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If the Canucks lose to the Hawks, do they fire Alain Vigneault?

View Poll Results: Do the Canucks fire AV if they end up losing to Chicago?
Yes, he has clearly shown his limits as a coach for this team 298 88.17%
No, he has proven his abilities as a coach, he is not the problem 40 11.83%
Voters: 338. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-22-2011, 10:45 PM
  #101
BoHorvatFan
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Originally Posted by wilty00 View Post
People are honestly entertaining the idea of moving the Sedins if we lose this series?

Jesus christ I know everyone is a little sensitive around here but get a hold of yourselves.
If we lose this series why not? oh lets bring the same group of failures back to lose again next year. Let's be honest, the Sedins are not playoff players because after a few games they become easy to play against. The other team figures them out and they become useless. They have had only a few good shifts the past two games.

The Hawks goalie is outscoring them 2 points to 1 over the last two games and people still say it isn't their fault? they're our best players if they can't wake up and win this series I don't care if they're here or not to be honest.

There is always an excuse for the Sedins in the playoffs.

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04-22-2011, 10:51 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by HenrikSedinFan View Post
If we lose this series why not? oh lets bring the same group of failures back to lose again next year. Let's be honest, the Sedins are not playoff players because after a few games they become easy to play against. The other team figures them out and they become useless. They have had only a few good shifts the past two games.

The Hawks goalie is outscoring them 2 points to 1 over the last two games and people still say it isn't their fault? they're our best players if they can't wake up and win this series I don't care if they're here or not to be honest.

There is always an excuse for the Sedins in the playoffs.
Whats Kesler's excuse? How about Burrows? Edler? Ehrhoff? Samuelsson? Raymond? Last I checked, NOBODY has been producing at any level. These are all veteran players who have been here for a few go arounds...and yet its all on the Sedins? Riiiight.

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04-22-2011, 10:58 PM
  #103
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Not "all".

Lots.

But not "all".

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04-22-2011, 11:01 PM
  #104
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You know what guys? I think the organization needs to be taken apart if they lose to the hawks. It's quite embarrassing to blow a 3-0 series lead, just ask how Bruins fan feel. They are wallpaper material now and forever.

The best team in the NHL blowing a lead is very disgraceful to the city.

Gillis had no balls to trade away prospects to solidify this team. They could've sent Hodgson and a pick for a veteran that means something.

Having said all this, you guys think the Canucks will actually lose game 6? You guys are up 3-2, what's with the panic?

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04-22-2011, 11:04 PM
  #105
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Should be a landslide here.

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04-23-2011, 01:00 AM
  #106
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Can we get Quenville?

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04-23-2011, 01:16 AM
  #107
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Possible candidates:

Bob Hartley (note: Won Cup in 00-01)
Larry Robinson (note: Won Cup in 99-00)

?

Canucks need a coach with Stanley Cup experience.

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04-23-2011, 01:24 AM
  #108
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Even if Canucks lose the series I doubt Vignault gets fired. There are like 6 other NHL teams looking for coaches for next season...I dont see Gillis gambling on some nobody when AV has the team playing a winning system...there would just need to be some tweaking.

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04-23-2011, 01:27 AM
  #109
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hehe u guys sound like sharks fans! reading this thread feels strangely at home.

that said, i bet you guys will go from jumping off bridges to prematurely planning the parade in record time. no way nucks lose 2 more in a row, chicago has been running on fumes for a while now.

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04-23-2011, 01:53 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Sedinery2011 View Post
Even if Canucks lose the series I doubt Vignault gets fired. There are like 6 other NHL teams looking for coaches for next season...I dont see Gillis gambling on some nobody when AV has the team playing a winning system...there would just need to be some tweaking.
A winning system that hasn't gotten us anywhere in the playoffs?

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04-23-2011, 01:56 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by endy View Post
hehe u guys sound like sharks fans! reading this thread feels strangely at home.

that said, i bet you guys will go from jumping off bridges to prematurely planning the parade in record time. no way nucks lose 2 more in a row, chicago has been running on fumes for a while now.
Not sure if you're talking about "fumes" as in momentum or fatigue, but I remember people talking about the Hawks players and their having to play too many minutes. Well, since we got blown out the last two games, and there's a 2 day rest in between games, fatigue is no longer a factor.

They have to play their best against a very confident Hawks team that's playing to their top potential. It won't be easy.

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04-23-2011, 02:06 AM
  #112
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Regarding trading the Sedins, I don't exactly agree with it, but I've seen a lot of people that have said over the years that the Sharks should get rid of Thornton. Thornton is one of the best players the NHL has had in the last decade and everyone ridicules him, so why is the notion of trading the Sedins ridiculous? Talk about a double standard.

That being said, the Sedins obviously deserve to stay in Vancouver. They may not be playoff warriors, but they're true Canucks for life. I'll always love them. Still really disappointed in their effort, though. The Canucks need new leaders.

