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I like our prospect list a lot!

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Old
07-16-2004, 01:39 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez
Not sure where you heard this. May or may not be true.
However, I am quite sure if there was a poll of Oiler fans having to choose between Schremp and Chuko, Schremp would likely garner far more votes. I, for one, am glad it worked out the way it did.
There were 1-2 on SLAM for canoe.ca just after the draft

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07-16-2004, 01:39 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Allan
He certainly put up more points than anyone the Oilers currently have.
15,000+ Let's see Gretzky top that. Plus at 6'10 he's almost a foot taller than Gretz. Lets see Chara deal with him in the corners.

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07-16-2004, 01:40 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guymez
Not sure where you heard this. May or may not be true.
However, I am quite sure if there was a poll of Oiler fans having to choose between Schremp and Chuko, Schremp would likely garner far more votes. I, for one, am glad it worked out the way it did.
What I read is that they had them fairly even. I think it was Chucko that Prendergast was referring to when he said that they almost had to take a time out before their second pick. I can see why they had them close - Chucko is safe, but unspectacular, where Schremp is the opposite. When you look at the Oilers' prospect list, it becomes apparent which way they needed to go.

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07-16-2004, 01:41 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by spaz44
Yeah maybe, but that doesn't take away from the argument that Schremp may be a great player. Though I would like to see a link from you that shows this to be the case.

Chucko from all reports is a safe pick but he is going to take a long time to develop and I don't know about his offensive upside.

I would rather the Oilers picked Schremp instead of Chucko. Of course they took a chance but list me one player picked in the 20's that didn't have major question marks?

There isn't one, so why not take a chance on the guy that obviously has tonnes of talent and may have an attitude problem at the age of 17

An attitude problem at the age of 17, inconceivable.
Where did I say he wouldn't be a great player?

A player in the 20's that doesn't have a question mark? Meszaros.

Attitude problem at 17/18 for a draft eligible player? Yes, because there were ALOT of them this draft Or better yet, in the past 10 years

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07-16-2004, 01:45 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Nope

You know... I'm going to get burned at the stake here, but I really don't like your set of prospects. I'm a huge Woywitka and Lynch fan, but neither are top notch prospects, and both of which were displaced by a 17 year old Phaneuf in Red Deer when both were overagers.
I'll have to disagree with this statement. Wowitka won the award for best defensemen in the WHL during his last year. I don't think he was displaced by Phaneuf that year. Lynch was hurt in his final year so he can't really count. He broke his leg midseason and missed the rest of the year, that's one of the main reason's he lacks hype.

However don't get me wrong. I love Phaneuf, I think he will be a dominant NHL'er(although I think Ryan Suter is up there as well, he's not hyped up here because he's in college though)

Overall, I think the Flames have the best young defense in the league. That will be responsible for carrying their team for the forseable future. They have 3 young potential #1's, Leopold, Phaneuf, and Regehr. Ramholt is pretty good too.

However other than on defense, the flames are lacking bigtime. Their two most hyped forward prospects are Nystrom and Chucko. Nystrom will be a 3rd/4th liner, he will make the NHL but he will never be a top 2 line forward. Chucko it's hard to say, he's just as big of a risk as Schremp, Chucko hasn't even played WHL level yet, he's spent his whole career against lesser competition. It will be interesting to see him in college. I just don't see how the flames hope to compete, Iginla is the only offense on the team and only offense I see for the future that truly stands out. Saprykin is an interesting player but to be very honest, he would not even be in the NHL if he were on the Oilers. Same with Lombardi, although I like Lombardi alot, I'm not sure how high his upside is.

In net, Medvedev is fat and a poor attitute. He is a highly doubtful NHL'er.

Krahn had alot of hype and then tore his hamstring badly and required a bunch of surgery and missed 2 years. He is only now starting to find his post injury form.

Calgary will be a good team as long as they keep Iginla, I really hope to manage to lock him up longterm because this team is going no where for many years unless they keep him.

