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JvR's Effort and Game

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05-03-2011, 07:48 AM
  #1
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JvR's Effort and Game

Just to clarify this is more a statement about how JvR has raised his game and all the questions seemed to be answered, he is the real deal. BUT, for all those who want to bash me for knocking on Carter, that effort last night and in this playoffs is exactly what I have expected from Carter over the years. The ability to dominate a game with sheer effort and determination by using his skill, size, and skating to make things happen.

That is what I expect from a guy who is a goal scorer and game changer. That is why there is disappointment in the effort from Carter and why JvR should be considered a major piece of the Stanley Cup puzzle. THAT is why Jeff Carter is expendable to get a goalie who can win a game for this team. And That(no goalie) is why this team is down 2-0 in this series and the one thing that could hinder them from winning this season.


Last edited by Shameus: 05-03-2011 at 10:14 AM. Reason: It's not about you, it's about the discussion.
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05-03-2011, 08:13 AM
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JVR look like Oveshkin ! His a beast!

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05-03-2011, 08:33 AM
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As a bruins fan I've seen JVR play before obviously but last night... holy crap. He looked amazing out there and scared the **** out of me every time he touched the puck. He is certainly going to be a stud for you guys. Hopefully Tyler Seguin will take a few notes

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05-03-2011, 08:37 AM
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JVR look like Oveshkin ! His a beast!
Not going to take the bait on the Vs announcers, but he is certainly progressing the way the organization had hoped and we as fans expected. I saw him play for UNH a couple times and he could dominate games when he wanted to, that focus was the one concern I had about him, could he turn it up a notch at the next level. Well, the kid has certainly shown he can get it done with skating, driving the net, and using his size.

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05-03-2011, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Just to clarify this is more a statement about how JvR has raised his game and all the questions seemed to be answered, he is the real deal. BUT, for all those who want to bash me for knocking on Carter, that effort last night and in this playoffs is exactly what I have expected from Carter over the years. The ability to dominate a game with sheer effort and determination by using his skill, size, and skating to make things happen.

So for all who want to flame on me for knocking Carter, THAT is what I expect from a guy who is a goal scorer and game changer. THAT is why there is disappointment in the effort from Carter and why JvR should be considered a major piece of the Stanley Cup puzzle. THAT is why Jeff Carter is expendable to get a goalie who can win a game for this team. And THAT(no goalie) is why this team is down 2-0 in this series and the one thing that could hinder them from winning this season.
I agree 100%. Carter is talented, a smart player and a natural goal scorer. That's where it ends. He's so frustrating cause he lacks heart. Not to sound like Don Cherry but he plays like a Euro.

He has high trade value and with JVR playing the way he is, it's time to trade for a real goalie using a real number 1 liner like Carter. We could have had the cup last year with a real goalie, we could be playing way better this year wth a real goalie. I think we'll finally see something happen this offseason. I think even Ed Snider is sick of it.

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05-03-2011, 08:37 AM
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Don't see how you cap rip Carter here. TBH, I have not seen Richards elevate his game like that before, should we bash him as well?

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05-03-2011, 08:38 AM
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And Carter would be a huge help this series defensively to help matchup with there size.

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05-03-2011, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Just to clarify this is more a statement about how JvR has raised his game and all the questions seemed to be answered, he is the real deal. BUT, for all those who want to bash me for knocking on Carter, that effort last night and in this playoffs is exactly what I have expected from Carter over the years. The ability to dominate a game with sheer effort and determination by using his skill, size, and skating to make things happen.

So for all who want to flame on me for knocking Carter, THAT is what I expect from a guy who is a goal scorer and game changer. THAT is why there is disappointment in the effort from Carter and why JvR should be considered a major piece of the Stanley Cup puzzle. THAT is why Jeff Carter is expendable to get a goalie who can win a game for this team. And THAT(no goalie) is why this team is down 2-0 in this series and the one thing that could hinder them from winning this season.
So realistically, with Carter's 11 year contract, do you think there are any teams that would trade for him that would result in us getting a goalie in return or giving us great draft picks and cap space to sign a goalie?

Not fighting you, I'm just curious.

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05-03-2011, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Slapshot18 View Post
As a bruins fan I've seen JVR play before obviously but last night... holy crap. He looked amazing out there and scared the **** out of me every time he touched the puck. He is certainly going to be a stud for you guys. Hopefully Tyler Seguin will take a few notes
Problem is Bruins fans expect Seguin to come in and contribute right away, I think Julien is doing the right thing with him at this point. Fans get spoiled with the lottery draft picks because in this era you need to develop players from within to help for the future and keep them in cap-friendly deals.

