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Old
05-05-2011, 01:17 PM
  #51
The Right Price
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The problem is not to sign Wiz for next season. With Hammer coming off the books now we could easily offer Wiz 4.5 M for a one year deal.

The problem is that we have alot of contracts we need to renew in the coming off seasons that'll require a lot of free cap space. Examples: Subban, Price, Eller. And Wiz is certainly looking for a more long termish contract, something we can't offer him considering the circumstances.

Markov is also a more safe bet as long as he's healthy and has been on this team for over a decade.

Why Gainey signed Spacek to one year longer than Hammer or Gill was bad cap management.

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Old
05-05-2011, 01:29 PM
  #52
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Markov is not in the decision tree. The player choices will always be:

[keep good players] or [Keep Gomez]

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05-05-2011, 01:34 PM
  #53
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Assuming they dont have an eye for others options on the ufa market:

Right side: Subban - Wiz - Weber
Left side: Markov - Gorges - Gill
Extra: Spacek

Gill - Spacek - Weber would rotate (anyways there will be injuries)

That D could move the puck very efficiently. However, it's not very big as a whole and the offense isnt exactly huge to start with... i dunno, nice potential but good amount of risk going that way also imo.

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05-05-2011, 01:38 PM
  #54
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Stop the presses!!! The Wiz dares to tell the truth.


"...Cela dit, selon le Wiz, un peu plus de robustesse ne ferait pas de tort au Canadien...."


What some of us here on HB have been saying and others have been denying. I guess having an NHLer who played on the team say it might mean something but I doubt it.

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Old
05-05-2011, 01:43 PM
  #55
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by The Right Price View Post
The problem is not to sign Wiz for next season. With Hammer coming off the books now we could easily offer Wiz 4.5 M for a one year deal.

The problem is that we have alot of contracts we need to renew in the coming off seasons that'll require a lot of free cap space. Examples: Subban, Price, Eller. And Wiz is certainly looking for a more long termish contract, something we can't offer him considering the circumstances.

Markov is also a more safe bet as long as he's healthy and has been on this team for over a decade.

Why Gainey signed Spacek to one year longer than Hammer or Gill was bad cap management.
A couple of things:
1) Markov is a safer bet as long as he's healthy... doesn't seem contradictory to you? I mean health/durability risks can't be overly safe to "bet on".

2) Eller's cap hit is already almost $1.3 mil, he only has one more year to earn more, and still isn't playing much more than 10 mins per game or contributing much on the scoresheet. What kind of raise are you expecting him to get? I'd be surprised, even if he "lights it up" next season, if he even commands anywhere close to the $3.25M that A.Kost got after being a repeat 20+ goal scorer.

In any event, I expect that the simple elimination of Spacek's contract would almost entirely compensate for Price (currently 2.75M cap hit, likely won't more than double regardless of salary structure) and Eller's raises. And like you said, if Hamrlik is gone (I've been defending him, but as an asset I'd rather have Wiz for sure), then there should be more than enough money to cover Wiz AND have a bit extra to bank away for PK(who, in all likelyhood, should be looking something between E.Johnson and J.Johnson money - $2.5M to $3.5M cap hit). I really don't see any potential problems from cap limitations, only limitations with regards to correctly making "tough" decisions in the best interest of the club's future.

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Old
05-05-2011, 01:53 PM
  #56
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You sign both with no real defensive def in our prospect system. Wiz can take hammers money. The you sign kost to a one year deal (rfa) assuming you don't get a laich or upshaw. Then the next year you should be able to fill kosts postions with a farm player such as palusjia , avtsin, or leblanc (both will be on cheaper contracts) plus you have to think after this year gomez will be a lot easier to move due to his lower actual salary, with eller moving it that postion as 2nd line center. Lines for next year would be:

Cammy-pleks-ufa/A.kost
Patches-gomez-gionta
DD-eller-darche
Moen-white-pyatt/ufa
Ex: pyatt/ufa

Markov-gorges
Subban-wiz
Spacek-gill
Ex:weber

Price
Auld/ufa

Then the following year:

Cammy-pleks-leblanc/rookie
Patches-eller-gionta
Rookie/ufa-DD-darche
Conboy-enquvist-white
Extra: pyatt/rookie

Markov-gorges
Wiz-subban
Weber-ufa/gill
Extra:ufa/nash/rookie

Price
Ufa

Its defentialy doable and this is how PG should be seeing things, just my 2 cents.