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07-16-2004, 01:47 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan
What I read is that they had them fairly even. I think it was Chucko that Prendergast was referring to when he said that they almost had to take a time out before their second pick. I can see why they had them close - Chucko is safe, but unspectacular, where Schremp is the opposite. When you look at the Oilers' prospect list, it becomes apparent which way they needed to go.
Agreed. The Oilers' definitely have had enough "safe" picks over the years. It was refreshing to see them go for a potentially high risk ( although I tend to think it is overblown ) / high reward type of player.

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07-16-2004, 01:48 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Digger12
Oh, no doubt about that. As a prospect, he's right up there.

It'll be interesting to see how those 3 dmen (Phaneuf/Coburn/Suter) stack up against each other in the coming years.
Or to see how all 3 stack up against Pitkonen. That kid is gold, and will be a solid D-man for many years, in both ends of the rink.

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07-16-2004, 01:48 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
As for prospects, there is always something that is negative. Pheneuf has limited offensive upside according to many of the reports I read.

I like Pheneuf but beyond him I don't see a lot of depth in the Calgary prospects. Edmonton probably doesn't have a lot of star power in their prospects but have a lot more depth. Now that above statement has an asterisk IMO. Schremp potentially has more star power than many prospects. Notice the word potentially, but you could use that word for every prospect.

We can all talk all day about what we think is going to happen to the prospects and all of us will have some legitimate points but at the end of the day it is all conjecture. Rita was listed exactly where Pheneuf is now but look what happened. I am not saying this will happen to Pheneuf, but just because a player is highly rated does not mean they will always succeed.

I think Pheneuf will have a long and solid career, and most of us do, none of us has really questioned that. Schremp is a question mark but at pick 25, not a major risk especially in a weak draft. Most or not all of the players picked around that spot had question marks.

All the scouts that I read say that Schremp was one of the most talented guys in the draft, whether he will put it all together is the question.

But Splatman where I find that Calgary fans arguments fall down is they use scouts and ratings to say that Pheneuf is going to be a great player but almost all the scouting organizations and magazines list Edmontons prospects as very deep but both you and kokopeli say you don't like the prospects.

In this case as you said I would go with the reports I have read about the Oilers prospects at face value until it is proven otherwise. I think at the end of the day more prospects from the Oilers list will have an impact on our team than on the prospects on Calgary's list.
Depth? How exactly do the Lynch's and such of the world rank ahead of our Taratuhkin, Nystrom and Ramhoult? The depth is decent, and after Phaneuf not star studed, but hardly weak either. As for what they become, who knows. Right now (note again: RIGHT NOW) we are rating them on how we see them in the FUTURE.

As for your prospects, fine, HF ranked them above the Flames. I never conceded we were stacked with prospects. Phaneuf is the obvious blue chipper, and there are a few guys that could fill out - Taratuhkin, Nystrom, Trubachev, Medvedev, Krahn, McConnell, Johnsson, Ramhoult, Peter... nothing ground shaking, but at least 2-3 of them will probably play in the league. I don't talk out of my ass and start blindly critisizing prospects. If I know nothing of them or have never seen them, I resort to scouting reports. Some of your boys, Lynch, Woywitka to name two, I followed very closely when the Rebels played in Calgary.

As for who makes more of an impact... outside of Phaneuf, Edmonton may be more solid, but I don't think Calgary is as weak as you claim.

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07-16-2004, 01:49 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Where did I say he wouldn't be a great player?

A player in the 20's that doesn't have a question mark? Meszaros.

Attitude problem at 17/18 for a draft eligible player? Yes, because there were ALOT of them this draft Or better yet, in the past 10 years
Did I say you said that but you seemed to insinuate that none of our prospects had star potential since Schremp is one of our prospects it would be only a natural assumption that you didn't think he would turn out to be a star.

