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Old
04-24-2011, 04:33 PM
  #126
clmetsfan
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Originally Posted by Dsteppp View Post
1) he is already 30 years old
2) he is coming off of a concussion
3) he will be demanding elite player money (most likely nothing less than 6.5/per)
4) we will have to give him at least 5-6 years

besides all of that, our track record with free agent signings has been horrific. We are finally close to the end of Drury's contract, somehow we were able to get rid of Gomez's contract, and we found away to make Redden go away. We don't have to give out a buttload of money the first chance we get.
1 and 2) 30 years old, just coming off a concussion, and his last two seasons he just put up his best and third-best PPG numbers of an already stellar career. In short, he hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.

3 and 4) Yeah, he'll get elite player money because he IS an elite player. Bringing up Drury, Gomez, and Redden is pointless, because they were NOT elite players.

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04-24-2011, 04:37 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
4) Yeah, he'll get elite player money because he IS an elite player.
thats debatable. And if he is "elite" then it will only last a couple more seasons and we will be stuck with a declining player still making "elite" money for most of his contract.

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04-24-2011, 04:45 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Dsteppp View Post
thats debatable.
It's really not. Here are some players with a lower career PPG average: Marian Hossa, Mike Modano, Martin St. Louis, Jarome Iginla, Eric Staal, Vinny Lecavaliere, Daniel and Henrik Sedin....

Want to tell me those aren't elite players?

Quote:
And if he is "elite" then it will only last a couple more seasons and we will be stuck with a declining player still making "elite" money for most of his contract.
There is exactly zero evidence to support this statement.

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04-24-2011, 04:46 PM
  #129
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It's taken me awhile but, I'm officially on the Richards bandwagon. Richards+Callahan, and we beat the Caps. Or at least push it 7 games.

I don't think both Boyle+Anisimov are on next season's roster. I think Sather flips one of them for a top-6 LW. I prefer we keep AA, but I think Boyle is more of a 'Torts' kind of guy.

We shouldn't do anything defensively. Our top-4 is set in stone, imo. Gilroy, hopefully MDZ, and a vet who can play RD.

Prospal and Feds can provide a lot of bang for the buck. Sign the both of them. If a youngster outplays them in camp, you can probably easily flip one of them. Or waive them. Vinny helped the PP a bit. His emotion alone is invaluable. I hope we can move on from Drury, and retain a guy like Vinny.

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04-24-2011, 04:47 PM
  #130
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Signing Richards gives us a finite window to win a cup (next 3 years) and then puts us in a position where he'll underperform his contract. I don't think that we're one Richards away from winning a cup right now and I feel uncomfortable relying on him to maintain his high level of play. Honestly, I think we're going to end up paying him 7 million a year for 60 points by the time the team around him is ready to compete. That's a huge disadvantage in a cap sport (if there wasn't a cap, I'd sign him no doubt). The 2013 free agent period is going to have at least a few Richard-quality signings available and I think that's right around the time where a signing like this would put us at a cup-winning level.

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04-24-2011, 04:53 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
The 2013 free agent period is going to have at least a few Richard-quality signings available and I think that's right around the time where a signing like this would put us at a cup-winning level.
This... Ryan Getzlaf and/or Jordan Staal would be great signings. (if they make it to free agency)

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Old
04-24-2011, 04:55 PM
  #132
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UFAs
Brad Richards
Ruslan Fedotenko - resigned 2 years
Jarko Rutuu (Ev ? - if they decide they want to dump Avery)
Steve MacIntyre (Ev to replace Boogaard for cheap if he is done for good?)
Andrei Markov

Resign
Cally
Dubi
AA
Boyle
Anisimov
Gilroy (this is apparently part of the plan)

Not resigned - gone
Prospal
White
Frolov
Avery (if Rutuu signs)
Eminger
McCabe

Tradebait? Ev for a 1st line LW & possibly 3rd line LW/Rw
Wolski
Grachev
ev 1-2 of MDZ/Valetenko/Pashin/Kundratek
Draft picks
Other prospects
MZA?
Ev Boyle or Anisimov?
----------------------------
Avery?? (very difficult imo - AHL?)
Drury ??? (IMPOSSIBLE to do - or?)

