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Old
05-04-2011, 09:25 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
How do you construct the rest of the D? With the d-men available to Gauthier this minute I'd rate them accordingly..............

Wiz: borderline top 4
Subban: top 4
Hamrlik: top 4
Spacek: 5/6
Weber: 5/6
Gorges: 5/6
Gill: 6/7
Mara: 5/6
Sopel: 5/6
Really? The way I see it,

Wiz: top 4
Subban: top 2
Hamrlik: 5 th
Spacek: 5/6
Weber: 5/6
Gorges: top 4
Gill: 5/6
Mara: 5/6
Sopel: 5/6

Out of those Mara and Sopel are most likely not coming back. And I would have to guess one of Gill or Hamrlik also.

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Old
05-04-2011, 09:36 AM
  #102
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So many Dr. Recchi's in this thread guaranteeing stuff...

Nobody knows what's going to happen with this guy so I have to disagree with the folks who are talking about 7 year deals here. Regardless of what some of the posters/doctors are saying in this thread, he is an injury risk. I said this a couple of years ago when I suggested that it might be time to deal him and the usual suspects went nuts here. Low and behold that knee was hurt again almost immediately. There's no way to know what's going to happen with that guy or how good he'll be. It's a big risk.

I have little doubt we'll re-sign him and I hope he's healthy. If he is, he and Subban would be great duo from on offensive standpoint if Markov comes back as good as he used to be (questionable.) But if we sign him for anywhere close to the 7 year deal that some are lobbying for in this thread we have nobody but ourselves to blame when that knee goes pop. Sign him to a short term contract, don't blow the bank. Hope that he's healthy and then re-up with him in a couple of years if he shows he's healthy and productive. If he demands 7 years let him walk.

Most likely scenario is a 3 or 4 year deal with him making 5-6 million. Personally, I see 4 years as a mistake but I hope I'm wrong. I hope we sign him and he's as good as ever and that knee never gets hurt again, but we've seen this movie before and it didn't end well the last time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
i don't know why anybody bothers replying to geeman, he's a negative nancy through and through

and the habs would have to be stupid to not sign him. you are living in a unicorn-filled, rainbow-colored world if you think "oh, we'll just get brewer, or bieska, or erhoff or o'brien"! first, none of them are as good as markov, and second, just because they are UFA doesn't mean they'll even become available. and that's not even talking about the teams these guys are playing for. like bieska or erhoff are not profiting from playing on the canucks....

look 'ma, a unicorn!
Fair enough but flip that around. Is it rainbows and unicorn thinking to assume that his knee is 100 percent and will never have those kinds of issues again? Moreover, he's getting older and hasn't played much over the last few years, how does that affect him?

Maybe he's fine and maybe he's better than ever but I hope it's not a long term deal that we saddle ourselves with only to be stuck with a guy who's injury prone and past his prime. Take the emotion out of it, assuming Marc Savard was an FA this year, how do you think the Bruins should deal with it? Great player, huge risk... what would you do? You'd probably sign him to a short term deal right? That's what makes the most sense. A one or two year deal would be ideal here.

You're right, we can't just let him walk but I really hope this is a short term deal (2 to 3 years at the most) that can keep him here. I hate the idea of 5 or 7 year deals with this guy. Huge mistake in my opinion and if that's what it takes to keep him then we should walk.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 05-04-2011 at 09:50 AM.
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Old
05-04-2011, 09:44 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Really? The way I see it,

Wiz: top 4
Subban: top 2
Hamrlik: 5 th
Spacek: 5/6
Weber: 5/6
Gorges: top 4
Gill: 5/6
Mara: 5/6
Sopel: 5/6

Out of those Mara and Sopel are most likely not coming back. And I would have to guess one of Gill or Hamrlik also.
On a typical to somewhat above average team based on value on ice and abilitiy to play important minutes.

Wisniewski: 3/4
Subban: 1/2
Hamerlik: 2/3
Gorges: 3/4
Spacek: 4/5 (this guy get heavily underated on this board)
Gill: 4-6
Mara: 6-7
Sopel: 6-7
Weber: 5-7

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:33 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
To be completely fair to Markov, Subban is probably the most mobile defenseman in the NHL (near the top for sure anyways), especially when it comes to rapid pivots in tight areas, obviously keeping his head up is giving him the ability to know when to do it.. Very few players can move the way he does, and Markov even in his youth was not any where near as dymanic with his skating, and he's a good skater.

Well...you know how to put it in words better than I do!!

It's funny 'cause...many still say that PK has a lot to learn from Markov. Then to be fair...Markov has a lot to learn from PK as well.

