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Roster thoughts for the 2011-2012 Season

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Old
05-07-2011, 04:50 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
The point was Einstein, that YOU COULD HAVE BEEN THE GM at that point in time, and the option never would have been yours.

Do you not know what happened with the Gretzky trade? God himself could have been the GM and he would never have had an option to make that trade.

Glen Sather was the Edmonton GM at the time of the trade, any chance you are gonna tear him to shreds for making that trade? No? Why not? You are saying DL would never have made it....

As far as the Thornton trade, again, you don't know,

DL has a history of no big trades?

Yet, he trades for Selanne, in his prime,

Do you not do any checking up on the crap you write?
Selanne for Shields and Friesen was a blockbuster? Oh wait, I think there was a pick in there too. A 2nd. Ok. I will happily end it on that while everyone else can point and laugh at the fact you put that trade in the blockbuster category. Actually, looking back, that may have been his biggest trade, which says a lot.

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05-07-2011, 05:00 PM
  #427
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Selanne for Shields and Friesen was a blockbuster? Oh wait, I think there was a pick in there too. A 2nd. Ok. I will happily end it on that while everyone else can point and laugh at the fact you put that trade in the blockbuster category. Actually, looking back, that may have been his biggest trade, which says a lot.
LOL wow, really?

Ok,

Before the trade,

1996-97 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 78 51 58 109
1997-98 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 73 52 34 86
1998-99 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 75 47 60 107
1999-00 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 79 33 52 85

So, those are before the trade,

The YEAR OF THE TRADE

2000-01 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 61 26 33 59

Slightly off pace, but nowhere near over the hill as you seem to think.

So, tell me when the last player who has scored 183 goals in 4 seasons was traded,

Ready....go.

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05-07-2011, 07:25 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
LOL wow, really?

Ok,

Before the trade,

1996-97 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 78 51 58 109
1997-98 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 73 52 34 86
1998-99 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 75 47 60 107
1999-00 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 79 33 52 85

So, those are before the trade,

The YEAR OF THE TRADE

2000-01 Anaheim Mighty Ducks NHL 61 26 33 59

Slightly off pace, but nowhere near over the hill as you seem to think.

So, tell me when the last player who has scored 183 goals in 4 seasons was traded,

Ready....go.
Because I said over the hill, right? I called it Lombardi's biggest trade (though not close to a blockbuster) and that implied to you "nowhere near over the hill as you seem to think" Does the s and m in your name stand for straw man? Whether or not it does, you are now StrawManJay or you have a serious reading comprehension issue but I like the former more.

Selanne's production had dropped for 2 straight seasons and the season before his trade, the Ducks sucked. I can't remember his injury situation (groin or knee) the season before the trade but I do recall the trade very well. It was Anaheim shedding salary while they were in the middle of the whole will Disney sell them or not. Dean made a good trade, partly because the Sharks were suffering on the offensive side of the puck and needed some scoring. Coincidentally, it didn't help much.

Anything else you would like to imply that I did not write, StrawManJay?

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05-07-2011, 07:43 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
Because I said over the hill, right? I called it Lombardi's biggest trade (though not close to a blockbuster) and that implied to you "nowhere near over the hill as you seem to think" Does the s and m in your name stand for straw man? Whether or not it does, you are now StrawManJay or you have a serious reading comprehension issue but I like the former more.

Selanne's production had dropped for 2 straight seasons and the season before his trade, the Ducks sucked. I can't remember his injury situation (groin or knee) the season before the trade but I do recall the trade very well. It was Anaheim shedding salary while they were in the middle of the whole will Disney sell them or not. Dean made a good trade, partly because the Sharks were suffering on the offensive side of the puck and needed some scoring. Coincidentally, it didn't help much.

Anything else you would like to imply that I did not write, StrawManJay?
Wait,

So, because Anaheim was shedding salary, it wasn't a block buster? Is that what you are trying to imply?

So then, the Thornton trade wasn't a blockbuster right?

Thornton had less impressive stats when he was traded, yet that's a block buster to you, or did you just bring it up to try and make a point that wasn't there?

Selanne's production dropped two seasons straight??

You sure about that? Goal production, point production, what production dropped 2 seasons straight?

51 goals, 52 goals, 47 goals, 33 goals, yes, his goal production dropped.

109 points, 86 points, 107 points, 85 points, no, his point production didn't drop,

So let's say his goal production dropped, two seasons straight, he was still an all-star player in his prime, and yet for some reason that isn't a block buster deal to you, yet the Thornton deal, who had less stats, is....

Why?

