HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Offer Sheet Rules?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-29-2011, 02:49 PM
  #1
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Offer Sheet Rules?

I have an interest in player movement, free agency, etc., but not much expertise. What rules/restrictions are there involved with offer sheets? I wouldn't mind seeing us go after a couple RFA centers, particularly Oshie/Berglund, but I don't know how realistic/possible that even is.

CriminallyVu1gar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 03:01 PM
  #2
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 500
The only major stipulation that I am aware of is that the offering team must have the draft picks available if the current team doesn't match, and those draft picks must be their own.

Ex:

Ottawa signs Stafford to a $3m offer sheet. If Buffalo doesn't match, they get a 2nd round pick from Ottawa.

However, Ottawa can't do this unless they still have their own 2nd round pick. If they had a 2nd round pick acquired via trade, that cannot be used as the compensation.

I _think_ that the picks must come in the next two drafts, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

Other than that, there's the 7 day match rule, etc, but I think you already know about those.

SackTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #3
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
The only major stipulation that I am aware of is that the offering team must have the draft picks available if the current team doesn't match, and those draft picks must be their own.

Ex:

Ottawa signs Stafford to a $3m offer sheet. If Buffalo doesn't match, they get a 2nd round pick from Ottawa.

However, Ottawa can't do this unless they still have their own 2nd round pick. If they had a 2nd round pick acquired via trade, that cannot be used as the compensation.

I _think_ that the picks must come in the next two drafts, but I'd have to look it up to be sure.

Other than that, there's the 7 day match rule, etc, but I think you already know about those.
Yeah, knew about the seven day match rule. Seems like a team presenting an offersheet should be able to substitute a better draft pick if they don't have the appropriate one.

CriminallyVu1gar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 03:21 PM
  #4
New Sabres Captain
ForFriendshipDikembe
 
New Sabres Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 38,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
Yeah, knew about the seven day match rule. Seems like a team presenting an offersheet should be able to substitute a better draft pick if they don't have the appropriate one.
The problem with that is remember, free agency takes palce after the draft, which means the picks dome from the following year's draft. And there is no way of knowing whether a pick will be better or worse at that point in time. So if you don't have your pick but you do have some other teams pick when you make the offersheet, you can't say for sure that the one you have is going to be a better pick.

New Sabres Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 03:25 PM
  #5
CriminallyVu1gar
LGBTerrific
 
CriminallyVu1gar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
The problem with that is remember, free agency takes palce after the draft, which means the picks dome from the following year's draft. And there is no way of knowing whether a pick will be better or worse at that point in time. So if you don't have your pick but you do have some other teams pick when you make the offersheet, you can't say for sure that the one you have is going to be a better pick.
Well I meant by round. If memory serves the compensation for a guy in roughly the $4-6M range is a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Seems like a team should be able to say, know what, we don't have the 2nd or 3rd, but we'll give 1, 1, 3, or 1, 2, 2 instead.

CriminallyVu1gar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 03:54 PM
  #6
SackTastic
Embrace The Suck
 
SackTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveDaSwords View Post
So if you don't have your pick but you do have some other teams pick when you make the offersheet, you can't say for sure that the one you have is going to be a better pick.
But you can't do that.

If you put out an offer sheet that would give up a pick, and you don't have that pick, you can't do it. You can't use picks acquired via trade. I don't know what the penalty would be, but I'd guess Central Registry just wouldn't accept it and it would never take effect.

SackTastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 04:01 PM
  #7
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,679
vCash: 500
Awards:
The compensation tiers are based on percentage of the cap used on the contract which is why the numbers change from year to year since the cap has increased each year.

Last off-season's numbers:
Quote:
Amount / Compensation Due

$994,433 or below / None

Over $994,433 to $1,506,716 / 3rd round pick

Over $1,506,716 to $3,013,434 / 2nd round pick

Over $3,013,434 to $4,520,150 / 1st and 3rd round pick

Over $4,520,150 to $6,026,867 / 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick

Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584 / Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick

Over $7,533,584 / Four 1st round picks

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 04:42 PM
  #8
eSabre
Registered User
 
eSabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 6,477
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to eSabre
I say we offer sheet Shea Weber and pay the consequences.

eSabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 04:52 PM
  #9
michaelsaas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eSabre View Post
I say we offer sheet Shea Weber and pay the consequences.
I would imagine they would match it unless it was severe overpayment. And then not only are we overpaying but we would also be losing at least one first round draft pick.

