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Old
06-26-2011, 11:48 PM
  #551
orange is better
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Is Bieksa really even worth that?
see, that's what im wondering.

he's 30, and i don't really know what he'd be commanding for his next contract, so i just preliminarily gave him 50k more than his current cap hit.

what do you think he'll be signing for?

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06-26-2011, 11:53 PM
  #552
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Is Bieksa really even worth that?
I'd say somewhere in that ballpark, but he'll get more from a team desperate to reach cap floor. He brings it all over the ice.

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06-26-2011, 11:54 PM
  #553
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Honestly, with the season he had, he's more like Coburn, but older and a bit shorter. I think he shouldn't ever get anything more than 3.5M, but I'd say his salary would probably be about 3M maybe.

And these are the salaries he should be worth.

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06-27-2011, 12:02 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
While I would absolutely love Bieksa, I feel like he's going to get a lot more than $3.8 million. I wouldn't surprised if some desperate team threw $5 million at him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Is Bieksa really even worth that?
Bieksa just had a hell of a year. I'm with GoD here, there aren't too many top 4 d's out there as ufa's this year and Bieksa should be in for quite a raise.

I'd love him on our team as well, but think the chances of that happening are slim.

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06-27-2011, 12:06 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Bieksa just had a hell of a year. I'm with GoD here, there aren't too many top 4 d's out there as ufa's this year and Bieksa should be in for quite a raise.

I'd love him on our team as well, but think the chances of that happening are slim.
how about a guy like Christian Ehrhoff or maybe Jan Hejda?

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06-27-2011, 12:07 AM
  #556
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I still think we should just give the job to Gustafsson and Bartulis for our #6 and #7, and let them fight it out for the #6 spot.

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06-27-2011, 12:11 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I still think we should just give the job to Gustafsson and Bartulis for our #6 and #7, and let them fight it out for the #6 spot.
i think that the chances of that happening may be pretty slim, given the teams intentions of becoming a team reliant upon defense. i think they're pretty set on that.

i think you'll likely see them bring one free agent defenseman brought in, let leino walk, and give brayden schenn the 3rd line center job.

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06-27-2011, 12:13 AM
  #558
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
i think that the chances of that happening may be pretty slim, given the teams intentions of becoming a team reliant upon defense. i think they're pretty set on that.

i think you'll likely see them bring one free agent defenseman brought in, let leino walk, and give brayden schenn the 3rd line center job.
Our #6 can be a little weak/unproven mainly because of the goalie we have in net now. Honestly, I think Bartulis has played fine for when he has. Gustafsson could be a surprise to us and it would be fun.

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06-27-2011, 12:19 AM
  #559
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Erik Cole ($3.000m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Tom Sestito ($0.577m) / / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,078,372; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $221,628

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:24 AM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
i think that the chances of that happening may be pretty slim, given the teams intentions of becoming a team reliant upon defense. i think they're pretty set on that.

i think you'll likely see them bring one free agent defenseman brought in, let leino walk, and give brayden schenn the 3rd line center job.
I'll be honest, I personally would be surprised if they brought another defender in.... especially at the price some of them are asking for (even the 3rd pairing ones).

With Breezy in net, I dont think we need to have 6 defenders who can all play top 4. I would be perfectly fine with a Meszaros-Gustafsson 3rd pairing.

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06-27-2011, 12:28 AM
  #561
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I'll be honest, I personally would be surprised if they brought another defender in.... especially at the price some of them are asking for (even the 3rd pairing ones).

With Breezy in net, I dont think we need to have 6 defenders who can all play top 4. I would be perfectly fine with a Meszaros-Gustafsson 3rd pairing.
that would be fine and dandy, if our top 2 defenseman weren't 36, and if one of them wasn't coming off back surgery.

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06-27-2011, 12:37 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
that would be fine and dandy, if our top 2 defenseman weren't 36, and if one of them wasn't coming off back surgery.
Going that route is fine. On the other hand, you have to be realistic. We're not getting Christian Ehrhoff or Kevin Bieksa to play on our 3rd pairing. Hejda maybe, Babchuk maybe, but you're talking about having 6 defensemen that would be top-3 defensemen on most teams. That's not financially feasible.

