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Old
06-03-2011, 11:27 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
Habs without Jagr? Good! Habs with Jagr? Good! Because in the end, everyone here would rather have Jagr on the two first lines instead of Darche or Moen. If we can get someone better than him, no problem as well.
That's how I feel right now. If the price is reasonable (2 to 3M for 1 year) I'd be willing to give him a try. Nothing longer than one year though, you don't want to be stuck with him if he can't come back to form (I'm not talking a 80 points player, but say 40-50, which is totally fine for 2-3M).

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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
At this point in time Jagr sucks. At the World Championships he was getting pushed off the puck by everyone. He's slow as hell too.
The guy got the best forward of the tournament award and was on the media chosen all-star first line... Ofc this tournament did not have all the top players in the world (still had Ovy and Kovalchuk though), but saying he sucks, got pushed off the puck and was slow as hell...? Did you watch the games or just 1-2 highlights where he got leveled?

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06-03-2011, 11:30 AM
  #902
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It would only ever be a one year deal as well, so its not like it would hurt us long term. Depth never hurts.

But I think are chances are like 10% though, if that.
Especially offensive depth!

Bringing in Jagr and re-signing Kostitsyn gives us three potential scoring lines, rather than just two potential scoring lines. We saw how well Kostitsyn worked with Eller playing against lesser opposition, imagine having Kostitsyn back there while having Jagr playing with Plekanec and Cammalleri rather than Halpern.

A top 9 of

Pacioretty Gomez Gionta
Cammalleri Plekanec Jagr
Kostitsyn Eller Desharnais

is much superior than what we saw last year when we had

Pacioretty Gomez Gionta
Cammaller Plekanec Halpern
Kostitsyn Eller Moen

And The line I put up is assumes the habs don't pick up a good two-way third line winger ala Dupuis, Higgins or Kopecky which would make our line up even better and which the Canadiens definitely have capspace for.

You can never have too much talent in your lineup.

Like I posted a few pages back, getting Jagr isn't a problem because there is no doubt that he would produce at minimum 40 points. The problem that I foresee is people who think he will be a saviour and then when he doesn't put up 90 points or score consistently, they'll get on his case as well as on the case of management.

If you expect Jagr to just be a complimentary player at this point who can put up anywhere from 40-60 points, then it would be a great pick up.

If you expect Jagr to carry the offense then it will be a long year on these boards with all the whiners.

There's absolutely no harm in bringing him in for 1 year. Like you pointed out macavoy, depth never hurts. In fact, depth is what allows teams to win.

Look at how stacked the cup winners (or even the finalist have been over the past few years).

Chicago had 3 scoring lines.
Pittsburgh had 3 incredible centers.
The Red-Wings had incredible depth at D.
The Ducks were stacked, a great top 9(their top 6 was dominant : perry Getzlaf penner, Selanne McDonald Kunitz).
The Canes had three scoring lines.


Depth is extremely important, especially talented depth.

The only thing that can go wrong with Jagr is individual expectations on the part of fans and media that may put unecessary pressure on both the player and the team making it a long an annoying year.

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06-03-2011, 11:34 AM
  #903
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Do i have to use my Free Agent tracker device again?

Jaromir Jagr + Montreal= 1.09% chance he will sign here

But dont let thats top you from creating lines with him for next season.

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06-03-2011, 11:35 AM
  #904
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jagr looks good when playing in weaker leagues or tourneys.but the nhl is a different story.has anyone bothered to check out the top 10 scorers in the khl??ha ha ha .i almost fell over.he s washed up an would be much better suited to the k.montreal and its fans would chew him up if things got ugly.an besides eller is younger ,faster an cheaper.

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06-03-2011, 11:45 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
If you want to go after a SC: Monteal, Boston or Los Angeles.
If you want to live in a mecca of hockey: Montreal, Detroit or Boston.
If you want to play with a czech center: Plekanec or Krejci.
If you want a place to live: Montreal, New York or San Francisco.
If you want a casino: Montreal.

It is between Boston and Montreal.