As for Meszaros let me give you some question marks. Not very physical, needs to improve first step quickness.

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07-16-2004, 01:53 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Depth? How exactly do the Lynch's and such of the world rank ahead of our Taratuhkin, Nystrom and Ramhoult? The depth is decent, and after Phaneuf not star studed, but hardly weak either. As for what they become, who knows. Right now (note again: RIGHT NOW) we are rating them on how we see them in the FUTURE.

As for your prospects, fine, HF ranked them above the Flames. I never conceded we were stacked with prospects. Phaneuf is the obvious blue chipper, and there are a few guys that could fill out - Taratuhkin, Nystrom, Trubachev, Medvedev, Krahn, McConnell, Johnsson, Ramhoult, Peter... nothing ground shaking, but at least 2-3 of them will probably play in the league. I don't talk out of my ass and start blindly critisizing prospects. If I know nothing of them or have never seen them, I resort to scouting reports. Some of your boys, Lynch, Woywitka to name two, I followed very closely when the Rebels played in Calgary.

As for who makes more of an impact... outside of Phaneuf, Edmonton may be more solid, but I don't think Calgary is as weak as you claim.
I didn't say they were weak, I said they were not as deep as Edmonton's. The Hockey News is also a publication that listed our prospect depth as deep. So it isn't just Hockey's future (something I read on Calgary Puck about only Hockeys Future listing our prospects as deep, this is not something that I think you said)

Calgary has some solid players in the organization I just don't think they have as many that will have an impact as Edmonton does.

If you read my post again you will notice that this was my contention that Edmonton's prospects have more depth, since you have already conceded this point and I never said that Calgary's prospects are weak then we really don't disagree at all.


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 07-16-2004 at 01:56 AM.
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07-16-2004, 01:56 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
As for who makes more of an impact... outside of Phaneuf, Edmonton may be more solid, but I don't think Calgary is as weak as you claim.
Probably true...only time will decide this debate.

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07-16-2004, 01:56 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by elphy101
I'll have to disagree with this statement. Wowitka won the award for best defensemen in the WHL during his last year. I don't think he was displaced by Phaneuf that year. Lynch was hurt in his final year so he can't really count. He broke his leg midseason and missed the rest of the year, that's one of the main reason's he lacks hype.

However don't get me wrong. I love Phaneuf, I think he will be a dominant NHL'er(although I think Ryan Suter is up there as well, he's not hyped up here because he's in college though)

Overall, I think the Flames have the best young defense in the league. That will be responsible for carrying their team for the forseable future. They have 3 young potential #1's, Leopold, Phaneuf, and Regehr. Ramholt is pretty good too.

However other than on defense, the flames are lacking bigtime. Their two most hyped forward prospects are Nystrom and Chucko. Nystrom will be a 3rd/4th liner, he will make the NHL but he will never be a top 2 line forward. Chucko it's hard to say, he's just as big of a risk as Schremp, Chucko hasn't even played WHL level yet, he's spent his whole career against lesser competition. It will be interesting to see him in college. I just don't see how the flames hope to compete, Iginla is the only offense on the team and only offense I see for the future that truly stands out. Saprykin is an interesting player but to be very honest, he would not even be in the NHL if he were on the Oilers. Same with Lombardi, although I like Lombardi alot, I'm not sure how high his upside is.

In net, Medvedev is fat and a poor attitute. He is a highly doubtful NHL'er.

Krahn had alot of hype and then tore his hamstring badly and required a bunch of surgery and missed 2 years. He is only now starting to find his post injury form.

Calgary will be a good team as long as they keep Iginla, I really hope to manage to lock him up longterm because this team is going no where for many years unless they keep him.
The Rebels played the Hitman in the playoffs, and it was obvious that Phaneuf had replaced Woywitka as the top defenseman on the team, at the end of the regular season and throughout the 1st round. Most, if not all, responsibilities swere handed over to Phaneuf, and he was the clear cut leader on the blueline. I happen to work the club (I'm an usher at the Saddldome) and got to chat woth 4-5 scouts, all of whom were dumbfounded that this 17 year old draft eligible prospect overtook a solid, top rated prospect in Woywitka. By no means am I taking away from Woywitka's play or potential, but Phaneuf is simply better.