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Old
05-05-2011, 01:56 PM
  #57
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Wiz or Markov? Nice knowing you Wiz, get the f out. I'll gladly give Weber your spot.

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Old
05-05-2011, 01:57 PM
  #58
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Keep both, the cap space is there. Find a way to get rid of Spacek and the Habs can even bring Gill back if they wish. Spacek has 1 year left at almost 4 million, even if we are stuck with him he comes off the books and that money can go on Subban and Price the year after

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05-05-2011, 02:04 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anksun View Post
Assuming they dont have an eye for others options on the ufa market:

Right side: Subban - Wiz - Weber
Left side: Markov - Gorges - Gill
Extra: Spacek

Gill - Spacek - Weber would rotate (anyways there will be injuries)

That D could move the puck very efficiently. However, it's not very big as a whole and the offense isnt exactly huge to start with... i dunno, nice potential but good amount of risk going that way also imo.
This is what I am thinking too.

I don't think size is really a big deal when you have two defensive masters like Gorges and Gill. Also, I think Markov and Subban are well above average defensively.

Wiz is more of a question mark but he is solid 5 on 5 and did okay on the PK as well. I don't really see him as a defensive liability like most people do.

Weber is unproven defensively but i love the kid and he will be safe with someone like Gorges or Gill.

As for Spacek, I think he is terrible. It's definitely a waste spending 3.8 mil on a 7th d man, but I think that's what he should be. He can give Gill a rest as well. It would only be for a year. Definitely not the end of the world.

If we give Markov 5 - 5.5 I think that's fair.
Wiz should not get a penny more than 4.5 and really should only get 4. I believe PG will make the right choice. He strikes me as a cap conscious gm.

All in all I think that's a great defensive core. The habs are a fast break team and that D can move the puck and are no slouches in their own end. Also, I have a feeling Weber will surprise us all.

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Old
05-05-2011, 02:12 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by smithsonhab View Post
If we give Markov 5 - 5.5 I think that's fair.
Wiz should not get a penny more than 4.5 and really should only get 4. I believe PG will make the right choice. He strikes me as a cap conscious gm.
"Cap Conscious" to say the least!!

He passed on Dominic Moore for chrissakes, in order to get a Jeff Halpern type player for $500k less.

Ugh!

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05-05-2011, 03:10 PM
  #61
HH
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Sign both.

I have a great feeling that this team can win the division next year and make a run for it. Wisniewski showed he has a lot of heart and if you add him to a defense of Markov, Subban, Gorges, Gill and Spacek/Weber...you will have a beast on the back end.

I am tired of signing one and letting one go. We have a chance to build a championship caliber team this off-season. Time to make it happen.

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Old
05-05-2011, 03:13 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
"Cap Conscious" to say the least!!

He passed on Dominic Moore for chrissakes, in order to get a Jeff Halpern type player for $500k less.

Ugh!
Halpern and Moore are the same "type" player. The numbers prove that this was an excellent move by PG.

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Old
05-05-2011, 03:33 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
I want him back.

Markov-Wiz
Gorges-Subban
Spacek-Weber

Not the toughest, unfortunately, but a lot of puck moving d-man...! Nice mix of young, speed and talent.
Problem with this is that none of those D-Man are around 6' 200 pounds.

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Old
05-05-2011, 03:34 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Sign both.

I have a great feeling that this team can win the division next year and make a run for it. Wisniewski showed he has a lot of heart and if you add him to a defense of Markov, Subban, Gorges, Gill and Spacek/Weber...you will have a beast on the back end.

I am tired of signing one and letting one go. We have a chance to build a championship caliber team this off-season. Time to make it happen.
Exactly.

Re-signing Wisniewski is key. Make is happen PG.

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Old
05-05-2011, 03:34 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by The Right Price View Post
The problem is not to sign Wiz for next season. With Hammer coming off the books now we could easily offer Wiz 4.5 M for a one year deal.

The problem is that we have alot of contracts we need to renew in the coming off seasons that'll require a lot of free cap space. Examples: Subban, Price, Eller. And Wiz is certainly looking for a more long termish contract, something we can't offer him considering the circumstances.

Markov is also a more safe bet as long as he's healthy and has been on this team for over a decade.