But I'd love him on the team.

michaelsaas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 04:59 PM
  #10
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,426
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsaas View Post
I would imagine they would match it unless it was severe overpayment. And then not only are we overpaying but we would also be losing at least one first round draft pick.

But I'd love him on the team.
To have a chance at stealing him we would likely be in one of the two highest brackets.


Quote:
Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584 / Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick

Over $7,533,584 / Four 1st round picks
I love Shea Weber but with Myers and the group of young dmen we already have. That seems like a ridiculous overpayment for a position where the need for talent isn't as dire as it is at center.


Not to mention drafting to maintain depth is always the smart way to build the underpinnings of a team, particularly in a cap era. Weber isn't that much of a difference maker that he warrants eating up that much money per season AND costing you that many high picks (Either Two 1sts, one 2nd, one 3rd OR Four 1st round picks).


Last edited by joshjull: 04-29-2011 at 05:05 PM.
joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 05:06 PM
  #11
Pengo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,910
vCash: 500
I want Shea Weber too but Nashville will match unless we go above $7.5 or $8m.

Pengo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 05:10 PM
  #12
Megaera
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Weber isn't that much of a difference maker that he warrants eating up that much money per season AND costing you that many high picks (Either Two 1sts, one 2nd, one 3rd OR Four 1st round picks). You could make an arguemnt for him being worth the money but not both
I feel this way about most of the players people suggest giving offer sheets. Unless you're targeting a team that's just incredibly cap-strapped there are two options: 1. That team matches or 2. That team doesn't match because it's a ****** deal and the player isn't worth that much.

I just don't think they're a good tool--maybe for hurting your opponents but not for building a good team.

Megaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2011, 05:47 PM
  #13
eSabre
Registered User
 
eSabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 6,477
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to eSabre
I'd be willing to overpay Weber, even in the $9M+ range per year. Kovalchuk contract territory, to outprice Nashville.

With Weber and Myers on the blueline, and Miller in net, Sabres are Cup contender immediately for next 5-10 years. Watching him in Nashville, guy is just dominant. Would even be worth losing the picks. Sabres offense as it is is much deeper than Nashville's, and look where they are right now.

eSabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2011, 12:37 AM
  #14
iknowphysics
Registered User
 
iknowphysics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 189
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to iknowphysics
Offer sheet Steven Stamkos at $7.6M for six years. If TBL wants to keep him, they'll have to dump depth. If they don't match, we get a franchise center and only give up two 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, and 3rd rounder.

iknowphysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2011, 12:52 AM
  #15
Megaera
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowphysics View Post
Offer sheet Steven Stamkos at $7.6M for six years. If TBL wants to keep him, they'll have to dump depth. If they don't match, we get a franchise center and only give up two 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, and 3rd rounder.
Are you joking? Stamkos has scored over 40 goals and 90 points two years running. They wouldn't hesitate to match that and they already know they're going to have to give him a lot more than the 3.7 million he's making on his entry level contract so I don't imagine it would mess them up. That would just waste everyone's time.

Megaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2011, 08:55 PM
  #16
michaelsaas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 275
vCash: 500
I don't think this would happen either, but I would be much more willing to consider giving up 4 1st for Stamkos than I would for Weber.

I wouldn't even want to give up 2 1sts, a 2nd and 3rd for Weber though.

michaelsaas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-30-2011, 10:16 PM
  #17
Myllz
ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 13,246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowphysics View Post
Offer sheet Steven Stamkos at $7.6M for six years. If TBL wants to keep him, they'll have to dump depth. If they don't match, we get a franchise center and only give up two 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, and 3rd rounder.
Lightning have plenty of cap space, so they'd match it without any hesitation. The only thing that move does is annoy Tampa.

Myllz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 08:50 AM
  #18
CowbellConray
Registered User
 
CowbellConray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,030
vCash: 500
I think that some of you guys are shooting a tad too high with your offer sheets. There is no way we go after Weber of Stammer, as they are the top tier players.

Someone like Dubinsky, or a Berglund would be someone I would maybe push for. 54 points last year, and if the Rangers are trying to get Richards then if we offersheet while they want Richards they may not match.

Something like a 4 year 16 million dollar deal. I know it may be a lot for a 50 point center, but he could fit well into our second line and allow us to still target UFA's of intrest...
Vanek - Roy - Pomminville
Ennis - Dubi - Stafford(if he resigns at 3.75 a year)
Gerbe - Gaustad - Boyes
4th liner - Mccormik - Kaleta

That leaves around 12 million in cap if the cap space goes up 2 million. Then we can work to resign our D and add a piece.