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04-23-2011, 02:07 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jobal View Post
Not sure if you're talking about "fumes" as in momentum or fatigue, but I remember people talking about the Hawks players and their having to play too many minutes. Well, since we got blown out the last two games, and there's a 2 day rest in between games, fatigue is no longer a factor.

They have to play their best against a very confident Hawks team that's playing to their top potential. It won't be easy.
Also, they didn't have to play big minutes last game; they sat most of the 3rd.

Even if they are tired, adrenaline and the urge to settle a score has clearly overcame what ever fatigue they had.

On another note, we have isloated 9 candidates for the username AV probably posts under

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04-23-2011, 02:41 AM
  #114
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I find it utterly hilarious...we finally get serious, major trophy winners in back to back years, players who are signed long term to EXTREMELY good deals, are outstanding people and have given back to the community in a huge way and people are just so eager to kick them to the curb. Maybe they aren't the spiritual, "get on my back and I'll carry you to the promised land" type leaders, but that doesn't mean they can't play an important role here...they just need support. When there is no secondary scoring they are a lot easier to shut down, when we don't create ourselves many PP's they don't put up as many points, when we're always killing penalties they aren't on the ice and able to get points. Sure they've been the ***** the last couple games but the entire team has been the *****. My god, the sheer panic around here has led to absolute lunacy.

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04-23-2011, 02:54 AM
  #115
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We're right back to the WCE excuses. Nothing is anybody's responsibility.

It's not Sedins fault, they need secondary scoring, and besides, they're playing against Captain Intangible.

It's not Kesler's fault, he's shutting down Captain Intangible (even when the Sedins are out there, apparently).
It's not Luongo's fault, the team sucked in front of him.
It's not Lidstrom-lite's fault, he can't be expected to perform when Bieksa is on the other pairing.

It's not Gillis' fault, he changed the culture by repainting the dressing room and putting a pretty carpet orca in the middle of it.

Christ, is nobody on this team good enough to bear some responsibility? Maybe all this should be Malhotra's fault, for intercepting a puck with his eyeball.

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04-23-2011, 03:35 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by endy View Post
hehe u guys sound like sharks fans! reading this thread feels strangely at home.

that said, i bet you guys will go from jumping off bridges to prematurely planning the parade in record time. no way nucks lose 2 more in a row, chicago has been running on fumes for a while now.
Running on fumes? Toews and Hossa basically beat our defense at will last night. If they put their minds to it and our team continues to play like they don't give a ****, Chicago will take the final two games easily.

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04-23-2011, 11:16 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
AV should be gone unless we make it at the very last to the WCF...and even then if we get blown out there he should be gone IMO. But there are other players who should be gone if we are bounced by Chicago. I'm looking at the Sedins, and probably Luongo.
What could you possibly expect to get back for the Sedins that could even begin to replace what they bring to this team? Don't forget their cap hit. That's right, I thought so...

As crazy as it sounds, if you think about it, Daniel has been by far our best offensive player this series, and at the end of the day we are up 3-2. Is that really so bad? If he's underperforming and is far and away our best player on the ice, then what does that say for the rest of our team?

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04-23-2011, 01:08 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Lindt View Post
What could you possibly expect to get back for the Sedins that could even begin to replace what they bring to this team? Don't forget their cap hit. That's right, I thought so...

As crazy as it sounds, if you think about it, Daniel has been by far our best offensive player this series, and at the end of the day we are up 3-2. Is that really so bad? If he's underperforming and is far and away our best player on the ice, then what does that say for the rest of our team?
Daniel has been our best offensive player because he's put up 2 great games. He's also put up 3 horrendous games. -3 in game 4, and -1 in game 5, and shutout in game 1. The Sedin line hasn't generated any offensive pressure in the offensive zone. I'm including Burrows in this too because he's played like crap! He's a guy who everyone made excuses for because of injuries in the past, but what's his excuse now?

I don't care what we get back for the Sedins to be honest. If we can get back a top forward who could perhaps use a change of scenery like Malkin or Staal fine. If not, well there are some teams who could absorb their cap hits and we could get some nice prospects for them. Send 'em to Winnipeg and bring in Kyle Turris. Or send 'em to Florida for Erik Gudbranson and David Booth. Or how about Atlanta/Quebec for Evander Kane and Bryan Little? Just some suggestions, not saying I'm expecting any of these to happen. But I'd be okay with a rebuild if we get bounced in round 1 because this is a core group that's been together for years and has not proven they can perform in the playoffs.

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04-23-2011, 01:11 PM
  #119
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You guys are making it sound like the Canucks will lose this series. This poll question should not even exist at all. You guys are up 3-2.
Put it up if they end up losing.