Gone - but how ??
Redden (Breaks contract?)
Drury (Retires ?? - he is so done!!!)
Boogaard (retires due to PCS or breach of contract?)
Sather??? (PIPEDREAM)

FORWARDS
Wojtek Wolski ($3.800m) / Brad Richards ($6.900m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($3.900m) / Artem Anisimov ($1.800m) / Ryan Callahan ($3.900m)
One of Mats Zuccarello-Aasen, Chris Kreider, Carl Hagelin or Evgeny Grachev (MAX $1.750m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / One of Sean Avery, Christian Thomas, converted LW:er or Jarko Rutuu (MAX $1.937m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.500m) / Brian Boyle ($1.800m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Steve MacIntyre ($0.600m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Andrei Markov ($4.500m)
Ryan McDonagh ($1.300m) / Daniel Girardi ($3.325m)
One of Michael Del Zotto or Pavel Valetenko (MAX $1.087m) / Mike Sauer ($1.400m)
Matt Gilroy ($1.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($0.875m)

Totals without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,400,000; BONUSES: $1,487,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,000,000

Do not know the ev bonus sum that rolls over from this year -- which would hamper this... There are also possible savings on some posts here...


Last edited by BBKers: 04-24-2011 at 05:17 PM.
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Old
04-24-2011, 04:58 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsteppp View Post
This... Ryan Getzlaf and/or Jordan Staal would be great signings.
Yeah, with the Pens having to re-sign Crosby that year, Jordan Staal will most likely end up being a free agent. Heck, who knows what Crosby might want to do that year. Plus, one of Perry/Getzlaf will likely test the market. Then there's a bunch of talent like Derek Roy, Mike Fisher, PM Bouchard, Ryan Whitney, Nathan Horton, Zajac, Tobias Enstrom, Ryane Clowe, Vlastic, Matt Lombardi, Stephen Weiss, Filppula, etc. that aren't exactly superstars but will be intriguing options.

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Old
04-24-2011, 05:02 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsteppp View Post
This... Ryan Getzlaf and/or Jordan Staal would be great signings. (if they make it to free agency)
Instead of relying on Anaheim making a stupid move and letting Getzlaf go into free agency, we could of saved the trouble by DRAFTING Getzlaf in the first place

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04-24-2011, 05:14 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
Yeah, with the Pens having to re-sign Crosby that year, Jordan Staal will most likely end up being a free agent. Heck, who knows what Crosby might want to do that year. Plus, one of Perry/Getzlaf will likely test the market. Then there's a bunch of talent like Derek Roy, Mike Fisher, PM Bouchard, Ryan Whitney, Nathan Horton, Zajac, Tobias Enstrom, Ryane Clowe, Vlastic, Matt Lombardi, Stephen Weiss, Filppula, etc. that aren't exactly superstars but will be intriguing options.
GMs don't wait 2-3 down the road for a player unless they know said player will 100% be a free agent. GMs also have a very keen sense of who will and will not hit the market. Getzlaf and Perry ARE NOT LEAVING Anaheim. Sather knows that Richards may be the best/only center available in the next few years.

We all know that Crosby isn't leaving Pittsburgh (I pray I am wrong). So with the exception of Getzlaf who will almost certainly re-sign with Anaheim, nobody better than or equal to Richards is available in the next few years.

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04-24-2011, 05:23 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
GMs don't wait 2-3 down the road for a player unless they know said player will 100% be a free agent. GMs also have a very keen sense of who will and will not hit the market. Getzlaf and Perry ARE NOT LEAVING Anaheim. Sather knows that Richards may be the best/only center available in the next few years.

