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Gragnani's role next year and beyond

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Old
07-05-2011, 10:33 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Doubt it. He is better than Sekera. From what I seen in Grags, I would rate him the 4th best defender on this team. His positioning and offensive production was just stellar.
Gragnani is in no way shape or form better than Sekera defensively. Offensively yes, but Sekera is miles ahead of Gragnani when it comes to his own end.

Grags may be OK defending the rush, but he gets hemmed in far too much.

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07-05-2011, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Looks like Grags will be the #7 going into the season. I assume he'll be used when the PP needs a spark, and/or when players are injured or slumping.
That's exactly how I see it playing out too, barring some disaster in the Sekera negotiations.

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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Doubt it. He is better than Sekera. From what I seen in Grags, I would rate him the 4th best defender on this team. His positioning and offensive production was just stellar.


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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Gragnani is in no way shape or form better than Sekera defensively. Offensively yes, but Sekera is miles ahead of Gragnani when it comes to his own end.

Grags may be OK defending the rush, but he gets hemmed in far too much.

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07-05-2011, 10:45 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Doubt it. He is better than Sekera. From what I seen in Grags, I would rate him the 4th best defender on this team. His positioning and offensive production was just stellar.
Assuming you have Myers, Regehr, and Ehrhoff as the top 3, you think MAG is better than Leopold and Sekera already? I think you're selling those two a little short. Grags had a great playoff, but he's still got more to prove.

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07-05-2011, 10:50 PM
  #54
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Topic of Sekera vs. Gragnani ...

Lovedaswords - 1

Blofan4life - 0



Sooooo not watching the games

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07-05-2011, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
Gragnani is in no way shape or form better than Sekera defensively. Offensively yes, but Sekera is miles ahead of Gragnani when it comes to his own end.

Grags may be OK defending the rush, but he gets hemmed in far too much.
That is just not true sorry. Sekera just gives away the puck left and right and has no idea about where to take the body. Grags positioning was just excellent. There were a couple 2 on 1's that he had to defend and he did it perfectly. He knows what to do in front of the net and he was just so well coached. I know some of you might not notice things but I do. Grags has really improved this past year in the AHL and he is better than Sekera and Leopold. He will make this team and be 4th on the team in ice time next year.

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07-05-2011, 11:12 PM
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Lindy also agrees with me...

Playoff Ice Time:

Grags: 21:53 per game
Leopold: 20:57
Sekera: 16:18

Even just on ES ice time Grags had over 2:00 per game more.

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07-05-2011, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Lindy also agrees with me...

Playoff Ice Time:

Grags: 21:53 per game
Leopold: 20:57
Sekera: 16:18

Even just on ES ice time Grags had over 2:00 per game more.
So your argument is that because Gragnani had more ice time than an injured Sekera and an injured Leopold, that means he was better?

A healthy Leopold/Sekera would have played more ice time. Hell, Sekera only played 11 mins in his first game back--and that's not a knock against him, it's because he came back early--if it was the regular season he wouldn't have been playing.

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07-05-2011, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
That is just not true sorry. Sekera just gives away the puck left and right and has no idea about where to take the body. Grags positioning was just excellent. There were a couple 2 on 1's that he had to defend and he did it perfectly. He knows what to do in front of the net and he was just so well coached. I know some of you might not notice things but I do. Grags has really improved this past year in the AHL and he is better than Sekera and Leopold. He will make this team and be 4th on the team in ice time next year.
Your "absolutes" about Gragnani makes your points weak. I respect your opinion, albeit not based entirely in fact. Emotion clouds objectivity. Be prepared to eat your words. I will not assume anything so if I am wrong please correct me.

You think this coming season Gragnani will play in the top 4. OR just in ice time? OR both?

Gragnani will be the 7th, floating to the 6th with injuries or poor play by 1 of the other 6. I am guessing here, not giving "absolutes".

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07-05-2011, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 71Zamboni View Post
Your "absolutes" about Gragnani makes your points weak. I respect your opinion, albeit not based entirely in fact. Emotion clouds objectivity. Be prepared to eat your words. I will not assume anything so if I am wrong please correct me.

You think this coming season Gragnani will play in the top 4. OR just in ice time? OR both?

Gragnani will be the 7th, floating to the 6th with injuries or poor play by 1 of the other 6. I am guessing here, not giving "absolutes".
He will have top 4 ice time. We really won't have a true top 4 because we have more offensive defenseman that defensive guys.