Why Gainey signed Spacek to one year longer than Hammer or Gill was bad cap management.
I'm expecting they will trade Gomez for the 2012-13 season to open cap space. The cheaper teams will use his contract to reach the cap minimum.

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Old
05-05-2011, 03:49 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattKOTW View Post
Wiz or Markov? Nice knowing you Wiz, get the f out. I'll gladly give Weber your spot.
lol tell us how you really feel.

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Old
05-05-2011, 03:50 PM
  #67
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If it was that cut and dry that they were re-signing him they would have done it already. The fact taht they have not yet extended him means that there is a very real possibility he is a UFA on July 1st. The next month will also have a big say in that...
Like how Pleks wasn't signed up until a few days before July 1rst. That's how PG rolls . He waits till the last minute.

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05-05-2011, 03:50 PM
  #68
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If he wants to stay here, he'll take 4M$, and we can keep both.

If he wants a payday, he'll be looking for 5M$+, and we can't justify fitting him in at that price tag

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Old
05-05-2011, 03:54 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
A couple of things:
1) Markov is a safer bet as long as he's healthy... doesn't seem contradictory to you? I mean health/durability risks can't be overly safe to "bet on".

2) Eller's cap hit is already almost $1.3 mil, he only has one more year to earn more, and still isn't playing much more than 10 mins per game or contributing much on the scoresheet. What kind of raise are you expecting him to get? I'd be surprised, even if he "lights it up" next season, if he even commands anywhere close to the $3.25M that A.Kost got after being a repeat 20+ goal scorer.

In any event, I expect that the simple elimination of Spacek's contract would almost entirely compensate for Price (currently 2.75M cap hit, likely won't more than double regardless of salary structure) and Eller's raises. And like you said, if Hamrlik is gone (I've been defending him, but as an asset I'd rather have Wiz for sure), then there should be more than enough money to cover Wiz AND have a bit extra to bank away for PK(who, in all likelyhood, should be looking something between E.Johnson and J.Johnson money - $2.5M to $3.5M cap hit). I really don't see any potential problems from cap limitations, only limitations with regards to correctly making "tough" decisions in the best interest of the club's future.

Exactly.
I really don't understand why people go in a scare about our cap two years from now. Thinking Price and PK will get raises with cap hits of 5M+ isn't realistic. Same thing for Eller. Even if he scores 80pts, I don't see how he'd get anything more than 3M, and even then, it's a little much.

We don't have to worry about our cap for 12-13. Spacek and Moen alone free up 5.3M. We will be just fine even if we spend up to the cap.

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Old
05-05-2011, 03:55 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
If he wants to stay here, he'll take 4M$, and we can keep both.

If he wants a payday, he'll be looking for 5M$+, and we can't justify fitting him in at that price tag
I would think that he would want to stay in MTL. He has done 3 teams and is learning French. He will be back.

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Old
05-05-2011, 04:07 PM
  #71
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Like how Pleks wasn't signed up until a few days before July 1rst. That's how PG rolls . He waits till the last minute.
Most teams don't wait until a week before July 1st...PG is not the GM in Washington.

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05-05-2011, 04:30 PM
  #72
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Send Gomez packing and keep Wiz and Markov ?

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Old
05-05-2011, 04:32 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
Problem with this is that none of those D-Man are around 6' 200 pounds.
Markov 6'0" 207lbs
Subban 6'0" 206lbs
Spacek 6'0" 210lbs
Wiz 5'11" 208lbs
Gorges 6'1" 200lbs
Weber 5'11" 193lbs


Actually they're all around 6' 200 pounds

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Old
05-05-2011, 04:34 PM
  #74
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Markov will be back.
Wiz is in the same boat as all other ufa dmen.
Can the Habs sign bigger and better? a stud???
Wiz at 5 mil as he might get somewhere else? have a nice day!!!
Wiz has worth but not 5million worth.
Money is one thing but his play is also a question.
Georges does not have the Wiz shot but Georges is better at Dman.
What the Habs need most is to replace both Gill and Hamr.
If Hamr stays and at 3mil OK. Gill has had his time here.
Habs need a two mean son of a bitcccch at defence that can also play and skate.

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Old
05-05-2011, 04:44 PM
  #75
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Most teams don't wait until a week before July 1st...PG is not the GM in Washington.
Toucher. Carry on.

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