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Red Fisher: Markov's best bet is the KHL

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Old
05-02-2011, 07:06 PM
  #51
Evil Ted
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There is no way he goes to the KHL there are 29 teams other then montreal that would pay alot of money to have a defenceman like him. Contrary to what alot of people are saying in here they wont care much about the fluke injuries this past few seasons someone is going to give him top dollar.

I hope he is back if not habs will need to sign or trade for someone.

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Old
05-03-2011, 07:45 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Patrice Brisebois View Post
If Montreal doesn't give him a decent offer, then one of the other 29 teams will. He doesn't need to go to the KHL to get it, and from I understand, he would never go to the KHL. I think people forget how good Markov really is.
how good he WAS

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05-03-2011, 07:52 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
How good he was, or how good he is?

Because the latter we don't really know. I would hate to see Markov play anywhere besides Montreal, but he is a gamble and we cannot bet next season on his health.
Markov is too risky to comit long term dollars

there isn`t a hope in hell he plays at full strength

bro I dont know of anyone who came back from his injuries and played

what is it 3 total recontsructive ACL injuries

the issue isnt can he come back its this

CAN HE PLAY DECENTLY AT STUPID MONEY ?

Markov right now is worth 5 mil over 2 years for a 2.5 mil cap hit

with Bieksa ...Erhoff...and others available and plenty of cap space freed up

make a run at 1 or 2 of these guys

I would rather overpay one of these than Markov any day of the week

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Old
05-03-2011, 08:20 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by geeman View Post
Markov is too risky to comit long term dollars

there isn`t a hope in hell he plays at full strength

bro I dont know of anyone who came back from his injuries and played

what is it 3 total recontsructive ACL injuries


the issue isnt can he come back its this

CAN HE PLAY DECENTLY AT STUPID MONEY ?

Markov right now is worth 5 mil over 2 years for a 2.5 mil cap hit

with Bieksa ...Erhoff...and others available and plenty of cap space freed up

make a run at 1 or 2 of these guys

I would rather overpay one of these than Markov any day of the week
You're speaking out of ignorance.

Justin Williams had the exact same injury. He got a donor transplant which worked splendidly as he had his best career season this past year. Williams himself said that he wasn't worried for Markov, and expected him to return to full form. (paraphrased from the JDM Justin Williams article when LA played Montreal this season)

It is Markov's first time with a donor transplant, which is more succesful than the graft transplants he had before.

You can sign Markov at 5 mil per season and still have plenty of space to sign a Ehrhoff type player who will take Hamrlik's cap space, so there is no added cap.

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Old
05-03-2011, 08:34 AM
  #55
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Markov never learned how to avoid bodychecks or take them...he's always way too vulnerable out there (arms/legs/knees/ neck/head/shoulders,etc...). He is made of glass and he needs to learn how to protect himself a la Subban...it's probably too late for him to learn this (who is gonna tell him to watch Subban tapes?!). Also...Gorges knows how to get ready for bodychecks, but Subban always keeps his head up and even knows how to avoid them (sometimes avoids 2 body-checkers coming at him) and handle the puck at the same time...hard to teach (Subban should be an iron-man, aka, not an injury prone dman).

IF Markov doesn't agree to a relatively cheap 2 year contract...goodbye (imo). Habs >>>>>>> Markov.


Get 2 UFA dmen to help Subban and Gorges...:
Brewer
Bieksa
Erhoff (good but too expensive?)
O'Brien (6'3, 220lbs...relatively cheap?)
Babchuk (6'5, 215lbs ; rightie ; offensive talent ; no heart/grit? not sure)
Wisniewski (only for a cheap $4mil/year, 4 yr contract)
Ericsson (6'4, 220lbs)
----------- ------------ ---- ------------ ---------------


__?__ - __?__
Spacek?/__?__ - Subban
Gill? - Gorges
Weber (winger/dman?)
Mara as 7th or 8th dman (cheap 1yr? for toughness/protection)
Sopel (cheap 1 yr deal?)