Forwards, you have to realize the best of the bunch are on the team - Lombardi, Saprykin and Kobasew, all of which are top 2 line players. Taratuhkin may play on the 2nd line, but will likely be a 3rd liner (2nd on a bad team). Nystrom is a 3rd liner indead, but I'm holding hope that he can pick up a little Adam Deadmarsh in him and be a 2nd liner, but I'm not holding much hope out for him to be any better then Chris Clark. McConnell is apperently bouncing back, but I don't know enough about him to comment. While the BCHL is a lesser league, Zajec played in it as well and was drafted by arguably the best drafting team in the league in the 1st round, so I'm not the least bit worried that he performed under lesser competition. Rounding out, Trubachev may be a long short Marc Savard in the making, and maybe one of the later round draft picks will step up. But for now, the system is pretty bare, but with the guys on the team, I don't see a concern.

As for goaltenders... Medvedev's weight problem doesn't concern me, but his attitude problem does. But since I rarely get updates on him, I can't comment. Krahn is bouncing back in a big way, and with Kiprusoff being young, that issue doesn't have to be addressed for another few years.

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07-16-2004, 02:00 AM
  #113
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It seems to me like the whole Calgary prospects hype machine is now being feuled by reports of Phaneuf's imminent greatness and imo that's not enough to carry a franchise.

Between the Oilers' big three I'll hazard a guess that at least one of them has a better nhl career than Dion does, and in any event I'd never trade them for one Phaneuf.

As for Bergeron being overrated, he's already doing in the nhl what Dion is never even expected to do and that's score big points. He came within 5 points of catching Jordan Leopold this year and he played in 28 less games. You can be as unimpressed with him as you like but that doesn't hold any water, facts being what they are.

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07-16-2004, 02:01 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Lombardi, Saprykin and Kobasew, all of which are top 2 line players.
You know what's funny?

At the beginning of the season, I looked at Saprykin as the weakest link in this chain, with Kobasew as the top dog amongst the three.

After the playoffs, I like Saprykin the most...when the games got really tough he seemed to redefine himself and did what he could to make a difference in a game. Kobasew? IMO he reminds me of a poor man's Anson Carter in style of play. I'd take Sap or Kobasew every time.

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07-16-2004, 02:06 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
You know what's funny?

At the beginning of the season, I looked at Saprykin as the weakest link in this chain, with Kobasew as the top dog amongst the three.

After the playoffs, I like Saprykin the most...when the games got really tough he seemed to redefine himself and did what he could to make a difference in a game. Kobasew? IMO he reminds me of a poor man's Anson Carter in style of play. I'd take Sap or Kobasew every time.
Kobasew is about a season behind in development than Saprykin though I'd say. Give him another year, if he pots ten goals he'll be right on his developmental path, Kob gives'er though, he could be a poor-mans Gary Roberts if he develops right.

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07-16-2004, 02:07 AM
  #116
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[QUOTE=Splatman Phanutier]Forwards, you have to realize the best of the bunch are on the team - Lombardi, Saprykin and Kobasew, all of which are top 2 line players. QUOTE]

Well, if what you say is true regarding Kobasew and Lombardi, Calgarys forward depth is severly lacking. These are 3rd liners at best.

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07-16-2004, 02:08 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by spaz44
Did I say you said that but you seemed to insinuate that none of our prospects had star potential since Schremp is one of our prospects it would be only a natural assumption that you didn't think he would turn out to be a star.
Huh? Your accusing me of making assumptions, when you're making assumptions about my post?

