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Old
05-06-2011, 03:29 PM
  #551
Ola
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Kreider must be a sarcastic little ***** or something we don't know about. How he gets misused and ****ed over by every coach is beyond my comprehension.

The must interesting prospect out there right now.
Take it easy, he is in way over his head at this level. In the three periods against Sweden and the two periods he see the ice tonight he provided basically a little less for the US then what for example Sjöström provided for the Rangers in NY.

He is not able to contribute on the forecheck. If you are trying to lock-up a defense of Canada's caliber, his offensive decision making is, well you get what I am talking about.

Why would you use him more?

I wondered how long it took before people would start to trash his attitude like people are trashing Grachev's attitude. Hype a player tremendously, and give that nobody can admit that they are wrong -- there is nothing left then to tear apart the character.

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05-06-2011, 05:33 PM
  #552
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Kreider is NOTHING like Sjostrom.

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05-06-2011, 06:21 PM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Take it easy, he is in way over his head at this level. In the three periods against Sweden and the two periods he see the ice tonight he provided basically a little less for the US then what for example Sjöström provided for the Rangers in NY.

He is not able to contribute on the forecheck. If you are trying to lock-up a defense of Canada's caliber, his offensive decision making is, well you get what I am talking about.

Why would you use him more?

I wondered how long it took before people would start to trash his attitude like people are trashing Grachev's attitude. Hype a player tremendously, and give that nobody can admit that they are wrong -- there is nothing left then to tear apart the character.
I have watched Kreider at BC (I live in Boston), the WJC and now this game in the WC. I watched the entire game and other than the penalty he took on Spezza (which many players would have taken), he wasn't any worse than any other forward not named Stepan, Shannon or Wheeler (who was inconsistent). Kreider used his body several times (engaging Schenn early), made a nice cycle in the first or second period and was defensively responsible. I don't know what game you were watching, not the same as me apparently.

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05-06-2011, 06:23 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
My guess is that coaches don't trust Kreider defensively yet, which may be fair to some extent, but I still take issue with basically benching him so some pretty crappy players could get more icetime.

He's not going to magically get better if you're not giving him icetime...

Fowler also annoys me, he always seems out of position on the blueline and his forwards don't know where he is. His decision making with the puck seems somewhat suspect as well. He's got skills but I've been iffy on his mental and defensive game in this tournament

edit: I also noticed Kreider was roaming perhaps too much...he often ended up over on the right side of the ice when he might have been better served getting open on the left side or covering it on defense. Might need to work on that.
That happened one time where he looked out of position. However the other time he was on the right side of the ice, he was the second man back after a US dman was caught deep. He had to go there.

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05-06-2011, 07:13 PM
  #555
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Any highlights of Stepan's goal? I heard it was a beauty!!!!

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05-06-2011, 07:19 PM
  #556
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I don't have the YouTube of his goal, but Step deserves both a goal and an assist on that one.

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05-06-2011, 07:41 PM
  #557
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Stepan's goal:


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05-06-2011, 11:48 PM
  #558
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See? Great playmaking and then a smart move to get in a good spot. Smart goal.

Stepan's going to be special.

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05-06-2011, 11:55 PM
  #559
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So some of you are just now realizing Stepan is special? Wow... Try 2-3 years ago.

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05-06-2011, 11:59 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
So some of you are just now realizing Stepan is special? Wow... Try 2-3 years ago.
Ripping it up in college is one thing.

Scoring 40 points in a rookie season and ripping it up with adults in the world championships is another thing.

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05-07-2011, 12:14 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Take it easy, he is in way over his head at this level. In the three periods against Sweden and the two periods he see the ice tonight he provided basically a little less for the US then what for example Sjöström provided for the Rangers in NY.

He is not able to contribute on the forecheck. If you are trying to lock-up a defense of Canada's caliber, his offensive decision making is, well you get what I am talking about.

Why would you use him more?

I wondered how long it took before people would start to trash his attitude like people are trashing Grachev's attitude. Hype a player tremendously, and give that nobody can admit that they are wrong -- there is nothing left then to tear apart the character.
There is so much wrong with this post, I don't know where to begin.

First off, the comment on Kreider's attitude was a sarcastic joke. I was implying that there's nothing he can do to get his coaches to give him ice time, no matter how well he does. Therefor, I jokingly said there must be a glaring issue that we would never know about, such as his attitude. I'm assuming english is not your first language, so I can understand the confusion here.

In over his head? If we were drafting the forwards of team USA based on how they've played thus far, Kreider goes 2nd behind Stepan no questions asked. Put him with Stepan and he would explode offensively. Blake Wheeler has done NOTHING, and Craig Smith is somehow getting loads of ice time to, like Wheeler, benefit off a guy who looks like Gretzky on a larger ice surface (I'll give you a hint, his first name is Derek ). If you think Kreider has looked behind, then you haven't watched a single game of this tournament. He had a breakaway and a safe 2 on 1 due to his speed and smarts against Sweden, and he gives defenseman fits along the boards. But once again, Kreider is playing with guys who he doesn't mesh with, and that doesn't make it easy. Palmieri is going to be a good player, and Shannon is decent, but Kreider needs a playmaking center, not a powerforward and a speedy grinder.