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06-27-2011, 12:45 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Ghost of Downie View Post
Going that route is fine. On the other hand, you have to be realistic. We're not getting Christian Ehrhoff or Kevin Bieksa to play on our 3rd pairing. Hejda maybe, Babchuk maybe, but you're talking about having 6 defensemen that would be top-3 defensemen on most teams. That's not financially feasible.
yes, which is why i've been suggesting jan hejda since april.
I realize that having 6 top 3 defensemen is not financially feasible. but you cant go into a season, with an otherwise young roster, EXPECTING 2 defensemen who are over 36 to play an entirely healthy season. what if, by some circumstance, kimmo and pronger miss time due to injury and wear and tear? you're then looking at a defense of coburn, meszaros, carle, bartulis, gustafsson, ???. That is a disaster waiting to happen, and IF it did happen, i think this team would have a hard time even making the playoffs. You need a backup plan, and if it means signing another guy in the 3-4 million range who can play a lot of minutes, and who you can sign long enough so that he can fill the void when kimmo or pronger retire, i think that's a good idea.

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06-27-2011, 12:54 AM
  #564
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Bieska should get around 4.5-5.0

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06-27-2011, 01:02 AM
  #565
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
yes, which is why i've been suggesting jan hejda since april.
I realize that having 6 top 3 defensemen is not financially feasible. but you cant go into a season, with an otherwise young roster, EXPECTING 2 defensemen who are over 36 to play an entirely healthy season. what if, by some circumstance, kimmo and pronger miss time due to injury and wear and tear? you're then looking at a defense of coburn, meszaros, carle, bartulis, gustafsson, ???. That is a disaster waiting to happen, and IF it did happen, i think this team would have a hard time even making the playoffs. You need a backup plan, and if it means signing another guy in the 3-4 million range who can play a lot of minutes, and who you can sign long enough so that he can fill the void when kimmo or pronger retire, i think that's a good idea.
If you want to go that route, that's fine. That's why I listed Hejda and Babchuk as potential candidates. Bieksa and Ehrhoff aren't going to be in the $3-4 million range though.

If Pronger and Timonen are both out for an extended period of time without actually being finished for the season, I think we're screwed either way. You're not going to win a Stanley Cup with a top 4 of Meszaros, Carle, Coburn, and Hejda. If either one of those guys is out for the season though, then you utilize the LTIR space.

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06-27-2011, 01:09 AM
  #566
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I'm just gonna go full ****** with this one:

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Steven Stamkos ($8.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Vernon Fiddler ($2.000m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.725m)
Tom Sestito ($0.635m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.725m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,242,539; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $57,461

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06-27-2011, 01:13 AM
  #567
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
how about a guy like Christian Ehrhoff or maybe Jan Hejda?
Ehrhoff will get paid as well. Hejda could be interesting. My guess is we'll sign someone a little cheaper though. A competent and reliable 6th defender should be able to be had for around 1.5M

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06-27-2011, 06:06 AM
  #568
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I think we should focus on adding another top 6 forward to round out 3 scoring lines, and a 4th/3rd liner. Keep the defense we have now and let bart and gus fight it out like someone else said. Pick up depth at the deadline if need be. We need to develop one or both of those guys to see what we have with them, if they dont perfrom pick someone up for the stretch run.

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06-27-2011, 06:45 AM
  #569
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You really wanna argue Carle again? We all know you like him. That's cool.
I don't see that there is an argument. I posted many times why I thought that Carle wasn't going to be moved. And 90% on here chose Carle as the player to move to make Cap space. Well that never made much sense. And it seems based on the Flyers brass statements, that opinion is correct.

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Umm, I've been one of the biggest defenders of Carle since he got here. I think he's a little over paid and the only reason I feel that he's less "valuable" to our team than coburn is that Mesz CAN do Carles job but Coburn is the only one of the 3 that can do HIS job. Carle is actually better than Coburn and I'm serious. It's just that Coburn is the only one who can be the physical presence on Timonens pairing. Also, if we could get Bogo then Carle is immediately expendable. bogo is a much better version of Carle right now with an even higher upside. THAT is the only reason i have us moving him.
I don't look at it as who's better than who. Meszaros for instance can't move the puck or pass the puck as good as Carle can. That's Carle's strength. They all have strength and weaknesses that they bring to the ice. It's about the mix of players and how they use them. All 3 are very solid young defenseman that are valuable to this team. Bogosian may have a better upside, but he is not better than Carle right now in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Dead on. Carle is a better D than Coburn but Coburn brings the physical presence we need. I mentioned before that I wouldn't mind Carle and Versteeg getting traded then we would free up some room to bring in Bieska and then have Sesito play on the third line. Carle is good but he would be better off in a better system that fits him.