You keep thinking he is the 7th D man. You don't take the leading point getter from our 1st series and sit him coming into the next year. You don't take a guy who averaged almost 22 mins while still staying even and sit him. He proved when it mattered most, he stepped up. He is better than Sekera and is at Leopold's level but the difference in Leopold will start to decline while Grags will continue to get better.

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07-05-2011, 11:31 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Lindy also agrees with me...

Playoff Ice Time:

Grags: 21:53 per game
Leopold: 20:57
Sekera: 16:18

Even just on ES ice time Grags had over 2:00 per game more.
Very disingenuous stat. Sekera was limited because of injury and only played two games.

Sekera:
Game 2: 11:15 TOI, 22 shifts, 1:00 PP time, 8:35 ES Time
Game 7: 21:21 TOI, 35 shifts, 0:19 PP time, 21:03 ES Time

Gragnani:
Game 2: 17:26 TOI, 28 shifts, 6:49 PP time, 10:10 ES Time
Game 7: 23:46 TOI, 34 shifts, 4:43 PP time, 18:53 ES Time

To think that Gragnani is better than Sekera based on 22 career NHL games compared to the 241 games played by Sekera is pretty short-sighted.

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07-05-2011, 11:37 PM
  #61
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And short sightedness is the weakest link in the argument or opinion of Gragnani being superior to Sekera and equal to Leopold.

It's very funny actually

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07-05-2011, 11:40 PM
  #62
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I have to give Ron Barr props for calling for the Regehr trade back in April.

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07-05-2011, 11:45 PM
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Here is him defending a 2 on 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvlbT-MhbdU#t=02m55s

Also a write up on him.

http://www.diebytheblade.com/2011/5/...11-report-card

EDIT: Actually watch that whole highlight and see what a train wreck Sekera is.


Last edited by BloFan4Life: 07-05-2011 at 11:51 PM.
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07-05-2011, 11:52 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
That is just not true sorry. Sekera just gives away the puck left and right and has no idea about where to take the body. Grags positioning was just excellent. There were a couple 2 on 1's that he had to defend and he did it perfectly. He knows what to do in front of the net and he was just so well coached. I know some of you might not notice things but I do. Grags has really improved this past year in the AHL and he is better than Sekera and Leopold. He will make this team and be 4th on the team in ice time next year.
that's going to go over well. Defense is more than just 2 on 1's and "knowing what to do in front of the net". As the Philly series went on, Grags found himself hemmed into his own zone more and more. That's not a serious knock on him - it's something I would expect from a rookie with 15 total NHL games experience going into the playoffs - but his defensive game still is a work in progress. Sekera and Leopold are both clearly better than him in that facet right now.

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07-05-2011, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
that's going to go over well. Defense is more than just 2 on 1's and "knowing what to do in front of the net". As the Philly series went on, Grags found himself hemmed into his own zone more and more. That's not a serious knock on him - it's something I would expect from a rookie with 15 total NHL games experience going into the playoffs - but his defensive game still is a work in progress. Sekera and Leopold are both clearly better than him in that facet right now.
Prove that he was hemmed in his own zone more as the series went on. That Rangers game is one game but you really get a generally idea how clueless Sekera is in the defensive zone. Grags is much calmer with puck and has much better positioning. If you don't see that, then I am sorry.

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07-06-2011, 12:01 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Prove that he was hemmed in his own zone more as the series went on. That Rangers game is one game but you really get a generally idea how clueless Sekera is in the defensive zone. Grags is much calmer with puck and has much better positioning. If you don't see that, then I am sorry.
Sekera has been up and down in his young career. Smart money says that Grags will have good games and bad games as well. That's what young defensemen do. Using one game to show how someone is a train wreck and someone else is awesome is not how things are done. I've been a critic of Sekera's defensive zone play in the past, but for the most part last season he was much improved in his own end - even playing top matchup minutes with Myers for part of the season. Ironically, it was when his offensive game was at his best (and better than Grags has shown as of yet) that his defensive game was at its worse last season.