Thing is not all of them turn out how you expect, plenty of busts in the draft. Seguin has the tools, he just need to get a bigger frame on him, and keep working each summer to work on the little things. JvR spent last summer working on his skating up in Conn. , we are now witnessing the result of the hard work. Some of the core vets on the Flyers should take some notes, it is not all about the party on the Isle, but being focused on working on the weaknesses of the game which make fans appreciate the player.

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05-03-2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Problem is Bruins fans expect Seguin to come in and contribute right away, I think Julien is doing the right thing with him at this point. Fans get spoiled with the lottery draft picks because in this era you need to develop players from within to help for the future and keep them in cap-friendly deals.

Thing is not all of them turn out how you expect, plenty of busts in the draft. Seguin has the tools, he just need to get a bigger frame on him, and keep working each summer to work on the little things. JvR spent last summer working on his skating up in Conn. , we are now witnessing the result of the hard work. Some of the core vets on the Flyers should take some notes, it is not all about the party on the Isle, but being focused on working on the weaknesses of the game which make fans appreciate the player.
You just can't make any single solitary post without throwing **** on certain players, can you? You're ****ing unbelievable.

And quite frankly, the Bruins were stupid to keep Seguin in the NHL this year. No matter how attentive he is to the game, eating popcorn is not going to help Seguin's development. I love the kid's game and I hope they didn't **** him up this year.

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05-03-2011, 09:19 AM
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It's fun watching JVR blossom just like Giroux last year. This is why it is always important to make the playoffs no matter what. The experience is invaluable especially when you make the most of it like JVR is doing.

I agree about Carter..the year he scored his 40 goals he was a very noticeable player on the ice with his speed and "bearing down" like JVR is doing. The year before my friend was ripping on Carter and I was defending him b/c I saw all the tools he had and then he put it all together in that 40 goal year. He still has all the tools but I do question his resolve come playoff time. I also question his added value come playoffs since he's either been hurt (not his fault) or just average when he's actually played. Again with Carter it has nothing to do with his talent but it's more his drive to work through adversity without getting "frustrated."

No question Carter is valuable to the team....guy consistently scores 30+ goals in the regular season. However, I do not consider him invaluable to the team. He's an asset that can and should be leveraged for other needs..namely a legit starting goalie who can play 60 games and steal games on his own come playoffs. Having said this I don't see Carter being used as leverage. Holmgren's philosophy is having depth down the middle (even though Carter has played wing) and since Holmgren is a stubborn MOFO as we are seeing with the goaltending...it is unlikely Carter gets moved until it's too late and his contract is viewed as onerous given the length and clauses. The Cap hit is palatable no doubt but I can't see Carter playing in Philly another 10 years. Ten years of arguing about his worth would be torture enough...

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05-03-2011, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
It's fun watching JVR blossom just like Giroux last year. This is why it is always important to make the playoffs no matter what. The experience is invaluable especially when you make the most of it like JVR is doing.

I agree about Carter..the year he scored his 40 goals he was a very noticeable player on the ice with his speed and "bearing down" like JVR is doing. The year before my friend was ripping on Carter and I was defending him b/c I saw all the tools he had and then he put it all together in that 40 goal year. He still has all the tools but I do question his resolve come playoff time. I also question his added value come playoffs since he's either been hurt (not his fault) or just average when he's actually played. Again with Carter it has nothing to do with his talent but it's more his drive to work through adversity without getting "frustrated."

No question Carter is valuable to the team....guy consistently scores 30+ goals in the regular season. However, I do not consider him invaluable to the team. He's an asset that can and should be leveraged for other needs..namely a legit starting goalie who can play 60 games and steal games on his own come playoffs. Having said this I don't see Carter being used as leverage. Holmgren's philosophy is having depth down the middle (even though Carter has played wing) and since Holmgren is a stubborn MOFO as we are seeing with the goaltending...it is unlikely Carter gets moved until it's too late and his contract is viewed as onerous given the length and clauses. The Cap hit is palatable no doubt but I can't see Carter playing in Philly another 10 years. Ten years of arguing about his worth would be torture enough...
If Carter is gone, you realize that the Flyers' biggest centre is now Richards, right?

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05-03-2011, 09:22 AM
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If Carter is gone, you realize that the Flyers' biggest centre is now Richards, right?
You do realize you can make other moves right?

