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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
04-26-2011, 05:26 PM
  #76
nick942
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i would love Richards on Toronto, but the fact is that the leafs would have to overpay to get him and we would just end up in the same situation were always in, of mortgaging our future for an immediate solution.

Leafs Say No

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Old
04-26-2011, 06:31 PM
  #77
dredeye
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Originally Posted by TMLsince95 View Post
I can guarantee that this is a thread that I'm going to come back to in years and laugh at you guys for laughing at the OP.
And if Kadri ends up exactly what guys are saying he'll turn out to be and the draft picks amount to nothing special or anything at all will you do the same and laugh at the op? Really this is a garbage proposal with zero incentive for Philly. A cup contender doesn't usually trade it's best player for prospects unless they have serious cap issues which they don't

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Old
04-26-2011, 10:59 PM
  #78
johnnyutah
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
And if Kadri ends up exactly what guys are saying he'll turn out to be and the draft picks amount to nothing special or anything at all will you do the same and laugh at the op? Really this is a garbage proposal with zero incentive for Philly. A cup contender doesn't usually trade it's best player for prospects unless they have serious cap issues which they don't
your best player is claude giroux, you may not know it yet but you'll know it by the end of next season

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Old
04-27-2011, 02:42 AM
  #79
GeneralSwell
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
So whats your point? That anything is possible? Lol.

Whats the point of the draft then?
My point simply was that I hate when people try and label prospects with "ceilings." That's all.

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Old
04-27-2011, 03:22 AM
  #80
Dr Danglefest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyutah View Post
Leafs: Mike Richards

Flyers: Nazem Kadri, Keith Aulie, Bos 1st, Leafs 2nd, cap space


Please don't yell at me flyers fans I know he's your captain and pretty much untouchable but this is a really nice package. I think Richards would be a great long term number one center for the leafs.
My immediate reaction was HELL THE **** NO!...

then i read the rest of your post and my response was only reinforced. did you really think this one through? he's the heart and soul of the flyers, is one of the the most underrated players in the NHL, has been called one of the best captains in the NHL and you give this half ass offer? WOW...

think what it would have taken to draw sundin outta TOR in his hay-day and then carry on

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Old
04-27-2011, 05:26 AM
  #81
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You need a couple more bad-decent prospects, and a few more intangebles.

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Old
04-27-2011, 05:49 AM
  #82
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I don't really get where the idea that centers who would play with Kessel and Lupul would have their point totals go up. Everything I see of Kessel (slight tunnel vision, likes to both carry the puck and shoot it) makes me think a center playing with him will at best have the same production. Probably a slight reduction.

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Old
04-27-2011, 11:21 AM
  #83
phlocky
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Originally Posted by Canuck14 View Post
My point simply was that I hate when people try and label prospects with "ceilings." That's all.

Hate it or not, PROFESSIONAL scouts do the exact same thing. It's their job. Most of the time they are pretty accurate. Sometimes players exceed expectations, but EXPECTING players to exceed the expectations of what the pro scouts predict is just silly especially when trying to pass that player off to another team and getting them them to take that play based upon him far exceeding the expectations of both what the pros predict and what he's actually shown in the way of growth at this point of his career.

MAB, a defensive prospect in the Flyers orginazation is predicted to have a ceiling of a 2nd pairing dman in the NHL, he COULD develope into a top pairing dman and PP QB. Does that mean he's worth a top 5 draft pick right now???? Certainly not, but that's basically what you are trying to do with your "exceeding expectations" argument.

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Old
04-27-2011, 11:37 AM
  #84
GeneralSwell
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Hate it or not, PROFESSIONAL scouts do the exact same thing. It's their job. Most of the time they are pretty accurate. Sometimes players exceed expectations, but EXPECTING players to exceed the expectations of what the pro scouts predict is just silly especially when trying to pass that player off to another team and getting them them to take that play based upon him far exceeding the expectations of both what the pros predict and what he's actually shown in the way of growth at this point of his career.

MAB, a defensive prospect in the Flyers orginazation is predicted to have a ceiling of a 2nd pairing dman in the NHL, he COULD develope into a top pairing dman and PP QB. Does that mean he's worth a top 5 draft pick right now???? Certainly not, but that's basically what you are trying to do with your "exceeding expectations" argument.
The very first thing i said was that I wouldn't accept the trade from a Flyers POV. I am in no means saying Kadri's potential is worth an established player of Richards' ilk. It just bugs me when some people on here act like they have a crystal ball.

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Old
04-27-2011, 11:48 AM
  #85
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck14 View Post
My point simply was that I hate when people try and label prospects with "ceilings." That's all.
Ceilings are how prospects are measured, its why they are drafted ahead of other players. Why did Nazem Kadri get drafted ahead of Jordan Caron? Because he has more potential/higher ceiling. Why did Tavares get drafted ahead of Nazem Kadri? Because he has more potential/higher ceiling.

