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Wiz wants to come back

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Old
05-05-2011, 11:33 AM
  #26
Monctonscout
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I think what will be a deciding factor if Wisniewski is back:

1-if they can find a way to move Spacek(maybe take back a bad contract that they can send AHL or buy out cheap.)
2-if they can sign him to a reasonable contract 4-4.5 mil over 3-4 years(home town discount)
3-Markov can be signed to a reasonable price(5-5.5 cap hit)

If they don't sign Markov then I'm sure Wiz becomes a high priority...though they could always fall back on some of the offensive UFA's like Ehrhoff McCabe Kaberle Pitkanen as the market will be a bit flooded in offensive d-men.

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05-05-2011, 11:34 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by habsrock76 View Post
Cant we give Hamrlik's money (less a mill) to Wiz, isnt he 5.5 off the books?

There's no reason why the Habs cant sign both, but Id take a healthy Wiz over a sketchy Markov (the same knee shredded twice in 7 months) at this point.

Markov - PK
Wiz - Gorges
Spacek and the choice of Weber, Gill, UFA or even Emelein (I think its safe to say he can play the 5-6 role for this team now)
They can definitely give Wisniewski Hamrlik's cap hit, but then they need other maneuvring to improve the forward core, where a guy like Laich Upshall would be a big help.

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05-05-2011, 11:34 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I agree that Ehrhoff is a better option, he's just so much better than Wiz in his own end. But after next season, we'd be paying Markov, Ehrhoff and Subban over 5mil each, plus we'll have to pay for stay at home dmen.

How long would you have Subban on the 2nd PP? With his shot, ability to skate the puck into the offensive zone and stamina, he should be playing more than a minute per PP.

I don't think assuming a cap increase every season is a good idea. You're betting on the international economy, the Canadian dollar, the health of NHL franchises, the cap structure of the new CBA... there's a lot of potential volatility, in my view.
I don't think PK will necessarily get an increase over 5M. I can see him potting 3.5M, it'll only be 2seasons and maybe he'll have a tougher sophomore one. But even if he doesn't, I don't see why he'd have a cap hit of 5M+.
Same thing with Price. I'm sure both these guys will be signed long term, and can see their cap hits varying in between 3.5M(PK)-4.5M(Price).

We will see what happens with the new CBA. No way of really knowing, but it should not influence your decisions. As for cap increase, I'm only going on by what has happened. Even during the tough season, with league attendance in certain cities reached rock bottom, the NHL still saw its cap go up by 1M if I remember correctly.
But even if it doesn't, like I said, there are certain players coming off the cap, like Spacek and Moen, that already would free up 5M. If you consider that Price will likely have around a 2M increase on his cap hit, and PK a little under 3, then just Spacek and Moen leaving would free up enough space for those two increases.
I don't think expecting both Price and PK to have cap hits higher than 4.5-5M is reasonable, especially for PK.

I think you're overdoing it with the cap. We can spend to the cap without any worries for next year. Even if we have a cap situation next summer, then we can deal with it then. Right now we have the chance of really, really having a very deep D corps. Markov, Gorges, Weber, PK, Spacek, if you can add two other guys like Wiz/Ehrhoff and Hejda/Ericsson, no offense, but you would have to be stupid to pass up on that opportunity.

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Old
05-05-2011, 11:36 AM
  #29
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I think he puts himself in competition with Markov because he thinks that it'd be either him or Markov on the 1st PP and that Subban is a lock. Wiz is pretty good at producing 5 on 5 offense so IMO there's still good reason to bring him back.

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05-05-2011, 11:38 AM
  #30
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As with the most of the rest of you on here I think it comes down to money and exactly how much he wants. My upper limit for him would be $4M and he would have to sign for a few years to get that imo. Anything more will likely not be worth it.

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05-05-2011, 11:44 AM
  #31
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I want him back.

Markov-Wiz
Gorges-Subban
Spacek-Weber

Not the toughest, unfortunately, but a lot of puck moving d-man...! Nice mix of young, speed and talent.

