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Old
05-11-2011, 11:13 PM
  #651
SolidSnakeUS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
No, I was projecting that Bryzgalov and his agent would be looking for $6 mil at around 5 years, which I have my doubts anyone would pay.
Bryz would probably be 5.5M about, but if we can get Vokoun for 4M or 4.5M for 2 years, I'd rather have that by a large margin.

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05-12-2011, 08:48 AM
  #652
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I don't see any goalie approaching 6 million. The mindset behind signing goalies is a lot different now then it was a few years ago when guys like Backstrom re-signed. I just don't think teams believe in giving that much money to a goalie.

I'd put Bryz' ceiling at 5.5 and Vokoun's at 4.5. If i had to guess right now, I'd say Bryz sign's a 5 year deal for 5.25 and Vokoun signs a 3 year deal at 4.

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05-12-2011, 09:24 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Bryz would probably be 5.5M about, but if we can get Vokoun for 4M or 4.5M for 2 years, I'd rather have that by a large margin.
PHI - Bobrovsky
PIT - Fleury
CGY - Kiprusoff
MIN - Backstrom
BOS - Thomas/Rask
NJD - Brodeur
SJS - Niemi/Niittymaki
CHI - Crawford
WSH - Neuvirth/Varlamov/Holtby
ANA - Hiller
LAK - Quick/Bernier
DET - Howard
VAN - Luongo/Schneider
OTT - Anderson
NYR - Lundqvist
BUF - Miller/Enroth
NSH - Rinne
DAL - Lehtonen
TOR - Reimer/Gustavsson
ATL - Pavelec
TBL - (Roloson)
CLB - S. Mason
EDM - Khabibulin/Dubnyk
MTL - Price
STL - Halak
NYI - Dipietro/Montoya/Poulin/Nabokov
COL - *nobody*
CAR - Ward
PHX - *nobody*
FLA - Clemmensen/Markstrom

There are possibly five teams who are going to want a shot at Bryzgalov and Vokoun assuming Roloson re-signs in Tampa.

2 does not fit into 5 without some people going home empty handed.

I can assure you that the price these goalies are going to go for, unless they specifically sign somewhere they want to go whether it be a home-town discount or for a championship, will be pretty much up to them.

That said, if they don't want to sign for a reasonable price to play on a championship caliber roster, they can go somewhere and miss the playoffs forever. It won't bother me.

I consider anything above 4.50m to be extremely unreasonable.

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05-12-2011, 09:48 AM
  #654
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The Ducks could end up in the race for Bryzgalov or even Vokoun who, for some odd reason, we were rumored in on last year. It all depends on how Hiller does this offseason. His vertigo didn't really show any significant improvement for months, and I suspect if there isn't improvement by July 1st, we'll be quick to go and grab a goalie (unless we end up with Emery again). So I'd put an asterisk by them as well.

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05-12-2011, 11:50 AM
  #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
PHI - Bobrovsky
OTT - Anderson
TBL - (Roloson)
COL - *nobody*
PHX - *nobody*
FLA - Clemmensen/Markstrom

There are possibly five teams who are going to want a shot at Bryzgalov and Vokoun assuming Roloson re-signs in Tampa.

2 does not fit into 5 without some people going home empty handed.
Ottawa won't be going after either. They are in rebuild mode and they just resigned Anderson to a 4 year extension.

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05-12-2011, 11:52 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Ottawa won't be going after either. They are in rebuild mode and they just resigned Anderson to a 4 year extension.
I also don't see Florida throwing big money at a goalie being they just shed an ABSURD amount of money. It seems as if they will be entering full rebuild mode. And Phoenix is such an uncertain situation, I can't see them being able to invest big money in a goalie either.

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05-12-2011, 12:00 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Ottawa won't be going after either. They are in rebuild mode and they just resigned Anderson to a 4 year extension.
yeah and they have Lehner too who looks pretty good. hes one the main reasons Binghamton is in the AHL East Final.

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05-12-2011, 12:08 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Bryz would probably be 5.5M about, but if we can get Vokoun for 4M or 4.5M for 2 years, I'd rather have that by a large margin.
Sounds about right to me, considering Lundqvist at almost 7M and Miller at 6.25; goes downhill from there.

If space for TV could be had simply by moving one player (Hartnell or Carle) then you have to do this.

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05-12-2011, 12:37 PM
  #659
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Does anyone think the goalie carousel employed by Lavi would have any effect on a goalie wanting to play here?

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05-12-2011, 12:42 PM
  #660
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Does anyone think the goalie carousel employed by Lavi would have any effect on a goalie wanting to play here?
no. wont matter one bit. its not like we had a number 1 goalie. The next guy we bring in will hopefully be the #1 guy. Hes not gonna be paid to play 40 or 41 games.

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05-12-2011, 03:03 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah and they have Lehner too who looks pretty good. hes one the main reasons Binghamton is in the AHL East Final.
So Ottawa has the goalies they want. Florida would be fine with Clemmenson and Markstrom as the back up. Roloson will more than likely sign for cheap with Tampa, considering his success. So that leaves us, Colorado and Phoenix.

