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Old
04-22-2011, 03:10 PM
  #26
NJD1982
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Nope I'm sure we can get rid of Rolston at much less of a cost.

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Old
04-22-2011, 03:22 PM
  #27
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Keep Rolston...the bulk of the burden of his contract is gone and he will actually be an asset at the trade deadline.

With a 62m cap and Salvador out of the picture, the Devils will have about 14 million to resign all their RFA's and add a free agent defensemen if they choose to.

No cap problems here and no need to salary dump Rolston right now.

Edit: but I could see one of Zubrus or Clarkson being moved with emergence of some of the Devils young forwards.

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Old
04-22-2011, 04:02 PM
  #28
Boondock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafmon View Post
Don't fall for the poor draft crap as there will be good players come from the below 20 group. There is at least as good a chance of that as the 4th overall turning out to be less then a first line forward or top two D.
Rolston is not worth the money and a cap killer.

Caputi has little value at this point and won't now until he proves something so I doubt he attracts little value from other teams.
Yeah we look to have a lot of goalie prospects at this point but I'd just keep em all and hope one turns into a number one.

Looks to me like you want the homerun but it is a gamble and IMO and one that has killed the Leafs for the last 40 years. I say draft keep the prospects and develop them and you never know when you get the late great pick like Perry ,M Richards ,Getzlaf, Parise ect.
You are right that there is always the late round gems, but as a whole the odds show that you are less likely to draft an impact player the later the draft goes. Here are some basic stats for the NHL draft from 2000-2009 (post 2009 is too early to really get an honest breakdown)

Players Drafted 4th overall from 2000-2009 (as a percentage);

Top 6 fwd = 40%
Bottom 6 fwd = 20%
Top Pairing D = 20%
2nd Pairing D = 10%
Not in the NHL = 10%

Players drafted between 25-30 from 2000-2009 (as a percentage);
Top 6 fwd = 10%
Bottom 6 fwd = 18.3%
Top Pairing D = 1.7%
2nd Pairing D = 5%
3rd Pairing D = 6.7%
NHL Starting G = 1.7%
NHL B.U. G = 1.7%
Not in the NHL = 55%

This doesn't mean good players aren't drafted later, and some of those "not in NHL" players will make it to the big leagues, but it does show that chances of drafting an impact player greatly reduce later in the draft.

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Old
04-22-2011, 08:49 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafssss View Post
To New Jersey:

Philadelphia 1st Round Pick 2011
Boston 1st Round Pick 2011
Ben Scrivens/Jussi Rynnas
Carl Gunnarsson/Conditional second round pick 2012 (depending on whether the player selected plays 40+ games)

To Toronto:

New Jersey 1st Round Pick 2011
Brian Rolston
Rynnas could be the Monster that never happened IMO. He doesnt move,
why does the Leafs want Rolston? over his prime player on a rebuilding team, yeah no..

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Old
04-22-2011, 10:41 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncanmac12 View Post
Rynnas could be the Monster that never happened IMO. He doesnt move,
why does the Leafs want Rolston? over his prime player on a rebuilding team, yeah no..
Leafs say No?

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Old
04-23-2011, 09:39 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafssss View Post
To New Jersey:

Philadelphia 1st Round Pick 2011
Boston 1st Round Pick 2011
Ben Scrivens/Jussi Rynnas
Carl Gunnarsson/Conditional second round pick 2012 (depending on whether the player selected plays 40+ games)

To Toronto:

New Jersey 1st Round Pick 2011
Brian Rolston
New Jersey wouldn't even consider this. Sean Couturier is going to look good in a Devils uniform

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Old
04-23-2011, 10:09 AM
  #32
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That's a lot to give up for that #4 pick. Toronto loses that trade.

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Old
04-23-2011, 10:18 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
Leafs say No?
It's not that ridiculous of an offer as many suggest.

Boston's and Philly's picks could be in the 20-30 range if Buffalo knocks the Flyers out - 26th is the lowest that pick can be - ditto for Boston. Bottom four picks in the draft are the conference finalists and stanley cup finalists.

In mock drafts players like Matt Pumpel, Jonas Brodin, Joseph Morrow, Jamieson Oleksiak, Nicklas Jensen, Dmitri Jaskin, Zack Phillips, Grimaldi etc. etc. have been available.

So if it's:

Gunnarson - finished the season as a top 4 playing big minutes and is a big bodied guy that can play sound defence and move the puck.
Rynnas
Pumpel
Grimaldi - Lou loves the little guys

for

Couturier

that doesn't look that lopsided.

Personally I'd prefer the top end talent but id you don't believe in Couturier like some don't it opens the door to get some good prospects and an NHL ready dman with a reasonable contract.

