I wish NBC would have a shutter cam like TVG usually does. Also, seemed pretty quick in deciding. First dead heat in a graded stakes race that I recall was Devil His Due and Lure, think it was the Gotham, Philly Park just left the TV shot on the toteboard and it seemed like it took an hour.
But it was poetic because they talked about how the race was going to get crazy with no speed and defections.
Kicking myself for looking past Willy in my Pick 4, but I don't get the payouts I saw - 495 for the 50 cent base? The Double and Pick 3 paid two different prices, the Pick 4 paid one, why is that?
Though it was a good day for me, bet one race heavy at Monmouth and hit it out of the park, then stepped in **** for a nice 10 cent super.
Personally, I think he's above the Breeders' Cup. We make it out to be this big event, 'World Championships,' etc., but it only really affects the legacies of North American horses, and hurts them when Europeans come over to show them up. I think people know Europe is where the big boys run, and American horses can't really compete. Plus, Europeans seem to prefer the Arlington Million and Canadian International. It would be nice if he came, but the big European stars mean more to the show and not necessarily the race.
Speaking of the Arlington Million, how about Little Mike? Stealing one on the front end much like The Tin Man did once upon a time. Ramon Dominguez with his 2nd Million win, and no one's ever won 3.
I agree to an extent. Of those brilliant European horses to go over, quite a few do get beat for a variety of reasons, and the event isn't always a true reflection of the pecking order in Europe. Goldikova being an example, as good as she was, i imagine she is considered to be one of the best Euros over there, though she was comfortably beaten by Zarkava/Canford cliffs and would have been destroyed by Frankel. The event isn't as popular with some of the traditional trainers, but that may change given many of the old guard in the trainers ranks are coming to the end of their career IMO.
One major reason why some European horses do come over is to increase their stud worth ; Frankel isn't going to have such issues. The horse is worth a fortune and isn't going to be marketed towards North America anyway.
I only saw the finishing stages of the Arlington, but how badly was Afsare behaving at the start? Is Little Mike considered the best in the division in NA? Realistically Afsare isn't good enough to really compete in Group 1's over here.
As a side note, i've not heard any rumours about which European horses are likely to be aimed at the BC. I get the feeling outside of Ballydoyle, you won't see too many travel. Where is it held this year?
I agree to an extent. Of those brilliant European horses to go over, quite a few do get beat for a variety of reasons, and the event isn't always a true reflection of the pecking order in Europe. Goldikova being an example, as good as she was, i imagine she is considered to be one of the best Euros over there, though she was comfortably beaten by Zarkava/Canford cliffs and would have been destroyed by Frankel. The event isn't as popular with some of the traditional trainers, but that may change given many of the old guard in the trainers ranks are coming to the end of their career IMO.
One major reason why some European horses do come over is to increase their stud worth ; Frankel isn't going to have such issues. The horse is worth a fortune and isn't going to be marketed towards North America anyway.
I only saw the finishing stages of the Arlington, but how badly was Afsare behaving at the start? Is Little Mike considered the best in the division in NA? Realistically Afsare isn't good enough to really compete in Group 1's over here.
As a side note, i've not heard any rumours about which European horses are likely to be aimed at the BC. I get the feeling outside of Ballydoyle, you won't see too many travel. Where is it held this year?
Yeah, Goldikova was sort of billed as a European superhorse gracing her presence every year.
Afsare was said to delay the start, I didn't see the coverage live though, so I'm not sure what exactly he did. Little Mike may be the best of a lukewarm group, it's his 2nd G1, but I don't think anyone's going to be afraid of him. He stole the Million basically galloping on the lead. If Afsare wants to come back at the BC, should be able to roll.
Breeders' Cup is back at Santa Anita, and is there again next year. The lack of rotation is annoying, but most tracks either aren't big enough or moved to synthetic, so it's basically tossed between Santa Anita and Churchill.
NYRA's going to get a 2nd canoe.
Damn, missed the Canadian Derby, I usually make sure I get that one up. NTRA changed around their website and it's a pain in the ass to keep track of all the graded races now.
Yeah, Goldikova was sort of billed as a European superhorse gracing her presence every year.
Which is understandable to an extent, given she won 3 BC's in a row. However she was beaten by some very good horses over here ; Zarkava, Makfi, Canford cliffs, Dream Ahead and through those formlines is probably behind Excelebration, nevermind Frankel. Perhaps i am being a tad harsh, but her peak ability is often overrated.
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Originally Posted by GKJ
Afsare was said to delay the start, I didn't see the coverage live though, so I'm not sure what exactly he did. Little Mike may be the best of a lukewarm group, it's his 2nd G1, but I don't think anyone's going to be afraid of him. He stole the Million basically galloping on the lead. If Afsare wants to come back at the BC, should be able to roll.