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05-03-2011, 09:36 AM
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It's amazing to me how you can create a thread about JvR and within a couple of lines turn it into yet another Carter bashfest. You do realize how weak our forwards are defensively without him? And that our 3 centres excluding Betts are 5'11 and under? If anything, Carter needs to be put back at centre once he's able to play because Giroux, Briere, leino, Zherdev and Hartnell are just not good defensively, in fact they're putrid a lot of the time. JvR had a phenomenal game on a very emotional night. If he can sustain it to a degree he's going to be a beast. He's playing smart, aggressive hockey without taking penalties and his speed in the offensive zone is incredible. Everyone has been hoping to see him play this way consistently and while I don't think anyone can play that well night after night, it should give him a ton of confidence. He's also going to be checked a lot more now that teams have seen how good he can be, something that Carter, Giroux, Richards and Briere already deal with because they're proven players. The great thing is, when healthy, that kind of depth will free up one line or another on any given night to free wheel while the others are being targetted.

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05-03-2011, 09:37 AM
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You do realize you can make other moves right?
It's not really that easy. Trading Carter isn't going to net you another Carter AND a goaltender.

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05-03-2011, 09:45 AM
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It's not really that easy. Trading Carter isn't going to net you another Carter AND a goaltender.
Exactly. 6'3" centres with wicked wrist shots, defensive awareness, and an ability to hold their liquor don't just grow on trees.

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05-03-2011, 09:46 AM
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You just can't make any single solitary post without throwing **** on certain players, can you? You're ****ing unbelievable.

And quite frankly, the Bruins were stupid to keep Seguin in the NHL this year. No matter how attentive he is to the game, eating popcorn is not going to help Seguin's development. I love the kid's game and I hope they didn't **** him up this year.
Please explain to me what is wrong with the point of view I gave? Did you like what you saw from JvR?

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05-03-2011, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It's not really that easy. Trading Carter isn't going to net you another Carter AND a goaltender.
Never said it was. With Holmgren as GM ..no it's not easy since he's not exactly the type of GM that can think three steps ahead. Also it's not about getting another Carter and a bonifide goaltender it's about more balance. If Carter is going to be mainly valued for size and defensiveness (valid) when really his main value/role as he even has stated is to score then you can look for a Handzus type center at a lower cost. I don't know what the free agency pool is going to look like but if we had a creative GM he could leverage Carter in the right way.

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05-03-2011, 09:48 AM
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If he'd done it five weeks ago we'd be playing the Bolts.

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05-03-2011, 09:50 AM
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If Carter is gone, you realize that the Flyers' biggest centre is now Richards, right?
What center on the Bruins is a "big" center? Size is overrated unless you actually use it, when you have guys who know their roles and raise their games. This is exactly the point of JvR, he is taking the game to the next level. Why is it so hard to grasp?

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05-03-2011, 09:50 AM
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It's amazing to me how you can create a thread about JvR and within a couple of lines turn it into yet another Carter bashfest.
Frankly it's amazing how any discussion of Carter is automatically equated as hate and a bash. Seriously, not everything is black and white in the world.

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05-03-2011, 09:52 AM
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Exactly. 6'3" centres with wicked wrist shots, defensive awareness, and an ability to hold their liquor don't just grow on trees.
Why do you so blindly defend the playoff play of Carter and not recognize the achievement of players like JvR and Giroux? Guys who have stepped up their games, they are noticeable on the ice and on the scoring sheet. I said it before, the playoffs is when you need the best players to be the best players on the ice.

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05-03-2011, 09:52 AM
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Please explain to me what is wrong with the point of view I gave? Did you like what you saw from JvR?
What's wrong about it is you still managed to tie it in with Carter and make it a thread instead of just a post. It doesn't need to be a thread. Everyone gets it, you expect more out of Carter. But you still try to mix oil and water by combining your coarse opinion of Carter with everything, totally detracting from things like how ****ing dirty JVR was last night.

This place becomes real tense this time of year, can't you just give it a break?

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05-03-2011, 09:54 AM
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Don't see how you cap rip Carter here. TBH, I have not seen Richards elevate his game like that before, should we bash him as well?
Richards has shown up in the post-season, even last night I will give him some props, but he needs to put the puck in the net. Find a way and keep it simple, he overcomplicates things at times and attempts the low percentage pass or shot instead of doing what JvR is doing right now....drive the net and CREATE YOU OWN CHANCES.

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05-03-2011, 09:56 AM
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Frankly it's amazing how any discussion of Carter is automatically equated as hate and a bash. Seriously, not everything is black and white in the world.
Cartsiephan hates Carter. You don't talk about trading a player with delusional critiques (and,yes, the majority of his critiques are delusional and display a complete lack of perspective) for players you don't hate. Look to the messenger, he has worked very hard on his shtick.

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