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So who takes the left point spot on the 1st PP unit next year?

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Old
04-29-2011, 02:23 AM
  #1
Munchausen
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So who takes the left point spot on the 1st PP unit next year?

Markov / Subban: Two prime candidates who have PP1 worthy skillsets and who would greatly decrease their effectiveness playing right point. Markov has been tried there in the past with mitigated success. His office has always been the left point, where he can cross-ice pass to opposing side snipers or set the right point for one-timers. Subban can't one-time from the right side since he's right-handed. But these are two guys who should be on the 1st PP unit next year. How do you see it play out?

BTW, yes, I'm assuming Markov's back next year, no brainer to me.

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04-29-2011, 05:33 AM
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Subban was reasonably effective on the right point, much like Wisneiwski was in the later part of the season. Meanwhile Markov could be the best left point powerplay player in the world so you keep him there.

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04-29-2011, 07:32 AM
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First unit: Cammlleri - Plekanec - Gionta - Markov - Wiz
Second unit: Pacioretty - Gomez - Eller/Desharnais - Subban - Weber

First sub: Darche

This assuming we pick up no-one new up front.

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04-29-2011, 07:58 AM
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Good question but I think putting either PK or Markov on the 2nd PP is a big no. It'll have to play out next year and see how it goes.

PK's ability to rip it from the left is priority for me... I also expect PK to improve his ability to set guys up on the PP next year, further compensating for Markov playing on the right.

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04-29-2011, 08:24 AM
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All things being equal (meaning we unload the Gomer and sign the Wiz)

Markov/Weber
Subban/The Wiz

Subban & Wisniewski seem to have had good chemistry and Markov can make even me look good on the point.

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04-29-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Subban was reasonably effective on the right point, much like Wisneiwski was in the later part of the season. Meanwhile Markov could be the best left point powerplay player in the world so you keep him there.
I'd say Subban was more than reasonably effective. He scored the most PP goals of all NHL dmen while getting nearly a minute less of PP time/game than all the other ones close to him.

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04-29-2011, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I'd say Subban was more than reasonably effective. He scored the most PP goals of all NHL dmen while getting nearly a minute less of PP time/game than all the other ones close to him.
can you get a break down on each goal, specifically, which side?

The goal against the Hawks and in game 7 were just amazing... imo, when you got a player who can 1 time it like that on the left side, you give him the opportunity.

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04-29-2011, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
First unit: Cammlleri - Plekanec - Gionta - Markov - Wiz
Second unit: Pacioretty - Gomez - Eller/Desharnais - Subban - Weber

First sub: Darche

This assuming we pick up no-one new up front.
Why the hell not. I'd run with this given what we have right now. That's overloading the young guys all on Gomez, but it's only the second wave, and maybe that forces him to keep his legs moving to keep up. Gliding around under some guise of smart, controlled defense (or being a puss-puss - you be the judge) is what plagued Gomez this year, imo, and he looked much better on the occasions when we all noticed that it looked like he kept his feet moving all game.

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04-29-2011, 09:17 AM
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If we don't sign Wiz or at least, don't plan to, we can always trade his rights along maybe with a pick to move up in the draft, and then develop Weber some more and maybe sign a guy like Ehrhoff after.

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04-29-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
First unit: Cammlleri - Plekanec - Gionta - Markov - Wiz
Second unit: Pacioretty - Gomez - Eller/Desharnais - Subban - Weber

First sub: Darche

This assuming we pick up no-one new up front.
And who is going to play on the PK ?

-Subban must now show that he could handle it without a mentor.
Its not going to be a problem, but he will not be mistake-free during the first months. And even if he did a great season, there is a new status now, 2nd season, etc...

-Markov and Gorges are coming out from serious injuries, and may not even be here at the beginning of the season. Not to mention that could be nice, for once, to not rely too much on a specific player, especially when he's just playing with a new knee...

-And...Spacek ? Wisniewski ?

It all comes down to what you want to do with Weber.
Its either him or Wisniewski for me, not both, because we will clearly need a shutdown player.

If we keep the swiss as a regular, we could throw a good offer elsewhere...

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04-29-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
And who is going to play on the PK ?

-Subban must now show that he could handle it without a mentor.
Its not going to be a problem, but he will not be mistake-free during the first months. And even if he did a great season, there is a new status now, 2nd season, etc...

-Markov and Gorges are coming out from serious injuries, and may not even be here at the beginning of the season. Not to mention that could be nice, for once, to not rely too much on a specific player, especially when he's just playing with a new knee...

-And...Spacek ? Wisniewski ?

It all comes down to what you want to do with Weber.
Its either him or Wisniewski for me, not both, because we will clearly need a shutdown player.

If we keep the swiss as a regular, we could throw a good offer elsewhere...

That's my thinking as well, plus if they have a lot of faith in Weber it might be smart to trade Wiz rights to move up in the draft, I guarantee a few teams will be interested. Weber is unproven but Wiz had a great year.

