PM
  #1
Melrose Munch
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The NHL, The TV deal and Canadians

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1991965/

I feel this is a separate issue and deserves its own thread.

The BOG feels that the smaller Canadian markets negatively. But why? And if Edmonton does not get their new stadium, will they be gone to Houston to throw meat at the new NBC Sports?

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04-20-2011, 04:07 PM
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Melrose Munch
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1993030/

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04-20-2011, 05:21 PM
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Shawa666
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Someone please remind me how much the NHL gets out of both canadian national deals?

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04-20-2011, 05:25 PM
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Melrose Munch
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250 millions?

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04-20-2011, 06:33 PM
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Shawa666
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I had something like 120-130M$ in mind, 100 for the CBC deal, and 20-30 for RDS

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04-20-2011, 06:38 PM
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Roadrage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawa666 View Post
I had something like 120-130M$ in mind, 100 for the CBC deal, and 20-30 for RDS
TSN not national?

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04-20-2011, 06:41 PM
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Shawa666
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AFAIK TSN buys off games from the CBC, or it's a consortium. I don't remember.

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04-20-2011, 07:04 PM
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MountainHawk
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Is Canada's national psyche so fragile that this is really a big deal?

Hockey isn't going to grow in Canada. That's the only point here. There is no one in Canada that has never heard of hockey or might be convinced to give it a shot via exposure.

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04-20-2011, 08:42 PM
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Fourier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1991965/

I feel this is a separate issue and deserves its own thread.

The BOG feels that the smaller Canadian markets negatively. But why? And if Edmonton does not get their new stadium, will they be gone to Houston to throw meat at the new NBC Sports?
Munch,

This has nothing to do with Edmonton. Their arena negotiations are moving along and even if they hit a snag, we would be years away from any threat that they might leave.

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04-20-2011, 08:46 PM
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Fourier
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Is Canada's national psyche so fragile that this is really a big deal?

Hockey isn't going to grow in Canada. That's the only point here. There is no one in Canada that has never heard of hockey or might be convinced to give it a shot via exposure.
The answer to your first question is in my mind: possibly.

But I hope that your second statement was not intended to be serious because it is far from the truth.

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04-20-2011, 08:48 PM
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Melrose Munch
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The answer to your first question is in my mind: possibly.

But I hope that your second statement was not intended to be serious because it is far from the truth.
Really. There is still untapped markets? I find this hard to believe.

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04-20-2011, 09:06 PM
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Fourier
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Really. There is still untapped markets? I find this hard to believe.
Do you really beleive that every person in Canada has made a firm choice to be an NHL fan or not to be one. Do you think that if a team ends up in Winnipeg or Hamilton or Quebec that the only people who will care are those that are already invested in the league.

Did Sportsnet sign their brodcast deal with the Oilers and Flames with no intention of expanding their audience?

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04-20-2011, 09:12 PM
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Shawa666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
Do you really beleive that every person in Canada has made a firm choice to be an NHL fan or not to be one. Do you think that if a team ends up in Winnipeg or Hamilton or Quebec that the only people who will care are those that are already invested in the league.

Did Sportsnet sign their brodcast deal with the Oilers and Flames with no intention of expanding their audience?
I'm from Quebec, I watch a dozen games a season, almost all in the playoffs. I'd watch a lot more if there was a team here. I'm pretty sure i'm not alone.

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04-20-2011, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Is Canada's national psyche so fragile that this is really a big deal?

Hockey isn't going to grow in Canada. That's the only point here. There is no one in Canada that has never heard of hockey or might be convinced to give it a shot via exposure.
If this were true then Hockey Canada wouldn't be so aggressively trying to get new Canadians involved to get numbers growing again. Everybody may have heard of it, that doesn't mean there isn't room to grow.

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php...40166/a/162459

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04-20-2011, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
250 millions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawa666 View Post
I had something like 120-130M$ in mind, 100 for the CBC deal, and 20-30 for RDS

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=31877239

$100-110 MM from CBC/HNIC

$50-100 MM from TSN (contradictory info)

$15 MM from RDS (plus $20 MM that goes to the Habs)

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Old
04-20-2011, 09:33 PM
  #16
Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=31877239

$100-110 MM from CBC/HNIC

$50-100 MM from TSN (contradictory info)

$15 MM from RDS (plus $20 MM that goes to the Habs)
Thank you.

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04-20-2011, 09:36 PM
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BeastoftheEast85
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Couldn't this deal help Phoenix move to Canada?