Afsare seems likely to go to Australia with some other Cumani horses, given he likes to target those races. He wouldn't have a hope in hell of winning a BC turf if some of the big European boys turn up.
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Originally Posted by GKJ
Breeders' Cup is back at Santa Anita, and is there again next year. The lack of rotation is annoying, but most tracks either aren't big enough or moved to synthetic, so it's basically tossed between Santa Anita and Churchill.
Yes, that is disappointing. Gets somewhat boring.
I really should pay more attention to US racing, but the different surface, complete lack of variation relative to the UK and the fact that we never see US horses over here mean i find myself with little motivation to do so.
Going to go with Richard's Kid in the Pacific Classic, for a 3rd time. Looks like Del Mar is his best course, and looks in form to me. Don't think the drama surrounding the horse means much.
NYRA pulled its bid and never submitted a formal application for the 2013 event.
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Once part of a regular rotation with Churchill Downs in Louisville and the L.A.-area tracks, Belmont has steadily been marginalized as a Breeders’ Cup site over the last decade. NYRA is in many ways more financially stable now than at any point in the last 10 years – thanks to the influx of revenues from a casino that opened in 2011 at its Aqueduct racetrack in Queens – but the association’s relentless financial and political entanglements since declaring bankruptcy in 2006 has scared off Breeders’ Cup. At the same time, Breeders’ Cup’s has increasingly sought out tracks that have stable relationships with legislators and a history of posting strong attendance and handle for the championship event, criteria that Belmont has not met, even in the best of times.
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A Belmont bid also has to overcome the preferences of a sizeable contingent on the Breeders’ Cup board that holds Santa Anita in high regard because of its warm weather and a favorable time zone, two reasons why Santa Anita has been selected as the host site four times in the last six years. Even when interest in Santa Anita wanes, many members of the Breeders’ Cup board default to Churchill Downs, despite the possibility of poor November weather, because Kentucky’s horse culture guarantees strong ontrack crowds, vibrant community involvement, and full-press local media coverage.
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Steven Duncker, whose current four-year term as chairman of NYRA’s board expires in September, said that the association expects to apply for the 2014 event at Belmont.
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Ludt said that Breeders’ Cup would welcome a 2014 bid by NYRA, just as long as a chief executive was there to do the bidding, with the backing of a new board.
Once part of a regular rotation with Churchill Downs in Louisville and the L.A.-area tracks, Belmont has steadily been marginalized as a Breeders’ Cup site over the last decade. NYRA is in many ways more financially stable now than at any point in the last 10 years – thanks to the influx of revenues from a casino that opened in 2011 at its Aqueduct racetrack in Queens – but the association’s relentless financial and political entanglements since declaring bankruptcy in 2006 has scared off Breeders’ Cup. At the same time, Breeders’ Cup’s has increasingly sought out tracks that have stable relationships with legislators and a history of posting strong attendance and handle for the championship event, criteria that Belmont has not met, even in the best of times.
Understandable.
I remember attending the first Belmont Breeders Cup in 1990.
It was brutally cold being in the 40's with a breeze. There's basically no place to hide from the cold at Belmont. I would not do that again. It was impossible to concentrate.
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A Belmont bid also has to overcome the preferences of a sizeable contingent on the Breeders’ Cup board that holds Santa Anita in high regard because of its warm weather and a favorable time zone, two reasons why Santa Anita has been selected as the host site four times in the last six years. Even when interest in Santa Anita wanes, many members of the Breeders’ Cup board default to Churchill Downs, despite the possibility of poor November weather, because Kentucky’s horse culture guarantees strong ontrack crowds, vibrant community involvement, and full-press local media coverage.
The downside to that is the additional 6 hours of travel for the European contingent, and the condition of the main track, which GKJ reminded me is back to dirt.
I'm sure this information is widely known amongst horseman.
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Santa Anita leads California tracks in horse racing deaths
Horses died while racing at Santa Anita Park at more than double the rate of horses at the state's other three major thoroughbred tracks over the last fiscal year, according to state statistics.
The fatality rate at Santa Anita, in Arcadia, rose significantly after a return to a dirt running surface in 2010 after three years of using a synthetic track, the data show.
I'm on fire this year, won another few hundred just betting 3 races at Monmouth today (was more focused on the BBQ and beer fest, which was fantastic)
Can't believe the public let Doubled go off at 15-1, thank you very very much!
And the Sanford may be turning into quite the key race - Bern Identity won that, who is entered in tomorrow's feature at Saratoga, but the 4th place runner in that came back to win the Grade 3 Sapling at Monmouth today.
Not to side-track the discussion but I'm curious, since Frankel came up a page or so back, where would people rank him in the list of all-time greats?