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 05-03-2011 at 08:46 AM.
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Old
05-03-2011, 08:38 AM
  #56
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Yeah, I don't think any KHL team will give Markov what he wants, because he is injury prone

Fisher is really stupid

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05-03-2011, 08:45 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Markov never learned how to avoid bodychecks or take them...he's always way too vulnerable out there (arms/legs/knees/ neck/head/shoulders,etc...). He is made of glass and he needs to learn how to protect himself a la Subban...it's probably too late for him to learn this (who is gonna tell him to watch Subban tapes?!). Also...Gorges knows how to get ready for bodychecks, but Subban always keeps his head up and even knows how to avoid them (sometimes avoids 2 body-checkers coming at him) and handle the puck at the same time...hard to teach (Subban should be an iron-man, aka, not an injury prone dman).

IF Markov doesn't agree to a relatively cheap 2 year contract...goodbye (imo). Habs >>>>>>> Markov.


Get 2 UFA dmen to help Subban and Gorges...:
Brewer
Bieksa
Erhoff (good but too expensive?)
O'Brien (6'3, 220lbs...relatively cheap?)
Babchuk (6'5, 215lbs ; rightie ; offensive talent ; no heart/grit? not sure)
Wisniewski (only for a cheap $4mil/year, 4 yr contract)
Ericsson (6'4, 220lbs)
----------- ------------ ---- ------------ ---------------


__?__ - __?__
Spacek?/__?__ - Subban
Gill? - Gorges
Weber (winger/dman?)
Mara as 7th or 8th dman (cheap 1yr? for toughness/protection)
Sopel (cheap 1 yr deal?)
Yeah, that's probably why he missed only 40 games in 6 straight seasons (+ the full season he played in Moscow the year of the lockout)...

It's only in the last two years that he had some badluck.

Fortunetly, adding Subban to the lineup will take some attention away from Markov.

Having BOTH of them is the solution.

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Old
05-03-2011, 08:50 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
Markov is too risky to comit long term dollars

there isn`t a hope in hell he plays at full strength

bro I dont know of anyone who came back from his injuries and played

what is it 3 total recontsructive ACL injuries

the issue isnt can he come back its this

CAN HE PLAY DECENTLY AT STUPID MONEY ?

Markov right now is worth 5 mil over 2 years for a 2.5 mil cap hit

with Bieksa ...Erhoff...and others available and plenty of cap space freed up

make a run at 1 or 2 of these guys

I would rather overpay one of these than Markov any day of the week
Dr. Recchi is that you?

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Old
05-03-2011, 09:02 AM
  #59
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I somewhat agree Markov has a tough time taking a hit. I mean c'mon sometimes he's looked like he was hit by a cannonball. In his earlier years I think he flew under the radar without much consequence. Now he's well known to be an impact player and a player who maybe isn't too fond of the physical stuff.

When games become more meaningful and physical I probably will gasp when someone makes contact with him assuming he's a Hab. Having said that I think the Habs should still sign him but at the same time be very aware of what can happen should he go down and that probably goes without saying. LOL

Although I'd like him to remain a Hab his being on the roster is risky but then again numerous d-men have been suffering injuries league wide. I have no reason to believe next season will be any different. I mean how many assets have the Habs given up to fill the voids on an injury depleted D the last 3 years?

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05-03-2011, 09:03 AM
  #60
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how good he WAS
Are you talking about Markov or Gomez?

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05-03-2011, 09:04 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
Markov is too risky to comit long term dollars

there isn`t a hope in hell he plays at full strength

bro I dont know of anyone who came back from his injuries and played

what is it 3 total recontsructive ACL injuries

the issue isnt can he come back its this

CAN HE PLAY DECENTLY AT STUPID MONEY ?

Markov right now is worth 5 mil over 2 years for a 2.5 mil cap hit

with Bieksa ...Erhoff...and others available and plenty of cap space freed up

make a run at 1 or 2 of these guys

I would rather overpay one of these than Markov any day of the week
Wisniewski ?

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Old
05-03-2011, 09:46 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yeah, that's probably why he missed only 40 games in 6 straight seasons (+ the full season he played in Moscow the year of the lockout)...

It's only in the last two years that he had some badluck.

Fortunetly, adding Subban to the lineup will take some attention away from Markov.

Having BOTH of them is the solution.
I hope I'm wrong...trust me I do. And I have never seen Markov deliver anything in the playoffs. (huge no-no for me since I'm huge on playoff performances). Example: I'm now a huge fan of Eller...he was impressive as a rookie in his 1st playoffs...