With a TV locked up for the next decade, the NHL won't have to worry about keeping a team in all the big US markets to get a bigger TV contract. Now they can save themselves money and have a team that breaks even or makes a profit in Canada rather than blowing 20 mill a year in Phoenix. This would also help with the new Canadian TV contract.

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04-20-2011, 09:43 PM
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Watch for the Yeti
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The nhl will make $2 billion by the end of the deal.

So im guessin if Edmonton would move it would be to a traditional hockey market and hopefully not Houston lol. Im guessing like Milwaukee, Seattle, Portland something like that

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04-20-2011, 09:51 PM
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Shawa666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=31877239

$100-110 MM from CBC/HNIC

$50-100 MM from TSN (contradictory info)

$15 MM from RDS (plus $20 MM that goes to the Habs)
Thanks for the numbers Fugu

So, quick rundown, that gives us somwhere between 27.5 to 37.5M$ per canadian team, compared to 8.3M$ per american team.


Try again Gary.

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04-20-2011, 10:06 PM
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That's not... the case, at all. It's baffling to see this bandied about like it's common knowledge. No, there is room for a lot of growth in Canada, or teams like the Canucks and Flames would still be bleeding like they were in the '90s. Hockey interest has grown quite a lot in Vancouver since 2000, mostly I think from immigrant communities (who've really embraced the sport). Just ancedotally in my circle of friends, roughly about half (bout 66% girls/33% guys) could give less of a **** about hockey. That doesn't mean they don't know it's there, but they're not paying customers of the NHL. In cities like Winnipeg, Quebec and Hamilton hockey interest is high-ish but many people don't attend NHL games and afaik many sort of 'follow' the game but don't invest in it as much as they might if a team were there. There's definitely room for hockey to grow here.

However you're not totally wrong. I think it's best said that the room for growth- the marginal $ they'd get out of one more Canadian hockey vs. a hypothetical American fan, is much higher in the latter case. There's much more room to grow hockey in the U.S. than there is up here. However, it's debatable whether franchises actually do that and whether or not it might be smarter (or dumber) to have more Canadian teams were growth probably moves faster due to its sort of cultural hegemony over us.

I think if Edmonton absolutely refuses to build a new arena then sure, they might move- it'd be tragic and stupid imo. but I could see it happening, but they will get the arena done it's just a process and the NHL's contributing. You need the implicit threat of relocation. I don't think they'd want to move the franchise to Houston if they could move another one there or get an expansion fee out of a new franchise there, but you know it's not off the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Is Canada's national psyche so fragile that this is really a big deal?

Hockey isn't going to grow in Canada. That's the only point here. There is no one in Canada that has never heard of hockey or might be convinced to give it a shot via exposure.

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04-20-2011, 11:11 PM
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I'm from Quebec, I watch a dozen games a season, almost all in the playoffs. I'd watch a lot more if there was a team here. I'm pretty sure i'm not alone.
Same here in Hamilton. A lot more!

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04-21-2011, 12:06 AM
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Really. There is still untapped markets? I find this hard to believe.
Oh yeah, it might seem odd but believe me there's a ton of crazies out there known as NBA, CFL/NFL and other fans.



Canada is also home to a large immigration influx every year and most of those immigrants aren't coming from hockey mad countries.

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04-21-2011, 12:12 AM
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id like to see the CTV/TSN get a TV contract like NBC/Versus and freeze out Rogers/CBC in the next NHL TV contract. Sportsnet and the CBC are awful and should not have any TV contract with the NHL their a joke.

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04-21-2011, 12:50 AM
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Roughneck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlotto99 View Post
id like to see the CTV/TSN get a TV contract like NBC/Versus and freeze out Rogers/CBC in the next NHL TV contract. Sportsnet and the CBC are awful and should not have any TV contract with the NHL their a joke.
And tonight on TSN4...

Sportsnet owns regional rights, TSN and CTV don't have the capacity to show over 50 games for each of the six Canadian teams. To freeze out CBC they'd have to outbid the CBC on top of the ~$75M they're already paying. Is it worth it to TSN to be bidding an extra $150M a year (CBC pays $110M now, and it's their most/only relevant property, they wouldn't let it go cheap) just to take Saturday nights?

Even if you take the tens of millions of regional rights out of the equation to get rid of Rogers, Globemedia would have to be pushing $300M in order to get exclusive national rights in Canada.

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04-21-2011, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlotto99 View Post
id like to see the CTV/TSN get a TV contract like NBC/Versus and freeze out Rogers/CBC in the next NHL TV contract. Sportsnet and the CBC are awful and should not have any TV contract with the NHL their a joke.
HNiC is awesome, sorry. No one does a better job framing the legend of NHL hockey.

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