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If you can only keep one of Gill or Hamrlik

View Poll Results: Who do you keep?
Gill 221 60.05%
Hamrlik 147 39.95%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-09-2011, 12:02 AM
  #1
not quite yoda
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If you can only keep one of Gill or Hamrlik

Gill is one of the main leaders of the team, mentoring Price last year and Subban this year. He is our main penalty killer after our goalie. A rock.

Hamrlik is about he same age but more accomplished in the offensive end and has a more polished transition game. Heaven forbid we lose Markov mid-season again, Hamrlik has filled in admirably as a substitute no 1 D for 5 on 5 play.

If Gauthier does overhaul the D a bit to bring in younger legs, we may have to choose between keeping only one of these two veterans on an affordable contract. Both have implied hey would like to return. Who do you keep?

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04-09-2011, 12:09 AM
  #2
Toro
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Gill, he is cheaper. Also if we can only keep one its caus we keep Wiz and markov so Hammer becomes expendable.
Gills PK is the best attribute of both that we would prefer to retain.

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Old
04-09-2011, 12:11 AM
  #3
not quite yoda
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is hamrlik still expendable if markov gets injured again? markov DID miss the last 2 seasons.
hamrlik's contract is up. i am sure we can sign him for the money we arte currently paying gill, 2.25M.

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Old
04-09-2011, 12:16 AM
  #4
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same salary Hamrlik

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04-09-2011, 12:21 AM
  #5
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Depends if we keep markov, wiz and gorges. If we do, easily Gill.

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04-09-2011, 12:24 AM
  #6
WhiskeySeven
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Gill's game is less dependant on speed, which is a big consideration when looking at 35+ players. Gill is also a vocal leader, recent Stanley Cup champ and is considered as part of the team core. He's damn nearly elite on the PK and doesn't take nights off or look "gassed" every other game- he's in good shape.

Hamrlik is a positional two way dman who is freighteningly non-physical. Where Hal Gill has an octopus-like reach with his stick and long strides in lieu of a physical play, Hamrlik doesn't replace his physical timidness with anything. He's too slow and short for that. It hurts his game greatly, especially on te PK where he is too slow to play and chase the low-puck and way too weak to clear the crease. He has the worst PPGA/min on the team for that reason.

On the other hand Gill is a bottom 3 dman who does not contribute offensively. Hamrlik plays with his head up and can make a breakout pass. Neither can shoot at all, but that is more detrimental to Hamrlik than to Gill's game.

Gill can be paired with almost anybody as talented or more and as fast or more than him, so no Picard or MAB or Sopel, and still look like Gill. Hamrlik is only effective with a very mobile linemate who plays the body (leaving Hamr to position) like Subban and Phaneuf.

Hamrlik is a better dman but won't fit this team given that he's only useful 5on5, when partnered with a stud, his game relies on speed and agility more than Gill's and he's losing both very rapidly, and he'll command a bigger salary than Gill will.

It's a nobrainer, this team is better off with Gill than Hamrlik.

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Old
04-09-2011, 12:45 AM
  #7
coolasprICE
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Surprised by the results so far... thought I was alone on the Gill bandwagon

I've always been a huge Gill fan and have voiced my opinion on my preference for Gill over Hamrlik, if it came down between those two.

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04-09-2011, 01:27 AM
  #8
LeBlondeDemon10
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As much as I see the value in Gill, especially because he is the ideal compliment to Subban's game, it would be a shame to sit Hamrlik after what he has done for the club this year. Truth be told, you could say the same about Gill as well. Its a tough decision.

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Old
04-09-2011, 01:45 AM
  #9
MikeyPeenz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Gill's game is less dependant on speed, which is a big consideration when looking at 35+ players. Gill is also a vocal leader, recent Stanley Cup champ and is considered as part of the team core. He's damn nearly elite on the PK and doesn't take nights off or look "gassed" every other game- he's in good shape.

