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Old
06-26-2011, 06:23 PM
  #526
sa cyred
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My guesses include..

- Schenn and Couturier fight for the 3rd line center spot, Schenn winning it because he has more experience/older.

- Carcillo doesnt get resigned. Powe OR Nodl get resigned (most likely Powe) (not both)

- I see Cole getting signed. Alot of beat guys/ rumor guys are saying we are after him. I know a few people here dont like him, but I can see it happening.

- Let Ville Leino go.

- Erik Gustafsson makes the team, so we dont have to pay an older guy more than we have to.

- I can't see Shelly NOT making the team. The Flyers staff LOVE him.


CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Erik Cole ($3.400m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($2.000m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,151,705; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $148,295

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Old
06-26-2011, 06:42 PM
  #527
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Holy ****, my entire post was just lost so I have to re-type it.


First off, with all this cap space we now have I'd send Bogo an offer sheet. With the cap going up to 63.4 mil, we can offer him up to 4.95 mil and the compensation would be our 2012 1st and 3rd rnd picks which we still have (for now).

Then I trade Carle for a 2012 2nd.

Resign Voracek, Simmons, Powe and Nodl, let Carcillo and Leino walk

Sign one of Cole or Torres for around 2.5 mil.

Run with the following:


Hartnell (4.2) - Briere (6.5) - Voracek (2.5)
JVR (1.7) - Giroux (3.7) - Simmons (2.0)
Cole/Torres (2.5) - Schenn (3.1) - Nodl (1.0)
Shelly (1.1) - Betts (0.7) - Powe (0.8)
Rinaldo/Read (0.9)

Bogo (4.5) - Pronger (4.9)
Timonen (6.4) - Coburn (3.2)
Gustafsson (0.9) - Mesz (4.0)
Bart (0.6)

Bryz (5.7)
Bob (1.7)

22-man roster, 62.6 mil cap hit, 1.8 mil in cap space for injuries/other.

I like this lineup


Holy cow, just realized I forgot about Versteeg. Hmm, that screws thing up. I'll have to think about htis one some more. Maybe we dont sign Nodl, keep Versteeg, give Bogo/Cole/Torres half a mil less and then we have enough to keep Versteeg and he replaces Nodl on the 3rd line. I like that even better.

Maybe I should just have us trade Versteeg for a late 1st in 2012 to replace the one we lose in the Bogo offer sheet. Doesn't matter to me.


Last edited by phlocky: 06-26-2011 at 06:47 PM.
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Old
06-26-2011, 06:43 PM
  #528
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^^ i concur

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Old
06-26-2011, 06:49 PM
  #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Holy ****, my entire post was just lost so I have to re-type it.


First off, with all this cap space we now have I'd send Bogo an offer sheet. With the cap going up to 63.4 mil, we can offer him up to 4.95 mil and the compensation would be our 2012 1st and 3rd rnd picks which we still have (for now).

Then I trade Carle for a 2012 2nd.

Resign Voracek, Simmons, Powe and Nodl, let Carcillo and Leino walk

Sign one of Cole or Torres for around 2.5 mil.

Run with the following:


Hartnell (4.2) - Briere (6.5) - Voracek (2.5)
JVR (1.7) - Giroux (3.7) - Simmons (2.0)
Cole/Torres (2.5) - Schenn (3.1) - Nodl (1.0)
Shelly (1.1) - Betts (0.7) - Powe (0.8)
Rinaldo/Read (0.9)

Bogo (4.5) - Pronger (4.9)
Timonen (6.4) - Coburn (3.2)
Gustafsson (0.9) - Mesz (4.0)
Bart (0.6)

Bryz (5.7)
Bob (1.7)

22-man roster, 62.6 mil cap hit, 1.8 mil in cap space for injuries/other.

I like this lineup
Cole will get more than that, but otherwise that's great.

