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Trade Proposal: Satan to Colorado

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Old
07-14-2004, 03:10 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
I think a lot of you don't see what I see in Sauer. I think he'd be a really nice addition to Buffalo. A young, steady defenseman who doesn't make many mistakes. Perhaps I like Sauer more than some others. He didn't have a great year last year, but his play with the Ducks in the 2003 playoff run I think was impressive enough for him to be getting more ice time than he will get in Colorado next season.
I certainly do not see anything at all in Kurt Sauer other than a big, poor skating, marginally-talented defenseman. Of course he "stays at home" he is too unskilled to even consider jumping up offensively.

If by some miracle the Avs could trade him for anything of quality, much less a true star like Satan, it would be the steal of the decade.

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07-14-2004, 03:16 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisBaker
He (Sauer) would be a viable centerpiece if it means unloading Satan's salary, thus having more leeway to re-up with Zhitnik. Buffalo has a cluster of young forwards (youngest club in the league), and currently risks losing one or two in the waiver draft. This move would ease the logjam, and fortify their D ranks. Old school James Patrick and often irresponsible Brian Campbell were rotating as the #6 guy on the blueline last season. Sauer would be a welcome addition to the Sabres, imo.
Quiet you...

 
Old
07-14-2004, 03:38 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Reasoning: Satan is Satan but he is also a close friend of Ziggy Palffy's and both are Slovaks who are interested in playing with another.
You are aware that Rob Blake utterly loathes Zigmund Palffy, right?

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07-14-2004, 03:46 PM
  #54
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Satan has nowhere to go.

No offensive winger with a significant salary is moving as long as there are still free agents like Kovalev, Palffy, Murray and Kariya available.

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07-14-2004, 07:05 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Considering Josef Balef and Brooks Laich and a 2nd brought back similar players, I don't see why not. You can argue they were rentals, but it's not like Satan is cheap to pay either.
exactly, imo the fans pooing on this deal might be disappointed with what satan could actually bring back, unless of course he signs a 4 yr deal at a reduced rate

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07-14-2004, 07:21 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisBaker
He (Sauer) would be a viable centerpiece if it means unloading Satan's salary, thus having more leeway to re-up with Zhitnik. Buffalo has a cluster of young forwards (youngest club in the league), and currently risks losing one or two in the waiver draft. This move would ease the logjam, and fortify their D ranks. Old school James Patrick and often irresponsible Brian Campbell were rotating as the #6 guy on the blueline last season. Sauer would be a welcome addition to the Sabres, imo.
Yep, this is how I saw it.

In regards to the Sabres not having to unload Satan..

Yes, that's true they don't have to. But they'd sure like to. $5+ million locked up in a player that, while very skilled, has yet to truely lead that team is quite bothersome I'm sure to many a Sabres fan. With the depth on Right Wing (Afinogenov playing on the 3rd line for instance), and Briere's addition, one could argue they really do not need Satan anymore. So why not see if they could move him to A) Free up some salary to resign Zhitnik, and B) Acquire a nice young defenseman who can fit in ahead of Patrick and Campbell.

Not only that, but I see it as a win-win scenario, as Satan would surely bolster the Avs top 6 from what it is right now. In fact, with Satan and then a 2nd line centre (or Forsberg), then throw in Svatos or Konowalchuk, and you've got a pretty darn great second line.

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07-14-2004, 07:28 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man
You are aware that Rob Blake utterly loathes Zigmund Palffy, right?
I was not aware of that, but in any case, what does that have to do with this topic?

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07-14-2004, 08:47 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bling
I was not aware of that, but in any case, what does that have to do with this topic?
Read the post that I quoted.

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07-14-2004, 08:53 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man
Read the post that I quoted.
"Reasoning: Satan is Satan but he is also a close friend of Ziggy Palffy's and both are Slovaks who are interested in playing with another."

Okay so that post talks about Ziggy and Miro purportedly being friends. So you are saying that Miro Satan would not want to come to Colorado and play with Rob Blake because Blake does not like his supposed friend Ziggy? Quite a stretch.....