I want to be wrong...but I will still say that Markov is made of glass.
I want to see him average 70 games+ and be healthy for playoffs or be able to play well semi-injured in playoffs OR ELSE...I'll continue thinking he's just in it for more and more money.
I believe PK Subban and Josh Gorges are in it to win a Cup (or two).

Not sure how Markov played full seasons before.

I might prefer (for example) Bieksa+O'Brien VS Markov...or
Brewer+O'Brien VS Markov.

But if it's Markov, then so be it. I'm actually a fan of Markov (cerebral game/style) but I can't stand it when he falls to the ice like spaghetti...he's way too fragile for $5.5 - 6mil/year (ex: when Grabovski gave a regular everyday bodycheck to Markov and Markov was out for months). And I can't stand the fact that he has never delivered in playoffs (which makes me believe he's in it only for the money...and don't mention his citizenship...I have no idea why he decided to get one...he's Russian first and foremost...he doesn't stay here in summer and he doesn't have to -I couldn't care less- but don't tell me he's Canadian...he even laughed in an insulting way when asked if he would ever play for Team Canada).

Also...I don't want Markov to get greedy (he's made more than enough $$$ in the last 6 years). Markov should take what our GM gives him (it's more than enough to pay the bills and buy some caviar here and there). Some of these NHLers are so ****ing greedy it pisses me off (ex: Souray is now taking the bus in the AHL...sweet karma).

The Habs and the quest to the Cup is way more important than Markov's quest for more money (BTW, I hate Markov's greedy &*%^&* agent).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 05-03-2011 at 09:59 AM.
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Old
05-03-2011, 09:58 AM
  #63
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If I'm Pierre Gauthier right now I take down the information on how many games Markov actually played out of that contract and how many he didn't. How many important playoff games he missed.

Then I go to Markov and his agent and I say look, we gave you the benefit of the doubt all these times when you were injured constantly, kept coming back only to get re-injured. Our team struggled and had to trade away assets far more valuable than a couple million dollars in order to replace the void constantly being left by your injuries.

You got paid 22 million dollars for a lot of time you didn't even play. I understand he works hard even when injured by the way, but he has to give the team the benefit of the doubt too. We invested not only money but cap space in a guy who basically couldn't even play, has had many surgeries now and might never be the same. What's the big deal with signing a one year deal? If he feels he's ready and will perform, I don't get why he won't sign a one year deal. If he proves he's back to form and all that I'd definitely give him the 3-5 year plan after proving for a season that not only is he not made of glass but he's able to play at the same level.

People thinking a guy whose played a dozen games over 2-3 seasons is going to come back to form, to me, are just crazy. Sure it can happen, sure it's possible, but I wouldn't make a bet that's for sure. It's all a big giant question mark. If Markov and his agent can't see that then I'd gladly let him walk to Detroit for a 3-5 year deal. I don't think KHL is his only choice, many other teams will take the risk, teams needing to hit the cap bottom and such anyways, I just don't see PG giving Markov what he wants, 5.5 x 3.

PS: He didn't laugh in an insulting way, he laughed in a competitive way. As in "LOL, no way I'm from Russia and I play for my Country!"

If it were reversed do you think Stamkos would play for Russia? Come on now. You'd get the biggest LOL reaction from just about any player with that kind of question.

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Old
05-03-2011, 10:26 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
When a player gets the same injury twice in a row, the insurances don't pay anymore.

I love Markov, but 5M is not much of a pay cut for a guy getting that kind of length. I'd expect an average maybe 1M lower if he gets a 7 year deal. I just don't see the point to bend over backwards like this. We'd be taking all the risks.
We owe Markov for the years of faithful service he gave to Montreal.

Instead of 7 years , it could be 5 or 6 years with a cap hit of around 4.5m. Something like:
Cap Hit: $4.583 million.
2011-12: $7.5 million. (with a conditional automatic extension if his knee holds out the first year, otherwise the contract is nullified)
2012-13: $6.0 million.
2013-14: $5.0 million.
2014-15: $4.0 million.
2015-16: $3.5 million.
2016-17: $1.5 million.
2017-18: UFA


Last edited by Smoke Monster: 05-05-2011 at 09:11 PM.
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Old
05-03-2011, 10:46 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
We owe Markov for the years of faithful service he gave to Montreal.