Montreal is the best choice.
Let me get this straight: Boston, home to two of the top universities in the world, as well as countless others that are very good, around which has grown a number of start-up companies, which has fostered a vibrant artistic and culinary community, and borders the ocean, is not a place to live?

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06-03-2011, 12:26 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by haburger View Post
jagr looks good when playing in weaker leagues or tourneys.but the nhl is a different story.has anyone bothered to check out the top 10 scorers in the khl??ha ha ha .i almost fell over.he s washed up an would be much better suited to the k.montreal and its fans would chew him up if things got ugly.an besides eller is younger ,faster an cheaper.
The same KHL/ RSL that had guys like Lecavalier, Richards, Kovalchuk, Ovechkin score well under a PPG during the 2004-05 season?

Jagr has been top 10 in scoring for 3 straight seasons in the KHL and plays the most minutes on his team among forwards.

You clearly show your bias and your hatred towards a player.

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06-03-2011, 12:39 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I could see habs taking him just because it could potentially save us cap space for a guy who has a risk but good reward if he's a fit. Imagine the habs got Kaberle and he played like old Kaberle for us? We'd have a pretty good squad then. I'd rather old Kaberle over current Wiz, but I'd rather current Wiz over current Kaberle. Wiz will most certainly seek more dollars.

EDIT: Mind you, 8a and +7 in 19 games isn't terrible, I just think with a stacked team such as Boston people were expecting more, plus their PP has been pretty abysmal to say the least.
See, here's the problem. We'd be hoping that Kaberle would be a good fit, AND hoping that he'd return to old form. Meanwhile, we already have a guy who brings all the same things, is 5 years younger, is trending upwards in terms of production, AND (most importantly) has already proven to be a good fit in the current lineup (unless 30 points in 40 games doesn't mean anything to anyone). Why risk that the same thing happens to Kaberle here that happened in Boston, when the right guy could already be here? Just doesn't make sense to me. So many trade proposals treating players in a bubble/vacuum without (imo) giving due consideration to the importance of actually working in the construct of a team you join.

Sure the economics might make me change my tune a little bit, but I'm willing to pay significantly more to keep the Wiz than gamble on a declining Kaberle IF those were the only two options on the table and both are looking for multiple years (which they obviously are/would be).


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 06-03-2011 at 12:45 PM.
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06-03-2011, 12:47 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by NCarolinaMtlExpat View Post
Let me get this straight: Boston, home to two of the top universities in the world, as well as countless others that are very good, around which has grown a number of start-up companies, which has fostered a vibrant artistic and culinary community, and borders the ocean, is not a place to live?
I doubt hockey players care about the opportunity to listen in on talks at MIT and Harvard :-)

But you're right his list is small. Boston, and other places, belong on the list.

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06-03-2011, 12:51 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by NCarolinaMtlExpat View Post
Let me get this straight: Boston, home to two of the top universities in the world, as well as countless others that are very good, around which has grown a number of start-up companies, which has fostered a vibrant artistic and culinary community, and borders the ocean, is not a place to live?
I really think you underestimate McGill and the comparison of being a Canadian citizen and going to McGill and being any citizen and attending the universities you speak of.

I know they don't care about that money as it's chump change, but McGill isn't exactly a school I'd laugh at.

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06-03-2011, 12:52 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by NCarolinaMtlExpat View Post
Let me get this straight: Boston, home to two of the top universities in the world, as well as countless others that are very good, around which has grown a number of start-up companies, which has fostered a vibrant artistic and culinary community, and borders the ocean, is not a place to live?
Boston is a boring city man

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06-03-2011, 12:53 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
Boston is a boring city man
Hrm, I've lived here for the past 3 years and it's actually a really nice city and an awesome place to live.

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06-03-2011, 12:55 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
See, here's the problem. We'd be hoping that Kaberle would be a good fit, AND hoping that he'd return to old form. Meanwhile, we already have a guy who brings all the same things, is 5 years younger, is trending upwards in terms of production, AND (most importantly) has already proven to be a good fit in the current lineup (unless 30 points in 40 games doesn't mean anything to anyone). Why risk that the same thing happens to Kaberle here that happened in Boston, when the right guy could already be here? Just doesn't make sense to me. So many trade proposals treating players in a bubble/vacuum without (imo) giving due consideration to the importance of actually working in the construct of a team you join.