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07-16-2004, 02:09 AM
  #118
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[QUOTE=guymez]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Forwards, you have to realize the best of the bunch are on the team - Lombardi, Saprykin and Kobasew, all of which are top 2 line players. QUOTE]

Well, if what you say is true regarding Kobasew and Lombardi. Calgarys forward depth is severly lacking. These are 3rd liners at best.
Lombardi already is a 3rd liner, and was as a rookie. Kob was a 4th liner, but it was his first full NHL season and he's not all that old. I see no reason why they are third liners at best.

EDIT: unless you mean that they are already 2nd liners, which isn't the case quite yet, perhaps next year, and I may have misunderstood you, but I think Splat was saying they have that potential, which could be reached as soon as next year depending on Sutter.


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07-16-2004, 02:10 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
It seems to me like the whole Calgary prospects hype machine is now being feuled by reports of Phaneuf's imminent greatness and imo that's not enough to carry a franchise.

Between the Oilers' big three I'll hazard a guess that at least one of them has a better nhl career than Dion does, and in any event I'd never trade them for one Phaneuf.

As for Bergeron being overrated, he's already doing in the nhl what Dion is never even expected to do and that's score big points. He came within 5 points of catching Jordan Leopold this year and he played in 28 less games. You can be as unimpressed with him as you like but that doesn't hold any water, facts being what they are.
Phaneuf is definatly making a huge mark on the Flames prospect system

Which of the 3, exactly, is going to be better than Phaneuf? As said, Lynch was displaced mid way through the season by Phaneuf (about Jan) while Woywitka was taken over going into, and throughout the playoffs.

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07-16-2004, 02:13 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by guymez
Well, if what you say is true regarding Kobasew and Lombardi, Calgarys forward depth is severly lacking. These are 3rd liners at best.
Very weak statement IMO

Lombardi, in his rookie season, was a 2nd/3rd line center. I would think as he plays more, he'd improve. Not resigning Conroy showed that Sutter had Lombardi on the 2nd line. The guy's definatly going to be a top 6 forward.

As for Kobaew... what the hell were you expecting from a rookie? 40 goals? If anything, his post season play encouraged me about the player he would become. I never doubted his skill, as long as the chances are there, the hands never leave you. All his question marks were his toughness, consistancy and willingness to pay the price. He put all those questions to bed.

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07-16-2004, 02:20 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Phaneuf is definatly making a huge mark on the Flames prospect system

Which of the 3, exactly, is going to be better than Phaneuf? As said, Lynch was displaced mid way through the season by Phaneuf (about Jan) while Woywitka was taken over going into, and throughout the playoffs.
Well Lynch only played in 13 games ( not exactly half a season as you stated ) that year so your comparison is pointless. As for Woywitka he played in 14 less games than Phaneuf ( also due to injury ) and still managed to score 29 more points than Phaneuf.
As a side note Woywitka was 4th on the team in points. Not bad for a defenceman, who only played in 57 games.


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07-16-2004, 02:24 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Forwards, you have to realize the best of the bunch are on the team - Lombardi, Saprykin and Kobasew, all of which are top 2 line players.
Absolutely, Phaneuf is a stud and better than any prospect in the Oilers system. That part I agree with 100%, he is a better prospect than Lynch or Wowitka. I think almost all Oiler fans agree with that. I would trade any Oiler prospect for Phaneuf.

However, when talking about forward prospects, calgary is not in Edmonton's league imo. Yes Lombardi, Saprykin and Kobasew are all in the NHL. Look at Edmonton, Hemsky, Torres, Stoll are all in the NHL. I would definitely take those 3 over the flames 3. On top of that, edmonton has Schremp, Rita, Pouliot, Niinimaki, Mikhnov and Brodziak, all playing very impressively, and looking like at least a few of them will be top 2 line forwards.

