The problem is that Vigneault has made adjustments: they're just the wrong adjustments. In fact, they're almost exclusively stupid adjustments. The most mind boggling is that his choice for home-ice match-up is to throw the Sedins out there over and over against Toews and watch them get mauled like a toddler that fell into the lion's enclosure at the zoo.
Nationality is irrelevant, but I think the Canucks could use a couple fiery guys on the team. Kesler is "fiery", but he actually plays worse when he's mad, and he's been invisble again this series as usual. Guy is less clutch than Joe Thornton in the playoffs. The Canucks need someone like Johan Franzen -- right now I think they're just feeling sorry for themselves.
Honestly I don't know how Luongo can even get through an interview without throwing his team under the bus. I'd be furious, especially if I knew it was going to be blamed on me.
Last thought for now. I think the most alarming thing has been that the Canucks have been unable to even play a solid defensive game. The positioning of the d-men has been abysmal the last two games. You can literally see goals developing about 10 seconds before they happen. I was watching last night's game (well, the first 25 minutes) and about 5 seconds before each of the goals I said, "Chicago is about to score." They're either leaving the slot wide open or leaving the points wide open and collapsing to no man's land. Or, like on one goal, everyone just cleared out from, well, everywhere, and it was just Keith and Toews, one at blue line shooting and the other all by himself in front of Luongo.
And man alive, our defensemen look lost in the offensive zone. Bad pinches, bad hits, bad passes, can't hold the line, can't get a shot on net. Contrasted with Keith, and it's hard not to be slightly optimistic about the Canucks having some free agents and the chance to re-work the blue line (again).
First of all. I'm with others in that the loss was not solely on Luongo's shoulders. But nonetheless, the guy is bugging me.
It isnt his talent or anything, but he's just so FRAGILE. for a professional "starting" goalie, I have never seen such an emotionally fragile individual. It seems that he lets in a couple bad ones, looks at the team, and says "sorry guys. I can't help tonight."
he never admits to needing to be better or playing poorly in interview because of his ego, but I'm starting to think that is one of his major weaknesses. He is either A) so full of himself that he doesnt think he needs to improve; B) is stuck in a dream world where he wins every game; or C) going to blame his team 100% and deflect blame.
I've stood up for the guy every time he's choked badly, but the third times the charm.
The problem is that Vigneault has made adjustments: they're just the wrong adjustments. In fact, they're almost exclusively stupid adjustments. The most mind boggling is that his choice for home-ice match-up is to throw the Sedins out there over and over against Toews and watch them get mauled like a toddler that fell into the lion's enclosure at the zoo.
Line-matching and personel adjustments were made, and turned out to be the wrong ones as you say, but system adjustments were not targeted. The worst part about it is, the Hawks made adjustments every game:
- Luongo deep in his net, have outside shots go high glove. At the very least, Luongo will give up a rebound to the slot. As it happens, Chicago wanted forwards to follow the outside shot for rebounds. This, as we now know, is a poor mix for Vancouver. Answer: Pressure the points with the forward, hard. If the shot gets through, then hope Luongo saves it and the dmen can clear the rebound.
- Chicago has been getting to the net better. Toews and Brouwer both did damage there. Answer: Pressure the points or the puck carrier. The screens are only as strong as the player getting the puck to the screen.
- Canuck PP, Chicago pressures right up to the corner blue line because they know there is a drop pass coming. I actually saw an adjustment here. The team started to do soft dump and chase. It worked, but only marginally so, because the forwards would often lose the board battles. Answer: Keep doing the soft dump and hope the forward battles are 50/50 saw off. If they adjust to stop the dump, start back with the corner blue set-up play.
- Chicago is placing their forwards in between the Canuck D and the Canuck forwards in the neutral zone. The effect? Passes are being picked off with ease and the Chicago forwards are sniping shots in front of the quickly retreating Canuck D. Answer: Forwards must backcheck like demons.