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04-23-2011, 01:28 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I find it utterly hilarious...we finally get serious, major trophy winners in back to back years, players who are signed long term to EXTREMELY good deals, are outstanding people and have given back to the community in a huge way and people are just so eager to kick them to the curb. Maybe they aren't the spiritual, "get on my back and I'll carry you to the promised land" type leaders, but that doesn't mean they can't play an important role here...they just need support. When there is no secondary scoring they are a lot easier to shut down, when we don't create ourselves many PP's they don't put up as many points, when we're always killing penalties they aren't on the ice and able to get points. Sure they've been the ***** the last couple games but the entire team has been the *****. My god, the sheer panic around here has led to absolute lunacy.
When you have back to back Art Ross winners on your top line, who are your highest paid players, the notion that you can blame their lack of post-season success on lack of secondary scoring is a joke! It really is! People need to stop making excuses for these guys because we've heard it all. Pre-lockout "oh they're too young," 06-07 "oh it's their first playoffs," 08-09 "they did well in round 1," 09-10 "they did well in round 1," 10-11 "they aren't the problem."



The problem is the lack of accountibility for these guys. They just aren't good enough in the playoffs. They can't play playoff hockey. They are just like Joe Thornton...they don't have that other gear to go to to have success in the playoffs. We have built our team around guys who can't win in the playoffs.

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04-23-2011, 01:46 PM
  #121
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When you have back to back Art Ross winners on your top line, who are your highest paid players, the notion that you can blame their lack of post-season success on lack of secondary scoring is a joke! It really is! People need to stop making excuses for these guys because we've heard it all. Pre-lockout "oh they're too young," 06-07 "oh it's their first playoffs," 08-09 "they did well in round 1," 09-10 "they did well in round 1," 10-11 "they aren't the problem."



The problem is the lack of accountibility for these guys. They just aren't good enough in the playoffs. They can't play playoff hockey. They are just like Joe Thornton...they don't have that other gear to go to to have success in the playoffs. We have built our team around guys who can't win in the playoffs.
why are we blaming anyone?

The whole team has played like crap the past two games.

Sedins though, do have pretty much our only offensive production the entire series, and they'll be the first ones to tell you they played like crap the past two games.

I'm sorry though, but Kesler, Raymond, and Burrows have to be SO much better. Higgins and Sammy too. It's ridiculous that Kesler doesn't have a ****ing goal yet.

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04-23-2011, 01:49 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icebank_miceelf View Post
why are we blaming anyone?

The whole team has played like crap the past two games.

Sedins though, do have pretty much our only offensive production the entire series, and they'll be the first ones to tell you they played like crap the past two games.

I'm sorry though, but Kesler, Raymond, and Burrows have to be SO much better. Higgins and Sammy too. It's ridiculous that Kesler doesn't have a ****ing goal yet.
The Sedins have scored 4 of the Canucks 11 goals. So your statement is incorrect.

I agree that Kesler, Raymond, Burrows have to be much better. Higgins has been OK for what he is. Samuelsson has proven to be worthless.

The only reason why I'm not suggesting moving Kesler is because he's at least making himself useful by hitting and playing well defensively. But there's no excuse for a 40 goal scorer to have 0 in the playoffs.

The Sedins are our leaders. Henrik is our captain. How exactly have they led by example? I'm a believer in the top-down approach, and the Sedins just haven't led this team like they need to.

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04-23-2011, 02:42 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Daniel has been our best offensive player because he's put up 2 great games. He's also put up 3 horrendous games. -3 in game 4, and -1 in game 5, and shutout in game 1. The Sedin line hasn't generated any offensive pressure in the offensive zone. I'm including Burrows in this too because he's played like crap! He's a guy who everyone made excuses for because of injuries in the past, but what's his excuse now?

I don't care what we get back for the Sedins to be honest. If we can get back a top forward who could perhaps use a change of scenery like Malkin or Staal fine. If not, well there are some teams who could absorb their cap hits and we could get some nice prospects for them. Send 'em to Winnipeg and bring in Kyle Turris. Or send 'em to Florida for Erik Gudbranson and David Booth. Or how about Atlanta/Quebec for Evander Kane and Bryan Little? Just some suggestions, not saying I'm expecting any of these to happen. But I'd be okay with a rebuild if we get bounced in round 1 because this is a core group that's been together for years and has not proven they can perform in the playoffs.
Just give away the leading scorers from each of the last 2 seasons? Doesn't matter what we get back? So you think this team isn't good enough to win in the playoffs so we may as well make a change that will make the team considerably weaker in the regular season as well? Sedins for Kyle Turris? You would seriously make that trade?

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04-23-2011, 02:49 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
The Sedins have scored 4 of the Canucks 11 goals. So your statement is incorrect.

I agree that Kesler, Raymond, Burrows have to be much better. Higgins has been OK for what he is. Samuelsson has proven to be worthless.