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05-05-2011, 11:50 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Habsfan22100 View Post
Looking at the 2nd round, they aren't THAT far off, at least in the east. They took Boston to 7 games and I wouldn't say that TB is that much better than them either.
I agree they played well, and they have always been a bad matchup for Boston. However, Tampa has way more weapons up front, its not even comparable.

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05-05-2011, 11:50 AM
  #33
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@ googlymoogly

Wiz didn't compare himself to Markov. He just doubts Habs would be able to afford both Markov and himself... which is a fair assessment.

@ roulin

Even if the cap goes up to 63 millions as rumored, Gauthier might fall short by a million or 2 to resign both Markov and Wisniewski. You're right when you say that for the same price, Ehrhoff would be a better sign than Wiz, but if you ink Markov, both Wisniewski and Ehrhoff would become redundant in their roles. One would assume Markov and Subban would be on the 1st PP unit, which makes a 5 million D a bit of a waste on your 2nd PP. It might just be better to sign a guy for a little less, a guy like Bieksa who hasn't always been steady but who would provide a big body and a mean streak on D along with the tools to be a 2nd PP guy.

@ habsrule22

You're right when you say Wiz might find he doesn't have as many quality options as he might think, but TB (obviously) and STL would be competitive environments.
You have to add Toronto to your list, though. Not that it's a contender, but the Leafs close the gap with the Canadiens a little bit more every year...

@ Analyzer

A bit more sandpaper would surely be welcome at the blue line. I don't know if Vandermeer expects to get as much as he's making now (2,3M) but it seems like a hefty price to pay. O'Brien might be within range... and a healthy Montador too (who Jacques had for 3 years in Florida).

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05-05-2011, 11:51 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I don't think PK will necessarily get an increase over 5M. I can see him potting 3.5M, it'll only be 2seasons and maybe he'll have a tougher sophomore one. But even if he doesn't, I don't see why he'd have a cap hit of 5M+.
Same thing with Price. I'm sure both these guys will be signed long term, and can see their cap hits varying in between 3.5M(PK)-4.5M(Price).

We will see what happens with the new CBA. No way of really knowing, but it should not influence your decisions. As for cap increase, I'm only going on by what has happened. Even during the tough season, with league attendance in certain cities reached rock bottom, the NHL still saw its cap go up by 1M if I remember correctly.
But even if it doesn't, like I said, there are certain players coming off the cap, like Spacek and Moen, that already would free up 5M. If you consider that Price will likely have around a 2M increase on his cap hit, and PK a little under 3, then just Spacek and Moen leaving would free up enough space for those two increases.
I don't think expecting both Price and PK to have cap hits higher than 4.5-5M is reasonable, especially for PK.

I think you're overdoing it with the cap. We can spend to the cap without any worries for next year. Even if we have a cap situation next summer, then we can deal with it then. Right now we have the chance of really, really having a very deep D corps. Markov, Gorges, Weber, PK, Spacek, if you can add two other guys like Wiz/Ehrhoff and Hejda/Ericsson, no offense, but you would have to be stupid to pass up on that opportunity.
I think if Price and Subban keep on the same career track as this season, both will get a huge raise for 2012-2013. we'd be looking at around 5 mil for Subban and 6 for Price, trying to extend them this summer maybe we can save a bit by offering Price 3-4 years at 5 mil per year...or Subban 4.5 over 3. Who knows if they(or their agent) will want to take the security or wait another year and hope to hit it big. Pacioretty if he keeps playing like last year will also get a big raise in the next 2-3 years, he'll end up in the 4-5 mil range at some point.

The risk in signing Ehrhoff and Wisniewski is that it may prevent us from adding a top 6 winger in the next 2 years. Ehrhoff with the season he had and as a UFA would cost 5.5-6 mil for 3-5 years. Wisniewski we might get lucky and get him for 4.5 x 4 years if he likes it here.

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05-05-2011, 11:51 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
They can definitely give Wisniewski Hamrlik's cap hit, but then they need other maneuvring to improve the forward core, where a guy like Laich Upshall would be a big help.
We're definitely not getting Laich. Caps have will have enough money off the books in order to resign him. We'd have to give him a lot to get him. I'd like to have him in our lineup though and if somehow we manage to get him at a decent price, I'd be very impressed. Upshall, we might get, he's never played more than 60 games though but seems good when healthy. Let's see.