When you're so young this "ceiling" is all scouts have to label you. Teams want to attain prospects because they believe they have a high "ceiling."

Yes, it is POSSIBLE Kadri equals or surpasses Richards, but wouldnt u think if Kadri had a great chance of surpassing Richards that the SIX other teams would have taken him before? Chances are, the majority of people dont think he'll be better than Richards, all I'm saying.

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04-27-2011, 11:49 AM
  #86
Mansfield
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This trade makes zero sense for either team.

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04-27-2011, 11:53 AM
  #87
GeneralSwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Ceilings are how prospects are measured, its why they are drafted ahead of other players. Why did Nazem Kadri get drafted ahead of Jordan Caron? Because he has more potential/higher ceiling. Why did Tavares get drafted ahead of Nazem Kadri? Because he has more potential/higher ceiling.

When you're so young this "ceiling" is all scouts have to label you. Teams want to attain prospects because they believe they have a high "ceiling."

Yes, it is POSSIBLE Kadri equals or surpasses Richards, but wouldnt u think if Kadri had a great chance of surpassing Richards that the SIX other teams would have taken him before? Chances are, the majority of people dont think he'll be better than Richards, all I'm saying.
True enough, I see where you are coming from. I think its the absolute ceiling that rubbed me the wrong way. But I agree with what you are saying.

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Old
04-27-2011, 11:56 AM
  #88
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Flyers laugh and hang up

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Old
04-27-2011, 11:57 AM
  #89
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Absolutely terrible proposal. Flyers getting completely hosed.

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Old
04-27-2011, 01:24 PM
  #90
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Guys I don't see what is wrong with this package. Kadri is more valuable than Mike Richards because he was drafted higher and is younger, the draft picks are more valuable than any NHL player could ever hope to be, and Aulie is a top-tier player because he's a Leaf. If anything, Philadelphia needs to add.

...

Quote:
Originally Posted by longsuffering View Post
Saying Kadri has low value, Aulie doesn't hit is unfair as well, but based on production he is a 2nd line centre, his intangibles are what make him a top tier defensive player and leader, he was not a top line centre as an Olympian or as junior gold medalist. He is 26 with 6 years in the league, I agree his value is high and is a non movable part for the flyers, but to quote Dennis green, you wanna crown his ass, crown his ass, my point being, I would have him on the leafs in a heart beat, but I would not throw my future at him, there are a lot of other players I would chose before him.
That miserable scrub Mike Richards, not able to beat out Sidney Crosby to act as top line center for Team Canada at the Olympics. What a bum!

...

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Old
04-27-2011, 01:27 PM
  #91
phlocky
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Originally Posted by Canuck14 View Post
True enough, I see where you are coming from. I think its the absolute ceiling that rubbed me the wrong way. But I agree with what you are saying.
"Absolute ceilings" are just plain stupid. ANYBODY can move above and beyond what someone else thinks their max potential is. The one thing that they CAN'T measure is someones heart. You could have an Alexander Daigle who has all the talent but no heart and is a bust and a skinny kid who never played football until high school, was said by the "experts" to not have the size, footspeed, arm strength, pocket presence, or ability to read defenses to make it in the NHL yet he goes on to win 3 super bowls and goes by the name of Tom Brady. Just be around any handy capped child for any length of time and you will see some amazing things from that child that the doctors said they would never achieve. "Absolute ceilings" are wrong, "likely ceilings" are very realistic.

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Old
04-27-2011, 01:33 PM
  #92
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
"Absolute ceilings" are just plain stupid. ANYBODY can move above and beyond what someone else thinks their max potential is. The one thing that they CAN'T measure is someones heart. You could have an Alexander Daigle who has all the talent but no heart and is a bust and a skinny kid who never played football until high school, was said by the "experts" to not have the size, footspeed, arm strength, pocket presence, or ability to read defenses to make it in the NHL yet he goes on to win 3 super bowls and goes by the name of Tom Brady. Just be around any handy capped child for any length of time and you will see some amazing things from that child that the doctors said they would never achieve. "Absolute ceilings" are wrong, "likely ceilings" are very realistic.
I have a ton of heart, does that mean I'm gonna be as good as Gretzky?

I guess we have different interpretations of absolute ceilings. Mine is more realistic and yours is more "anything is possible." Both are legitimate obviously. Its theoretically possible I could be as good if not better than Gretzky, but I'm realisitic in the fact that I sure as hell will not be

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Old
04-27-2011, 01:34 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
I will give you 5 Toyotas for your 1 BMW.
Thank you.. this encapsulates virtually 90% of the Leaf-related trades on here.

For the record, I wouldn't do this from a Leaf perspective. Remember the last time we traded future assets for a current star? That didn't go so well.

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