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05-07-2011, 11:06 PM
  #430
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No way DL has the balls to make a move for Parise. Bernier, Schenn, a 1st would probably do it (assuming Parise is healthy and recovered from his "whoa boy" knee injury and assuming we have him locked up) but that's just not Dean's style. DL would have never made the Joe Thornton trade if he was in San Jose at the time. He would not have made the Gretzky trade. He is not a blockbuster guy. Low to mid cost, low to mid risk. That's our GM. I have accepted that from him and hence I look for no major help coming in from the outside.
Only way that gets it done is if Zach demanded a trade, thus forcing Lou's hand. That scenario is obviously highly unlikely.

So, realistically, if we get Parise, NJ is getting one of Johnson/Doughty. They need a defenseman they can build around.

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05-08-2011, 12:20 AM
  #431
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Only way that gets it done is if Zach demanded a trade, thus forcing Lou's hand. That scenario is obviously highly unlikely.

So, realistically, if we get Parise, NJ is getting one of Johnson/Doughty. They need a defenseman they can build around.
I thought their goaltending issue was more critical but you raise an interesting point with D. Don't they have a decent top 3 though? You don't think so?

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05-08-2011, 12:52 AM
  #432
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Yeah they probably want a young up and coming goaltender with the potential to succeed Brodeur, but there's lots of options out there for that. Young cornerstone defenseman are much harder to come by, and they don't have anyone with the upside of Johnson/Doughty. From what I can tell, they sorely lack a PMD.

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05-08-2011, 12:59 AM
  #433
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Also, I'd be willing to move Quick if could we sign one of Vokoun/Bryzgalov.

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05-08-2011, 01:13 AM
  #434
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Also, I'd be willing to move Quick if could we sign one of Vokoun/Bryzgalov.
I stopped taking you seriously right about here. There is no way Quick will be moved, ever. It's Bernier that could become expendable. Why would we trade Quick when he's further developed than Bernier and has two years of playoff experience? It makes no sense.

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05-08-2011, 01:47 AM
  #435
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Also, I'd be willing to move Quick if could we sign one of Vokoun/Bryzgalov.
Bernier will get traded before Quick.

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05-08-2011, 01:53 AM
  #436
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wow, this is some big time deja vu here.

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05-08-2011, 01:55 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Bernier will get traded before Quick.
Great. Then anytime Quick lets in a goal, people are gonna say, we traded the wrong goalie. The debate will never end between these two. Oh well, it's our style anyway.

I'd like to see both retained but I have a feeling with our pipeline of goalies, one of them will go for an upgrade in the forward position.


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05-08-2011, 02:00 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Bernier will get traded before Quick.
i dont know about that, Dean drafted Bernier not Quick. And we all know how Dean hordes his picks.....

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05-08-2011, 03:57 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
i dont know about that, Dean drafted Bernier not Quick. And we all know how Dean hordes his picks.....
So much so that he kept Colten Teubert....oh...wait...

So much so that he kept his 2011 1st round pic...oh...whoops again...

It's like you guys post the first thing that comes to mind without thinking sometimes...

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05-08-2011, 04:25 AM
  #440
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So much so that he kept Colten Teubert....oh...wait...

So much so that he kept his 2011 1st round pic...oh...whoops again...

It's like you guys post the first thing that comes to mind without thinking sometimes...
one trade doesnt change his colors, he even said he was reluctant about the trade and that it was a GIFT for their recent play. Who the **** talks like that.....

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05-08-2011, 05:39 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
one trade doesnt change his colors, he even said he was reluctant about the trade and that it was a GIFT for their recent play. Who the **** talks like that.....
LOL wow,

So, you say DL hordes his picks, I show you a trade where he trades two of them in one deal, and you say it doesn't change his colors, that he was reluctant?

I highly doubt he was reluctant, as far as it being a "gift" way to take things out of context, do you only read what you want to read?

He said the players had to work out their problems before he would step in and make a deal, they worked it out, he kept his word, but hey, I guess that doesn't play into your hate scheme does it....

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05-08-2011, 09:06 AM
  #442
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Also, I'd be willing to move Quick if could we sign one of Vokoun/Bryzgalov.
why? we'd be adding an additional 3+mill in salary just for a slight upgrade?

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05-08-2011, 09:18 AM
  #443
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why? we'd be adding an additional 3+mill in salary just for a slight upgrade?
depending on what we get back for Quick of course.

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05-08-2011, 09:21 AM
  #444
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LOL wow,

So, you say DL hordes his picks, I show you a trade where he trades two of them in one deal, and you say it doesn't change his colors, that he was reluctant?