In terms of defensive prospects, yes Calgary is better with Leopold, Phaneuf and Regehr. Calgary has better defensive prospects than any team in the league imo. In comparison, to the rest of the league though. Edmonton is not far behind. They have great young talent. Brewer, Bergeron, Semenov, Lynch and Wowitka. Plus, the most unheralded youngster Matt Greene who I think will shine in the future. Oilers scouts are already saying Greene will be the player that Oiler's scouts would most like to have their name attached to.

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07-16-2004, 02:29 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Very weak statement IMO

Lombardi, in his rookie season, was a 2nd/3rd line center. I would think as he plays more, he'd improve. Not resigning Conroy showed that Sutter had Lombardi on the 2nd line. The guy's definatly going to be a top 6 forward.

As for Kobaew... what the hell were you expecting from a rookie? 40 goals? If anything, his post season play encouraged me about the player he would become. I never doubted his skill, as long as the chances are there, the hands never leave you. All his question marks were his toughness, consistancy and willingness to pay the price. He put all those questions to bed.
Why is it weak, because you don't agree with it? Just because Lombardi was a second line center on the Flames, dosn't mean he is ( or will be ) a legitimate 2nd line center. Regarding Kobasew, I am aware that he is a rookie. I simply see him as a fourth line player. I was able to watch the Flames quite a bit this year, and Kobasew didn't show anything to garner 2nd line projections.

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07-16-2004, 02:31 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Huh? Your accusing me of making assumptions, when you're making assumptions about my post?
Didn't you accuse me of calling Calgary's prospects weak? Obviously you misunderstood me.

And I am glad you think Schremp is going to be great so I guess both organizations have a star player in it and you have already agreed Edmonton's prospects are deeper than Calgary's. We don't have much of an argument do we?

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07-16-2004, 02:52 AM
  #125
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Alright, a lot said after my last comment here asking if there is any Oiler prospect we'd want to keep over Phaneuf, and Splatman saying he's going to get burned at the stake for what he said is something I have a tough time disagreeing with. I would easily take Phaneuf over Lynch or Wowyitka(although not Semenov as was brought up at one point). The problem for me lies between JDD, DD, and Schremp. IMO, Phaneuf is a better prospect than all three, no doubt in my mind. Thing is, we have good young defensman coming up, but after Schremp, we don't have a guy with game breaking talent. There's Hemsky, but IMO, he doesn't have the top end talent Schremp does. The biggest question mark though is will he realize it. I for one hope and think so, as I was actually in the thinking that Schremp would be gone before our 1st pick Either way though, I think with the state our depth is in, we have to take that gamble. And as far as the goalies go, we're not all that young with the guy's in the NHL and after those 2, there really is nothing. Personally, I'd still take Phaneuf over either one though. I would not over Schremp though with the intention of not dealing him elsewhere. Phaneuf is far more of a safe prospect, but the Oilers lack a guy with Schremps talent... we all saw how much of a differance Nedved made when he was brought over and I think Schremp has a lot more potential talent than him.

And to get in my 2 cents about the organization's depth charts, I honestly, and not speaking homeristicly(that's a cool sounding word...), that we have more depth. I'm not at all a fan of the Nystrom pick. He seems to be a 3rd liner at best, and that's questionable(mostly just going from reports I've read however). Chucko I like(got to see him a fair bit this year), but he is another guy I wouldn't have taken in the 1st, and I'm glad the Flames took him, because if the Oilers did, I would've been dissapointed. He is more of a complimentary player IMO, and although there's nothing wrong with that, our team is full of guy's like that. I've heard lots of people say his upside is 3rd line, but I'd have to say he could easily end up being a second liner, but he'd be the butter, rather than the bread on the line. Something like Carter(not the crappy Carter though) I could see.

Phaneuf is the best prospect either of the two teams have, I'm just hard pressed to say I'd rather have him over Schremp because of organizational needs. I think we were extremely lucky to get him where we did. Of course, if the Oilers actually managed to get Phaneuf for him, I'd be pretty happy still.

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