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Jeff Carter "sprained right knee" (April 26 update: could return in Rd. 2; post #87)

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04-27-2011, 02:11 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Giroux and Carter were our best two man combination for 82 games...
This isn't the regular season. Carter is not the same player in the regular season to the play-offs

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04-27-2011, 02:14 PM
  #152
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I can't stand Carter just as much as the next person, but anyone implying that we should play Zherdev over Carter is flat out idiotic. To say the least.

And do people not realize we've been playing with 11 forwards? Zherdev can still play without taking Carter's spot.

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04-27-2011, 02:15 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
This isn't the regular season. Carter is not the same player in the regular season to the play-offs
I have a feeling I know what turn this discussion is about to take

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04-27-2011, 02:20 PM
  #154
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I have a feeling I know what turn this discussion is about to take
It's not worth it... that whole philosophy is silly.

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04-27-2011, 02:22 PM
  #155
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I agree with this. I thought Carter was fine in this series, just wasn't finishing. Usually, a guy like him, you get one and you get going. He scored and then got hurt in the next game. Never really got a chance to get going.
I just don't see Carter being an instrumental reason to their success in the playoffs. He never has been before, and I don't see it happening. He might fire a wrister in from the circle here or there, but he's not going to be the guy who seems to always have the puck on his stick controlling the play ala Giroux. I don't see him ever having such a dominating series like JVR just did. Don't see him battling like crazy, being everywhere and coming up huge time after time like Briere. Just not in his makeup. Is he really going to be the guy that gets the Flyers to the Cup? Is he in the top 5 most valuable playoff forwards on the roster? Certainly not more valuable than Giroux, Briere, or Richards, and JVR just showed that ability to take it to the next level and be a dominating presence, more than Carter has ever showed. Leino was unbelievable during last year's run and has an OT winner this year in a game 6, a beauty in game 7, and created numerous chances. All five of those guys are more instrumental than Carter in my eyes. Can they win with Carter? Yes. He'll score an occasional goal firing his wrister from weird angles. He'll win a couple puck battles. He'll make a couple plays in his own end. Can they win without him? Absolutely.

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04-27-2011, 02:22 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
I can't stand Carter just as much as the next person, but anyone implying that we should play Zherdev over Carter is flat out idiotic. To say the least.

And do people not realize we've been playing with 11 forwards? Zherdev can still play without taking Carter's spot.
You are not implying Carter plays over Svyret are you? That is crazy talk.

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04-27-2011, 02:24 PM
  #157
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It's not worth it... that whole philosophy is silly.
That was a clutch post. Full of clutchness.

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04-27-2011, 02:26 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
I just don't see Carter being an instrumental reason to their success in the playoffs. He never has been before, and I don't see it happening. He might fire a wrister in from the circle here or there, but he's not going to be the guy who seems to always have the puck on his stick controlling the play ala Giroux. I don't see him ever having such a dominating series like JVR just did. Don't see him battling like crazy, being everywhere and coming up huge time after time like Briere. Just not in his makeup. Is he really going to be the guy that gets the Flyers to the Cup? Is he in the top 5 most valuable playoff forwards on the roster? Certainly not more valuable than Giroux, Briere, or Richards, and JVR just showed that ability to take it to the next level and be a dominating presence, more than Carter has ever showed. Leino was unbelievable during last year's run and has an OT winner this year in a game 6, a beauty in game 7, and created numerous chances. All five of those guys are more instrumental than Carter in my eyes. Can they win with Carter? Yes. He'll score an occasional goal firing his wrister from weird angles. Can they win without him? Absolutely.
And there in lies the beauty!!! WE DON"T DEPEND ON CARTER!!! That is a good thing. For some reason, many feel like if Carter plays this team changes and it is the Jeff Carter show. He isn't that guy, he just comes in and is an upgrade to WHOMEVER he takes out.

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04-27-2011, 02:26 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
That was a clutch post. Full of clutchness.
stupid is as stupid does.

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04-27-2011, 02:26 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
And there in lies the beauty!!! WE DON"T DEPEND ON CARTER!!! That is a good thing. For some reason, many feel like if Carter plays this team changes and it is the Jeff Carter show. He isn't that guy, he just comes in and is an upgrade to WHOMEVER he takes out.
That's what I want out of a guy making 6 mil over the next 35 years.

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04-27-2011, 02:27 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
I just don't see Carter being an instrumental reason to their success in the playoffs. He never has been before, and I don't see it happening. He might fire a wrister in from the circle here or there, but he's not going to be the guy who seems to always have the puck on his stick controlling the play ala Giroux. I don't see him ever having such a dominating series like JVR just did. Don't see him battling like crazy, being everywhere and coming up huge time after time like Briere. Just not in his makeup. Is he really going to be the guy that gets the Flyers to the Cup? Is he in the top 5 most valuable playoff forwards on the roster? Certainly not more valuable than Giroux, Briere, or Richards, and JVR just showed that ability to take it to the next level and be a dominating presence, more than Carter has ever showed. Leino was unbelievable during last year's run and has an OT winner this year in a game 6, a beauty in game 7, and created numerous chances. All five of those guys are more instrumental than Carter in my eyes. Can they win with Carter? Yes. He'll score an occasional goal firing his wrister from weird angles. He'll win a couple puck battles. He'll make a couple plays in his own end. Can they win without him? Absolutely.
Same used to be said of Gagne...

Now he's a "big game" goal scorer. Funny how these things work.

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04-27-2011, 02:27 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
That was a clutch post. Full of clutchness.
Why do I picture Homer Simpson reading this. "I don't know Moe. Ive met a lot of sucks in my day, but those sucks were the suckiest bunch of sucks who ever did suck".

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04-27-2011, 02:28 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Same used to be said of Gagne...