Hamrlik is a positional two way dman who is freighteningly non-physical. Where Hal Gill has an octopus-like reach with his stick and long strides in lieu of a physical play, Hamrlik doesn't replace his physical timidness with anything. He's too slow and short for that. It hurts his game greatly, especially on te PK where he is too slow to play and chase the low-puck and way too weak to clear the crease. He has the worst PPGA/min on the team for that reason.

On the other hand Gill is a bottom 3 dman who does not contribute offensively. Hamrlik plays with his head up and can make a breakout pass. Neither can shoot at all, but that is more detrimental to Hamrlik than to Gill's game.

Gill can be paired with almost anybody as talented or more and as fast or more than him, so no Picard or MAB or Sopel, and still look like Gill. Hamrlik is only effective with a very mobile linemate who plays the body (leaving Hamr to position) like Subban and Phaneuf.

Hamrlik is a better dman but won't fit this team given that he's only useful 5on5, when partnered with a stud, his game relies on speed and agility more than Gill's and he's losing both very rapidly, and he'll command a bigger salary than Gill will.

It's a nobrainer, this team is better off with Gill than Hamrlik.

Honestly this post provides a great comparison between the two, really took the words right out of my mouth sort to speak. I agree 100%.

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Old
04-09-2011, 01:55 AM
  #10
jamz
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At the same salary, Hamrlik.

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Old
04-09-2011, 04:02 AM
  #11
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assuming we dont re-sign Hamrlik... in a season like this one and last, Gill would be playing 22/25 min a game on the first pair... facing opponents best players...

it's easy for a 35+ d-man to look slow or tired when the said d man is the one with the highest TOI/G on the team... pretty sure Gill wouldnt look so great playing an extra 2 or 3 minutes per game, all season long...

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Old
04-09-2011, 06:32 AM
  #12
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I'm happy to see it's 50-50 so far. That's how I see it with the slightest advantage to Gill. As the most penalized team in the NHL, it's good to have a shut down defensman.

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Old
04-09-2011, 06:36 AM
  #13
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Mentoring
Both have mentoring qualities and both have mentored younger d-man. Hamrlik is notorious for mentoring Phaneuf and also mentored Subban in last year's playoffs. Gill has partnered with Subban. No advantage either way.

Offensive Ability
Advantage Hamrlik - no question.

Defensive Ability
On the PK Gill has the longreach and working with the young, energetic Subban. Both Hamrlik and Gill were part of the PK units that led the league earlier in the season. I'd rather see Subban and Markov on the first PK unit to give it more of an offensive threat and two players who can clear the puck. Slight advantage Gill over Hamrlik on the penalty kill but advantage to Hamrlik at even strength.

5 on 5
This team needs all the help it can get offensively and Gill is useless 5 on 5. Gill has been a minus player since being a Hab even in the playoffs. Right now he is second worst only to Gomez. Most of the game is played 5 on 5. Hamrlik huge advantage here.

Durability
Gill was one of the d-man injured early in the 2009 - 2010 season. So with Gill, Markov and O'Byrne all out of the lineup at once Hamrlik held the D together to keep the Habs in the running. Gill also missed a critical playoff game last year which the Habs won. Gill appears to be questionable right now having taken a therapy day and has missed more games than Hamrlik. Advantage Hamrlik.

Physicality
Neither d-man, given the size, is that physical. Not a deciding factor. This is a wash IMO.

Leadership
Gill is a leader who wears an "A" and is a "mouthpiece" for the media. Hamrlik is a quiet leader amongst his teammates and was voted by the media for the JBT. If Gill was to be gone Josh Gorges would certainly be a viable candidate for that "A". Who would mentor PK? Markov, Hamrlik and Spacek all of which have the offensive / defensive perspective to draw from - something Gill doesn't have. Hamrlik's been a leader by example having led the team's decimated D for over two years now and by scoring key goals including the drought breaker.