Sure the economics might make me change my tune a little bit, but I'm willing to pay significantly more to keep the Wiz than gamble on a declining Kaberle IF those were the only two options on the table and both are looking for multiple years (which they obviously are/would be).
Well they're different players. I'd say Kaberle is better defensively and more of a PMD. Wiz is a great all around D. He has the shot, is physical, playmaking skills as well but not as great defensively.

It would make our team more solid from a defensive perspective. No denying the issues your talking about are real though. But that's how you land a guy who could contribute big time but for cheap. Example of a failed one: Gagne @ Tampa. Example of a successful one: Tanguay @ Calgary.

Both players signed for considerably cheaper because they're previously proven players who had a bumpy road lately. The risk/reward is there and you don't have to overpay for those kinds of guys. Kaberle especially if the Bruins don't win the cup, at least in my eyes anyways should be one of those players. He's only ever played for one team aside from Boston and hasn't impressed in Boston. That isn't to say he wouldn't impress here though. That's why it's a risk/reward scenario and sometimes worth the gamble.

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06-03-2011, 12:55 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Joe Big Bear View Post
1 - HE WAS don't forget it WAS ! For all the respects i have for Jagr and his career, it doens't change that the fact that no NHL teams are willing to sign he disturbing don't you think?

2 - In don't give a crap about how many khl teams. The thing is that unless KHL not even SEL are interested in Jagr.

3 - I gave exemple of ****ed big name in NYR.

4 - Yep, another big name who failed (that's why he didn't re-sign)

5 - I linked Jagr with the fact that people want some Big Name, let's face it if Jagr wasn't named Jagr, nobody would like to bring a 39 years old veteran with 50 points in KHL.

6 - I'd rather make some room for guys like Palushaj or Engqvist.

7 - I posted again
With all due respect, your choice of rebuttal arguments is even worse than your choice of beer.

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06-03-2011, 12:57 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I really think you underestimate McGill and the comparison of being a Canadian citizen and going to McGill and being any citizen and attending the universities you speak of.

I know they don't care about that money as it's chump change, but McGill isn't exactly a school I'd laugh at.
1) Jagr doesn't care about the universities, unless he wants to have sex with college girls.
2) McGill is a great school but it's not on the level of Harvard and MIT ...

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06-03-2011, 12:58 PM
  #915
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1) Jagr doesn't care about the universities, unless he wants to have sex with college girls.
2) McGill is a great school but it's not on the level of Harvard and MIT ...
Never said it was and to clarify I wasn't the one who brought it up. Read what the poster was saying. It's bordering on ridiculous. He's saying Boston is a better place than Montreal because of those very schools.

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06-03-2011, 12:58 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I really think you underestimate McGill and the comparison of being a Canadian citizen and going to McGill and being any citizen and attending the universities you speak of.

I know they don't care about that money as it's chump change, but McGill isn't exactly a school I'd laugh at.
Actually, my comment was not a reflection of McGill. I did my Bachelors' and Ph.D. there, and did my Master's at Ecole Polytechnique. They're both fine schools.

The implication actually was that these top schools manage to attract world-class talent, due in part to the attractiveness of the city. I could also have mentioned arguably the top teaching hospital in the world, Mass General Hospital, which also attracts top clinical talent, based on both its own merits and those of Boston itself.

Moreover, I have no beef with Montreal being on the list, but question a list on quality of life that includes it but specifically not Boston. Struck me as parochial.

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06-03-2011, 01:03 PM
  #917
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Hrm, I've lived here for the past 3 years and it's actually a really nice city and an awesome place to live.
hmm, let me guess, you like brunchs,antiqueing and walking outside?

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06-03-2011, 01:07 PM
  #918
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hmm, let me guess, you like brunchs,antiqueing and walking outside?
For all these arguments between Boston and Montreal fans. both cities are similar.