- The Canuck D pinching too aggressively when down. This opens up the stretch pass to chicago. The high forward for the Canucks has to come back and help out the pinching D, but the D also has to be smarter. Read: Smarter than Bieksa. Answer: Don't go full retard like Bieksa.
It's no wonder the forecheck has been halted, the Chicago forwards aren't allowing the D to connect a pass to the first Canuck forward. That forward can't dump the puck in unless he gets it from the D. There should be an adjustment to drop one forward really low in the zone. And perhaps have one streaking for the other end, leaving one steady in the neutral zone. This will allow that stretch dump that the Canucks sometimes do, if it's there. If it isn't, simply give it to the low forward to try and gain centre, or to dish to the support forward in the neutral zone.
Simple, simple adjustments could make this a very different game. And getting the boys psyched is not an adjustment.
Last edited by Bleach Clean: 04-22-2011 at 11:46 AM.
I am entirely embarrassed to be a Canucks fan at this moment.
I'd be fine if the team actually tried, but two games in a row where the team has had a complete mental collapse? Something is seriously wrong with the leadership core of this team.
Nationality is irrelevant, but I think the Canucks could use a couple fiery guys on the team. Kesler is "fiery", but he actually plays worse when he's mad, and he's been invisble again this series as usual. Guy is less clutch than Joe Thornton in the playoffs. The Canucks need someone like Johan Franzen -- right now I think they're just feeling sorry for themselves.
Honestly I don't know how Luongo can even get through an interview without throwing his team under the bus. I'd be furious, especially if I knew it was going to be blamed on me.
Yeah, we need a couple guys like Joe Pavelski and Ryan Clowe. Are you still laughing at the notion the Sharks might have a better forward corps than us?
I'm just thankful this series isn't over. Chicago easily could have eeked out a couple wins in the 1st 3 games.
Why is the entire top 6 on defense looking like complete garbage? Why are they still falling for the same long distance passes that plagued them the last couple years against the Hawks? Because Rick Bowness is getting schooled yet again by the eye in the sky Scotty Bowman. What a coaching mismatch we've seen up to this point.
The Canucks should be able to squeeze out 1 more victory in this series, but if they don't, biggest choke job in NHL history will be their legacy. Good luck!
Line-matching and personel adjustments were made, and turned out to be the wrong ones as you say, but system adjustments were not targeted. The worst part about it is, the Hawks made adjustments every game:
- Luongo deep in his net, have outside shots go high glove. At the very least, Luongo will give up a rebound to the slot. As it happens, Chicago wanted forwards to follow the outside shot for rebounds. This, as we now know, is a poor mix for Vancouver. Answer: Pressure the points with the forward, hard. If the shot gets through, then hope Luongo saves it and the dmen can clear the rebound.
- Chicago has been getting to the net better. Toews and Brouwer both did damage there. Answer: Pressure the points or the puck carrier. The screens are only as strong as the player getting the puck to the screen.
- Canuck PP, Chicago pressures right up to the corner blue line because they know there is a drop pass coming. I actually saw an adjustment here. The team started to do soft dump and chase. It worked, but only marginally so, because the forwards would often lose the board battles. Answer: Keep doing the soft dump and hope the forward battles are 50/50 saw off. If they adjust to stop the dump, start back with the corner blue set-up play.
- Chicago is placing their forwards in between the Canuck D and the Canuck forwards in the neutral zone. The effect? Passes are being picked off with ease and the Chicago forwards are sniping shots in front of the quickly retreating Canuck D. Answer: Forwards must backcheck like demons.
- The Canuck D pinching too aggressively when down. This opens up the stretch pass to chicago. The high forward for the Canucks has to come back and help out the pinching D, but the D also has to be smarter. Read: Smarter than Bieksa. Answer: Don't go full retard like Bieksa.
It's no wonder the forecheck has been halted, the Chicago forwards aren't allowing the D to connect a pass to the first Canuck forward. That forward can't dump the puck in unless he gets it from the D. There should be an adjustment to drop one forward really low in the zone. And perhaps have one streaking for the other end, leaving one steady in the neutral zone. This will allow that stretch dump that the Canucks sometimes do, if it's there. If it isn't, simply give it to the low forward to try and gain centre, or to dish to the support forward in the neutral zone.