Phoenix, if they stay there, they will more than likely keep Bryz at a high price, since Jovo is off the pay roll. Colorado might be **** out of luck or possibly might resort to trading for a young but highly talents goalie prospect in Schneider or Bernier. Colorado is in rebuild mode right now and getting someone really young and talented in goal might help rejuvenate the team. Honestly, I think Vokoun would be the preferred goalie for the Flyers and probably where he'd go.

That's just how I see it.

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05-12-2011, 06:40 PM
  #662
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Or am I wrong?

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05-12-2011, 06:58 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Or am I wrong?
Sounds too easy to just assume Vokoun will fall into our laps.

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05-12-2011, 07:05 PM
  #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Sounds too easy to just assume Vokoun will fall into our laps.
I'm just saying, from what I can tell, I'm sure that many organizations have what they want already or want to re-sign someone that was just with them.

I mean if Tampa goes far with Roloson, you can be he will be their #1 for at least another year or two and I would think there isn't much room for Vokoun considering Clemensson and Markstrom are incoming to be there for the next season. I'm sure at Vokoun's age, he wants to win, and Philly would be a great place to do that.

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05-12-2011, 07:10 PM
  #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Sounds too easy to just assume Vokoun will fall into our laps.
Well, it's easier than assuming teams that just put down 12.75M on a guy are going to be be bidding on other starting goalies.

So, you have:

PHI
COL
TB
PHX
FLA

FLA/PHX both have complicating factors... FLA is in full rebuild mode (not exactly attractive if you're 30 y/o and want to win games) and hasn't been to the playoffs in forever (not exactly attractive if you're 30 y/o and want to win games). PHX is in a year-to-year situation, which isn't really attractive to anyone... they're also likely to be sitting on the cap floor.

So, we have PHI, COL, and TB as the most likely primary suitors. I don't think TB re-signs Roloson given his age with a guy like Bryz sitting there, but that's just me. They are also going to be getting 6M in TV money next year that they didn't have last year to spend. TB should be a big bidder. Then you have Colorado... young team, likely to be good in the years, but not an immediate contender.

PHI is pretty attractive if you're Vokoun and they put a competitive offer in front of you.

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05-12-2011, 11:48 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, it's easier than assuming teams that just put down 12.75M on a guy are going to be be bidding on other starting goalies.

So, you have:

PHI
COL
TB
PHX
FLA

FLA/PHX both have complicating factors... FLA is in full rebuild mode (not exactly attractive if you're 30 y/o and want to win games) and hasn't been to the playoffs in forever (not exactly attractive if you're 30 y/o and want to win games). PHX is in a year-to-year situation, which isn't really attractive to anyone... they're also likely to be sitting on the cap floor.

So, we have PHI, COL, and TB as the most likely primary suitors. I don't think TB re-signs Roloson given his age with a guy like Bryz sitting there, but that's just me. They are also going to be getting 6M in TV money next year that they didn't have last year to spend. TB should be a big bidder. Then you have Colorado... young team, likely to be good in the years, but not an immediate contender.

PHI is pretty attractive if you're Vokoun and they put a competitive offer in front of you.
The fly in the ointment to this approach, though, is being certain that players like Vokoun are tunnel-visioned on playing for a competitor. I'm not convinced that players like Vokoun or Bryzgalov aren't okay with walking to work in flip-flops 12 months a year, stopping fewer pucks than the guy at the other end of the ice, and starting summer early as long as they are getting several million a year.

Last year's exercise in can't-miss math has just soured me on Holmgren doing something significant for a goaltender. Sure, he'll have the best of intentions and may actually dial all 10 numbers of Bryzgalov's agent. But I'm prepared for another catastrophic cop-out, a mediocre stopgap, and another playoff punch line (and I don't mean Shelley and 2 wingers).

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05-12-2011, 11:53 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
The fly in the ointment to this approach, though, is being certain that players like Vokoun are tunnel-visioned on playing for a competitor. I'm not convinced that players like Vokoun or Bryzgalov aren't okay with walking to work in flip-flops 12 months a year, stopping fewer pucks than the guy at the other end of the ice, and starting summer early as long as they are getting several million a year.

Last year's exercise in can't-miss math has just soured me on Holmgren doing something significant for a goaltender. Sure, he'll have the best of intentions and may actually dial all 10 numbers of Bryzgalov's agent. But I'm prepared for another catastrophic cop-out, a mediocre stopgap, and another playoff punch line (and I don't mean Shelley and 2 wingers).
Pretty much.

I'll celebrate Vokoun/Bryzgalov when they suit up for game one.

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05-13-2011, 12:01 AM
  #668
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
The fly in the ointment to this approach, though, is being certain that players like Vokoun are tunnel-visioned on playing for a competitor. I'm not convinced that players like Vokoun or Bryzgalov aren't okay with walking to work in flip-flops 12 months a year, stopping fewer pucks than the guy at the other end of the ice, and starting summer early as long as they are getting several million a year.
Well, if you paid attention... we just went through it without even necessarily focusing on contender and non-contender... and finished with a competitive offer.