They are both historical cities that played in an integral role in the foundations of their respective nations and are both Cosmopolitain cities with lots to do.

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06-03-2011, 01:08 PM
  #919
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Well they're different players. I'd say Kaberle is better defensively and more of a PMD. Wiz is a great all around D. He has the shot, is physical, playmaking skills as well but not as great defensively.

It would make our team more solid from a defensive perspective. No denying the issues your talking about are real though. But that's how you land a guy who could contribute big time but for cheap. Example of a failed one: Gagne @ Tampa. Example of a successful one: Tanguay @ Calgary.

Both players signed for considerably cheaper because they're previously proven players who had a bumpy road lately. The risk/reward is there and you don't have to overpay for those kinds of guys. Kaberle especially if the Bruins don't win the cup, at least in my eyes anyways should be one of those players. He's only ever played for one team aside from Boston and hasn't impressed in Boston. That isn't to say he wouldn't impress here though. That's why it's a risk/reward scenario and sometimes worth the gamble.
I agree that they're "different players", but that's not really the focus, as long as either one of them is able to provide what we need: puck movement, a legitimate offensive threat from the back end, cohesive pairings, the ability to log big minutes if need be, and the versatility to be used with different players and in different situations, since our defensive group is going to be undergoing a few changes in the immediate future. Wisniewski seems to fit the bill for those things better than Kaberle, imo. Our defensive system has already proven to extend the shelf life of a guy like Gill, so how is it going to expose whatever difference you see in defensive ability between Wiz and Kaberle (I don't see ANY difference in defensive ability/awareness, btw - the same things people are commenting on about Wisniewski were observed for years with Kaberle in Toronto).

But essentially, I don't subscribe to taking gambles over informed investments. If the money can be found, you make the sound investment instead of running down to the casino to make it big. I don't think anyone would argue with that. And with both guys obviously looking for term contracts, are we willing to gamble on Kaberle between the ages of 33 and 36/37, or invest in Wisniewski from 28 to 32/33? The difference in price fades in importance when I cringe thinking of just how ineffective or "unversatile" (is that even a word?) Kaberle could be by the time he's 34 or 35, let alone 36, 37.

edit: woah, wait. This is the Jagr thread, lol.

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06-03-2011, 01:13 PM
  #920
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Actually, my comment was not a reflection of McGill. I did my Bachelors' and Ph.D. there, and did my Master's at Ecole Polytechnique. They're both fine schools.

The implication actually was that these top schools manage to attract world-class talent, due in part to the attractiveness of the city. I could also have mentioned arguably the top teaching hospital in the world, Mass General Hospital, which also attracts top clinical talent, based on both its own merits and those of Boston itself.

Moreover, I have no beef with Montreal being on the list, but question a list on quality of life that includes it but specifically not Boston. Struck me as parochial.
To be honest I doubt what you're saying is true. What % of players actually have kids that can even go to these schools age wise, less than 1%?

I'm not saying you have a beef with Montreal I just found it funny you would name those schools as if Montreal doesn't have any good schools or something. It's all good though, when you get right down to it though I don't believe those schools are attracting UFA's. Dollars, the fact that Boston is a nice city to begin with, etc. Those are things attracting UFA's imo. (That and a good club)

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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I agree that they're "different players", but that's not really the focus, as long as either one of them is able to provide what we need: puck movement, a legitimate offensive threat from the back end, cohesive pairings, the ability to log big minutes if need be, and the versatility to be used with different players and in different situations, since our defensive group is going to be undergoing a few changes in the immediate future. Wisniewski seems to fit the bill for those things better than Kaberle, imo. Our defensive system has already proven to extend the shelf life of a guy like Gill, so how is it going to expose whatever difference you see in defensive ability between Wiz and Kaberle (I don't see ANY difference in defensive ability/awareness, btw - the same things people are commenting on about Wisniewski were observed for years with Kaberle in Toronto).