I don't expect Markov to move like PK, but at least he can try to move a little faster when going to the corner to get the puck...keep his head up and quickly look to see who is coming and getting ready to move from the body check (avoid it).

Many Hab fans want Markov signed but I'm so afraid for Markov everytime he goes into the corners to get the puck...in fact everytime he gets hit I have a heart-attack...this is not normal.
5 to 6mil/year for this?

Subban has 9 lives per game (they're always targeting him) but he's so darn good at doing many things at the same time (getting the puck, passing it, moving out of the way, sometimes he moves out of the way of 2 body-checkers).

Subban was supposed to be injured at least 15 to 20 times this season!! but he really knows how to take care of himself out there.

Markov and how to remove him from his game: hit him once or twice during a game...he'll eventually fall down.

Markov...ayayaye!! I see a lot of us Hab fans suffering with him (it's already been 2 long years...how many more?).
I just don't see him playing 40 games without getting seriously injured...and I really really hope I'm wrong.

What's even more scary?: not one Hab fan has defended Markov's playoff performances in the past... why? is it 'cause he has never delivered in the playoffs? (similar to Kaberle). I've already seen more from PK (heart/results/success) in 2010 and 2011 VS the entire playoff games' history by Markov. Maybe it's time to replace Markov with a Bieksa+O'Brien or a Brewer+O'Brien?

Again...I hope I'm wrong about Markov (especially if we sign him to a long deal). Really I do. I try to support every Hab player except the Theodores and the Ribeiros!! (couldn't stand them wearing the CH).

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:39 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
On a typical to somewhat above average team based on value on ice and abilitiy to play important minutes.

Wisniewski: 3/4
Subban: 1/2
Hamerlik: 2/3
Gorges: 3/4
Spacek: 4/5 (this guy get heavily underated on this board)Gill: 4-6
Mara: 6-7
Sopel: 6-7
Weber: 5-7
And rightfully so

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:53 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Well...you know how to put it in words better than I do!!

It's funny 'cause...many still say that PK has a lot to learn from Markov. Then to be fair...Markov has a lot to learn from PK as well.

I don't expect Markov to move like PK, but at least he can try to move a little faster when going to the corner to get the puck...keep his head up and quickly look to see who is coming and getting ready to move from the body check (avoid it).
Many Hab fans want Markov signed but I'm so afraid for Markov everytime he goes into the corners to get the puck...in fact everytime he gets hit I have a heart-attack...this is not normal.
5 to 6mil/year for this?

Subban has 9 lives per game (they're always targeting him) but he's so darn good at doing many things at the same time (getting the puck, passing it, moving out of the way, sometimes he moves out of the way of 2 body-checkers).

Subban was supposed to be injured at least 15 to 20 times this season!! but he really knows how to take care of himself out there.

Markov and how to remove him from his game: hit him once or twice during a game...he'll eventually fall down.

Markov...ayayaye!! I see a lot of us Hab fans suffering with him (it's already been 2 long years...how many more?).
I just don't see him playing 40 games without getting seriously injured...and I really really hope I'm wrong.

What's even more scary?: not one Hab fan has defended Markov's playoff performances in the past... why? is it 'cause he has never delivered in the playoffs? (similar to Kaberle). I've already seen more from PK (heart/results/success) in 2010 and 2011 VS the entire playoff games' history by Markov. Maybe it's time to replace Markov with a Bieksa+O'Brien or a Brewer+O'Brien?

Again...I hope I'm wrong about Markov (especially if we sign him to a long deal). Really I do. I try to support every Hab player except the Theodores and the Ribeiros!! (couldn't stand them wearing the CH).
Wow, talk about hyperbole...

He's gotten injured from being hit close to the boards/corner TWICE in his entire career...TWICE!

Ignore all the millions of times where he's gone into the boards/corner and came out unscathed and just focus on the two times where he did get hurt


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Old
05-04-2011, 10:54 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So many Dr. Recchi's in this thread guaranteeing stuff...

Nobody knows what's going to happen with this guy so I have to disagree with the folks who are talking about 7 year deals here. Regardless of what some of the posters/doctors are saying in this thread, he is an injury risk. I said this a couple of years ago when I suggested that it might be time to deal him and the usual suspects went nuts here. Low and behold that knee was hurt again almost immediately. There's no way to know what's going to happen with that guy or how good he'll be. It's a big risk.