The Sjostrom comparison are so piss poor I won't even get into them, just horrible. Freddy was a great defensive 4th liner, Kreider is a solidified top 6 player on this US team.

Grachev can be/was lazy, and he has serious confidence issues. Apples and Oranges. Once again, I'll connect this with language barriers, as the Kreider attitude comments were a joke.

Levitate's post is likely the case, as Kreider sometimes looks a little confused in the defensive zone. The US was tied with a superior team, so it's understandable not putting Kreider on at times.

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05-07-2011, 02:10 AM
  #562
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First of all, Stepan showed his true colors on that goal, the kid is special.

Second, man it would suck for the Slovaks to miss the QF on home ice. That hockey-nation needs some success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
There is so much wrong with this post, I don't know where to begin.

First off, the comment on Kreider's attitude was a sarcastic joke. I was implying that there's nothing he can do to get his coaches to give him ice time, no matter how well he does. Therefor, I jokingly said there must be a glaring issue that we would never know about, such as his attitude. I'm assuming english is not your first language, so I can understand the confusion here.

In over his head? If we were drafting the forwards of team USA based on how they've played thus far, Kreider goes 2nd behind Stepan no questions asked. Put him with Stepan and he would explode offensively. Blake Wheeler has done NOTHING, and Craig Smith is somehow getting loads of ice time to, like Wheeler, benefit off a guy who looks like Gretzky on a larger ice surface (I'll give you a hint, his first name is Derek ). If you think Kreider has looked behind, then you haven't watched a single game of this tournament. He had a breakaway and a safe 2 on 1 due to his speed and smarts against Sweden, and he gives defenseman fits along the boards. But once again, Kreider is playing with guys who he doesn't mesh with, and that doesn't make it easy. Palmieri is going to be a good player, and Shannon is decent, but Kreider needs a playmaking center, not a powerforward and a speedy grinder.

The Sjostrom comparison are so piss poor I won't even get into them, just horrible. Freddy was a great defensive 4th liner, Kreider is a solidified top 6 player on this US team.

Grachev can be/was lazy, and he has serious confidence issues. Apples and Oranges. Once again, I'll connect this with language barriers, as the Kreider attitude comments were a joke.

Levitate's post is likely the case, as Kreider sometimes looks a little confused in the defensive zone. The US was tied with a superior team, so it's understandable not putting Kreider on at times.
Then we agree to disagree. The kid has done all he could for sure, it's just not enough to warrant a lot of ice time at this level.

I actually did not per se compare him to Sjostrom (you know, it was his play at the wch vs Shoes play in the NHL). Big difference actually.

My point is just, do not expexct Kreider to like "lead" HFD.

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Old
05-07-2011, 02:52 AM
  #563
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Why do you keep making the Sjostrom comparison? I don't see it at all.... Different players....

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05-07-2011, 03:37 AM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Kreider is NOTHING like Sjostrom.
yeah.. sjo is an nhler.. kreider is not. big difference

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05-07-2011, 08:20 AM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
First of all, Stepan showed his true colors on that goal, the kid is special.

Second, man it would suck for the Slovaks to miss the QF on home ice. That hockey-nation needs some success.



Then we agree to disagree. The kid has done all he could for sure, it's just not enough to warrant a lot of ice time at this level.

I actually did not per se compare him to Sjostrom (you know, it was his play at the wch vs Shoes play in the NHL). Big difference actually.

My point is just, do not expexct Kreider to like "lead" HFD.
Kreider right now, today, is a better more well rounded player than Stastny and Stapleton, by a significant degree. So what game are you watching where Stapleton and Stastny and even Skille get more TOI? Yet Gordon gives them more ice time in period 3 than Kreider.

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05-07-2011, 08:33 AM
  #566
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
See? Great playmaking and then a smart move to get in a good spot. Smart goal.

Stepan's going to be special.

Hope he works on his skating in the offseason. Sky is the limit for this kid.

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05-07-2011, 08:38 AM
  #567
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Ripping it up in college is one thing.

Scoring 40 points in a rookie season and ripping it up with adults in the world championships is another thing.
When he led the U.S WJC team in scoring on the way to gold, I think thats when I knew.

He has a long way left to go, but he should be a nice NHL player. I think his ceiling is around a Weiss level.

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05-07-2011, 10:53 AM
  #568
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Andy Miele is in the lineup today.

Yesterday Kreider saw the least ice time out of any US forward, have to wonder if Gordon is gonna give him the boot for Miele today...

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05-07-2011, 11:01 AM
  #569
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Andy Miele is in the lineup today.

Yesterday Kreider saw the least ice time out of any US forward, have to wonder if Gordon is gonna give him the boot for Miele today...
Its Fayne that will sit for him.