I highly doubt he was reluctant, as far as it being a "gift" way to take things out of context, do you only read what you want to read?

He said the players had to work out their problems before he would step in and make a deal, they worked it out, he kept his word, but hey, I guess that doesn't play into your hate scheme does it....
horde maybe a bit hyperbolic, but DL is a conservative GM that's in love with his own picks. hell he even signs and trades for his old players from SJ. As far as the gift quote i believe those were his exact words.

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05-08-2011, 09:31 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
So much so that he kept Colten Teubert....oh...wait...

So much so that he kept his 2011 1st round pic...oh...whoops again...

It's like you guys post the first thing that comes to mind without thinking sometimes...
I think Dean gave Teubert the opportunity. It just the case that the guy wasn't working out. And frankly i think he got lots of value for Teubert and 1st in a not so deep draft...even though Penner hasn't really pan out as planned. On the other hand he was fairly quick to let go of guys like Purcell and Boyle for pretty much very little in return

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05-08-2011, 09:48 AM
  #446
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I would still trade Quick before, Bernier. Bernier's game is still cleaner and more fundamentally sound.

Yes, Bernier in a reduced role took a tiny step back this season and more importantly, Quick had a great year. But that doesn't mean that the Bernier we saw in a stretch of games in 2010 isn't still there. He just needs to play on a regular basis. So, you fickle fans, get ready to jump aboard the Bernier express because I assure you, many of you that changed your minds from Bernier to Quick will undoubtedly change your minds again.

The only thing that Quick has on Bernier is experience.

Besides, couldn't we get more for trading Quick than Bernier?

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05-08-2011, 10:09 AM
  #447
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
horde maybe a bit hyperbolic, but DL is a conservative GM that's in love with his own picks. hell he even signs and trades for his old players from SJ. As far as the gift quote i believe those were his exact words.
Agreed. I would further that to say he should be conservative on his picks. A bad trade can really set a team pick if picks are involved. He's had the organization put a lot of time into developing them and scouting etc. Some GMs trade to make noise and draw attention. DL's closer to the vest. It's most certainly his style. I think we take a lot for granted with Doughty's development. Some picks won't be ready for awhile and DL is a bargain shopper. While he's not had much success in getting the big name trades he's wanted, that's okay. We have a good pool and we'll get better every year. Once we shed some of our veterans LA can continue to bring up some of the youngsters. This will be a good team for years to come. SJ is walking all over Detroit, save the last game and these kids are doing well, although not completely cohesive yet.

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05-08-2011, 11:53 AM
  #448
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Lot's of overreaction to my Quick comment.

I don't want to trade Quick, and I'm not saying he should be moved before Bernier.

It just depends on what team you're trying to make a deal with. If it's Philly, they'd probably have more interest in Quick, if it's New Jersey they probably have more interest Bernier. You don't trade either goalie unless you can get a hefty return, AND get an adequate replacement goalie. Vokoun/Bryz would be an adequate replacement for Quick, if you can't sign one of those two, you don't trade Quick.

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05-08-2011, 12:21 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
horde maybe a bit hyperbolic, but DL is a conservative GM that's in love with his own picks. hell he even signs and trades for his old players from SJ. As far as the gift quote i believe those were his exact words.
Somebody already beat me to it, but you want a conservative GM in there in regards to trading picks, do you really want a Mike Milbury up there? He would have traded Kopitar, Quick, Bernier, Brown, Doughty, and Johnson by now, and he would have an Alex Semin to show for them all...

As far as the quote, you can take an exact quote out of context still, doesn't change the point I was making.

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05-08-2011, 12:23 PM
  #450
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A trade with Philly would make sense assets wise as they are flush with offense and we have a strong goaltending pipeline, but the battle between Quick and Bernier isn't over, and Lombardi made developing that position the #1 priority when he first came here. I think he would rather drive the assets into the ground and go down with the ship than get rid of a goaltender right now just because.

Bernier started off shaky as a backup and then toward the end of the year he really turned it on and started looking like the Bernier from the AHL last year. Quick played terrific for us, sometimes lights out, and sometimes not so great, but that, of course, happens to all goaltenders especially ones playing most of the time. The battle just isn't over. Quick has a strong grip on the spot, but it is still anyone's ballgame. It only takes one bad month by Quick and one lights-out month by Bernier and suddenly the tables have turned. This is a decision he can't afford to be wrong on, we must take the better of the two. Honestly, did Lombardi make the right decision in San Jose? Kipper is still playing extremely well with Calgary, and where is Nabokov? ... Let's wait and see.

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