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Old
06-26-2011, 06:56 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Cole will get more than that, but otherwise that's great.
I have him or Torres at 2.5 mil. I have 1.8 mil in extra cap space. I COULD go up to 4.3 mil and still be ok. I might go as high as 3.3 mil for Cole but if he wants more than that then I'd just rather keep Versteeg. I'm also probably a littl high on Simmons as I feel 1.5 is more realistic but I was building in a little bit of wiggle room in case Voracek costs a little bit more, bogo gets a little more, or if we want to give Cole/Torres a little more.

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Old
06-26-2011, 06:59 PM
  #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Holy ****, my entire post was just lost so I have to re-type it.


First off, with all this cap space we now have I'd send Bogo an offer sheet. With the cap going up to 63.4 mil, we can offer him up to 4.95 mil and the compensation would be our 2012 1st and 3rd rnd picks which we still have (for now).

Then I trade Carle for a 2012 2nd.
I think many need to come to the conclusion that Carle is probably not going to be moved. For the reasons I have stated many times. And he is a better player than many give him credit for. The Flyers brass has mentioned recently that one of their goals was to keep the defense intact. And I knew that all along. For obvious reasons.

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06-26-2011, 07:02 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I think many need to come to the conclusion that Carle is probably not going to be moved. For the reasons I have stated many times. And he is a better player than many give him credit for. The Flyers brass has mentioned recently that one of their goals was to keep the defense intact. And I knew that all along. For obvious reasons.
I'll take Bogo over Carle anyday, and we do need to start grooming some of these prospects to be NHL defenseman. Our D pool looked quite promising a couple years ago, but they've all seemed to hit a wall...

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Old
06-26-2011, 07:05 PM
  #533
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If Homer and Co. Are building this team on defense then they need to get a reliable #6 defenseman. Someone big and Physical that Meszaros can play with.

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Old
06-26-2011, 07:22 PM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I think many need to come to the conclusion that Carle is probably not going to be moved. For the reasons I have stated many times. And he is a better player than many give him credit for. The Flyers brass has mentioned recently that one of their goals was to keep the defense intact. And I knew that all along. For obvious reasons.
You really wanna argue Carle again? We all know you like him. That's cool.

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Old
06-26-2011, 08:02 PM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I think many need to come to the conclusion that Carle is probably not going to be moved. For the reasons I have stated many times. And he is a better player than many give him credit for. The Flyers brass has mentioned recently that one of their goals was to keep the defense intact. And I knew that all along. For obvious reasons.

Umm, I've been one of the biggest defenders of Carle since he got here. I think he's a little over paid and the only reason I feel that he's less "valuable" to our team than coburn is that Mesz CAN do Carles job but Coburn is the only one of the 3 that can do HIS job. Carle is actually better than Coburn and I'm serious. It's just that Coburn is the only one who can be the physical presence on Timonens pairing. Also, if we could get Bogo then Carle is immediately expendable. bogo is a much better version of Carle right now with an even higher upside. THAT is the only reason i have us moving him.

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06-26-2011, 08:38 PM
  #536
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I think the plan is to invest heavily on defense and fill the forward positions with young cheap players who have the potential to play well above their salary. We started to invest in defense the last 2 years but management was still under the delusion that goaltending was not part of defense and unwilling to sacrifice offense to do it. Getting completely shut down and embarrassed by Boston was the best thing for us. So I don't think we will move any of the 5 we have and will grab a UFA significantly better than O'Donnell as our #6.

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Old
06-26-2011, 08:54 PM
  #537
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.500m)
Jakub Voracek ($2.000m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Brooks Laich ($4.400m)
Darroll Powe ($0.775m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.800m)
Tom Sestito ($0.635m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
/ Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,916,428; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $383,572

Overpaying Laich a bit since he's a UFA.

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Old
06-26-2011, 08:59 PM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Umm, I've been one of the biggest defenders of Carle since he got here. I think he's a little over paid and the only reason I feel that he's less "valuable" to our team than coburn is that Mesz CAN do Carles job but Coburn is the only one of the 3 that can do HIS job. Carle is actually better than Coburn and I'm serious. It's just that Coburn is the only one who can be the physical presence on Timonens pairing. Also, if we could get Bogo then Carle is immediately expendable. bogo is a much better version of Carle right now with an even higher upside. THAT is the only reason i have us moving him.
Dead on. Carle is a better D than Coburn but Coburn brings the physical presence we need. I mentioned before that I wouldn't mind Carle and Versteeg getting traded then we would free up some room to bring in Bieska and then have Sesito play on the third line. Carle is good but he would be better off in a better system that fits him.