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04-29-2011, 09:51 AM
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MaxPac in front of the net, Cammy on the right side (gearing up for the one-timer from a cross-side pass), Plekanec behind the goal line left or right, Markov left point... left side creating scoring chances from the left... and PK right in the middle at the blue line.

Perfect !

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04-29-2011, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
First unit: Cammlleri - Plekanec - Gionta - Markov - Wiz
Second unit: Pacioretty - Gomez - Eller/Desharnais - Subban - Weber

First sub: Darche

This assuming we pick up no-one new up front.
I like this, although I also like Cammalleri and Subban on the same unit as well. Those two have unbelievable chemistry when it comes to find each other for one-timers.

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04-29-2011, 10:07 AM
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Its been clear to me that the pointmen often change sides during the PP to confuse the PKers, which is why having both Markov and Subban on the same powerplay could be very effective. With Markov on the left, the Pkers would cheat to cammy or subban, and with subban on the left the pkers would cheat to subban. It creates confusion and leaves lanes open that both Markov and Subban can take advantage of.

As for Weber or Wiz, I think the habs can use both. It's not like all 4 PP specialists are bad defensively. Markov and Subban are above average defensively, while lets say Gill and Gorges are Defensive specialists. Definitely manageable ice time.

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04-29-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutabaga View Post
And who is going to play on the PK ?

-Subban must now show that he could handle it without a mentor.
Its not going to be a problem, but he will not be mistake-free during the first months. And even if he did a great season, there is a new status now, 2nd season, etc...

-Markov and Gorges are coming out from serious injuries, and may not even be here at the beginning of the season. Not to mention that could be nice, for once, to not rely too much on a specific player, especially when he's just playing with a new knee...

-And...Spacek ? Wisniewski ?

It all comes down to what you want to do with Weber.
Its either him or Wisniewski for me
, not both, because we will clearly need a shutdown player.

If we keep the swiss as a regular, we could throw a good offer elsewhere...
I feel Wisniewski is going to look for a big salary increase and I'm sure his agent feels like close to 5M is a possibility on the open market. I don't think he'll be worth that, to us or anybody, so my gut feeling is we give it a shot, kick the tires a bit, then soon realize the money will be better invested on an upgrade up front. I honestly don't think you need to overpay a guy like Wisniewski when Subban can play the same role at a fraction of the price.

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04-29-2011, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
Its been clear to me that the pointmen often change sides during the PP to confuse the PKers, which is why having both Markov and Subban on the same powerplay could be very effective. With Markov on the left, the Pkers would cheat to cammy or subban, and with subban on the left the pkers would cheat to subban. It creates confusion and leaves lanes open that both Markov and Subban can take advantage of.

As for Weber or Wiz, I think the habs can use both. It's not like all 4 PP specialists are bad defensively. Markov and Subban are above average defensively, while lets say Gill and Gorges are Defensive specialists. Definitely manageable ice time.
I also feel like there will be a lot of movement on the point between Subban and Markov to take advantage of the strategical advantage of having either one on the left point. Subban certainly can be effective from the right as other posters pointed out, but I feel his full offensive potential is more likely to be reached if one-timing from the left on a regular basis.

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04-29-2011, 11:10 AM
  #17
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I think a rotation is indeed natural. Markov likes to pinch in deep for the backdoor pass at times. Subban could rotate to the top of the circle at the same time opening up two passing lanes and scoring opportunities.

I'd also look to keep Pacioretty on the same unit as Markov. Pacioretty's deadly from the goal mouth, just to the left of the goal. Markov's ability to thread passes through would mesh nicely with Pacioretty, I'd think.

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04-29-2011, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Munchausen View Post
I also feel like there will be a lot of movement on the point between Subban and Markov to take advantage of the strategical advantage of having either one on the left point. Subban certainly can be effective from the right as other posters pointed out, but I feel his full offensive potential is more likely to be reached if one-timing from the left on a regular basis.
Not just the one timer, either. If Subban is going to have the puck on his stick a lot during powerplays, I like having his forehand on the inside of the zone for passing as well. Don't necessarily have to go over sticks/across the front of defenders to make those cross-seam passes.

I still like Markov on the 1st pairing, LHD, as the "best" option (possibly our best player in possibly his most comfortable position), and so I'd make Subban 2nd pairing LHD and create pairings (or let them develop naturally) from there. That also frees up Subban enough to still play with Gorges on the top penalty-kill unit, and that doesn't look bad to me. Basically, I'd look to relieve Markov of some PK duties, and Gorges/Subban seem ideal for the task. Insert whomever into the surrounding spots, net result is that both Markov and Subban should probably end up with about 25 mins/game.

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04-29-2011, 12:29 PM
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People think that Markov was bad when he was on the right side on the pp, but he wasn't the idea was bad, we had Tangy on the left side trying to set up Markov for the one timer, which didn't work well. Markov on the right side shouldn't be a problem setting up Subban, I acatully think its better, that way he can have two opitions, Cammy on the half-wall or Subban on the left side.