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07-14-2004, 09:00 PM
  #60
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no, a few posts earlier someone said palffy and satan to colorado, and even made a lines chart with svatos at center ...

that's where this came from

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07-14-2004, 09:27 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau
This is PL we're talking about. He's as bad as Sather at keeping youth, the only difference is PL gets into the playoffs with who he gets.

I don't think Buffalo and Colorado make good partners at all. I think two teams would be willing to add Satan under certain circumstances. One is Detroit and the other is Vancouver.
Don't think Detroit could afford him. They've said they only want a payroll around $60m-$65m next year and they are almost there.

What would it cost the Wings? Datsyuk? Zetterberg? Datsyuk put up more points than Satan and both will make half or less of Satan makes next season.

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07-14-2004, 09:32 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadoz19
Don't think Detroit could afford him. They've said they only want a payroll around $60m-$65m next year and they are almost there.

What would it cost the Wings? Datsyuk? Zetterberg? Datsyuk put up more points than Satan and both will make half or less of Satan makes next season.
In a perfect world, the Sabres would be able to raid the Wings' youth like Williams and Kronwall.

I would imagine the chances of that happening are.....not so good. The free spending days seem to be a thing of the past, even for Detroit.

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07-14-2004, 09:34 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisBaker
In a perfect world, the Sabres would be able to raid the Wings' youth like Williams and Kronwall.

I would imagine the chances of that happening are.....not so good. The free spending days seem to be a thing of the past, even for Detroit.
yeah...

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07-14-2004, 09:59 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Thompson
Yep, this is how I saw it.

In regards to the Sabres not having to unload Satan..

Yes, that's true they don't have to. But they'd sure like to. $5+ million locked up in a player that, while very skilled, has yet to truely lead that team is quite bothersome I'm sure to many a Sabres fan. With the depth on Right Wing (Afinogenov playing on the 3rd line for instance), and Briere's addition, one could argue they really do not need Satan anymore. So why not see if they could move him to A) Free up some salary to resign Zhitnik, and B) Acquire a nice young defenseman who can fit in ahead of Patrick and Campbell.

Not only that, but I see it as a win-win scenario, as Satan would surely bolster the Avs top 6 from what it is right now. In fact, with Satan and then a 2nd line centre (or Forsberg), then throw in Svatos or Konowalchuk, and you've got a pretty darn great second line.

I've worked the math a few times, and posted this at another site.

Assume Satan scores more than 29 goals next hockey season which he will due because it's a contract year. Let's put him down for 35.

Chris Drury as overrated as me and you think, will probably score more than 18 goals. 22-25 seems about right.

Jochen Hecht will hopefully not get chapshotted into the boards in pre-season. Even if he doesn't he will score more than 15 goals (don't laugh but I think he could be top 15 in scoring next year).

Ales Kotalik, Afinogenov, or Dumont should all get more goals due to getting more ice time.

Taylor Quiet will score more than 8 goals. Why? Because if he slumps too begin the season, Thomas vanek will have his job.

Derek Roy should score more points as he gets more experience.

Henrik Tallinder can only go up from last season's 1g-9a effort.

HOPEFULLY Eric Boulton will be playing in the ECHL, a cripple will put up more points than him (and Paille, or Gaustad or whoever is leaps better than cripple). HOPEFULLY Brian Campbell is Boulton's teammate in the ECHL, Jillson will put up better numbers than Campbell did (3g-8a).

That should at least get back Satan's 29g from last season. A season in which Buffalo was still 5th in scoring in the East.


Satan IMO is not important to the Sabres. They are building a Nashville type team, I don't see where a player like Satan fits into that. At least not at his salary.

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07-14-2004, 10:05 PM
  #65
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[QUOTE=Hasbro]Hey DRL you just made your 666th post in THIS topic.



it's a sign, satan is coming to colorado!!!!

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07-14-2004, 10:08 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moskau
I've worked the math a few times, and posted this at another site.