Now he's a "big game" goal scorer. Funny how these things work.
In more recent memory, Joe Thornton. Biggest playoff bum of them all, or is he?

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04-27-2011, 02:30 PM
  #164
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A healthy Carter makes the lineup, there's no question about that. If the team continues to play like they did the last game-and-a-half there might not be the need to rush him back however. Just like we didn't see Pronger before we faced elimination.

I'd still keep Zherdev in the lineup and either hold Nödl off the team or drop Carcillo depending on how the games turn out to be played, but to say that we should keep Zherdev over Carter is ridiculous. Even if Zherdev has been better overall than he was during the regular season, he has 1 goal and 1 assist in five games with less than 12 minutes played per game.

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04-27-2011, 02:31 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
That's what I want out of a guy making 6 mil over the next 35 years.
What? 40 goals a year, solid defensively, consistent, reliable, great shot, comes into camp in shape, can play PK, can play PP, Big, Strong, very good on faceoffs. That? Or was it something else you wanted for your 5.25 million per?

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04-27-2011, 02:34 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Same used to be said of Gagne...

Now he's a "big game" goal scorer. Funny how these things work.
Couldn't agree more. I remember the days when everyone wanted to get rid of Gagne because he never reached that next level in the playoffs.

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04-27-2011, 02:39 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
What? 40 goals a year, solid defensively, consistent, reliable, great shot, comes into camp in shape, can play PK, can play PP, Big, Strong, very good on faceoffs. That? Or was it something else you wanted for your 5.25 million per?
Yeah. Being a force in the playoffs. You know, the actual important time of year.

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04-27-2011, 02:45 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Same used to be said of Gagne...

Now he's a "big game" goal scorer. Funny how these things work.
So you're not disappointed in Carter's career playoff production to date? It's fine because a couple years from now he may score an important goal or two? Out of curiosity, in order, who would your top 5 forwards the Flyers could least afford to play without in the playoffs be?

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04-27-2011, 02:53 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
So you're not disappointed in Carter's career playoff production to date? It's fine because a couple years from now he may score an important goal or two? Out of curiosity, in order, who would your top 5 forwards the Flyers could least afford to play without in the playoffs be?
Sure I'm disappointed, doesn't mean I throw the baby out with the bathwater... the fact of the matter is that players' playoff production mirrors their regular season production as you play out enough games. Additionally, you don't know when that is going to happen. It could happen next week, it could happen next year... ya just don't know.

Jeff Carter was the Flyers best all-around forward this year. If the PP gets back on track the formula will change a bit, but the Flyers score more with him on the ice than any other forward on the team. They also are a stout defensive team with him on the ice... they need him. People also stress over his production and don't pay attention to what is happening. A couple years ago he was our best forward on the ice against Pittsburgh... MAF just made some absolutely stellar saves to keep him out of the net.

Mike Richards is easily the most important all-around forward on this roster, and after that you have a bunch of guys that are kind of in the same ballpark of the suspects you're going to talk about. Briere played great in this series, someone else can play great in the next one -- and, yes, Briere has had cold playoff series since the lockout. He did jack squat against Montreal a few years back, for example, after tearing Washington a new one.

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04-27-2011, 02:54 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
So you're not disappointed in Carter's career playoff production to date? It's fine because a couple years from now he may score an important goal or two? Out of curiosity, in order, who would your top 5 forwards the Flyers could least afford to play without in the playoffs be?
Hard to be disappointed in his production when he's always injured. I seem to recall that he was gimpy 2 years ago (Don't remember for sure), then he broke his foot last year, and this year he messed up his knee.

I'll wait until he has a playoff run where he's healthy to judge.

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04-27-2011, 02:55 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Hard to be disappointed in his production when he's always injured. I seem to recall that he was gimpy 2 years ago (Don't remember for sure), then he broke his foot last year, and this year he messed up his knee.

I'll wait until he has a playoff run where he's healthy to judge.
He had a bum right shoulder against the Pens... and still was all over the place, just kept getting robbed by MAF (the telescopic leg).

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04-27-2011, 02:57 PM
  #172
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He had a bum right shoulder against the Pens... and still was all over the place, just kept getting robbed by MAF (the telescopic leg).
Ugh, go-go-gadget Fleury. I do remember that.

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04-27-2011, 03:02 PM
  #173
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Sure I'm disappointed, doesn't mean I throw the baby out with the bathwater...
No need to bring poor Michael Leighton into this....

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04-27-2011, 03:02 PM
  #174
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He had a bum right shoulder against the Pens... and still was all over the place, just kept getting robbed by MAF (the telescopic leg).
Maybe he needed to bear down....

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04-27-2011, 03:05 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by FreshPrinceOfBriere View Post
So you're not disappointed in Carter's career playoff production to date? It's fine because a couple years from now he may score an important goal or two? Out of curiosity, in order, who would your top 5 forwards the Flyers could least afford to play without in the playoffs be?
First off, I dislike arguing with anyone who has as awesome a name as FreshPrinceOfBriere, I smile everytime I see that. But I digress.

1. Briere
2. Richards
3. Giroux
4. Carter
5. Leino/Hartnell/JVR

Carter is not a career bust in the playoffs.

- 11 goals and 17 points in 12 games in the World Junior Championships. P.S. Top goal scorer on the best team EVER ASSEMBLED for this tournament.
- 23 points in 21 playoff games for Phantoms to lead them to the Calder Cup
- 0 points in 6 games in his rookie year (No big surprise)
- 2007-08, 6 goals 5 assists in 17 games.
- 2008-09 1 goal in 6 games.
- 2009-10, 5 goals 2 assists in 12 games


If I look at the above, I don't see anything to say he is a guy who cannot play in the playoffs.

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