Kreider averaging 14 minutes a game, considering the large roster sizes I wouldn't say hes getting "fleeced"

Gordon is playing guys like Stastny and Stapleton over him. Smith too, but with the tourney he has been having it becomes hard to argue.

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05-07-2011, 11:02 AM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
Its Fayne that will sit for him.

Kreider averaging 14 minutes a game, considering the large roster sizes I wouldn't say hes getting "fleeced"

Gordon is playing guys like Stastny and Stapleton over him. Smith too, but with the tourney he has been having it becomes hard to argue.
Just saw that, thank god Kreider remains in the lineup.

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05-07-2011, 11:23 AM
  #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Why do you keep making the Sjostrom comparison? I don't see it at all.... Different players....
High draft-picks, highly touted. Sjöström 11th overall, Kreider 19th overall. Both have good size, Sjöström 6'1 218 lbs, Kreider 6'2 205 lbs. Both have phenomenal straight-away speed. Both have good shots, Sjöström's is probably a tad sharper then Kreiders.

Sjöström never put it together and became a world class 4th lineer, avg 3rd lineer.

Kreider have yet to put it together. Is is coming off a very mediocre junior season, 11+13 in 32 games.

If you got a kid that plays a style, and just needs to play that style better, you can hope that he will take the next step. Like looking at Stepan he is not good enough, but all he needs to do is to do what he is right now a tad better. I think he will take that step.

With Kreider I am a bit worried. He will never become more then a 3rd lineer if he doesn't expend his register a lot. You cannot just skate up and down your side, being as predictable as a train on rails... Then you get a Sjöström type of players. Kreider is also not a factor on the forecheck like say Korpikoski/Sjöström were. Thats the reason for why a player with world class attributes in terms of speed et c. cannot even score more then 24 pts in 32 games playing against kids.

A player like Sjöström just went wrong. With his abilities, you should be able to make more of your career. Its like if you take a player like Mike Komisarek, I mean I take a kid 20 y/o with his attributes/abilities any day because odds are that they will not become the same type of screw up as MK.

Kreider should also be able to become a good player in the NHL. I've never compared his potential to what Sjöström is now, never. All I am saying, no coach in the NHL is putting Sjöström on their 1st line. Why would the US coach in the WCH's put Kreider in a top 2 line position? What will he turn into then? I do not know. Like I could see him becoming anything from say a player in the Kunitz mold to say a player in the Kesler mold, or whatever. The kid is young and undeveloped, and can take a bunch of diffrent path's from the point he is right now.

But when reading stuff like "he should sign a NHL contract, at the worst he will tear up the AHL" and such, it's scary. Its just not good for his development. Grachev's extremely doubtful "hype" have hurt him too. All the excuses for Kreider. Coaches are hating him. He is playing after older guys, and, you know, at the college level the coach do not play the best players the most they play the oldest guys the most. Sheit like that. Kreider should probably play another season in college. At the AHL level its unreasonable to expect anything more then like 20+20 from him in a 2nd/3rd line role, with very little/no PP time et c. Which is not good for his development either.

When I am watching Kreider the feeling I am getting is that the kid needs a break, because I do not think he is heading in the right direction. I don't like it. I mean he is getting better every year, he will definitely not become a Hugh Jessiman. Definitely not. He is 10x as good as Hugh J. Kreider is improving every year, when I watch him play I am very impressed with a lot of plays he makes. But you can see how he have it in him to become like very good top 2 line player in the NHL, but he is not even remotely put in a position were he can start to work on his big flaws. Another year in college could be the rescue for this kid, but this org have a way of getting kids to turn pro and in Kreider's case I am afraid that will hurt him.


Last edited by Ola: 05-07-2011 at 11:40 AM.
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05-07-2011, 11:37 AM
  #572
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When is the game today?

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05-07-2011, 12:19 PM
  #573
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Kreider is NOTHING like Sjostrom.
Right. Sjostrom actually plays in the NHL as one poster said.

Difference is at least in juniors Sjostrom put up PPG numbers.

34g, 77p in the WHL.

I think you have too much faith in this kid. He hasn't done anything impressive besides score a few goals worthy of youtube.

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05-07-2011, 12:37 PM
  #574
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Ola,

While I generally agree with your post, I think the AHL is better for Kreider's development than college. I definitely think he can keep up at that level. I, like you, am not sure that he would be a first liner dominanting there (he probably won't), I think he can be a very solid second line LW behind either Grachev or Hagelin. (The other would likely be in the NHL, my guess is that it would be Hagelin.)

He will put up about 20-25=45 in his first season. Nothing spectacular, but very solid.

More importantly, however, he would get to play in more games against higher competition.

I think playing 80 games in the AHL will be more useful to his development than half of that in college.

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05-07-2011, 12:39 PM
  #575
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When is the game today?
Game is on at 2:15 but is being shown on tape delay on Versus at 11.

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