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Toronto - Pittsburgh

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Old
05-03-2011, 02:45 PM
  #26
Ivan13
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Stall isn't a good fit in Toronto, because their primary need is a playmaking center to go with Kessel

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Old
05-03-2011, 02:47 PM
  #27
Drew311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
To Toronto:
Jordan Staal
1st round pick


To Pittsburgh:
Nikolai Kulemin
Nazem Kadri

Toronto gets there number one center and yet another first rounder in this years draft.

Pittsburgh gets a solid winger for Malkin and a top prospect
If Kulemin and Kadri are going to the Pens, they better be in a package for Malkin. Not a chance the Leafs give up that much for a second line centre and a pick that will take 1 - 3 years to make any contribution (if any).

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Old
05-03-2011, 03:26 PM
  #28
UnderratedBrooks44
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I think a Staal for Kulemin foundation for a deal is very interesting. Kadri for a late 1st is not fair though.

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Old
05-03-2011, 03:26 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
2 years would be a mistake, he's a perimeter player who doesn't go into the dirty areas to try and protect himself from getting injured again.
That's really not a major problem -- that should be the winger's job anyways. The last thing you want is the centre getting caught up ice when your winger is as useless in the defensive zone as Kessel is.

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05-03-2011, 03:32 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
That's really not a major problem -- that should be the winger's job anyways. The last thing you want is the centre getting caught up ice when your winger is as useless in the defensive zone as Kessel is.
Kessel doesn't exactly do the mucking and grinding either.

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Old
05-03-2011, 03:56 PM
  #31
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Leafs pass sign Richards who's better then Staal.

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05-03-2011, 04:09 PM
  #32
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I'd trade staal for kulemin in a hearbeat assuming staalkin is not in the organization's plans. Malkin-Kulemin would be money and as they're both young and the Pens aren't flirting with the cap anymore, they can be money for years to come. Also will put all the malkin trade rumors to rest as he'll finally get his talented winger and earn his cap hit once again.

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neal-malkin-kulemin
cooke-don't matter-don't matter
don't matter-don't matter-craig adams

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Old
05-03-2011, 04:39 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Leafs pass sign Richards who's better then Staal.
I'm sure it will be that easy.

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Old
05-03-2011, 04:43 PM
  #34
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we all know now jordan staal is not a number one Center, no ****** way

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Old
05-04-2011, 08:54 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
we all know now jordan staal is not a number one Center, no ****** way
I think some people miss the point that Staal had the same lack of quality wingers just like Malkin and Crosby have. Staal isn't on the same level that the top two Centers on his team are...... So how in the world can he come back after multiple injuries this past season jump into the number one roll and be the "Tim Conolley 80+ point guy" while not having the top line support everyone see's the Pen's looking for. Toronto may not have the pefect situation for a Staal Kessel combo but with Phil shooting like a mad man and Staal going to the next hard they would be exciting to watch and far more defensively responsible.

It's not that far fetched......

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Old
05-04-2011, 09:10 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
To Toronto:
Jordan Staal
1st round pick


To Pittsburgh:
Nikolai Kulemin
Nazem Kadri

Toronto gets there number one center and yet another first rounder in this years draft.

Pittsburgh gets a solid winger for Malkin and a top prospect

our we could keep our 24 year old 30 goal scoring winger

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:18 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
That's my thought about why he'd be worth getting. He's got size and would be better than Bozak, even if he's not quite what we need.

Problem is we'd have to wayy overpay to get him out of Pittsburgh, which seems silly seeing as Joe colborne might turn out to be exactly what we need.
Thanks, i was just going to type the same thing. Colborne has the size, and looks like he might have the hands and some grit to go along. I'm not at all interested in shopping Kuli. with his contract and style fitting perfectly here.

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:21 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
I think some people miss the point that Staal had the same lack of quality wingers just like Malkin and Crosby have. Staal isn't on the same level that the top two Centers on his team are...... So how in the world can he come back after multiple injuries this past season jump into the number one roll and be the "Tim Conolley 80+ point guy" while not having the top line support everyone see's the Pen's looking for. Toronto may not have the pefect situation for a Staal Kessel combo but with Phil shooting like a mad man and Staal going to the next hard they would be exciting to watch and far more defensively responsible.