The only reason why I'm not suggesting moving Kesler is because he's at least making himself useful by hitting and playing well defensively. But there's no excuse for a 40 goal scorer to have 0 in the playoffs.

The Sedins are our leaders. Henrik is our captain. How exactly have they led by example? I'm a believer in the top-down approach, and the Sedins just haven't led this team like they need to.
Perfectly said. Only there's somebody above the Sedins and his name is Gillis. He should have known with the playoff histories of Raymond, Kesler, and Burrows that these three just don't produce in the playoffs. The onus is on Gillis. Raymond should have been let go. Not instead of Grabner, no, but he should have been traded for someone who complimented Kesler.

The vital flaw with this team is that it is too easy to shut down offensively.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Samuelsson
Torres - Raymond - Hansen

What I see there are three main offensive threats (Sedins, Kesler) and support players. What I see there is ONE LINE where there is a playmaker (the Sedins). What I see there is ONE LINE where we can classify the players as "shoot first" in Kesler and Samuelsson. What I see there afterwards are two grinders (Burrows, Higgins) and three players who just aren't talented enough to produce offensively (the whole third line). This team is too easy to shut down in that:

1. Shutting down one Sedin is effectively shutting down the top line. Compare it to a line like RPG. If Getzlaf were to be shut down, both Ryan and Perry are good enough to produce on their own. Their production does not depend on each other. I don't think there's a line in the NHL that relies on the other players of the line to produce as much as the Sedin line.

2. Shutting down Kesler is effectively shutting down his line. He is the only person who can produce for himself offensively on that line. Higgins is nowhere near talented enough and Samuelsson just makes terrible decisions. However, Kesler is forced to be the shut down player as well. That forces him to expend half his energy in the defensive zone. However, I will give leeway to Gillis on this point because Malhotra was here to relieve some of Kesler's defensive responsibility.

These two points mean that all one team has to do is shut down one Sedin and half of a Kesler to neuter the Canucks offensively. That is WAY too easy for another team.

There were two essential pieces missing from this year's roster and two "dead weights."

ONE: The lack of a VERSATILE second line forward who could play any position including centre in case one of Henrik, Kesler, or Malhotra went down. Nobody could foresee Manny going down but having only three capable top 9 centres is just terrible. One centre goes down and the rest of the roster is basically boned. This forward should have been playing centre for the second line powerplay. Instead of having this player, we have Mason Raymond.

TWO: A playmaking winger for Kesler. YEP. I don't know if anybody got the memo but Kesler is great when he plays with a playmaker (SEE: 2010-2011 powerplay unit), such as a Sedin. Of course, everybody is better with a playmaker. Kesler is a sniper now. He needs a proper playmaker. This has basically boned us. Instead of having a proper playmaker for Kesler, we have Samuelsson who thinks he is a sniper. Bad puck distribution in this as Kesler does not trust his linemates' puck possession ability enough to give up the puck to them. This playmaker would have been the fourth offensive threat that we severely lack (basically every good team has 4 top offensive players who are ppg threats.. Giroux/Richards/Carter/Briere, Hossa/Sharp/Toews/Kane, Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen, RPG/Selanne, Thornton/Marleau/Clowe/Heatley/Pavelski/Couture, Ovechkin/Semin/Backstrom/Green..) and would have relieved pressure off the Sedins and Kesler. He too would have played the second unit to give us two legitimate offensive PP units instead of one great one and one pathetic one. I wanted Gillis to get one of Hemsky or Penner so badly.

This was on Gillis. He didn't prepare for a top 9 centre injury. He didn't diagnose the problems of the second line. Gillis built a great team but it's not perfect. I'm not saying we should fire Gillis- in fact, the opposite is true. Gillis will learn from these mistakes and will rectify them because he has every year so far. The core is still locked up. I will be pissed if these two problems are not corrected.

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04-23-2011, 02:54 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Daniel has been our best offensive player because he's put up 2 great games. He's also put up 3 horrendous games. -3 in game 4, and -1 in game 5, and shutout in game 1. The Sedin line hasn't generated any offensive pressure in the offensive zone. I'm including Burrows in this too because he's played like crap! He's a guy who everyone made excuses for because of injuries in the past, but what's his excuse now?

I don't care what we get back for the Sedins to be honest. If we can get back a top forward who could perhaps use a change of scenery like Malkin or Staal fine. If not, well there are some teams who could absorb their cap hits and we could get some nice prospects for them. Send 'em to Winnipeg and bring in Kyle Turris. Or send 'em to Florida for Erik Gudbranson and David Booth. Or how about Atlanta/Quebec for Evander Kane and Bryan Little? Just some suggestions, not saying I'm expecting any of these to happen. But I'd be okay with a rebuild if we get bounced in round 1 because this is a core group that's been together for years and has not proven they can perform in the playoffs.
Lunacy.

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