Assume Satan scores more than 29 goals next hockey season which he will due because it's a contract year. Let's put him down for 35.

Chris Drury as overrated as me and you think, will probably score more than 18 goals. 22-25 seems about right.

Jochen Hecht will hopefully not get chapshotted into the boards in pre-season. Even if he doesn't he will score more than 15 goals (don't laugh but I think he could be top 15 in scoring next year).

Ales Kotalik, Afinogenov, or Dumont should all get more goals due to getting more ice time.

Taylor Quiet will score more than 8 goals. Why? Because if he slumps too begin the season, Thomas vanek will have his job.

Derek Roy should score more points as he gets more experience.

Henrik Tallinder can only go up from last season's 1g-9a effort.

HOPEFULLY Eric Boulton will be playing in the ECHL, a cripple will put up more points than him (and Paille, or Gaustad or whoever is leaps better than cripple). HOPEFULLY Brian Campbell is Boulton's teammate in the ECHL, Jillson will put up better numbers than Campbell did (3g-8a).

That should at least get back Satan's 29g from last season. A season in which Buffalo was still 5th in scoring in the East.


Satan IMO is not important to the Sabres. They are building a Nashville type team, I don't see where a player like Satan fits into that. At least not at his salary.
I agree with most of the logic. If Drury's production is upped, I would think that Grier's could be, too. I didn't laugh at the Hecht speculation, but I do question him being in the top 15. At any rate, good job. It makes sense to me. Many of the Satan apologists on Sfans and the Sabres board here at HF will react differently probably, but I'll stick to my guns about needing to move the salary.

I'm still with Sauer and Phoenix's #2. Is this a final verdict from the Avs jury?

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07-14-2004, 10:30 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisBaker
I agree with most of the logic. If Drury's production is upped, I would think that Grier's could be, too. I didn't laugh at the Hecht speculation, but I do question him being in the top 15. At any rate, good job. It makes sense to me. Many of the Satan apologists on Sfans and the Sabres board here at HF will react differently probably, but I'll stick to my guns about needing to move the salary.

I'm still with Sauer and Phoenix's #2. Is this a final verdict from the Avs jury?
You had me at Sauer for anybody with a pulse...

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07-14-2004, 11:03 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bling
You had me at Sauer for anybody with a pulse...
In that case, how about another second rounder? They would soften the backlash from Buffalo fans.

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07-14-2004, 11:17 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisBaker
In that case, how about another second rounder? They would soften the backlash from Buffalo fans.
Do the deal man

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07-14-2004, 11:26 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadoz19
Don't think Detroit could afford him. They've said they only want a payroll around $60m-$65m next year and they are almost there.

What would it cost the Wings? Datsyuk? Zetterberg? Datsyuk put up more points than Satan and both will make half or less of Satan makes next season.
Datsyuk for Satan??? Zetterberg for Satan??? No way. Those deals are bunk.

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07-14-2004, 11:27 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Danrik
I'm not a Sabre fan, but I sure do scoff at the return. For the Sabres money is no longer as big an issue as before now that they have some stability, and trading away their best offensive player for little more than a third pairing defenseman and a second round pick seems a little stupid to me. Not only is the value off, but it doesn't help them improve - in fact, it weakens them.

The Avs could certainly use Satan, but I don't think that they'd have much to offer that would interest the Sabres.

Agreed for the most part.....team is having issues with Vanek and a contract. Can't sell crap to the fans, they won't buy it. If they move Satan they need to bring something viable back.

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07-14-2004, 11:40 PM
  #72
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Moving Satan in the next year is probable. My worry is Regier not getting enough value in return. If what I see across the net in recent days is true, that Regier is being closed out by some teams (LA, Colorado).....how seriously can he be thought of by other teams?

Was that Sakic-McKee talk of a couple years ago for real?

You can ask for the moon, but it's wise not to look like an imbecile in front of your co-horts.