I have little doubt we'll re-sign him and I hope he's healthy. If he is, he and Subban would be great duo from on offensive standpoint if Markov comes back as good as he used to be (questionable.) But if we sign him for anywhere close to the 7 year deal that some are lobbying for in this thread we have nobody but ourselves to blame when that knee goes pop. Sign him to a short term contract, don't blow the bank. Hope that he's healthy and then re-up with him in a couple of years if he shows he's healthy and productive. If he demands 7 years let him walk.

Most likely scenario is a 3 or 4 year deal with him making 5-6 million. Personally, I see 4 years as a mistake but I hope I'm wrong. I hope we sign him and he's as good as ever and that knee never gets hurt again, but we've seen this movie before and it didn't end well the last time.

Fair enough but flip that around. Is it rainbows and unicorn thinking to assume that his knee is 100 percent and will never have those kinds of issues again? Moreover, he's getting older and hasn't played much over the last few years, how does that affect him?

Maybe he's fine and maybe he's better than ever but I hope it's not a long term deal that we saddle ourselves with only to be stuck with a guy who's injury prone and past his prime. Take the emotion out of it, assuming Marc Savard was an FA this year, how do you think the Bruins should deal with it? Great player, huge risk... what would you do? You'd probably sign him to a short term deal right? That's what makes the most sense. A one or two year deal would be ideal here.

You're right, we can't just let him walk but I really hope this is a short term deal (2 to 3 years at the most) that can keep him here. I hate the idea of 5 or 7 year deals with this guy. Huge mistake in my opinion and if that's what it takes to keep him then we should walk.


thats all I said ...don`t be stupid PG with his contract and take the emotions out of it cause the chances are great that Markov`s best days are behind him already
and being stuck with another dumb contract is all we need at this point with the rest of the 5 mil + club who havent produced

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Old
05-04-2011, 11:06 AM
  #108
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thats all I said ...don`t be stupid PG with his contract and take the emotions out of it cause the chances are great that Markov`s best days are behind him already and being stuck with another dumb contract is all we need at this point with the rest of the 5 mil + club who havent produced
How are the chances 'great'? How do you know this?

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05-04-2011, 11:11 AM
  #109
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Well since it is not my money, I hope they risk it, and sign Markov.
Probably for what he made on his last contract, as if not for his injury he would have had a raise, term is the issue for now, and if the rumours from Tony Marianno are close to truth, we can expect maybe a 2-3 seasons contract, and I'd be fine with that.

Really doubt that Markov would bolt for the KHL, that would happen only if his return in the NHL was a failure.

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05-04-2011, 11:23 AM
  #110
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We, as fans, gave Saku Koivu the benefit of the doubt for YEARS while he was always injured.

Multiple knee injuries, groin injuries, abdominal injury, eye injury and of course, cancer...and as fans, we always gave him the benefit of the doubt and would of went nuts had management ever decided to not re-sign him during those years.

I think Markov deserves a bit more loyalty from the fanbase personally...I can't wait to see him back on the ice, i'm not concerned about his contract, it'll be worked out.

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05-04-2011, 11:33 AM
  #111
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I have no problem giving Markov $5.5 million but only for 1 year. After that, if hes still healthy and playing like the Markov we know, give him 4 more years at 6 million.

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05-04-2011, 11:36 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I doubt he went through all trouble in getting Canadian Citizenship to just bolt.
I see the Habs trying to get him a season at $5.5-6M. And then give him a retirement contract.

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05-04-2011, 11:41 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
How are the chances 'great'? How do you know this?
Common sense in the world of professional athletes imo. Barely play for 4 years due to injuries, similar injuries or even re-injuries.

A lot of players in many sports have trouble coming back to form after being out of the loop so long.

And no 7 games isn't in the loop.

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05-04-2011, 11:51 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Common sense in the world of professional athletes imo. Barely play for 4 years due to injuries, similar injuries or even re-injuries.

A lot of players in many sports have trouble coming back to form after being out of the loop so long.

And no 7 games isn't in the loop.
Where does this 4 years figure come from? He only played 7 games this year, and last year, played 45 games because of a freak injury involving his leg/foot getting cut by the skate blade of his teamate. Yes, he suffered another injury in the playoffs last year, but I don't kno where you get this 'barely played in 4 years'??

Again, until I see that Andrei Markov can't help the Habs...I think you give him the benefit of the doubt. What's even worse than risking trusting that his knee problems are behind him, is thinking he's done as a player...that's a far greater risk if you ask me

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05-04-2011, 12:30 PM
  #115
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Well...you know how to put it in words better than I do!!

It's funny 'cause...many still say that PK has a lot to learn from Markov. Then to be fair...Markov has a lot to learn from PK as well.