TOI
Hamrlik has led the team since he's been a Hab. When injuries hit he's been able to fill the voids at even strength, on the PP and on the PK. Advantage Hamrlik.

Shot Blocking
Um............Hamrlik is 4th in the league and it's not the first time he's been in the top 5. Hamrlik advantage.

Loyalty
People forget this team's D was decimated at the end of the 2008 - 2009 season too. No Markov, no Bouillon, no Brisebois, Schneider sporadically. That year Hamrlik took a beating physically and from the fans. Rumor has it he was doing that on a broken foot. He came back last year and carried the D again. This season - same thing. Hamrlik has been a Habs for four years. A stretch where the Habs have not missed the playoffs. He without question has been the glue. Gill has been a Hab for two years and has missed games during critical periods. Hamrlik advantage.

I'd choose Hamrlik without question over Gill. The Habs had another one dimensional d-man last year in MAB. He wasn't re-signed. Gill is a great penalty killer - that's all. Most of the game is played at ES and PK Subban needs a partner who can skate. Subban's +/- was respectable until he partnered with Gill. Having Hamrlik on the second or third pair would be a luxury. With any luck he'll sign at a reduced price and play a reduced role on the third pair and no doubt how effective he would be with reduced TOI.

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Old
04-09-2011, 06:50 AM
  #14
Ghetto Sangria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Mentoring
Both have mentoring qualities and both have mentored younger d-man. Hamrlik is notorious for mentoring Phaneuf and also mentored Subban in last year's playoffs. Gill has partnered with Subban. No advantage either way.

Offensive Ability
Advantage Hamrlik - no question.

Defensive Ability
On the PK Gill has the longreach and working with the young, energetic Subban. Both Hamrlik and Gill were part of the PK units that led the league earlier in the season. I'd rather see Subban and Markov on the first PK unit to give it more of an offensive threat and two players who can clear the puck. Slight advantage Gill over Hamrlik on the penalty kill but advantage to Hamrlik at even strength.

5 on 5
This team needs all the help it can get offensively and Gill is useless 5 on 5. Gill has been a minus player since being a Hab even in the playoffs. Right now he is second worst only to Gomez. Most of the game is played 5 on 5. Hamrlik huge advantage here.

Durability
Gill was one of the d-man injured early in the 2009 - 2010 season. So with Gill, Markov and O'Byrne all out of the lineup at once Hamrlik held the D together to keep the Habs in the running. Gill also missed a critical playoff game last year which the Habs won. Gill appears to be questionable right now having taken a therapy day and has missed more games than Hamrlik. Advantage Hamrlik.

Physicality
Neither d-man, given the size, is that physical. Not a deciding factor. This is a wash IMO.

Leadership
Gill is a leader who wears an "A" and is a "mouthpiece" for the media. Hamrlik is a quiet leader amongst his teammates and was voted by the media for the JBT. If Gill was to be gone Josh Gorges would certainly be a viable candidate for that "A". Who would mentor PK? Markov, Hamrlik and Spacek all of which have the offensive / defensive perspective to draw from - something Gill doesn't have. Hamrlik's been a leader by example having led the team's decimated D for over two years now and by scoring key goals including the drought breaker.

TOI
Hamrlik has led the team since he's been a Hab. When injuries hit he's been able to fill the voids at even strength, on the PP and on the PK. Advantage Hamrlik.

Shot Blocking
Um............Hamrlik is 4th in the league and it's not the first time he's been in the top 5. Hamrlik advantage.

Loyalty
People forget this team's D was decimated at the end of the 2008 - 2009 season too. No Markov, no Bouillon, no Brisebois, Schneider sporadically. That year Hamrlik took a beating physically and from the fans. Rumor has it he was doing that on a broken foot. He came back last year and carried the D again. This season - same thing. Hamrlik has been a Habs for four years. A stretch where the Habs have not missed the playoffs. He without question has been the glue. Gill has been a Hab for two years and has missed games during critical periods. Hamrlik advantage.