I've only seen Frankel race in the 2000 Guineas, QEII and Queen Anne but a couple of my friends have had the argument with me a few times that he'd place him as the greatest ever.
Just curious as to where people here would have him ranked in a list of, let's say - Man o' War, Secretariat, Citation, Seattle Slew, Ruffian, Zenyatta, Spectacular Bid and Native Dancer.
Not to side-track the discussion but I'm curious, since Frankel came up a page or so back, where would people rank him in the list of all-time greats?
I've only seen Frankel race in the 2000 Guineas, QEII and Queen Anne but a couple of my friends have had the argument with me a few times that he'd place him as the greatest ever.
Just curious as to where people here would have him ranked in a list of, let's say - Man o' War, Secretariat, Citation, Seattle Slew, Ruffian, Zenyatta, Spectacular Bid and Native Dancer.
I'm generally not a proponent of listing and comparing athletes and athletic accomplishments from different eras mainly because there are too many variables that have to be considered. In this industry, training alone has vast differences over time. Affirmed and Bid each ran about 30 times and though I was a big Bid fan, I'm not sure about putting him ahead of Affirmed on this list.
This is a list of 100 greatest thoroughbreds from the last century and it is a guessing game as to others, besides Zenyatta, who'd make the cut
Not to side-track the discussion but I'm curious, since Frankel came up a page or so back, where would people rank him in the list of all-time greats?
I've only seen Frankel race in the 2000 Guineas, QEII and Queen Anne but a couple of my friends have had the argument with me a few times that he'd place him as the greatest ever.
Just curious as to where people here would have him ranked in a list of, let's say - Man o' War, Secretariat, Citation, Seattle Slew, Ruffian, Zenyatta, Spectacular Bid and Native Dancer.
Firstly, Zenyatta should never be on a list of the greatest race horses of all time.
Secondly, making such a list is impossible and logically insane. Especially given horse races are never run with the sole purpose of running the fastest time. European racing also has no history of sectional times.
Solely for European horses, Frankel has the highest rating ever achieved through various independant form analysing companies, but is officially not quite the best. It's widely viewed that only one other horse in the last 50 years is seriously comparable over a Mile ; Brigadier Gerard. If we open up the distances a little more, then Sea Bird II, Dancing Brave, Ribot, Mill Reef, Vaguely Noble and Tudor Minstrel would be along with Frankel and Brigadier Gerard considered for such a title post-war.
I don't know who this list compares with a US list, but given i imagine any US list will be primarily comprised of dirt performances, i'd say any cross-comparison is almost impossible. I am not sure i could say Frankel is the best European horse ever, because i think it's impossible to validate such a claim, but he's undoubtedly the best horse IMO in European racing for 40+ years. He'd comfortably rank ahead of Sea the stars, Zarkava or Goldikova.
I don't know if Zenyatta ran against the boys enough times to be considered among the top 15 or so. On the Bloodhorse Magazine, they have Cigar at 18 and I don't know if you can put Zenyatta ahead of Cigar, who both had longevity going for them.
three-year-old fillies in Saturday's Grade 1, $300,000 Garden City over nine furlongs on the inner turf at Belmont Park.
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A full-fledged member of the Chad Brown stable since that defeat, Samitar will race with Lasix for the first time in the Garden City. Ramon Dominguez returns to the saddle.
Tannery makes her U.S. debut in the Garden City for trainer Alan Goldberg. The Dylan Thomas filly has shown a preference for soft ground this season, winning three of her past four in Ireland. Her first stakes win, in the May 6 Victor McCalmont at Gowran Park, was later followed by a score in the Martin Molony at Limerick against males, and the Group 3 Kilboy Estates at the Curragh by a half-length in her most recent start July 22.
The main domestic challenge might come from Karlovy Vary. The Grade 1 Ashland winner has won three of six on turf, but has yet to win a stakes on the surface in two attempts. She exits an even performance in the July 29 Nani's Rose at Saratoga, where she finished 1 1/2 lengths third as the 3-5 favorite.
Invading from the West Coast is Open Water, who crashed the exotics at long odds in her last two. Second at 27-1 in the Grade 2 San Clemente Handicap, she was most recently third at 25-1 in the Grade 1 Del Mar Oaks. She also placed third in the Grade 1 Las Virgenes earlier this year.
Somali Lemonade was arguably the most exciting juvenile turf filly performer in the east last year, but has failed to live up to expectations the past 11 months. She's placed in only three of six starts since taking last fall's Grade 3 Jessamine at Keeneland, most recently grabbing show honors in the Grade 2 Lake Placid at Saratoga.
The Garden City field is rounded out by allowance winners Ciao Bella and Trophy Wife.