I don't expect Markov to move like PK, but at least he can try to move a little faster when going to the corner to get the puck...keep his head up and quickly look to see who is coming and getting ready to move from the body check (avoid it).

Many Hab fans want Markov signed but I'm so afraid for Markov everytime he goes into the corners to get the puck...in fact everytime he gets hit I have a heart-attack...this is not normal.
5 to 6mil/year for this?

Subban has 9 lives per game (they're always targeting him) but he's so darn good at doing many things at the same time (getting the puck, passing it, moving out of the way, sometimes he moves out of the way of 2 body-checkers).

Subban was supposed to be injured at least 15 to 20 times this season!! but he really knows how to take care of himself out there.

Markov and how to remove him from his game: hit him once or twice during a game...he'll eventually fall down.

Markov...ayayaye!! I see a lot of us Hab fans suffering with him (it's already been 2 long years...how many more?).
I just don't see him playing 40 games without getting seriously injured...and I really really hope I'm wrong.

What's even more scary?: not one Hab fan has defended Markov's playoff performances in the past... why? is it 'cause he has never delivered in the playoffs? (similar to Kaberle). I've already seen more from PK (heart/results/success) in 2010 and 2011 VS the entire playoff games' history by Markov. Maybe it's time to replace Markov with a Bieksa+O'Brien or a Brewer+O'Brien?

Again...I hope I'm wrong about Markov (especially if we sign him to a long deal). Really I do. I try to support every Hab player except the Theodores and the Ribeiros!! (couldn't stand them wearing the CH).
Markov was very durable for a long time. He doesn't play an overly physical style and so was able to avoid a lot of the kinds of injuries that other players are susceptible to.

Unfortunately though, that knee has been mashed up a few times. I don't think you need to be Dr. Recchi to know that it's a vulnerability that the team has to be aware of when they decide how much and for how long they want to sign him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
How are the chances 'great'? How do you know this?
He's older, hasn't played hockey in a while, has had major injuries to the same knee twice... How could you not know this? Be honest with yourself here, the guy is an injury risk.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't take that risk but ideally it comes with a short term contract. If it's a 7 year deal we shouldn't have anything to do with this.
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
I have no problem giving Markov $5.5 million but only for 1 year. After that, if hes still healthy and playing like the Markov we know, give him 4 more years at 6 million.
A one year contract would be ideal. No way Markov signs for this though. I'd be really shocked if he does. And if by some miracle he agrees, it would probably be for more than 5.5.

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05-04-2011, 01:10 PM
  #116
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Dr. Andrews' Success Rate

Interesting read on ACL reconstructive surgeries.

64 % success rate for Dr. Andrews between 2001 - 2006. Don't know exactly what to make of that stat because of the variables but if nothing else there is a bonafide risk I guess?

Where's Dr. Recchi when you need him?

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05-04-2011, 05:27 PM
  #117
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Well, this seems to make Fisher looks like a fool...

"Le clan Markov et Gauthier discuteront de contrat la fin du mois"
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...7_accueil_POS1

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05-04-2011, 11:03 PM
  #118
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Thats the problem with a lot of these journalists in MTL. They are totally out of the loop.

They love some players more than others and will always assume and hide stuff.

The stuff they hide is crazy

1) How Latendresse was out of shape and always eating mcdonalds
2) How Price was eating junk food in his 1st season and thats why he was out of shape.
3) How Price was partying way too much... While they only talked about the Kostitsyns
4) How Higgins had a lot of off ice issues but they only talked about the Kostitsyns
5) Gill & Gomez having some problems last year


On the real, the only one that will say stuff is Tony Marinaro and for the most part, i'll learn more here or on rds forums.

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05-05-2011, 12:31 AM
  #119
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The issue to me seems to be a combination of about 3 things:

1. How much do you trust the medical science involved in his surgery/rehab?

2. How much do you trust Markov's ability to bounce back from the injury?

3. How injury prone do you think Markov is?


As for #1, I have really no idea on how well this type of injury tends to recover, what I do know is that the Knee is probably the most integral part of the body for skating and mobility on skates. I like the sound of a 64% success rate that was stated for the Doctor doing the surgery but how is that constituted? Is it "The patient has recovered full mobility and strength after?" or is it "The patient can walk and doesn't need the surgery again." Markov's defensive game seems to built alot around a Lidstrom style "I get to the puck before you and make a pass that seems so easy but was actually really hard under pressure" That worries me on the mobility concerns from this type of injury.