I'd choose Hamrlik without question over Gill. The Habs had another one dimensional d-man last year in MAB. He wasn't re-signed. Gill is a great penalty killer - that's all. Most of the game is played at ES and PK Subban needs a partner who can skate. Subban's +/- was respectable until he partnered with Gill. Having Hamrlik on the second or third pair would be a luxury. With any luck he'll sign at a reduced price and play a reduced role on the third pair and no doubt how effective he would be with reduced TOI.
A few things wrong with your assessment. Gill is more physical. He clears the crease and plays the body well. Gill is a much better leader, that should be obvious enough. Loyalty... they both have it.

Another thing to keep in mind... playoffs and winning pedigree. Gill has done it all, while being the top defenseman on a stanley cup winning team. Gill is a playoff beast and we can't forget it. It's during the playoffs where defensive defensemen shine... and hamrlik definitely didn't shine last playoffs.

That being said I voted for Gill. I would love to keep both, but unfortunately its spacek we have for another year and not Hammer.

Markov Wiz
Gill Subban
Hammer Gorges

Would be an incredible defense

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04-09-2011, 06:57 AM
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Nobody knows if Markov will be able to handle the tough minutes at even strength that he used to. That leaves Subban and maybe Gorges - we need someone on the left side. Either Hamrlik or Gill (or both) might finally have a steep decline next year, but at least Hamrlik has Martin's trust with handling the tough minutes now, and is doing a good job. I'd be happy to bet on Hamrlik with a one year deal.

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04-09-2011, 07:07 AM
  #16
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Hammer. I would very much like Hamrlik-Weber to be our bottom pairing next year. I really dislike how many of you are saying get rid of Weber or trade Weber. Weber will be better than James Wisniewski in three years time. Perhaps not offensively but defensively he is already better, and offensively Weber will be a good one.

Question though, since Weber only played 40 games this year and hasn't played 6 games in any previous season, will he still be a rookie and Calder eligible next year?

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04-09-2011, 07:14 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
A few things wrong with your assessment. Gill is more physical. He clears the crease and plays the body well. Gill is a much better leader, that should be obvious enough. Loyalty... they both have it.

Another thing to keep in mind... playoffs and winning pedigree. Gill has done it all, while being the top defenseman on a stanley cup winning team. Gill is a playoff beast and we can't forget it. It's during the playoffs where defensive defensemen shine... and hamrlik definitely didn't shine last playoffs.

That being said I voted for Gill. I would love to keep both, but unfortunately its spacek we have for another year and not Hammer.

Markov Wiz
Gill Subban
Hammer Gorges

Would be an incredible defense
Has Hamrlik won a Stanley Cup? No, but he is familiar with winning having won an Olympic Gold Medal. Hamrlik had two rough games against Washington. Despite that he was still close to leading the team + / - and scored more points than any other Habs' d-man since 1993.

So when Hamrlik blocked a shot against Pittsburgh, bowled over the Pittsburgh player that led to Gionta's goal that wasn't shining or being physical. Or Spacek's goal - go back and see who made the D play? Did you get a glimpse of the player who was physical at the blueline while keeping the puck in that led to Moore's goal in game 7?

Hamrlik doesn't "shine" because of his demeanor. How is Gill a "much better" leader? Because he's the one who is the mouthpiece and spews the "player speak". I'll take the guy that counters with what he actually thinks than what is "player speak". I've seen plenty of leadership from Hamrlik.

To me it's almost a debate as to whether we want to see the Habs improve at 5 on 5 or not. If we do than Gill has got to be out of the top pairing if not the lineup all together. I think there would be "life" after Gill - he played for Pittsburgh, right? And where is their PK ranked and where do they stand in the conference? What is their goal differential?

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04-09-2011, 07:32 AM
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Tough, tough, tough, tough poll... but I had to choose Hamrlik, for all he went through, for all he gave so far, for the fact that whenever he was needed, he stepped up to replace Markov and be the leader on D we needed... but damn I really like Gill too... let's say we could trade Spacek, then I'd sign the 2 of 'em...