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05-05-2011, 11:56 AM
  #36
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with hammer off the cap resign both wiz and markov
done

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05-05-2011, 12:05 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I don't think PK will necessarily get an increase over 5M. I can see him potting 3.5M, it'll only be 2seasons and maybe he'll have a tougher sophomore one. But even if he doesn't, I don't see why he'd have a cap hit of 5M+.
Same thing with Price. I'm sure both these guys will be signed long term, and can see their cap hits varying in between 3.5M(PK)-4.5M(Price).

We will see what happens with the new CBA. No way of really knowing, but it should not influence your decisions. As for cap increase, I'm only going on by what has happened. Even during the tough season, with league attendance in certain cities reached rock bottom, the NHL still saw its cap go up by 1M if I remember correctly.
But even if it doesn't, like I said, there are certain players coming off the cap, like Spacek and Moen, that already would free up 5M. If you consider that Price will likely have around a 2M increase on his cap hit, and PK a little under 3, then just Spacek and Moen leaving would free up enough space for those two increases.
I don't think expecting both Price and PK to have cap hits higher than 4.5-5M is reasonable, especially for PK.

I think you're overdoing it with the cap. We can spend to the cap without any worries for next year. Even if we have a cap situation next summer, then we can deal with it then. Right now we have the chance of really, really having a very deep D corps. Markov, Gorges, Weber, PK, Spacek, if you can add two other guys like Wiz/Ehrhoff and Hejda/Ericsson, no offense, but you would have to be stupid to pass up on that opportunity.
I don't think the importance of cap management can be overstated. With Buffalo's new owner promising to spend, we are looking at a division where every team spends to the cap. It will be a situation where everyone pays the same amount for their team, the team that allocates the most wisely will be in the best position to win games.

As for paying PK 3.5m after next season, I just have to disagree. I tried to look for recent RFA comparables - the closest I could come up with is Marc Staal (3.95m), but he doesn't bring PK's offence, and Letang (3.5m), but he doesn't bring PK's defence. I think Subban really is a unique player, and will be payed as such.

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Old
05-05-2011, 12:11 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
We're definitely not getting Laich. Caps have will have enough money off the books in order to resign him. We'd have to give him a lot to get him. I'd like to have him in our lineup though and if somehow we manage to get him at a decent price, I'd be very impressed. Upshall, we might get, he's never played more than 60 games though but seems good when healthy. Let's see.
If it was that cut and dry that they were re-signing him they would have done it already. The fact taht they have not yet extended him means that there is a very real possibility he is a UFA on July 1st. The next month will also have a big say in that...

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05-05-2011, 12:24 PM
  #39
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If it was that cut and dry that they were re-signing him they would have done it already. The fact taht they have not yet extended him means that there is a very real possibility he is a UFA on July 1st. The next month will also have a big say in that...
If the Caps roster came back as is, they would have less than 10M to re-sign RFA's Alzner & Varlamov and UFA"s, Laich, Bradley, Arnott, Sturm and Hannan.

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05-05-2011, 12:31 PM
  #40
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@ Analyzer

A bit more sandpaper would surely be welcome at the blue line. I don't know if Vandermeer expects to get as much as he's making now (2,3M) but it seems like a hefty price to pay. O'Brien might be within range... and a healthy Montador too (who Jacques had for 3 years in Florida).
Worst comes to worst, w can re-sign Paul Mara as our 6th/7th d for some toughness. He's a big guy, not very tough compared to SoB, or Vandermeer, but he can still be effective and probably for cheap too.

Andrew Alberts is also a UFA

On the flip side, the habs can't keep screwing Weber over. Either way, should be an interesting off-season.

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05-05-2011, 12:31 PM
  #41
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its doable but i'd rather sign someone more stable on D
with markov, subban and webber on the back we have enough puck movement and offense
need to balance things out

Subbans raise should not be a concern as spaceks salary coming of the books next year should cover his raise

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05-05-2011, 12:38 PM
  #42
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I personally don't think we need Markov, Subban AND Wiz on the blueline....its either going to be Wiz or Markov in my eyes. We need to get at least 1 other big, solid defensive defencemen to play along with Gorges and Spacek.