On Markov's ability to bounce back, I think if you're going to pick any Canadien on the roster the last 5 years to bet on to recover, there's probably only one or two names that might be higher on Markov on that list. He seems to have the character required perhaps to overcome a deficiency that would arise from this type of injury, as well as the skillset and hockey sense. Give him a decent shut down guy and I think he's ready to go. (Gorges would probably be perfect for this about 2 years down the road.)

As for injury prone, he doesn't have that "I'm gonna be fit as a fiddle even if you run me over with a MAC truck" look or build to him but I'd bet on him rather than against him in the overall picture. 2 of his 3 recent injuries have been those freak accident style injuries and after having a spiral fracture in my leg (hockey play, I elbow dropped a midget.) in the past due to one I have experience in the matter. Markov seems to get a little beat up over time but that wouldn't bother me in the slightest that this type of injury would occur again unless specifically targeted by another team (which is a worry playoff time).

I think Montreal has to sign him because of the fact we really have no one to replace him with who can reasonably perform was he can at both ends of the ice. Plus remember people who made Komisarek look so good while he was in the Canadiens house, we have a potential blue-chip Defensive Dman coming up in Tinordi who could use a Markov. Also, he'd probably be a good person for Emelin to learn the ropes from should he leave Russia.

In the end, get him the 3 years and pay him the money I'd prefer something in the 4million range but I think we'll be looking at a similar style 5.25 million contract. If after those years its a bust, then at least you should the other players in the league the class of the organization. In no reality do I want to see a 1 year 7 million offer but lets be honest, someone in the league will offer him that for 2 years, he's just that good and the current UFA pool is just that lacking in players with talent for GM's to overspend on this year CBA or no.

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05-05-2011, 02:39 AM
  #120
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Recent Markov article from the best newspaper in Montreal!!:


http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...484/story.html




For those who think Markov will sign a 1yr contract!!...he will ask for $12 million if Habs insist on a 1 year!! (I could be wrong).

I hope the Habs management doesn't bend over for Markov and his agent's demands...

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05-05-2011, 06:06 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Common sense in the world of professional athletes imo. Barely play for 4 years due to injuries, similar injuries or even re-injuries.

A lot of players in many sports have trouble coming back to form after being out of the loop so long.

And no 7 games isn't in the loop.
The Wiz was also operated twice on a knee like Markov. Plenty other examples across the league where guys came back the same.

Its not the 80`s anymore. Surgery has progressed a lot.

Last news we got, Markov was rehabing very well and was in super shape.

He is 32, not 40!

Can't wait for Markov to come back and shove it in the face of the nay sayers like Price did this year.

Some Habs fans are just

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05-05-2011, 06:30 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Recent Markov article from the best newspaper in Montreal!!:


http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...484/story.html




For those who think Markov will sign a 1yr contract!!...he will ask for $12 million if Habs insist on a 1 year!! (I could be wrong).

I hope the Habs management doesn't bend over for Markov and his agent's demands...
Yes you are. Like he can ask for that haha

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05-05-2011, 06:56 AM
  #123
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I'm sure the Habs will do a lot of reasearch on the medical side of this, athletes and ACL reconstruction as well as getting an update on where Markov is. I think re-signing Markov will mean letting Wisniewski walk(reading between the lines). If you take health out of the equation, retaining Mrakov even at a very high cost would never be in question.

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05-05-2011, 07:31 AM
  #124
swimmer77
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
The Wiz was also operated twice on a knee like Markov. Plenty other examples across the league where guys came back the same.

Its not the 80`s anymore. Surgery has progressed a lot.

Last news we got, Markov was rehabing very well and was in super shape.

He is 32, not 40!

Can't wait for Markov to come back and shove it in the face of the nay sayers like Price did this year.

Some Habs fans are just
Not a naysayer - just being realistic and looking at the facts. The fact is he hasn't played a complete playoff run in three years. Fact is he's never matched his regular season play during the post season - that is when he has played.

I want him re-signed - just at a reasonable cost. As for the rehabbing very well and in super shape - I heard that before his last injury.

Just hope the team doesn't pin all of its hopes on Markov and jeopardize cap space.

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05-05-2011, 08:43 AM
  #125
MTL-rules
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Not a naysayer - just being realistic and looking at the facts. The fact is he hasn't played a complete playoff run in three years. Fact is he's never matched his regular season play during the post season - that is when he has played.

I want him re-signed - just at a reasonable cost. As for the rehabbing very well and in super shape - I heard that before his last injury.

Just hope the team doesn't pin all of its hopes on Markov and jeopardize cap space.
You want to worry about cap space, worry about Gomez... get rid of him and we'll all be fine.

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