It's not that far fetched......
Ok...but if you are going to trade a 24 year old scoring 2 way player who plays with some toughness AND our #1 prospect, how about we look for a #1C instead of a #2??

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:30 AM
  #39
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
I'm sure it will be that easy.
Of course not, but it's a better avenue to approach, only costs money (which the Leafs have) and we get to keep our young talent. We could also consider a trade for Weiss, not a great option, but probably cheaper. Or, we give Kadri and Colborne a shot. Lets face it, Richards makes us MUCH better, every other option makes us a little better maybe. And in the case of making a trade, we would be giving up talent we can't afford to give.So...better to go UFA signing, or hold the status quo.

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Old
05-04-2011, 11:21 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
I think some people miss the point that Staal had the same lack of quality wingers just like Malkin and Crosby have. Staal isn't on the same level that the top two Centers on his team are...... So how in the world can he come back after multiple injuries this past season jump into the number one roll and be the "Tim Conolley 80+ point guy" while not having the top line support everyone see's the Pen's looking for. Toronto may not have the pefect situation for a Staal Kessel combo but with Phil shooting like a mad man and Staal going to the next hard they would be exciting to watch and far more defensively responsible.

It's not that far fetched......
he played with neal and kovalev and still did not do **** you can keep staal

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Old
05-04-2011, 12:33 PM
  #41
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Staal wouldnt be as terrible a fit as many say. He is big, defensively aware, and crashes the net. All three things our first line is missing. Kessel also has very underrated playmaking abilities (he never gets to use them as he plays with stajan/bozak/crabb ilk players).. But I am not willing to part with kulemin and kadri for staal. Staal is better than kulemin by a tiny bit but Kadri>>>late first.

Kadri is not amazing right now but he has flashes of pure brilliance. he lost most of his speed this summer (was rated 3rd fastest skater in the OHL after hall and i dont know who..) due to weight training and to make it worse he seems to have put weight in the wrong places as he is still weak on the ice. He was also terrible on the boards and defensively but this kid is a winner (not the humbe kind, the pr**k kind, but a winner nonetheless) and has practised hard to improve in his strength, speed, defensive awareness and board play. I was actually quite taken aback at his improvement. Kind of reminds me of subban in his attitude and in the calibre player he will be in the future. We will start seeing his potential as soon as next year and hopefully he breaks out completely in the playoffs (his record shows he elevates his game then)

I see 70+ point scoring winger/center with gritty qualities.

Would you be willing to do something around colborne++? A staal replacement on the 3rd line but you save about 4 mil in cap which may help when you have to resign other big players...

like... Colborne +Bos 1st +Macarthur/gardiner


Last edited by Beleafer4: 05-04-2011 at 12:44 PM.
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Old
05-04-2011, 12:51 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post

Would you be willing to do something around colborne++? A staal replacement on the 3rd line but you save about 4 mil in cap which may help when you have to resign other big players...

like... Colborne +Bos 1st +Macarthur/gardiner


I don't see Pittsburgh moving Staal for much of anything. If they identified a need for a winger such as Kulemin then I'd imagine with some tweaking the idea of Kulemin for Staal isn't a bad one.

But with a ppg clip of .71 this year, a big improvement on his last 2 years, I think Pittsburgh would, if ever, only move him for immediate help - ie. Kulemin.

I still think that we'd need to add on Kulemin to get Staal, but I doubt it would be much more. I think that's where the OP was adding in Kadri for their 1st this year. The difference in Kadri vs that 1st round pick's player value is too large to consider the original proposal.

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Old
05-04-2011, 01:07 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
I don't see Pittsburgh moving Staal for much of anything. If they identified a need for a winger such as Kulemin then I'd imagine with some tweaking the idea of Kulemin for Staal isn't a bad one.

But with a ppg clip of .71 this year, a big improvement on his last 2 years, I think Pittsburgh would, if ever, only move him for immediate help - ie. Kulemin.

I still think that we'd need to add on Kulemin to get Staal, but I doubt it would be much more. I think that's where the OP was adding in Kadri for their 1st this year. The difference in Kadri vs that 1st round pick's player value is too large to consider the original proposal.
Thank you!