Instead of 7 years , it could be 5 or 6 years with a cap hit of around 4.5m. Something like:
Cap Hit: $4.583 million.
2011-12: $7.5 million.
2012-13: $6.0 million.
2013-14: $5.0 million.
2014-15: $4.0 million.
2015-16: $3.5 million.
2016-17: $1.5 million.
2017-18: UFA
The Habs owe Markov zilch. He's been injured repeatedly and between injuries trotted off to the Olympics. He's been paid for his services or lack thereof. The Habs have given up assets to fill the voids left by his injuries. They "owe" him nothing.

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Old
05-03-2011, 10:50 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke Monster View Post
Instead of 7 years , it could be 5 or 6 years with a cap hit of around 4.5m. Something like:
Cap Hit: $4.583 million.
2011-12: $7.5 million.
2012-13: $6.0 million.
2013-14: $5.0 million.
2014-15: $4.0 million.
2015-16: $3.5 million.
2016-17: $1.5 million.
2017-18: UFA
Way too big a risk. If he blows his knee out again he'll be untradeable and stuck on the books for all those years.

I think 2 years at $5-6m/per is about right. Maybe $6.5m/per, max. Any longer is too much of a risk until he proves himself capable of playing 80 games again.

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Old
05-03-2011, 11:42 AM
  #67
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I believe Markov will be signed and retire a Hab. A 4 year deal at 4 to 4.5mil would be a fair contract.

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05-03-2011, 12:20 PM
  #68
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You're speaking out of ignorance.

Justin Williams had the exact same injury. He got a donor transplant which worked splendidly as he had his best career season this past year. Williams himself said that he wasn't worried for Markov, and expected him to return to full form. (paraphrased from the JDM Justin Williams article when LA played Montreal this season)

It is Markov's first time with a donor transplant, which is more succesful than the graft transplants he had before.

You can sign Markov at 5 mil per season and still have plenty of space to sign a Ehrhoff type player who will take Hamrlik's cap space, so there is no added cap.
2 issues

Markov`s injuries are worse ...3 maybe 4 torn ACL`S Williams had 2 I believe plus he had a major cut

secondly Williams is a top 6 50-60 point player

Markov was a top 10 Dman in the league

who has a better chance of being the same player ....get serious here bro

Markov will never return to form ....not a chance he plays like the Markov of 2007-2008

if he comes back and plays 70% of old ....do you want him at stupid money ?

why pay a # 3 Dman if thats all he will be at best IMHO crazy money then at 35
he counts on the cap regardless

5 mil is stupid given his history plus we played well without him and we dont need him

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05-03-2011, 12:23 PM
  #69
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If I'm Pierre Gauthier right now I take down the information on how many games Markov actually played out of that contract and how many he didn't. How many important playoff games he missed.

Then I go to Markov and his agent and I say look, we gave you the benefit of the doubt all these times when you were injured constantly, kept coming back only to get re-injured. Our team struggled and had to trade away assets far more valuable than a couple million dollars in order to replace the void constantly being left by your injuries.

You got paid 22 million dollars for a lot of time you didn't even play. I understand he works hard even when injured by the way, but he has to give the team the benefit of the doubt too. We invested not only money but cap space in a guy who basically couldn't even play, has had many surgeries now and might never be the same. What's the big deal with signing a one year deal? If he feels he's ready and will perform, I don't get why he won't sign a one year deal. If he proves he's back to form and all that I'd definitely give him the 3-5 year plan after proving for a season that not only is he not made of glass but he's able to play at the same level.

People thinking a guy whose played a dozen games over 2-3 seasons is going to come back to form, to me, are just crazy. Sure it can happen, sure it's possible, but I wouldn't make a bet that's for sure. It's all a big giant question mark. If Markov and his agent can't see that then I'd gladly let him walk to Detroit for a 3-5 year deal. I don't think KHL is his only choice, many other teams will take the risk, teams needing to hit the cap bottom and such anyways, I just don't see PG giving Markov what he wants, 5.5 x 3.