The real fly in the ointment is the KHL, not really any NHL team. Unless some team decides to get REALLY expensive in goal, there aren't a lot of teams that will be bidding heavily for Bryz/Vokoun. Dealing for one of the younger guys is another matter, which is why Meltzer's blog is a bit different math.

Quote:
Last year's exercise in can't-miss math has just soured me on Holmgren doing something significant for a goaltender. Sure, he'll have the best of intentions and may actually dial all 10 numbers of Bryzgalov's agent. But I'm prepared for another catastrophic cop-out, a mediocre stopgap, and another playoff punch line (and I don't mean Shelley and 2 wingers).
This is a different matter. And when it happens, we will have Schafer here to tell us all about how goaltending doesn't really matter when you stack the team in front of him.

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05-13-2011, 12:18 AM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
This is a different matter. And when it happens, we will have Schafer here to tell us all about how goaltending doesn't really matter when you stack the team in front of him.
You say this as if it isn't true

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05-13-2011, 12:20 AM
  #670
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I believe that Vokoun will be there for the taking if the Flyers really want him. I don't think the market for him is going to be particularly large, and I think the Flyers are clearly the team that would benefit the most from his services.

To me, the "fly in the ointment" is Holmgren himself. Given Holmgren's proclivities and the Flyers penchant for being cheap at the position of goaltender, I'm not convinced that they will make a serious move for someone of Vokoun's caliber. I can easily imagine them starting next season with the exact same tandem of goalies that we had this season.

I'd like to be proven wrong.

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05-13-2011, 12:22 AM
  #671
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This is a different matter. And when it happens, we will have Schafer here to tell us all about how goaltending doesn't really matter when you stack the team in front of him.
You need to stop lying to people.

I've never said goaltending doesn't matter entirely.

You need someone credible in between the pipes if you want to win a Cup. I, however, don't believe that player needs to be particularly great, just consistent enough to be a starter. I've remained consistent on that point of emphasis as well.

Honestly, you lie more than a politician. I kind of wish you would stop.

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05-13-2011, 12:23 AM
  #672
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I believe that Vokoun will be there for the taking if the Flyers really want him. I don't think the market for him is going to be particularly large, and I think the Flyers are clearly the team that would benefit the most from his services.

To me, the "fly in the ointment" is Holmgren himself. Given Holmgren's proclivities and the Flyers penchant for being cheap at the position of goaltender, I'm not convinced that they will make a serious move for someone of Vokoun's caliber. I can easily imagine them starting next season with the exact same tandem of goalies that we had this season.

I'd like to be proven wrong.
Based on the Jeff Reese interview, I will be furious if we go into next season with the same tandem. Prior to seeing that, I would have been fine with it (if they feel Bob can be the man next year, then I can accept that). But after their own goalie coach said Bob isn't ready to be a no. 1, they better nail down someone.

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05-13-2011, 12:28 AM
  #673
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You need to stop lying to people.

I've never said goaltending doesn't matter entirely.

You need someone credible in between the pipes if you want to win a Cup. I, however, don't believe that player needs to be particularly great, just consistent enough to be a starter. I've remained consistent on that point of emphasis as well.

Honestly, you lie more than a politician. I kind of wish you would stop.
I'm seriously cracking up right out of my ****ing seat, this is the greatest post ever

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05-13-2011, 12:31 AM
  #674
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
You need to stop lying to people.

I've never said goaltending doesn't matter entirely.

You need someone credible in between the pipes if you want to win a Cup. I, however, don't believe that player needs to be particularly great, just consistent enough to be a starter. I've remained consistent on that point of emphasis as well.

Honestly, you lie more than a politician. I kind of wish you would stop.
Like the other day when you accused me of lying about what you said and then I quoted you from one week before saying exactly that?

From Today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
A) Save percentage is still a team statistic so it's not exactly a safe method of calculation. Vokoun is helped and hurt by his team in the save percentage department just like Boucher/Bob is helped here in some ways and hurt here in some ways in terms of save percentage. Does it all even out in the end? Who knows?
If save percentage is a team stat, then why does the goalie matter, Chris? See, you like to have it both ways. You have argued for a couple years now that goalies don't matter, you just need to have the depth up front to neutralize what they're doing and then you can go and win even when you're spotting the other team 2 goals a series (you just said that about 30 minutes ago, remember?).

You can run away from the mantra you have been spouting around here for a long *ing time all you want, but all the regulars are well aware of your shtick, and that has nothing (no matter how much you want to believe it) with anything I've ever said about you. Your words have spoken for themselves.

Now, after consecutive years of goaltending mattering... suddenly you do think it matters... a bit.

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05-13-2011, 12:33 AM
  #675
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
If save percentage is a team stat, then why does the goalie matter, Chris?
I'll just stop reading there.

A goaltender is a member of that team so if save percentage is a team-based stat, then the goaltender obviously plays a part in that.

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