I know people love Gill, but I dont think we need to keep him. He's nothing special on defence, he's slow and he adds ZERO offence. I'd rather let him go and replace him with someone more mobile.

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05-05-2011, 12:42 PM
  #43
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its doable but i'd rather sign someone more stable on D
with markov, subban and webber on the back we have enough puck movement and offense
need to balance things out

Subbans raise should not be a concern as spaceks salary coming of the books next year should cover his raise
Problem is, we can't afford to be too tight to the cap this year, because the only significant contracts ending after next year are Spacek ($3.8M) and Moen ($1.5M). Then consider that will be the offseason we have to sign: Subban, Price & Eller. Something tells me it will take more than $5.3M to cover raises for those three next summer...

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05-05-2011, 12:45 PM
  #44
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We have the cap space to get both. Just from all our ufas, we get 17mil. Though it may hurt our chances to getting a top 6 O.
Agree we could use Hamrlik's money to pay Wiz, a bit less actually.

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05-05-2011, 12:53 PM
  #45
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Problem is, we can't afford to be too tight to the cap this year, because the only significant contracts ending after next year are Spacek ($3.8M) and Moen ($1.5M). Then consider that will be the offseason we have to sign: Subban, Price & Eller. Something tells me it will take more than $5.3M to cover raises for those three next summer...
Add Pacioretty, if (knock on wood) he comes back healthy and productive! I think filling some spots with 1 year deals is the way to go this season. Hamrlik and Gill should be willing to sign for 1 year at a time, at this point in their careers.

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05-05-2011, 12:54 PM
  #46
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If he truly believes it will come down to him or Markov, that probably means he expects $5M+. I like the Wiz, but no thank you...
The Leafs could sign him (or Kaberle if the Bruins really, but really don't want to re-sign him) for that much.

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05-05-2011, 01:01 PM
  #47
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Add Pacioretty, if (knock on wood) he comes back healthy and productive! I think filling some spots with 1 year deals is the way to go this season. Hamrlik and Gill should be willing to sign for 1 year at a time, at this point in their careers.
I agree. You can dream about the Pitkanen's, Ehrhoff's and others but the defence that ended the season was not bad. Worn out and tired, entirely possible. But what are the odds of losing Markov and Gorges again next year? Okay, don't answer that. LOL

With Habs' UFA d-men all knocking at the door, willing to take pay cuts and with big raises due next year, it doesn't make sense to stray too far and throw big dollars even at Wiz. His services become somewhat redundant if Markov, Subban and Weber are going to be in the lineup. Besides I'd like a scoring forward to still be a priority too.

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05-05-2011, 01:06 PM
  #48
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that cabbie guy (not cabral richards) tweeted that months ago, now 2 sources saying he wants to come back. Get it done PG

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05-05-2011, 01:15 PM
  #49
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They can definitely give Wisniewski Hamrlik's cap hit, but then they need other maneuvring to improve the forward core, where a guy like Laich Upshall would be a big help.
Sure, but Scottie Brooks costs less.

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05-05-2011, 01:16 PM
  #50
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I don't think the importance of cap management can be overstated. With Buffalo's new owner promising to spend, we are looking at a division where every team spends to the cap. It will be a situation where everyone pays the same amount for their team, the team that allocates the most wisely will be in the best position to win games.

As for paying PK 3.5m after next season, I just have to disagree. I tried to look for recent RFA comparables - the closest I could come up with is Marc Staal (3.95m), but he doesn't bring PK's offence, and Letang (3.5m), but he doesn't bring PK's defence. I think Subban really is a unique player, and will be payed as such.

I'd say P.K is in a comparable situation to what Erik Johnson was a year ago. P.K just tallied 38pts in 77games and brings a somewhat similar all-around game. Although Johnson has a definite size advantage and a higher ceiling. After seasons of 33p in 69 games and 39p in 79 games he fetched a 2years 2.6mil $ contract.

Now I'm sure P.K will be signed to a longer term, so add 1-1.5 to that and you have a reasonably fair contract.

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