PS: He didn't laugh in an insulting way, he laughed in a competitive way. As in "LOL, no way I'm from Russia and I play for my Country!"

If it were reversed do you think Stamkos would play for Russia? Come on now. You'd get the biggest LOL reaction from just about any player with that kind of question.
great post bro ...well put

I cant see PG paying him as well

as for Detroit ...Holland will never pay him that money for those years

you are talking about on the mots astute Gm`s in the buisness ....he will never risk it


Last edited by onemorecup*: 05-03-2011 at 12:24 PM. Reason: typing error
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05-03-2011, 12:27 PM
  #70
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Are you talking about Markov or Gomez?
markov was good

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05-03-2011, 12:28 PM
  #71
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great post bro ...well put

I cant see PG paying him as well

as for Detroit ...Holland will never pay him that money for those years

you are talking about on the mots astute Gm`s in the buisness ....he will never risk it
Of course he wouldn't, just used Detroit to make a point. Some team will give him what he wants whether it's here or the KHL, but it isn't going to be us, at least I doubt it. More than likely an expansion team who needs the cap dollars wasted on something anyways.

However if Markov and his agent become more reasonable, maybe we can work a deal out. I just don't see Gauthier giving him more than max a two year deal. Right now more than that is way too risky with how well our team is playing and how well the younger guys are developing. We might have a chance to win a cup soon and if Markov is eating 5.5 million dollars playing like a #4, or even worse, injured again and no assets available to replace him, we'd basically get screwed out of putting our team over the top.

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05-03-2011, 12:39 PM
  #72
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I believe Markov will be signed and retire a Hab. A 4 year deal at 4 to 4.5mil would be a fair contract.
The Habs offered 1 year, Markov's agent asked for 3. I really don't see the Habs offering more than 3.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if they included some kind of conditionnal extension to that contract half-way through depending on a medical test.

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05-03-2011, 01:06 PM
  #73
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Montreal should give Markov a similar contract that Pronger got .
Cap Hit: $4.921 million.
2010-11: $7.6 million.
2011-12: $7.6 million.
2012-13: $7.2 million.
2013-14: $7.0 million.
2014-15: $4.0 million.
2015-16: $525,000.
2016-17: $525,000.
2017-18: UFA
8
8
8
7
7
4
3
2
2
cap hit 5.45

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05-03-2011, 01:45 PM
  #74
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I'd tell Markov something like this:

You want 3 years? Well then definitely it has to be a bonus contract then, I thought of this and it could work.

3 years:

3 + 2.5 million in bonus
3 + 2.5 million in bonus
3 + 2.5 million in bonus

Bonus = If you actually play 60+ games and appear in more than 1 playoff series.

I don't see why he'd say no to that, if you don't play say because of injury it's off the books anyways, but then it isn't as tough a pill to swallow and if he does in fact get injure long term you're still okay.

Plus I don't know how a contract buyout works with bonuses but this could be pretty useful.

Markov if he really believes in himself, he would agree to this. If he's afraid he'd get injured again, well he still makes money and it's fair for everyone being that he doesn't get 5.5 for doing nothing, just 3.

Is it possible to make multiple bonuses even? 2 million for playing 60+ games heading into the post healthy, .5 million per round, that type of thing?

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05-03-2011, 02:07 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I'd tell Markov something like this:

You want 3 years? Well then definitely it has to be a bonus contract then, I thought of this and it could work.

3 years:

3 + 2.5 million in bonus
3 + 2.5 million in bonus
3 + 2.5 million in bonus

Bonus = If you actually play 60+ games and appear in more than 1 playoff series.

I don't see why he'd say no to that, if you don't play say because of injury it's off the books anyways, but then it isn't as tough a pill to swallow and if he does in fact get injure long term you're still okay.

Plus I don't know how a contract buyout works with bonuses but this could be pretty useful.

Markov if he really believes in himself, he would agree to this. If he's afraid he'd get injured again, well he still makes money and it's fair for everyone being that he doesn't get 5.5 for doing nothing, just 3.

Is it possible to make multiple bonuses even? 2 million for playing 60+ games heading into the post healthy, .5 million per round, that type of thing?
Bonus is for 35+ years old and rookie. Not 100% sure

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