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04-09-2011, 07:32 AM
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Rename this thread to "How NOT to compare two players", by swimmer77. Loyalty, that's a real comparable category, eh?

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04-09-2011, 07:44 AM
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MARKOV - EMELIN
HAMRLIK - SUBBAN
GILL/SPACEK - JORGES
WEBER

Thats how i'd do it. Spacek traded if possible

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04-09-2011, 07:57 AM
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Hamrlik, but I don't see any reason to think it'd be either/or. Each has a pretty well-defined and valuable role, and I'd be looking to get them both back. The only dependencies are money and term, but Hamrlik and Gill are completely indepedent of eachother.

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04-09-2011, 08:01 AM
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swimmer77
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Rename this thread to "How NOT to compare two players", by swimmer77. Loyalty, that's a real comparable category, eh?
<shrug> Whatever.................

We disagree on the subject (see last debate). I showed you proof last time which you never acknowledged.

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04-09-2011, 08:03 AM
  #23
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I voted to keep Gill. Hamrlik is a major caphit and the oldest who has clearly lost a step as year has gone on.

Like to see Weber or Carle make team next year, if we sign top 4 d-men, not against both moving on. Unless they trade a Spacek

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04-09-2011, 08:27 AM
  #24
Bobby G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Gill's game is less dependant on speed, which is a big consideration when looking at 35+ players. Gill is also a vocal leader, recent Stanley Cup champ and is considered as part of the team core. He's damn nearly elite on the PK and doesn't take nights off or look "gassed" every other game- he's in good shape.

Hamrlik is a positional two way dman who is freighteningly non-physical. Where Hal Gill has an octopus-like reach with his stick and long strides in lieu of a physical play, Hamrlik doesn't replace his physical timidness with anything. He's too slow and short for that. It hurts his game greatly, especially on te PK where he is too slow to play and chase the low-puck and way too weak to clear the crease. He has the worst PPGA/min on the team for that reason.

On the other hand Gill is a bottom 3 dman who does not contribute offensively. Hamrlik plays with his head up and can make a breakout pass. Neither can shoot at all, but that is more detrimental to Hamrlik than to Gill's game.

Gill can be paired with almost anybody as talented or more and as fast or more than him, so no Picard or MAB or Sopel, and still look like Gill. Hamrlik is only effective with a very mobile linemate who plays the body (leaving Hamr to position) like Subban and Phaneuf.

Hamrlik is a better dman but won't fit this team given that he's only useful 5on5, when partnered with a stud, his game relies on speed and agility more than Gill's and he's losing both very rapidly, and he'll command a bigger salary than Gill will.

It's a nobrainer, this team is better off with Gill than Hamrlik.
Going to disagree with a few things. You are really underestimating Hamrlik's speed when you say they are both slow, Hammer is still much quicker than Gill. He has always played the majority of the time with Spacek who is neither fast nor physical. While Gill is MUCH more reliant on a decent partner ala Subban or Gorges

Neither are Physical, Gill has nice reach, but having long strides dont count for anything if you're slow.

As far as players go the comparison really isn't that close, Hamrlik is much better. The thing that makes it close is Gill being such a great team guy and will sacrificing whatever it takes to win.

I see one of the two playing on the bottom pairing behind: Markov, Wiz, Subban, Gorges
and with: Spacek

I personally take Hamrlik because I value his game much more than Gills. Hamrlik is so underappreciated on this forum, he leads our team in TOI, only 5 less points than Subban and a +5. Not sure what the guy has to do, he would be IMO a stud of a 3rd pairing guy, but he isn't getting used like that.

But I wouldn't be opposed to letting them both walk in favor of a UFA or Weber (who looks ready to me)

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04-09-2011, 08:30 AM
  #25
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keep Hammer at Gill's 2.75M....

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