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Old
06-26-2011, 09:03 PM
  #539
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I really hope we can grab laich for a couple years at 3-3.5... adds some size down the middle and can play wing if schenn or/and couturier are ready, and if not can fill a hole.

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06-26-2011, 09:05 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Dead on. Carle is a better D than Coburn but Coburn brings the physical presence we need. I mentioned before that I wouldn't mind Carle and Versteeg getting traded then we would free up some room to bring in Bieska and then have Sesito play on the third line. Carle is good but he would be better off in a better system that fits him.
Honestly dont think there is a better system for carle than playing with pronger in a deep defensive corps that spreads our the responsibility.

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06-26-2011, 09:06 PM
  #541
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Yeah, now that we have cap space, I have no problem with keeping Carle, given Pronger's health issues and the possibility that he could be even slower this year with his back.

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06-26-2011, 09:47 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Honestly dont think there is a better system for carle than playing with pronger in a deep defensive corps that spreads our the responsibility.
Carle is legitimately a 2nd pairing dman. When he's with Pronger he is sent out there every shift up against the other teams best line. He freaking plays against Crosby and Ovi for Gods sake. Yes I know how good Pronger is and that he carries Carle but it's not like Carle is bad or anything. Pronger enables him to play above where he SHOULD be playing an Carle does alright with it. He's a very smart dman and positions himself pretty well, he's just not that physical. However, he knows how to work well with Pronger and they DO make a solid top pairing. I fully nderstand that Timonen basically did the same thing for both Coburn and Parent but the difference is that both Coburn and especially Parent were lost without Timonen. Carle CAN hold his own for a short while without Pronger, something those other 2 cannot do.

as much as everyone was slobbering over Meszaros' (hehehe, can't say it) he's not nearly as good as Carle RIGHT NOW. He has the potential to be a true top pairing dman, but right now he's our 5th dman for a very good reason. If it cost us our 2012 1st and Meszaros instead of Carle to get Bogo then that's a deal I make. I'd be ok with keeping Carle and just resigning him for about the same salary next year. I think he'd be fine on the bottom pairing with Gustafsson (assuming Bogo jumps up with Pronger on the top pairing). And I SERIOUSLY don't want to hear everyone *****ing about paying our bottom pairing dman 3.5 mil, we are CURRENTLY paying Meszaros 4 mil to play on the bottom pairing and nobody *****ed about that.

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06-26-2011, 09:50 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Carle is legitimately a 2nd pairing dman. When he's with Pronger he is sent out there every shift up against the other teams best line. He freaking plays against Crosby and Ovi for Gods sake. Yes I know how good Pronger is and that he carries Carle but it's not like Carle is bad or anything. Pronger enables him to play above where he SHOULD be playing an Carle does alright with it. He's a very smart dman and positions himself pretty well, he's just not that physical. However, he knows how to work well with Pronger and they DO make a solid top pairing. I fully nderstand that Timonen basically did the same thing for both Coburn and Parent but the difference is that both Coburn and especially Parent were lost without Timonen. Carle CAN hold his own for a short while without Pronger, something those other 2 cannot do.

as much as everyone was slobbering over Meszaros' (hehehe, can't say it) he's not nearly as good as Carle RIGHT NOW. He has the potential to be a true top pairing dman, but right now he's our 5th dman for a very good reason. If it cost us our 2012 1st and Meszaros instead of Carle to get Bogo then that's a deal I make. I'd be ok with keeping Carle and just resigning him for about the same salary next year. I think he'd be fine on the bottom pairing with Gustafsson (assuming Bogo jumps up with Pronger on the top pairing). And I SERIOUSLY don't want to hear everyone *****ing about paying our bottom pairing dman 3.5 mil, we are CURRENTLY paying Meszaros 4 mil to play on the bottom pairing and nobody *****ed about that.
I like carle and my post wasnt bashing him. Carle and pronger play well together, and to be honest carle makes up for pronger being not so mobile alot of the time from what I see.