Simple, simple adjustments could make this a very different game. And getting the boys psyched is not an adjustment.
The defense has really lost their way when it comes to gap management and misreading the speed of Chicago's forwards...Edler backing in wayyy to far on Hossa's goal, Toews simple galloping past Salo for a very good chance where Edler was forced to take a penalty, Bieksa's poor read and foot speed on Bickell's goal, Stalberg and Frolik have both whizzed past our D....it's pretty disheartening to see such a talented group get taken to school with such apparent ease.
Yeah, we need a couple guys like Joe Pavelski and Ryan Clowe. Are you still laughing at the notion the Sharks might have a better forward corps than us?
I'm just thankful this series isn't over. Chicago easily could have eeked out a couple wins in the 1st 3 games.
Why is the entire top 6 on defense looking like complete garbage? Why are they still falling for the same long distance passes that plagued them the last couple years against the Hawks? Because Rick Bowness is getting schooled yet again by the eye in the sky Scotty Bowman. What a coaching mismatch we've seen up to this point.
The Canucks should be able to squeeze out 1 more victory in this series, but if they don't, biggest choke job in NHL history will be their legacy. Good luck!
If we get ousted early here, I really hope we take a run at trying to get Shane Doan...if the rumors are true that he doesn't want to go back to Winnipeg. He's exactly what this team needs.
If we get ousted early here, I really hope we take a run at trying to get Shane Doan...if the rumors are true that he doesn't want to go back to Winnipeg. He's exactly what this team needs.
Yeah, we need a couple guys like Joe Pavelski and Ryan Clowe. Are you still laughing at the notion the Sharks might have a better forward corps than us?
I'm just thankful this series isn't over. Chicago easily could have eeked out a couple wins in the 1st 3 games.
Why is the entire top 6 on defense looking like complete garbage? Why are they still falling for the same long distance passes that plagued them the last couple years against the Hawks? Because Rick Bowness is getting schooled yet again by the eye in the sky Scotty Bowman. What a coaching mismatch we've seen up to this point.
The Canucks should be able to squeeze out 1 more victory in this series, but if they don't, biggest choke job in NHL history will be their legacy. Good luck!
The coaching mismatch has been lop-sided since game 1. People were on here talking about "the best teams usually make the coach look good, ergo, Quenville seemed like he out-coached AV in the last 2 years, when really he had the best team". That statement is complete and utter nonsense. You can pick out a good coach regardless of each team's inherent strength.
You saw it with Lemaire in Minnesota. He didn't have the firepower Van had, but he out-coached Crawford consistently. Was Crow's team better? Absolutely. Did that matter? Absolutely not. Good coaching filters through regardless.
AV is a passive coach. He gives the players a flexible system that they can adjust on the fly, and then lets them go. The problem is, if the system isn't working, there are no further adjustments to be made. His in-game adjustments are terrible or non-existent. 4th line for an offensive zone face-off = sheer brilliance. His out of game adjustments are becoming laughable.
He is out of his depth. The playoffs is again presenting a massive problem for him. I mean, how do you walk away from game 4 and say that effort was the "simple adjustment" that needed to be made? That blow-out wasn't due to effort alone. The system completely unraveled. Could he not see that?
Honest question. What do we expect from the canucks if they get blown out again on sunday?
Honestly?
I'm having a hard time believing that they'll get blown out on Sunday, but I also didn't think they'd get blown out last night either. I still think we can beat them but I think it's going to go 7 games. I think we'll put a better effort in on Sunday but we'll lose in OT and then we'll win at home.
Yeah, we need a couple guys like Joe Pavelski and Ryan Clowe. Are you still laughing at the notion the Sharks might have a better forward corps than us?
I'm just thankful this series isn't over. Chicago easily could have eeked out a couple wins in the 1st 3 games.