But, to use your words, I'm sorry if you couldn't see that Gragnani had a bit of trouble as the series went on in terms of clearing the zone. Maybe the rest of us just notice more than you

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07-06-2011, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Prove that he was hemmed in his own zone more as the series went on. That Rangers game is one game but you really get a generally idea how clueless Sekera is in the defensive zone. Grags is much calmer with puck and has much better positioning. If you don't see that, then I am sorry.
I'm sorry we notice some things you don't. Like Gragnani being hemmed in his own end for long stretches of time.

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07-06-2011, 12:52 AM
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ok so the majority feels like sekera is more developed and the conclusion on who is better will be settled in time as these players both should have a future in the NHL. An idea is that if NHL gm's see Sekera as better, like the majority on HF, why dont we groom Grags and use sekera as bait for a temporary #2 or #1 center that every sabres fan is tweaking out over? we are definitely going to dump some cap (Morissonn + Kotalik = 5 mil) or get whatever we can for these guys in trade which isnt much & there just really isn't room for them. Sign Enroth & Grags, now 3-4 mil under cap and we have some wheeling and dealing room.

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07-06-2011, 01:29 AM
  #69
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I think Gragnani should just be given the Norris Trophy right now. He's just so amazing. He's like Housley/Korab/Ramsey/Schoenfeld rolled into one superstar. I just can believe it and after one first round series despite so many years of being unable to make the team. He's a miracle. Praise the lord.
Who knows what the kid can do. Maybe he's a late bloomer and has found it but people need to calm down. This guy is way down our depth chart.

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07-06-2011, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbardown11 View Post
ok so the majority feels like sekera is more developed and the conclusion on who is better will be settled in time as these players both should have a future in the NHL. An idea is that if NHL gm's see Sekera as better, like the majority on HF, why dont we groom Grags and use sekera as bait for a temporary #2 or #1 center that every sabres fan is tweaking out over? we are definitely going to dump some cap (Morissonn + Kotalik = 5 mil) or get whatever we can for these guys in trade which isnt much & there just really isn't room for them. Sign Enroth & Grags, now 3-4 mil under cap and we have some wheeling and dealing room.
I commented on this idea in the defensive pairings thread, but I'm not at all ok with going in with a completely unproven guy as the team's #7. (I'm assuming Morrisson will be waived or traded as per his wish).

If history is any indication, Grags will get upwards of 50 games as the #7, and someone will likely have to come in from the AHL as #8 for more than a handful of games as well. You need more than 6 NHL defensemen in this day and age.

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07-06-2011, 02:32 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
He will have top 4 ice time. We really won't have a true top 4 because we have more offensive defenseman that defensive guys


Were you on vacation the past 2 weeks on some remote island with no phone, TV or internet? Does the name "Robyn Regehr" mean anything to you?

It's mind-boggling that you not only ignore one fact of Regehr being a proven top 2 defenseman but are also seriously underrating Myers' defensive abilities and his merit as a "true top 4" defenseman.

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07-06-2011, 08:16 AM
  #72
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Were you on vacation the past 2 weeks on some remote island with no phone, TV or internet? Does the name "Robyn Regehr" mean anything to you?

It's mind-boggling that you not only ignore one fact of Regehr being a proven top 2 defenseman but are also seriously underrating Myers' defensive abilities and his merit as a "true top 4" defenseman.
Top 4 time? Glad he's not coach. No chance Gragnani gets top 4 time, if he does it means we in big trouble because Regehr Ehrhoff are injured or flamed out.
Add Myers and Leopold and you have your top 4 folks. That's a no brainer. But my guess is Lindy will spread time pretty evenly among 6 unless he's forced to do otherwise.

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07-06-2011, 09:38 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Here is him defending a 2 on 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvlbT-MhbdU#t=02m55s


EDIT: Actually watch that whole highlight and see what a train wreck Sekera is.
sidebar: Enroth was ****ing brilliant that game!

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07-06-2011, 11:05 AM
  #74
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sidebar: Enroth was ****ing brilliant that game!
And Mark Mancari was TERRIBLE.

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07-06-2011, 11:31 AM
  #75
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It will be interesting to see what happens to MAG this year.

I would like to see him in the 5/6 spot and maybe the 1st PP unit as the QB with Ehrhoff's point shot.

But, I could see him in the same 7th D limbo that Patches was in a few years ago if Sekera isn't moved.

Ideal state for MAG would be to move Sekera in a deal for a center, move Morrisonn to clear cap space, and then sign a veteran mentor type guy (think Jeep to the Sabres at the end of his career) to be the #7.

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