We all know that Crosby isn't leaving Pittsburgh (I pray I am wrong). So with the exception of Getzlaf who will almost certainly re-sign with Anaheim, nobody better than or equal to Richards is available in the next few years.
It's also extremely risky to assume that Richards will play at a 7 million dollar level for more than 2 years of what will end up being a 5 year contract.

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04-24-2011, 05:29 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
It's also extremely risky to assume that Richards will play at a 7 million dollar level for more than 2 years of what will end up being a 5 year contract.
No it's not. Let's face it, the majority of people here are afraid of the words "UFA, Long-Term, and $7 million, etc). Not even just our board, the whole HF community is afraid, and they really shouldn't be. A majority of people here would cringe if their team signed a 35 year old Crosby to a 2 Year/$14 million per deal.

Richards is the kind of player you give that money to.

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04-24-2011, 05:36 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
No it's not. Let's face it, the majority of people here are afraid of the words "UFA, Long-Term, and $7 million, etc). Not even just our board, the whole HF community is afraid, and they really shouldn't be. A majority of people here would cringe if their team signed a 35 year old Crosby to a 2 Year/$14 million per deal.

Richards is the kind of player you give that money to.
Agreed. Don't be afraid to pay Richards.(within reason) I can promise that he is 10 times better than Gomez and Drury. He's a true playmaker. The guy is consistent and he is still scoring at a mid age of a hockey player.

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04-24-2011, 06:33 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
Then there's a bunch of talent like Derek Roy, Mike Fisher, PM Bouchard, Ryan Whitney, Nathan Horton, Zajac, Tobias Enstrom, Ryane Clowe, Vlastic, Matt Lombardi, Stephen Weiss, Filppula, etc. that aren't exactly superstars but will be intriguing options.
Signing players like these as UFA's is what got us into the position we're in. Overpaying for guys that aren't "exactly superstars".

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04-24-2011, 07:04 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsteppp View Post
This... Ryan Getzlaf and/or Jordan Staal would be great signings. (if they make it to free agency)
They probably (Getzlaf definitely) won't make it.

And I don't care how much younger he is, in terms of helping/fitting on this team, Richards >>>>> Staal.

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04-24-2011, 07:12 PM
  #141
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So we shouldn't sign Richards but Jordan Staal is someone who we should target? Talk about Drury 2.0, and I think when all is said and done, Drury will have had a better career than Staal. Jordan Staal is a decent 2nd line center but there's no way he can carry a top line.

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04-24-2011, 07:16 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by NY Lito View Post
They probably (Getzlaf definitely) won't make it.

And I don't care how much younger he is, in terms of helping/fitting on this team, Richards >>>>> Staal.
yeah...but...imagine the hype MSG network puts up for the Staal Bros.! Think of all the commercials, and the jersey RE-sales, with adding the J. and M.

But for real, getz, and staal wont make it to FA. Theres no way either of those players teams let them walk. Honestly, if you(not you, directed at all posters) were a GM, would you let them walk?

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04-24-2011, 07:23 PM
  #143
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But for real, getz, and staal wont make it to FA. Theres no way either of those players teams let them walk.
Pittsburgh is paying Malkin and Crosby 8.7m each. Who knows if they will be able to pay their 3rd line center what he will be asking for.

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04-24-2011, 07:54 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
Signing Richards gives us a finite window to win a cup (next 3 years) and then puts us in a position where he'll underperform his contract. I don't think that we're one Richards away from winning a cup right now and I feel uncomfortable relying on him to maintain his high level of play. Honestly, I think we're going to end up paying him 7 million a year for 60 points by the time the team around him is ready to compete. That's a huge disadvantage in a cap sport (if there wasn't a cap, I'd sign him no doubt). The 2013 free agent period is going to have at least a few Richard-quality signings available and I think that's right around the time where a signing like this would put us at a cup-winning level.
The Richards window pretty much coincides with Lundqvist and Gaborik's 'window'. That's not to say these guys can't lead a team on a run but their time is closer to now than 3 years from now. I'm not saying now or never but I think it's more prudent to give it a go now.