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Old
05-04-2011, 04:31 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
Thank you!
Doesn't matter if its fair value of players, its what these players can bring to the opposing team. As great as Staal would be, he does not fulling fill one of our holes but losing Kuli does so create a new hole in our line-up.

For that reason, nothing to even do with Kadri and the 1st. I would decline...but I am
not an NHL GM, with a pro scouting team.

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Old
05-04-2011, 04:41 PM
  #45
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Kessel doesn't exactly do the mucking and grinding either.
No he doesns't, that's why there's 2 wingers on every line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
I think some people miss the point that Staal had the same lack of quality wingers just like Malkin and Crosby have. Staal isn't on the same level that the top two Centers on his team are...... So how in the world can he come back after multiple injuries this past season jump into the number one roll and be the "Tim Conolley 80+ point guy" while not having the top line support everyone see's the Pen's looking for. Toronto may not have the pefect situation for a Staal Kessel combo but with Phil shooting like a mad man and Staal going to the next hard they would be exciting to watch and far more defensively responsible.

It's not that far fetched......
The problem with Staal is that he hasn't shown the ability to compliment skilled players. He's always produced with grinders, which is valuable in itself, but not to Toronto. They need a guy who's going to be the set-up man for a skilled player (Kessel), and Jordan Staal just can't be relied upon to do that. His puck distribution skills are very lacklustre, and with him being relied upon to do the dirty work, that line will be a problem defensively because it'll have to be Lupul / Kessel being the first ones back. Maybe if the Leafs had an Ales Hemsky-type winger it would work, but that's just not reality.

Tim Connolly obviously wouldn't produce in a 3rd line role anywhere near what Staal would, but that doesn't matter because we're not looking for a guy to slot in as 3rd line C.

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Old
05-04-2011, 06:36 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
To Toronto:
Jordan Staal
1st round pick


To Pittsburgh:
Nikolai Kulemin
Nazem Kadri

Toronto gets there number one center and yet another first rounder in this years draft.

Pittsburgh gets a solid winger for Malkin and a top prospect
leafs lose this trade. pass

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Old
05-04-2011, 06:52 PM
  #47
wej20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
he played with neal and kovalev and still did not do **** you can keep staal
If you'd watched the games you'd know Staal played with Kunitz and Kennedy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
No he doesns't, that's why there's 2 wingers on every line.
Isn't Lupul the other winger on that line? not exactly a mucker.

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Old
05-04-2011, 07:18 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
If you'd watched the games you'd know Staal played with Kunitz and Kennedy.



Isn't Lupul the other winger on that line? not exactly a mucker.
He has been way gritty than any of us expected but not exactly a prototypical power forward.

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Old
05-04-2011, 07:48 PM
  #49
100angryvikings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
To Toronto:
Jordan Staal
1st round pick


To Pittsburgh:
Nikolai Kulemin
Nazem Kadri

Toronto gets there number one center and yet another first rounder in this years draft.

Pittsburgh gets a solid winger for Malkin and a top prospect
This is my first post on these boards as a longtime lurker, but I have to respectfully disagree. Staal hasnt displayed nearly enough offensive upside to show that he could be a number one (unless we're talking about Eric).

Personally, I dont feel Staal would be worth Kulemin straight up, at least not in terms of team needs. Kulemin is a 30 goal, two way forward who might even have more potential left to reach. Staal, while an excellent defensive forward, doesnt have the offensive ability to center a top line, so would not fill that big hole in our lineup.

Of course, I dont need to mention the inbalance between Nazem Kadri and Pittsburgh's first. Its already been pointed out numerous times. This deal is just too one-sided for Pittsburgh.

Now if you want to enter discussions for Malkin on the other hand....

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Old
05-04-2011, 10:32 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
Dunno why you wouldn't do it, this trade is a steal for the Pens. Leafs would be stupid to do it.
Maybe because Jordan Staal at age 18 outproduced Nikolai Kulemin at any age until this year?

Maybe it's because an injury plagued Staal would have outproduced Kulemin in an 82 game pace while dealing with injuries?

Staal has been playing low line minutes his whole career and still outproduces Kulemin and is two years younger, not to mention an elite defensive forward.

How is that a steal exactly?

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