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06-26-2011, 10:01 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Carle is legitimately a 2nd pairing dman. When he's with Pronger he is sent out there every shift up against the other teams best line. He freaking plays against Crosby and Ovi for Gods sake. Yes I know how good Pronger is and that he carries Carle but it's not like Carle is bad or anything. Pronger enables him to play above where he SHOULD be playing an Carle does alright with it. He's a very smart dman and positions himself pretty well, he's just not that physical. However, he knows how to work well with Pronger and they DO make a solid top pairing. I fully nderstand that Timonen basically did the same thing for both Coburn and Parent but the difference is that both Coburn and especially Parent were lost without Timonen. Carle CAN hold his own for a short while without Pronger, something those other 2 cannot do.

as much as everyone was slobbering over Meszaros' (hehehe, can't say it) he's not nearly as good as Carle RIGHT NOW. He has the potential to be a true top pairing dman, but right now he's our 5th dman for a very good reason. If it cost us our 2012 1st and Meszaros instead of Carle to get Bogo then that's a deal I make. I'd be ok with keeping Carle and just resigning him for about the same salary next year. I think he'd be fine on the bottom pairing with Gustafsson (assuming Bogo jumps up with Pronger on the top pairing). And I SERIOUSLY don't want to hear everyone *****ing about paying our bottom pairing dman 3.5 mil, we are CURRENTLY paying Meszaros 4 mil to play on the bottom pairing and nobody *****ed about that.
Actually a lot of us did ***** about that when he was acquired.

Also, minor thing, but Kimmo and Coburn play against Ovechkin a bit more than Pronger and Carle, given that Coburn suddenly becomes superhuman when he's charged with shutting down Ovechkin.

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06-26-2011, 10:04 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Actually a lot of us did ***** about that when he was acquired.

Also, minor thing, but Kimmo and Coburn play against Ovechkin a bit more than Pronger and Carle, given that Coburn suddenly becomes superhuman when he's charged with shutting down Ovechkin.

Lol, yeah, I know. Coburn vs Ovi is reminiscent of bundy vs Jagr. Bundy sucked every other game but he just freaking OWNED Jagr. Bundy was frustrating as hell. I just wanted him to pretend that EVERYBODY was Jagr and then Bundy wouldn't have caused me so much heartburn.

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06-26-2011, 10:05 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
I like carle and my post wasnt bashing him. Carle and pronger play well together, and to be honest carle makes up for pronger being not so mobile alot of the time from what I see.

I know, I was just elaborating about Carle. I wasn't "calling you out" or anything. I was agreeing with you and giving some more info on how I see it. It's all good.

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06-26-2011, 10:39 PM
  #547
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Lol, yeah, I know. Coburn vs Ovi is reminiscent of bundy vs Jagr. Bundy sucked every other game but he just freaking OWNED Jagr. Bundy was frustrating as hell. I just wanted him to pretend that EVERYBODY was Jagr and then Bundy wouldn't have caused me so much heartburn.
That's actually what I always think of as well. IIRC, Saunders actually asked Bundy about it one game, and Bundy basically just said that he hated the guy.

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06-26-2011, 11:41 PM
  #548
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FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.200m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.350m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.770m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($3.800m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,976,428; BONUSES: $3,940,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $323,572

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06-26-2011, 11:46 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.200m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.350m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.770m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($3.800m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,976,428; BONUSES: $3,940,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $323,572
While I would absolutely love Bieksa, I feel like he's going to get a lot more than $3.8 million. I wouldn't surprised if some desperate team threw $5 million at him.

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06-26-2011, 11:46 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.200m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.350m)
Kris Versteeg ($3.083m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.770m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($3.800m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,976,428; BONUSES: $3,940,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $323,572
Is Bieksa really even worth that?

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