You can also fit the first four under the cap much easier. Top 5 drafts often have bonuses that add up to 3+ million and there is no bonus cushion.

It's a trade like most posted that has zero chance of happening but the value isn't as bad as some suggest.

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Old
04-23-2011, 10:36 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
It's not that ridiculous of an offer as many suggest.

Boston's and Philly's picks could be in the 20-30 range if Buffalo knocks the Flyers out - 26th is the lowest that pick can be - ditto for Boston. Bottom four picks in the draft are the conference finalists and stanley cup finalists.

In mock drafts players like Matt Pumpel, Jonas Brodin, Joseph Morrow, Jamieson Oleksiak, Nicklas Jensen, Dmitri Jaskin, Zack Phillips, Grimaldi etc. etc. have been available.

So if it's:

Gunnarson - finished the season as a top 4 playing big minutes and is a big bodied guy that can play sound defence and move the puck.
Rynnas
Pumpel
Grimaldi - Lou loves the little guys

for

Couturier

that doesn't look that lopsided.

Personally I'd prefer the top end talent but id you don't believe in Couturier like some don't it opens the door to get some good prospects and an NHL ready dman with a reasonable contract.

You can also fit the first four under the cap much easier. Top 5 drafts often have bonuses that add up to 3+ million and there is no bonus cushion.

It's a trade like most posted that has zero chance of happening but the value isn't as bad as some suggest.
It's not lopsided at all. That's very fair value for the fourth overall pick. People just think any top 5 pick will become some superstar. Look at what the Devils are getting. That's a heck of a lot back.

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Old
04-23-2011, 11:13 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It's not lopsided at all. That's very fair value for the fourth overall pick. People just think any top 5 pick will become some superstar. Look at what the Devils are getting. That's a heck of a lot back.
Would you trade Nicklas Backstrom (WAS) for Leland Irving, Matt Corrente, Ivan Vishnevsky, and Chris Summers? I mean, Backstrom was a #4 pick in 2006 and all the other guys were picked between 20-30 in the same draft. So it should be fair value for Washington, right?

Yeah, exactly. Quality =/= Quantity.

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Old
04-23-2011, 11:53 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by njdevils3034 View Post
Two late picks in a weak draft, along with two OK prospects for a lottery pick and a 20-goal scorer?

That package won't get you into the top 10, let alone the top 5.

Even though they have respect for each other, I can't believe that Lou would be as stupid as Burke as to trade away a lottery pick.
Brian Rolston is pure ****. Hes a huge waste of cap space and without him you could sign one or two valuable free agents. Leafs dont do this cuz their stuck with him and hes not worth the money they'd be spending. If Komisarek was thrown in from the Leafs end, then the cap value would only be a little better for the leafs, but they probably still wouldnt do it.

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Old
04-23-2011, 12:23 PM
  #37
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No way. Rolston is only has this coming year left on his contract and the devils NEVER pick this high. Not in a million years do i take this deal.

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Old
04-23-2011, 12:43 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Would you trade Nicklas Backstrom (WAS) for Leland Irving, Matt Corrente, Ivan Vishnevsky, and Chris Summers? I mean, Backstrom was a #4 pick in 2006 and all the other guys were picked between 20-30 in the same draft. So it should be fair value for Washington, right?

Yeah, exactly. Quality =/= Quantity.
Would you trade Nikolai Zherdev (CBJ/NYR/PHI) for Ryan Kesler, Corey Perry, Corey Crawford and Matt Carle? I mean, Zherdev was a #4 pick in 2003 and all those other guys were picked between 20-40 in the same draft. So it should be fair value for Columbus, right?

Yeah, exactly. Don't judge, cause you never know. Both teams take a risk with this trade. Toronto moreso cause they still end up with Rolston.

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Old
04-23-2011, 12:46 PM
  #39
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Still Hell No, by the Devils.

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Old
04-23-2011, 12:55 PM
  #40
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4th overall picks since 2000:

Rostislav Klesla - decent defenseman
Stephen Weiss - good 2nd line centre, good for about 60 points a year
Joni Pitkanen - elite PMD, not so solid defensively
Nikolai Zherdev - tons of skill, lacks the effort ~50 point guy?
Andrew Ladd - breakout season of sorts, slowed down near the end, good complimentary guy
Benoit Pouliot - third line dangler
Nicklas Backstrom (WASH) - elite 1st line centre, take away Semin and Ovy and who knows?
Thomas Hickey - projected 2nd/3rd pairing defenceman.

Stop there since you can't yet evaluate the recent picks.


As you can see, 4th overall picks aren't always SUPERSTARS as many Devils fans think. Sure you could get a Zherdev and put them beside a Nash or a Couturier beside a Parise/Kovalchuk, it doesn't always turn out.