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07-15-2004, 12:08 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs
Agreed for the most part.....team is having issues with Vanek and a contract. Can't sell crap to the fans, they won't buy it. If they move Satan they need to bring something viable back.
I agree with your message about the fans. However, it would appear that the return for Satan will not offer straight equity, regardless of who Buffalo can get to take his contract. So it seems like a two-to-three step retooling process is in order. For instance, Buffalo could take a Sauer and pick(s) package for Miro. The surplus dollars can then be used to get two or even three young, hard-working players elsewhere to fall in line with what it looks like the Sabres are shooting for; or they can wrap up Zhitnik until his playing days are over. More and more, the latter seems less likely with Golisano referring to Z in the past tense in recent statements. So it's possible that viable parts may arrive indirectly, although they may not pay immediate dividends due to their youth. Therein lies the beef that Sabres fans will have with ownership. I'm for it, but I feel that I'm in the minority.

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07-15-2004, 12:17 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisBaker
I agree with your message about the fans. However, it would appear that the return for Satan will not offer straight equity, regardless of who Buffalo can get to take his contract. So it seems like a two-to-three step retooling process is in order. For instance, Buffalo could take a Sauer and pick(s) package for Miro. The surplus dollars can then be used to get two or even three young, hard-working players elsewhere to fall in line with what it looks like the Sabres are shooting for; or they can wrap up Zhitnik until his playing days are over. More and more, the latter seems less likely with Golisano referring to Z in the past tense in recent statements. So it's possible that viable parts may arrive indirectly, although they may not pay immediate dividends due to their youth. Therein lies the beef that Sabres fans will have with ownership. I'm for it, but I feel that I'm in the minority.
1. They probably won't get the kind of value they should get in a Satan trade. The thing is, you can't sell that to Joe Fan in North Tonawanda. It's not the end of the world if Joe Fan can't comprehend it, but I don't think ticket sales will rise by moving Satan.

2. Surplus dollars should go to the defense as a first option.

3. re: Past tense in reference to Zhitnik? Haven't seen that.

4. I don't see how both Satan and Zhitnik can depart and at least an honest effort to replace the talent can't occur. It's not all Golisano's fault that there is alienation between Buffalo area residents and its NHL team. However, he has to do what he can to stem the tide. Fans won't see it as Golisano's term, but a continuation of the Rigas era, being tight-fisted, etc. Keeping this GM and scouting staff for eons. The franchise operates incredibly slowly and I think people have become tired of it.

5. I think we have the hard-working part of the equation cornered. Now the franchise has to focus on the talented part of the equation.

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07-15-2004, 12:27 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs
1. They probably won't get the kind of value they should get in a Satan trade. The thing is, you can't sell that to Joe Fan in North Tonawanda. It's not the end of the world if Joe Fan can't comprehend it, but I don't think ticket sales will rise by moving Satan.

2. Surplus dollars should go to the defense as a first option.

3. re: Past tense in reference to Zhitnik? Haven't seen that.

4. I don't see how both Satan and Zhitnik can depart and at least an honest effort to replace the talent can't occur. It's not all Golisano's fault that there is alienation between Buffalo area residents and its NHL team. However, he has to do what he can to stem the tide. Fans won't see it as Golisano's term, but a continuation of the Rigas era, being tight-fisted, etc. Keeping this GM and scouting staff for eons. The franchise operates incredibly slowly and I think people have become tired of it.

5. I think we have the hard-working part of the equation cornered. Now the franchise has to focus on the talented part of the equation.
Agreed on all accounts, especially the bolstering of the D. You'll find the majority of my posts clammoring for such moves. As far as talent goes, hopefully Pominville and Afinogenov can step it up offensively, and they can iron out any differences they may have with Vanek's camp. It's getting tougher to deal with the impending reality of the situation. The Golisano comments are coming from S&B's show this afternoon, where they discussed some sort of media session where the remarks were made. No sound byte, but maybe TBN will run something soon with more details/quotes.

We should probably get this thread moved to the Sabres board. (?)

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