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04-29-2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
People think that Markov was bad when he was on the right side on the pp, but he wasn't the idea was bad, we had Tangy on the left side trying to set up Markov for the one timer, which didn't work well. Markov on the right side shouldn't be a problem setting up Subban, I acatully think its better, that way he can have two opitions, Cammy on the half-wall or Subban on the left side.
The problem with Markov on the right side is that he's a lefty. He has to pivot to pass to the left point, leaving the puck easily available for a pick-off at the blue line because the pivot removed his body's protection of the puck.

Ideally, we'd need a righty-righty first pairing and lefty-lefty second pairing; say Subban-Wiz and Markov-lefty triggerman. This way we have a one-timer set-up for both of the pairings with Markov still playing on his preferred left side. I know people will balk at Markov not being on the first pairing, we can call them 1A and 1B if it eases your mind, they each spend a minute out.

Another thing that could work would be playing Markov's pairing in an umbrella formation, with Markov the only point player. He therefore could go for one-timers to his left and right, with Weber at his left and Cammy at his right.

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04-29-2011, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Turtleneck Plek View Post
The problem with Markov on the right side is that he's a lefty. He has to pivot to pass to the left point, leaving the puck easily available for a pick-off at the blue line because the pivot removed his body's protection of the puck.

Ideally, we'd need a righty-righty first pairing and lefty-lefty second pairing; say Subban-Wiz and Markov-lefty triggerman. This way we have a one-timer set-up for both of the pairings with Markov still playing on his preferred left side. I know people will balk at Markov not being on the first pairing, we can call them 1A and 1B if it eases your mind, they each spend a minute out.

Another thing that could work would be playing Markov's pairing in an umbrella formation, with Markov the only point player. He therefore could go for one-timers to his left and right, with Weber at his left and Cammy at his right.
If we were to go with an Umbrella formation with 1 point man only as Markov, I'd put him out there with PK. PK on the left, Cammy on the right, gives you some pretty awesome 1-timer opportunities.

One of the strength of Markov though was his sneaking in during the PP to add an extra open man near the goal, which he can't do in this kind of formation.

I'm sure they'll figure something out though, there's a lot of PP skill in the team, and Subban improved leaps and bounds compared to how he started the season (I remember liking everything about him EXCEPT his PP play... but with Wiz at the end of the season he was just awesome, he learned to use his shot so much better).

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04-29-2011, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Patccmoi View Post
If we were to go with an Umbrella formation with 1 point man only as Markov, I'd put him out there with PK. PK on the left, Cammy on the right, gives you some pretty awesome 1-timer opportunities.

One of the strength of Markov though was his sneaking in during the PP to add an extra open man near the goal, which he can't do in this kind of formation.

I'm sure they'll figure something out though, there's a lot of PP skill in the team, and Subban improved leaps and bounds compared to how he started the season (I remember liking everything about him EXCEPT his PP play... but with Wiz at the end of the season he was just awesome, he learned to use his shot so much better).
two great points I will love to see Markov feeding Subban and Cammy but Markov is so good to score goal in front of the net.

The only thing I want Markov to be able to do it's his cross ice pass for the one timer something he can do in both PP formation

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04-29-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
Its been clear to me that the pointmen often change sides during the PP to confuse the PKers, which is why having both Markov and Subban on the same powerplay could be very effective. With Markov on the left, the Pkers would cheat to cammy or subban, and with subban on the left the pkers would cheat to subban. It creates confusion and leaves lanes open that both Markov and Subban can take advantage of.

As for Weber or Wiz, I think the habs can use both. It's not like all 4 PP specialists are bad defensively. Markov and Subban are above average defensively, while lets say Gill and Gorges are Defensive specialists. Definitely manageable ice time.
This.

I hate when players stay static during a PP. They need to skate all around the O-zone to create space.

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04-29-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Patccmoi View Post
If we were to go with an Umbrella formation with 1 point man only as Markov, I'd put him out there with PK. PK on the left, Cammy on the right, gives you some pretty awesome 1-timer opportunities.

One of the strength of Markov though was his sneaking in during the PP to add an extra open man near the goal, which he can't do in this kind of formation.

I'm sure they'll figure something out though, there's a lot of PP skill in the team, and Subban improved leaps and bounds compared to how he started the season (I remember liking everything about him EXCEPT his PP play... but with Wiz at the end of the season he was just awesome, he learned to use his shot so much better).
I forgot about Markov's backdoor play, shows how long its been since we saw him play.

Anyhow, I didn't put Subban with Markov because I feel the Habs are gonna re-sign both Markov and Wiz so I had to work something out with both of them. Since both Subban and Markov play the left point, I had to find something that would accomodate both of them. At this point, we cannot move Subban because his one-timer is so lethal and Markov on the right point is just wasting his abilities. In an ideal work, we get another left-handed D with a booming shot and get Markov to feed him on the right point while Wiz and Subban keep doing what they did last year.

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04-29-2011, 02:50 PM
  #25
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Most of Subban's PP goals were scored from that same sweet spot that he scored from late in the 3rd of Game 7. He just finds space just before the face-off circle and waits for the pass, winds up and BOOM. I think he stays on the left.

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