CowbellConray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 10:27 AM
  #19
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,679
vCash: 500
Awards:
Buffalo isn't offer-sheeting anyone. However, they could be a player to acquire guys who are targets from other teams (say Brian Boyle from the Rangers who could be the odd-man out depending on what happens with Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan and of course any UFA targets for the Rangers).

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 10:29 AM
  #20
TehDoak
General Zad
 
TehDoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 18,064
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TehDoak
Quote:
Originally Posted by eSabre View Post
I'd be willing to overpay Weber, even in the $9M+ range per year. Kovalchuk contract territory, to outprice Nashville.

With Weber and Myers on the blueline, and Miller in net, Sabres are Cup contender immediately for next 5-10 years. Watching him in Nashville, guy is just dominant. Would even be worth losing the picks. Sabres offense as it is is much deeper than Nashville's, and look where they are right now.

Both Weber and Myers play the right side.

We still have to re-up Myers. So now you are looking at 14 on two d-men...who aren't playing together. How are you going to get them 25 minutes? Oh, now you need 2 more d-men who play 25 minutes a night. Let's get them through the draft. Oh you just spent your next 4 first rounders.

You need more than just two #1 d-men. The problem with offersheet's is that they eat up a ton of cap space/capital and cost picks as well. The only legit offersheet target out there is Parise, but we already have a top line LW with Vanek.

We need to look for teams who are lacking on depth on the wing and have depth in area's we need help.

TehDoak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 10:37 AM
  #21
TehDoak
General Zad
 
TehDoak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 18,064
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TehDoak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Buffalo isn't offer-sheeting anyone. However, they could be a player to acquire guys who are targets from other teams (say Brian Boyle from the Rangers who could be the odd-man out depending on what happens with Dubinsky, Anisimov, Callahan and of course any UFA targets for the Rangers).
Rangers have 16 million in cap space right now. They can comfortably re-up both Callahan and Dubi before July 1st and make an offer to Richards since you can go 10% over the cap during the summer. Then they can buy out Drury and free up another 3.5 million (actually, i think they free up more than that, they can buy out drury at 2/3rd of 5 million, and that is spread over 2 years)

We already have a big overpaid 3rd line center....unless you want to feed Boyle 2nd line minutes?

TehDoak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 11:24 AM
  #22
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 33,426
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
Rangers have 16 million in cap space right now. They can comfortably re-up both Callahan and Dubi before July 1st and make an offer to Richards since you can go 10% over the cap during the summer. Then they can buy out Drury and free up another 3.5 million (actually, i think they free up more than that, they can buy out drury at 2/3rd of 5 million, and that is spread over 2 years)

We already have a big overpaid 3rd line center....unless you want to feed Boyle 2nd line minutes?

If you're refering to Goose, a 2.3mil cap hit (76th among centers) and 2.5mil salary (67th among centers) are not overpayments for a 3rd line center.

Some argue he isn't worth it because they don't feel he is 3rd line center material. But thats a seperate debate.

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 12:14 PM
  #23
Boose30
Registered User
 
Boose30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: The Colony
Country: United States
Posts: 281
vCash: 500
how about we send an offer for doughty, LA wont have enough money to match an offer sheet for him at around 4.5mil and still retain 8 other players with only 11.5mil available this off season for them

Boose30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 01:00 PM
  #24
ZZamboni
Puttin' on the Foil
 
ZZamboni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,514
vCash: 500
Like Chain said, the Sabres are not offer sheeting ANYONE. Darcy is too ______ (fill in blank) to do that stuff.

So number crunchers ... If we don't bring back Connolly (at current salary), Neids, Grier, Montador and Lalime... How much cap space do the Sabres free up?

ZZamboni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-01-2011, 01:08 PM
  #25
Myllz
ARF ARF ARF ARF ARF
 
Myllz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 13,246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 71Zamboni View Post
Like Chain said, the Sabres are not offer sheeting ANYONE. Darcy is too ______ (fill in blank) to do that stuff.

So number crunchers ... If we don't bring back Connolly (at current salary), Neids, Grier, Montador and Lalime... How much cap space do the Sabres free up?
Has little to do with Darcy. Signing players to offer sheets ultimately does nothing except annoy the team the player is with and their fan base. Not a single person liked Edmonton when they signed Vanek to the offer sheet, including Regier. That kind of thing goes against Pegula's belief of being a first class organization.

Myllz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.