But essentially, I don't subscribe to taking gambles over informed investments. If the money can be found, you make the sound investment instead of running down to the casino to make it big. I don't think anyone would argue with that. And with both guys obviously looking for term contracts, are we willing to gamble on Kaberle between the ages of 33 and 36/37, or invest in Wisniewski from 28 to 32/33? The difference in price fades in importance when I cringe thinking of just how ineffective or "unversatile" (is that even a word?) Kaberle could be by the time he's 34 or 35, let alone 36, 37.

edit: woah, wait. This is the Jagr thread, lol.
Yeah wow.

What I mean is if Kaberle can be had for 4mil versus Wiz for 6mil (example, Wiz might want a lot) it'd be more worth it imo to roll the dice on Kaberle, save money and put it towards offense. This is all I'm trying to say, but I agree with you that at the end of the day I like Wiz more. For me it's about the dollars and cents too though.

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06-03-2011, 01:17 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by NCarolinaMtlExpat View Post
Let me get this straight: Boston, home to two of the top universities in the world, as well as countless others that are very good, around which has grown a number of start-up companies, which has fostered a vibrant artistic and culinary community, and borders the ocean, is not a place to live?
You've gotta excuse some of the posters on this site. They've never been outside of Montreal so are susceptible to such nonsense.

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06-03-2011, 01:22 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by NCarolinaMtlExpat View Post
Let me get this straight: Boston, home to two of the top universities in the world, as well as countless others that are very good, around which has grown a number of start-up companies, which has fostered a vibrant artistic and culinary community, and borders the ocean, is not a place to live?
I don't think Jagr is particularly interested in spending a lot of time in the Harvard libraries.

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06-03-2011, 01:23 PM
  #923
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Yeah wow.

What I mean is if Kaberle can be had for 4mil versus Wiz for 6mil (example, Wiz might want a lot) it'd be more worth it imo to roll the dice on Kaberle, save money and put it towards offense. This is all I'm trying to say, but I agree with you that at the end of the day I like Wiz more. For me it's about the dollars and cents too though.
For one year, if money was a huge issue? Maybe. If a long term commitment has to be made? No way. Kaberle isn't even as good, nor as durable, as Hamrlik (and was never as good at his peak as Hamrlik was at his), and look at how quick people are to jump on him (and Spacek) now that we've seen what he(/they) is(/are) playing like at age 36/37. Spacek gets beef for being 3.8 mil right now, imagine Kaberle at 4 mil at the same age... lol. It would be a field day here. To bring this around back on topic, I WOULD consider bringing in Kaberle at 4 instead of Wiz at 6 IF that extra 2 million was used to bring in Jagr.

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06-03-2011, 01:25 PM
  #924
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To be honest I doubt what you're saying is true. What % of players actually have kids that can even go to these schools age wise, less than 1%?

I'm not saying you have a beef with Montreal I just found it funny you would name those schools as if Montreal doesn't have any good schools or something. It's all good though, when you get right down to it though I don't believe those schools are attracting UFA's. Dollars, the fact that Boston is a nice city to begin with, etc. Those are things attracting UFA's imo. (That and a good club)
Please re-read my second paragraph. The point that I am making is that if MIT and Harvard are able to attract world-class academic talent, it is due in part to the attractiveness of the city. These people can literally go anywhere on the planet. Moreover, I would argue that Boston is very good at attracting academic, technical and clinical talent that can go anywhere on the planet and that is not native to the area, more so than Montreal. The players' kids are immaterial to this discussion.

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06-03-2011, 01:34 PM
  #925
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You've gotta excuse some of the posters on this site. They've never been outside of Montreal so are susceptible to such nonsense.
Boston is a beautiful city, but it is no Montreal. I've spent extensive time all over North America and Montreal is hard to compete with.

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Please re-read my second paragraph. The point that I am making is that if MIT and Harvard are able to attract world-class academic talent, it is due in part to the attractiveness of the city. These people can literally go anywhere on the planet. Moreover, I would argue that Boston is very good at attracting academic, technical and clinical talent that can go anywhere on the planet and that is not native to the area, more so than Montreal. The players' kids are immaterial to this discussion.
I think that has more to do with the schools in question than it does with the city of Boston compared to Montreal. People choose MIT because it's MIT not because it's in Boston.

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