And I keep seeing the phrase "we're more than just a Richards away". That's not taking into account just how good and cheap our defense will be in a few years, maybe even next year. The defense was there for this team, the goal scoring is just a huge issue right now. If Gaborik just does his job and we add 2 pieces up front, maybe find a puck mover for the back end either inside or outside the organization, I think they're in business. Especially in the East, it's conceivable that any of the top 8 in the East can make it to the Finals.

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04-24-2011, 07:57 PM
  #145
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Anyone think Markov on a good deal would be a good investment? Guy is a great offensive puck moving defenseman and solid on the PP

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04-24-2011, 08:14 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Dsteppp View Post
Pittsburgh is paying Malkin and Crosby 8.7m each. Who knows if they will be able to pay their 3rd line center what he will be asking for.
But that's the point, he's a 2nd line center at best. Whoever said Drury 2.0 was dead on. Staal's a 50-point player. You really think that's a viable alternative to a guy who has twice hit the 90-point mark?

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04-24-2011, 08:22 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
Honestly, I think we're going to end up paying him 7 million a year for 60 points by the time the team around him is ready to compete.
You know what...if we had Callahan and a 60 point Drury we could have very well beaten the Caps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
The 2013 free agent period is going to have at least a few Richard-quality signings available and I think that's right around the time where a signing like this would put us at a cup-winning level.
There is never a guarantee a player reaches UFA status. A UFA in hand is worth several in the bush.

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04-24-2011, 08:24 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
Anyone think Markov on a good deal would be a good investment? Guy is a great offensive puck moving defenseman and solid on the PP
For a cheap price. He is 32 years old. I'd only sign him if we are keeping MDZ down in the A but like I said, I wouldn't shell out a lot for Markov.

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04-24-2011, 08:33 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
The Richards window pretty much coincides with Lundqvist and Gaborik's 'window'. That's not to say these guys can't lead a team on a run but their time is closer to now than 3 years from now. I'm not saying now or never but I think it's more prudent to give it a go now.
Gaborik, yeah, but he only has 3 years left on his deal. Lundqvist just turned 29 and goalies tend to last longer. I'd say he has a window of more like 7-9 years of consistent top 5 goalie play. Knock on wood.

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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
There is never a guarantee a player reaches UFA status. A UFA in hand is worth several in the bush.
I know that, you can never assume someone is going to be available like Richards will be. But, especially in capped sports, contracts can have negative value. You have a roster to complete and only a certain amount of money to fill it with. If Richards is getting paid 7 million a year to produce 60 points, it's a huge detriment when you can sign a 60 point guy for a contract that pays half. You want every dollar you spend to have maximum output. I haven't done the research to determine what warrants a 7 million dollar contract but I have a hunch that Richards won't be worth 7 million dollars in the second half of the contract. I would be less concerned if Richards was the only PPG scorer on an offensively deprived team but the Stars had forwards that are probably better than ours. We could very well be walking into paying him 7 million for 70 points next season. That's a slippery slope.

Now, I realize that you need elite talent and it comes at a premium price. Every Cup contending team has those contracts and it's those teams that get the most output from those premier talents. With the Rangers picking after the top ten most years, we're not going to have many chances to have surefire top liners coming up through our system (crossing my fingers on Kreider and Thomas). Our elite talent is going to be signed most likely but I'm not completely sold that Richards is the type of guy we should be going all-in on. He's a great player but he's not without question.

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04-24-2011, 08:37 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Signing players like these as UFA's is what got us into the position we're in. Overpaying for guys that aren't "exactly superstars".
We overpaid Drury and Gomez because we had money to spend in a pretty thin free agent class. Richards has no competition this offseason for the big bucks and he's going to get every cent that a player of his quality could. "Not quite superstars" don't get overpaid if there's a market filled with them. I fear that the demand for the upcoming free agent class is going to be much higher than the talent supply.

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