Why is the entire top 6 on defense looking like complete garbage? Why are they still falling for the same long distance passes that plagued them the last couple years against the Hawks? Because Rick Bowness is getting schooled yet again by the eye in the sky Scotty Bowman. What a coaching mismatch we've seen up to this point.
The Canucks should be able to squeeze out 1 more victory in this series, but if they don't, biggest choke job in NHL history will be their legacy. Good luck!
I think the Canucks would look fine against LA too. But at this point my assumptions about the Canucks have the best top 6 also look suspect, and my conversion to believing AV could get it done is also looking suspect. Life of a Canucks fan.
The only positive I draw out of this is that if they blow this, I will never again have faith that this team will accomplish anything if they can't get out of the first round after that regular season. Less emotional investment would probably serve my heart well as I grow older
coach a.v needs to make adjustments. start luongo. the defense has to stand up at the blueline. the hawks have that one set play when they clear the puck out of their zone, there's always a forward waiting for a breakaway. so far that's worked. Plus they've beaten luongo high glove side at least 3-4times in the 2 games so far. Pressure the chicago pointmen. agreesively! keith is smart, if the nucks goes down to block, he will walk around them to unload his shot.
I like GMMG as a GM. I think he's made some good choices, but his decision to keep Aaron Rome's dad as coach is starting to look like it should cost him the Executive of the Year award.
i try to make it a habit to not tune into team 1040, but when i tune in at 10am this morning to listen to the usually level-headed barry macdonald saying that it's hard for him to envision the canucks winning this series, something in this city has changed
for my own personal health i think i'll turn off the radio until after game 6, which will then be priceless regardless of the outcome
Canucks dont have a personnel problem, a systems problem, or a coaching problem. Its all between their ears. Ever since they won game 3 they have looked listless...even before the hawks blew open game 4, that entire first period was played out of position and tentatively by all the Canucks.
The blowout losses are the symptoms of whatever ill struck them in the time between game 3 and 4.
I think its a combination of:
-letting their guard down (loss of intensity/urgency) too much after going up 3-0 and buying into the stupid statistics that 'guaranteed' them winning the series
-getting constantly screwed by the reffs
these things crept into their heads.
"I wont comment on whether I think we're getting bad calls from the reffs"-- Kesler
The coaching mismatch has been lop-sided since game 1. People were on here talking about "the best teams usually make the coach look good, ergo, Quenville seemed like he out-coached AV in the last 2 years, when really he had the best team". That statement is complete and utter nonsense. You can pick out a good coach regardless of each team's inherent strength.
You saw it with Lemaire in Minnesota. He didn't have the firepower Van had, but he out-coached Crawford consistently. Was Crow's team better? Absolutely. Did that matter? Absolutely not. Good coaching filters through regardless.
AV is a passive coach. He gives the players a flexible system that they can adjust on the fly, and then lets them go. The problem is, if the system isn't working, there are no further adjustments to be made. His in-game adjustments are terrible or non-existent. 4th line for an offensive zone face-off = sheer brilliance. His out of game adjustments are becoming laughable.
He is out of his depth. The playoffs is again presenting a massive problem for him. I mean, how do you walk away from game 4 and say that effort was the "simple adjustment" that needed to be made? That blow-out wasn't due to effort alone. The system completely unraveled. Could he not see that?
I don't think AV has the tools to bring a needed level of composure to this team. He leaves it up to the team to compose themselves and it doesn't seem to work, it hasn't worked in the last 3 years either. If AV can't get this team under control and the players can't get themselves under control then we're gonna get ousted. Someone needs to step up in a big way...I sure wish we had Manny, but I'm not even sure he can settle this group down.
Yeah the trapped worked in game 4 of the 2009 series eh....
It almost did if Mitchell didn't make one of the most idiotic plays in Canucks history. Anyway, it won't work long term, but worth a shot for one game as the Hawks won't be expecting it and if they want to counter the trap, well there won't be a game 8 (assuming we trap in game 6 and win of course).