Sestito is a 4th line player at best at this point. I don't see why the system they play doesn't fit Carle. It's actually perfect for him.

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Old
06-27-2011, 09:10 AM
  #570
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Not saying that this is the best idea in the world, but here's how we could fit in Stamkos...

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Steven Stamkos ($10.000m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.400m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.850m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.600m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Matt Read ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Steve Montador ($1.800m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,839,762; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $460,238

Basically, trade Timonen (which hurts, but he is in decline and will be gone within two years anyhow) and Versteeg (meh) for futures. Bury the usual player in the minors/trade them, and don't re-sign Leino. Use some of the cap savings from the trades to sign a good #5 D (up to $2M in salary).

Then offersheet Stamkos for 10@10M.

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06-27-2011, 09:17 AM
  #571
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Pure Fantasy on this one:

-Stamkos offersheet 10m per season anywhere between 1 year and 19 years until he's 40, your choice but I'm getting the cap hit way up there.
-Versteeg and Carle traded
-Shelley, Lappy, Leighton... so long and thanks for all the fish.
-RFA's signed: Voracek, Simmonds, Nodl, Powe
-UFA's signed: Fiddler and Miller for the 3rd line, Salei to anchor a pairing with Mesz
-Gus and Bart make the team, Schenn doesn't b/c of cap hit, Wellwood and Rinaldo easily replaced with 0.5m signings if necessary.
-No bonus cushion used


FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Steven Stamkos ($10.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.300m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.500m) / Vernon Fiddler ($1.000m) / Drew Miller ($1.000m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.850m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Ruslan Salei ($1.000m)
/ Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,750,039; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $549,961

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06-27-2011, 09:19 AM
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePiousInfant View Post
Basically, trade Timonen (which hurts, but he is in decline and will be gone within two years anyhow) and Versteeg (meh) for futures. Bury the usual player in the minors/trade them, and don't re-sign Leino. Use some of the cap savings from the trades to sign a good #5 D (up to $2M in salary).

Then offersheet Stamkos for 10@10M.
Ah! You just beat me to the Stamkos 10m posting! I'll take mine though as Timonen has a NMC and is unlikely to go.

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Old
06-27-2011, 09:47 AM
  #573
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Erik Cole ($3.000m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)
Tom Sestito ($0.577m) / / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,078,372; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $221,628
This, with one small change. If Sesito performs well in camp I'd waive Shelly and have Nodl be my 13th forward

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Old
06-27-2011, 11:17 AM
  #574
Damaged Goods
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Originally Posted by Flukeshot View Post
Pure Fantasy on this one:

-Stamkos offersheet 10m per season anywhere between 1 year and 19 years until he's 40, your choice but I'm getting the cap hit way up there.
-Versteeg and Carle traded
-Shelley, Lappy, Leighton... so long and thanks for all the fish.
-RFA's signed: Voracek, Simmonds, Nodl, Powe
-UFA's signed: Fiddler and Miller for the 3rd line, Salei to anchor a pairing with Mesz
-Gus and Bart make the team, Schenn doesn't b/c of cap hit, Wellwood and Rinaldo easily replaced with 0.5m signings if necessary.
-No bonus cushion used

The thing is, I don't think making an offer that Tampa can't match depends on bumping up the cap hit, per se. It depends on escalating the salary so that they cannot re-sign him while maintaining a feasible payroll. Because cap hit and salary are not the same thing, you could send him an offer sheet for a "lifetime" contract that would make him by far the highest-paid player in the league for the next few years while still being able to control the cap hit. You could do this with a very looooooooong contract.

For instance: 12M, 12M, 12M, 10M, 10M, 8M, 8M, 8M, 8M, 8M, 8M, 7M, 6M, 6M, 6M, 5M, 5M, 5M

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06-27-2011, 11:23 AM
  #575
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
The thing is, I don't think making an offer that Tampa can't match depends on bumping up the cap hit, per se. It depends on escalating the salary so that they cannot re-sign him while maintaining a feasible payroll. Because cap hit and salary are not the same thing, you could send him an offer sheet for a "lifetime" contract that would make him by far the highest-paid player in the league for the next few years while still being able to control the cap hit. You could do this with a very looooooooong contract.

For instance: 12M, 12M, 12M, 10M, 10M, 8M, 8M, 8M, 8M, 8M, 8M, 7M, 6M, 6M, 6M, 5M, 5M, 5M
I think the Flyers would then immediately trade him out of reflex.

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