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:29 PM
  #41
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why the heck would leafs do this?

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:31 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafssss View Post
4th overall picks since 2000:

Rostislav Klesla - decent defenseman
Stephen Weiss - good 2nd line centre, good for about 60 points a year
Joni Pitkanen - elite PMD, not so solid defensively
Nikolai Zherdev - tons of skill, lacks the effort ~50 point guy?
Andrew Ladd - breakout season of sorts, slowed down near the end, good complimentary guy
Benoit Pouliot - third line dangler
Nicklas Backstrom (WASH) - elite 1st line centre, take away Semin and Ovy and who knows?
Thomas Hickey - projected 2nd/3rd pairing defenceman.

Stop there since you can't yet evaluate the recent picks.


As you can see, 4th overall picks aren't always SUPERSTARS as many Devils fans think. Sure you could get a Zherdev and put them beside a Nash or a Couturier beside a Parise/Kovalchuk, it doesn't always turn out.
I would take almost every single one of those guys, over the deal you proposed.(Except Pouliot, and Hickey) This years draft, is very weak after about pick 15

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:32 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Would you trade Nicklas Backstrom (WAS) for Leland Irving, Matt Corrente, Ivan Vishnevsky, and Chris Summers? I mean, Backstrom was a #4 pick in 2006 and all the other guys were picked between 20-30 in the same draft. So it should be fair value for Washington, right?

Yeah, exactly. Quality =/= Quantity.
Nik Backstrom is a proven commodity - the pick is not.

2009 Evander Kane
2008 Alex Petriengelo
2007 Thomas Hickey
2006 Nik Bacstrom
2005 Benoit Pouliot
2004 Andrew Ladd
2003 Nikolai Zherdev
2002 Joni Pitkanen
2001 Stephen Weiss
2000 Rostislav Klesla

Nik Backstrom is the only player on that list that is an all-star and even his star has dimmed considerably without Ovechkin scoring 60+ goals.

Would you trade Pouliot Zherdev, Klesla, Hickey for that package? Of course you would and the is a much much greater chance this pick turns our to be a bust or an average player than it will a number one center.

People need to stop acting like their top 5 pick is the next Crosby. Truth is it's about 50/50 the guy will never develop into a good NHL'er.

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:32 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
I would take almost every signle one of those guys. For the deal you proposed. This years draft, is very weak after about pick 15
Tell me that in 5 years, and then I might agree with you. You can't say its weak, you can predict it as being weak, but you can only tell once the players have played.

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:33 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafssss View Post
Would you trade Nikolai Zherdev (CBJ/NYR/PHI) for Ryan Kesler, Corey Perry, Corey Crawford and Matt Carle? I mean, Zherdev was a #4 pick in 2003 and all those other guys were picked between 20-40 in the same draft. So it should be fair value for Columbus, right?

Yeah, exactly. Don't judge, cause you never know. Both teams take a risk with this trade. Toronto moreso cause they still end up with Rolston.
The fact that you're comparing the 2011 draft to the 2003 draft speaks volumes about your knowledge.

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:35 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
I would take almost every single one of those guys, over the deal you proposed.(Except Pouliot, and Hickey) This years draft, is very weak after about pick 15
You would take Pouliot? Basically a third line bust.

Hickey? Won't be in the NHL anytime soon and will never be anything special.

Klesla? Basically a number 4 defender at the peak of his career that never developed into what was expected.

Well tough to argue with you since you refuse to be logical. Carry on.

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:37 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
The fact that you're comparing the 2011 draft to the 2003 draft speaks volumes about your knowledge.
The fact that you're are trying to use Backstrom as the norm for a #4 pick speaks volumes about your argument. When there are far more Zherdev's, Hickey's, Klesla's, Pouliot's etc.

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:42 PM
  #48
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The fact that you're comparing the 2011 draft to the 2003 draft speaks volumes about your knowledge.
The 2011 draft stinks.

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Old
04-23-2011, 01:52 PM
  #49
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Who knows if the 2011 draft is bad? Maybe they all develop properly and it turns to one of the better drafts? Give me substantial proof that this draft is going to turn out to be 100% ****.

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Old
04-23-2011, 02:03 PM
  #50
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Advice for the OP:

If you're going to come after as valuable an asset as the 4th overall, you shouldn't JUST be giving up things that are expendable on your end.

Gunnarsson? Expendable.
Scrivens? Even more expendable.
Two firsts? Nice, but clearly get upgraded by acquiring the 4th overall.

Make one of the goalies Riemer and there's more incentive. If you still had YOUR 2011 1st, a deal would be more likely since it's not as far of a trade down. Also, if we didn't win the lottery, it would give us more incentive since we wouldn't be landing as much of a stud.

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